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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The 'Group Play vs Solo Play in an MMO' Thread

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  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3211

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/16/11 6:02:27 PM#1081


Originally posted by Lucioon
All i was saying was that don't expect same rewards that those got through group content to be the same as those that does solo content.
When a game is build with Solo, group, raid, pvp, grind in one persistent world, dont' expect you can get all the items playing only one aspect. I am not a PVPer, I do not expect to survive against a High Level PVPer when he comes to kill me or when a dragon killer ( raider) attacks me, i don't expect to survive, but when I do, its just that much sweeter. Its like in your face Raiders and PVPers, you just got face rolled by a non raider or pvper. They probably pressed the wrong spell, waiting on CDs or got a phone call in RL. But still its still that much sweeter. 
As a mainly Solo Player, I don't expect to get any Epic , or Legendary weapons or gear, but when i have time to raid and got the highest dkp to get that epic or legendary gear, thats is just that much sweeter.

Oh, I am with you here. I don't expect to get raid gear or PvP gear soloing. It's when the nice PvE gear drops in a raid that I get cranky :)


Originally posted by Lucioon
Don' t think just becase you won't do raid or group content that you are missing out, you aren't, its content that you told yourself that you don't want to do. But its there when you do so its not locked from you.

Right. The option is always there.


Originally posted by Lucioon
I have been invited to raid with only rare gear on, where the other raiders get together and help everyone in guild get their epic gears to prepare for the next day in raid.  it took a few days but through helping each other out, we become more of a tight family. Thats what guilds are for. Don't expect to be helped without helping others, i have hand outs, and I hand out some too. Its a take and give society. And with that in mind, everyone can get into raids.
Everyone starts at zero. there will always be players that is lower level than you, less geared than you. If you are trying to get into a full relic wearing raid, you are mistaken, you will not get in, like everyone else, you need to start at the beginning its called Raid group 2, 3, 4...etc. IF you try to get into a rank 6 pvp group without any experience in pvp, I am sorry, you will not be invited unless voulched by another player for your skill. You have to prove that you have been where they have been.
If you want more Solo content, then there will players that want more PVP content, then more Group content, then more Raid content. Its because its an MMO that they try to tailor it to multiple player styles. Not just one style.


No disagreement here. I personally have no desire to raid or PvP. The amount of raid/PvP content doesn't matter to me as long as there is sufficient solo content. If there isn't enough for me, I quit playing. Raids are too "busy" (too much going on for me to keep track) and I suck at PvP. lol I have been in guilds and like the fellowship that develops. I have also reached the higher levels on my toons when in a guild. But I would still prefer to immerse myself in the game as a solo player. That way, I set the pace. (I set a really slow pace :))

As far as ease of play between solo and group, let's look at grouping first. The hardest part of grouping is trying to get into a group to begin with (unless you're a healer or tank). The next hardest part is to keep the group together for at least one dungeon. The third hardest part is getting quality players in your group. The good things about grouping are the speed of XP gained, the melding of everyone into a cohesive unit as you work together, and sometimes, better loot drops and an XP bonus for being in a group (depending on the game).

In solo play, the hardest part is trying to figure out how to get past multiple mobs. The next hardest part is having to heal yourself between every (or every other) fight. The third hardest part is trying to get through the group of mobs before they respawn again. The good things about soloing is that you are not using the same 3 or 4 attack powers. You use more of the ones you have, since you have to cover everyone's role who is not there. You get to read the quests, go off on a tangent somewhere else, and not be the blame for a group wipe. lol

I fully support the best raid gear from raiding and the best PvP gear from PvPing. It is when uber PvE gear needs to be raided for.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  AlBQuirky

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/24/05
Posts: 3211

Tomorrow's just a future yesterday...

6/16/11 6:11:13 PM#1082


Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Seriously, if you bought most MMO's as single player games, would you be impressed with the gameplay? It's only the presence of other players that make it all the more interesting. But what are you doing with those players? You're talking to them, watching them run past, allowing them to buy something you made. And that makes it a better game? And yet grouping with the same people doesn't? Why is this? Does seeing a bunch of players move around somehow make it a better experience, despite having nothing whatsoever to do with them in-game?


The other players is why I play MMOs. Other people make the game dynamic. They make the world alive. I can take a walk outside of my house and feel alive with others around me, but I don't HAVE to group with them to interact. I cahn wave, yell "Heya! How ya doin'?" I may pick up a neighbor for a block or two, possibly another neighbor for five blocks. I have no qualms about that (unless I run into this neighbor I really don't like).

I just don't see why people HAVE to group to feel they are interacting with others. I guess that is what I am having trouble grasping. I guess I should ask if you group ALL the time? Do you log off if you can't find a group? If you do solo, does it feel like a desktop solo game? I'm just curious and am trying to see what I am missing.

- Al

Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
- FARGIN_WAR

  Cephus404

Elite Member

Joined: 2/27/08
Posts: 3697

6/16/11 11:25:46 PM#1083
Originally posted by UsualSuspect
Originally posted by madeux

If grouping were actually FUN, you wouldn't have to bribe people to do it.

It is fun, but modern MMO's don't make it fun. They make it a hindrance. Let's put a different twist on it:

You're in a field, you want to take a bucket of water from the bottom of the hill to the top. Do you a) Take the bucket of water to the top of the hill or b) Phone all your friends to come and help you take the bucket of water up to the top of the hill, having to wait for them to arrive and then work out some way of dividing the task between everyone..

Answer: A.

And that, in a nutshell, is a modern MMO. Yes, you can ask your friends to come and join you if you really want, but really it's easier and more time efficient to do it yourself.

The problem is, most of the time, I don't find the grouping fun at all, regardless of the game, mostly because the kind of people you find who are into grouping tend to be... well, people I wouldn't want to hang out with in the first place.  The game stops being fun when you have to hang out with a bunch of retards who can't type or spell and have the IQ of a kumquat.  I'd much rather play solo and be able to pick and choose people I spend time with than be forced into groups because the game allows no other alternative.

Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

6/17/11 9:09:05 AM#1084
Originally posted by AlBQuirky

 


Originally posted by Lucioon
All i was saying was that don't expect same rewards that those got through group content to be the same as those that does solo content.
When a game is build with Solo, group, raid, pvp, grind in one persistent world, dont' expect you can get all the items playing only one aspect. I am not a PVPer, I do not expect to survive against a High Level PVPer when he comes to kill me or when a dragon killer ( raider) attacks me, i don't expect to survive, but when I do, its just that much sweeter. Its like in your face Raiders and PVPers, you just got face rolled by a non raider or pvper. They probably pressed the wrong spell, waiting on CDs or got a phone call in RL. But still its still that much sweeter. 
As a mainly Solo Player, I don't expect to get any Epic , or Legendary weapons or gear, but when i have time to raid and got the highest dkp to get that epic or legendary gear, thats is just that much sweeter.


Oh, I am with you here. I don't expect to get raid gear or PvP gear soloing. It's when the nice PvE gear drops in a raid that I get cranky :)
Atleast you understand that not all gear should be equal in all situations. But thats where most of the problems comes from. I went through SWTOR's forums and found almost 20% of the posts were arguments between SOLO players wanted all gears to be available to them without them doing any PVPing, Raiding, or Grinding. And that was mainly from SOLO players. They feel that because they don't PVP or Raid they are secondary citizens and also because they don' t want to play with other players , or because they feel other players are stupid, idiotic or moving too fast, have too much time that therefore they should be gifted with the opportunity to reach elitism by themselves, Arguments like I can say hi to anyone i want, but i just like to solo and get Relics and I want all bosses scale down to my levels so i can kill him solo without help. If I need help in a MMO to kill a boss then its a bad Design.  But really, how can that even be an Argument, Its an MMO , If you need help, ask for it, send a server wide call for other players to help. Whats so hard about that..
This is what scared me whenever an argument between grouping and soloing comes up, not that I am against solo, just the thought of those that Wants SOLO to be the main focus in an MMO.
 

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3564

6/17/11 4:33:10 PM#1085
Originally posted by Lucioon
 
This is what scared me whenever an argument between grouping and soloing comes up, not that I am against solo, just the thought of those that Wants SOLO to be the main focus in an MMO.
 

A game focus doesn't usually change and if there is rapid departure there normally is a good reasons why.

I don't have a problem with 'soloers' getting equivalent loot as long as the relative time/effort required are the same.

If it takes me and 9 other people 4 hours to get 10 pieces of 'epix' that's one piece of gear per player. If a soloer want to sit there and grind 40 (10 x 4) hours for 1 piece of gear knock yourself out. 

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  UsualSuspect

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1219

6/17/11 6:14:06 PM#1086
Originally posted by Cephus404

The problem is, most of the time, I don't find the grouping fun at all, regardless of the game, mostly because the kind of people you find who are into grouping tend to be... well, people I wouldn't want to hang out with in the first place.  The game stops being fun when you have to hang out with a bunch of retards who can't type or spell and have the IQ of a kumquat.  I'd much rather play solo and be able to pick and choose people I spend time with than be forced into groups because the game allows no other alternative.

Soloers are dicks who have no social ability and prefer to do everything alone because it makes them feel superior and gives them a much needed ego boost, due to their rather weak social lives. As in, they don't have one because they don't know how to interact with other people.

Is this a true statement? Does this cover every soloer in game? No, you say? Well, why tar everyone into grouping with the same brush? Some people who group are dicks, just like some people who solo are dicks, and neither of us want to hang out with them. But you know what? In a game with forced grouping, the dicks are soon removed from the gene pool as they end up being unable to get any groups.

You don't think that's true? I started EverQuest before it had a single expansion, I know for a fact it's true. Some people became so alienated that they eventually left and went to another server. A game that promotes grouping and community becomes a good place to be.

Let's say you were in post-apocalyptic earth and were in a small community of survivors, and one of those survivors was a useless dick who pissed off everyone? Would he be in your community for long? Same priniciple. When people need each other they either fall into line or are rejected.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1998

6/17/11 7:30:19 PM#1087

Haven't posted in this thread in a long while, but it seems to be the same old same old.  The anti-socials vs the hyper-socials in a blame war to the death.

 

So here is my bad MMO analogy for the year to explain why I'm fed up with being social in MMOs and maybe fed up with MMOs in general:

 

For years I ate at the same restraunt several times each week. The service was fine, the menu was satisfying, and the ambiance was fantastic. All that, and the price was right, too. Of course, it was my first restraunt, and the only one I ever ate at during those years, so maybe some of my satisfaction came from not knowing any better.


 

At any rate, a few years ago I decided it was time to find a new restraunt. The menu didn't change much anymore, and the clientele had changed a lot. For the worse. All the people I used to see every week were gone, and some of the customers who replaced them were an unsavory, stupid lot. A disconcerting percentage of them seemed to come into the restraunt, not to eat, but to spit in other people's food, tell obnoxious jokes at the top of their lungs, and undercut the restraunt by selling the restraunt's own food, mostly stolen from other customers' plates. Sometimes they would even try to get me to pay them to eat my dinner for me, assuring me that what I really came in for was the dessert!


 

Some restraunts kicked the spitters out, and some called it a house special, claiming customer spit adds seasoning. Other restraunts made it reasonably easy to deflect the incoming spittle and prevent at least some of the food theft. Their only solution to the noisy joke tellers was to suggest that customers dine with friends and ignore the people at the other tables. And most restraunt owners claimed to loathe the illicit salespeople, but for some reason were completely incompetent when it came to removing and trespassing them.


 

I wanted to find another restaraunt that I enjoyed as much as I enjoyed my first one. I would have been happy to stay with my new restaraunt for many years. But everywhere I went, all over town, I saw the same people who had infested my first restraunt. No matter how good the food was, it was hard to enjoy the experience, what with having to guard my plate from spitters, ignore the (usually bad, sometimes racist, always repetitive) jokes, and constantly dodge illicit salespeople. Even though I usually dined alone, I used to be open to sharing a table with one or more strangers. But now whenever anyone walks up to me, I find myself tensing up and automatically assuming they're going to spit in or steal my food, tell me a stupid joke, or try to sell me something.


 

I've had a few pleasant dining experiences over the years since I stopped going to my first restraunt, but the other customers make it difficult to judge the quality of the food and service sometimes, and even though I'm a creature of habit, I can't seem to stay with one for very long anymore. Some say restraunt food just isn't as good as it used to be, and some say maybe it was never that good, and maybe we're all just tired of eating out, but I think my disatisfaction has more to do with my fellow diners. Perhaps take-out is the answer.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  Gweniviere

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/04
Posts: 30

6/17/11 7:40:34 PM#1088
Originally posted by Madimorga

Haven't posted in this thread in a long while, but it seems to be the same old same old.  The anti-socials vs the hyper-socials in a blame war to the death.

 

So here is my bad MMO analogy for the year to explain why I'm fed up with being social in MMOs and maybe fed up with MMOs in general:

 

For years I ate at the same restraunt several times each week. The service was fine, the menu was satisfying, and the ambiance was fantastic. All that, and the price was right, too. Of course, it was my first restraunt, and the only one I ever ate at during those years, so maybe some of my satisfaction came from not knowing any better.


 

At any rate, a few years ago I decided it was time to find a new restraunt. The menu didn't change much anymore, and the clientele had changed a lot. For the worse. All the people I used to see every week were gone, and some of the customers who replaced them were an unsavory, stupid lot. A disconcerting percentage of them seemed to come into the restraunt, not to eat, but to spit in other people's food, tell obnoxious jokes at the top of their lungs, and undercut the restraunt by selling the restraunt's own food, mostly stolen from other customers' plates. Sometimes they would even try to get me to pay them to eat my dinner for me, assuring me that what I really came in for was the dessert!


 

Some restraunts kicked the spitters out, and some called it a house special, claiming customer spit adds seasoning. Other restraunts made it reasonably easy to deflect the incoming spittle and prevent at least some of the food theft. Their only solution to the noisy joke tellers was to suggest that customers dine with friends and ignore the people at the other tables. And most restraunt owners claimed to loathe the illicit salespeople, but for some reason were completely incompetent when it came to removing and trespassing them.


 

I wanted to find another restaraunt that I enjoyed as much as I enjoyed my first one. I would have been happy to stay with my new restaraunt for many years. But everywhere I went, all over town, I saw the same people who had infested my first restraunt. No matter how good the food was, it was hard to enjoy the experience, what with having to guard my plate from spitters, ignore the (usually bad, sometimes racist, always repetitive) jokes, and constantly dodge illicit salespeople. Even though I usually dined alone, I used to be open to sharing a table with one or more strangers. But now whenever anyone walks up to me, I find myself tensing up and automatically assuming they're going to spit in or steal my food, tell me a stupid joke, or try to sell me something.


 

I've had a few pleasant dining experiences over the years since I stopped going to my first restraunt, but the other customers make it difficult to judge the quality of the food and service sometimes, and even though I'm a creature of habit, I can't seem to stay with one for very long anymore. Some say restraunt food just isn't as good as it used to be, and some say maybe it was never that good, and maybe we're all just tired of eating out, but I think my disatisfaction has more to do with my fellow diners. Perhaps take-out is the answer.

OMG! I've been to that restaraunt! Dang spitters!

UO-EQ-L2-EQ2-VG-WoW-DDO-GW-AoC-LoTR-WAR-Aion
Currently playing: Rift
Waiting for: EQN

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2645

6/17/11 11:17:20 PM#1089
Originally posted by jpnz
Originally posted by Lucioon
 
This is what scared me whenever an argument between grouping and soloing comes up, not that I am against solo, just the thought of those that Wants SOLO to be the main focus in an MMO.
 

A game focus doesn't usually change and if there is rapid departure there normally is a good reasons why.

I don't have a problem with 'soloers' getting equivalent loot as long as the relative time/effort required are the same.

If it takes me and 9 other people 4 hours to get 10 pieces of 'epix' that's one piece of gear per player. If a soloer want to sit there and grind 40 (10 x 4) hours for 1 piece of gear knock yourself out. 

 Ummm... thats a bit ass backwards.

If a group of 10 people is doing something, lets just say running a specific dungeon, to get some gear. The workload is split between 10 people. All things being equal, you run into a group of 10 enemies, each player kills 1 enemy.

On the other hand a soloer running that same dungeon and killing that same group of 10 enemies is doing the same amount of work that it just took 10 people to do... but its just 1 person. Theyre actually doing 10x the work of that group.

Now thats if all roles/classes are the same. But consider a typical group setup, where youve got tanks, healers, dps, and maybe CC. Youve got all that support and all those different roles helping make things easier for everyone by buffing, healing, debuffing, taunting, etc.

A soloer has nobody but himself. He doesnt have a healer standing around keeping him up, or someone constantly throwing shields/barriers up, or stunning/slowing enemies, while they kill. They have to either excel a hell of a lot more at 1 role than any of those people in the group in order to make it through, or be capable of performing various roles with just 1 person. Because of this, they should be getting AT LEAST equal rewards, if not better, for being able to achieve what it takes 10 people to do.

Basically, by your logic, you would pay a team of 10 people to build you a house $100000. But if 1 guy was able to build you that same house, you would only want to pay him $10000. Does that seem fair, when he just busted his ass doing the work of 10 people to get the same result?

It took your group 4 hours to get 10 pieces of gear (1 per person). That sooler who just spent 4 hours doing the same thing should have just gotten himself 10 pieces of gear (if he managed to do it at the same speed). Certainly not 1/10 of the rward for 10x the time. Does 1/100th of the reward for doing 10x the work sound even remotely fair to you?

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1998

6/18/11 12:13:02 AM#1090
Originally posted by Gweniviere
Originally posted by Madimorga
<snip>

OMG! I've been to that restaraunt! Dang spitters!

 

 

Hm, and dang my spell checker, too.  It's bad enough that I can never remember how to spell 'restraunt' (especially given how many I've worked in!) but it's really bad when Open Office can't seem to spell it, either!

 

Oh well. 

 

Down with the spitters!

 

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

  UsualSuspect

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/01/04
Posts: 1219

6/18/11 7:31:26 AM#1091
Originally posted by kaiser3282

 Ummm... thats a bit ass backwards.

If a group of 10 people is doing something, lets just say running a specific dungeon, to get some gear. The workload is split between 10 people. All things being equal, you run into a group of 10 enemies, each player kills 1 enemy.

On the other hand a soloer running that same dungeon and killing that same group of 10 enemies is doing the same amount of work that it just took 10 people to do... but its just 1 person. Theyre actually doing 10x the work of that group.

Now thats if all roles/classes are the same. But consider a typical group setup, where youve got tanks, healers, dps, and maybe CC. Youve got all that support and all those different roles helping make things easier for everyone by buffing, healing, debuffing, taunting, etc.

A soloer has nobody but himself. He doesnt have a healer standing around keeping him up, or someone constantly throwing shields/barriers up, or stunning/slowing enemies, while they kill. They have to either excel a hell of a lot more at 1 role than any of those people in the group in order to make it through, or be capable of performing various roles with just 1 person. Because of this, they should be getting AT LEAST equal rewards, if not better, for being able to achieve what it takes 10 people to do.

Basically, by your logic, you would pay a team of 10 people to build you a house $100000. But if 1 guy was able to build you that same house, you would only want to pay him $10000. Does that seem fair, when he just busted his ass doing the work of 10 people to get the same result?

It took your group 4 hours to get 10 pieces of gear (1 per person). That sooler who just spent 4 hours doing the same thing should have just gotten himself 10 pieces of gear (if he managed to do it at the same speed). Certainly not 1/10 of the rward for 10x the time. Does 1/100th of the reward for doing 10x the work sound even remotely fair to you?

If a soloer can get through content designed for 10 people, then he's more than welcome to the 10 items. Good luck doing it though.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

6/18/11 8:30:30 AM#1092

If a soloer can get through content designed for 10 people, then he's more than welcome to the 10 items. Good luck doing it though.

IF a soloer can get through content designed for 10 people, then the design for that dungeon is flawed. But lets say that the dungeon was not lowered in difficulties then yes, the same reward should be given to the soloer if he is that powerful to defeat a dungeon that was designed with 10 people in mind.
And he would be rewarded with all 10 items.

Back to the original analogy of the real life situation about building the house, yes,  that $10,000 would be the same amount you pay the 1 person vs 10 person. But the benefit is the 1 person pockets the full $10,000 vs the 10 people that each only pockets $1,000 depending on if they did an even split, but if for the 10 person team, the leader gets $2000 then the other 9 people only gets $888.89. And they have to build 10 houses to get paid the same amount as the 1 person .

But if you divide the time required to build the house, that 1 person takes 10x or maybe 20x the time to build that house, all the money i spent out of the house waiting for the house to build will be taken out of his pay. therefore he will be left with only $1000 maybe less. So You would never want to hire a 1 person team to build your house.

Now who was rewarded the most benefits, because not all 10 person in that team would be able to run 10 dungeons, some can only run 1 , some 2, some can only stay for 3. All that time spent looking for replacements, and the soloer just has to worry about himself.

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7197

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

6/18/11 8:38:43 AM#1093

This whole deabte should be redundent in 2011.

 

These games should all have 100% scalable content (and by that I mean all mobs) by now, in which the mob detects how many are in your group and adjusts it strength accordingly (with enhanced XPor drop buffs that themselves upscale the more people you join with to play- encouraging, not enforcing, grouping is good). This would allow everyone to play the way they want and experience the whole game according to their needs.

We should be so frikin past segregating content based on the number of people in a group (even if that 'group' is one).

 

The whole solo vs group vs raid debate was old 10 years ago, the devs need to solve it already.

  madeux

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/02/08
Posts: 1868

I have little patience for humans...

6/18/11 8:42:30 AM#1094
Originally posted by vesavius

This whole deabte should be redundent in 2011.

 

These games should all have 100% scalable content (and by that I mean all mobs) by now, in which the mob detects how many are in your group and adjusts it strength accordingly (with enhanced XPor drop buffs that themselves upscale the more people you join with to play- encouraging, not enforcing, grouping is good). This would allow everyone to play the way they want and experience the whole game according to their needs.

We should be so frikin past segregating content based on the number of people in a group (even if that 'group' is one).

 

The whole solo vs group vs raid debate was old 10 years ago, the devs need to solve it already.

The problem is the recurring theme in this thread:  "Groupers" want EXTRA reward in order to to pay others to group with them.  They don't want Soloing to even be possible.  In their minds, solo players should be punished until they come around to their way of thinking and start playing in groups.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

6/18/11 8:51:47 AM#1095

Group play should be based on the fact that 2 players are better than 1, and that's it. 

WOW has perfected forced group-play, are you happy with WOW?

  dageeza

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 580

6/18/11 9:24:57 AM#1096

Many super groupers want only elite content with only elite geared players and only the leetist of rewards they often prefer that solo players even though often superiorly skilled remain poorly geared as the price for enjoying a game at their own leisure while being denied access to much of the content because they didnt follow the socialist agenda...

Many of these leet dudes forgot they either had many friends playing and or had much help to where most solo players actually come alone and find the leets to unwilling to groom them so they take pride in beating their way up with shabby gear and clever skill spamming in otherwise overwhelming situations...

Some solo players tend to believe they should be entitled to the same dungeons and exact same rewards the super groupers are and that they are being charged the same price yet are being punished and treated like 2nd class game citizens because they prefer not to group or arent geared to group with the super groupers or just dont want to deal with the super groupers flaky drone like attitudes...

Most solo players would be content to solo or small group the same dungeons as the super groupers only scaled down and recieve the chance to gain scaled down versions of the same gear for their effort...

Ive been on both ends and between and no current game caters fully to both of these groups yet both are legit game groups offering the same monthly payment to play.. personally i blame game devs for making games that force grouping and then punish the experience gains instead of making a grouping friendly enviroment especially early on that fosters and welcomes grouping by rewarding players instead of often punishing them for their efforts which often leads to frustration and a solo career...

Playing GW2..

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7197

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

6/18/11 9:38:46 AM#1097
Originally posted by madeux
Originally posted by vesavius

This whole deabte should be redundent in 2011.

 

These games should all have 100% scalable content (and by that I mean all mobs) by now, in which the mob detects how many are in your group and adjusts it strength accordingly (with enhanced XPor drop buffs that themselves upscale the more people you join with to play- encouraging, not enforcing, grouping is good). This would allow everyone to play the way they want and experience the whole game according to their needs.

We should be so frikin past segregating content based on the number of people in a group (even if that 'group' is one).

 

The whole solo vs group vs raid debate was old 10 years ago, the devs need to solve it already.

The problem is the recurring theme in this thread:  "Groupers" want EXTRA reward in order to to pay others to group with them.  They don't want Soloing to even be possible.  In their minds, solo players should be punished until they come around to their way of thinking and start playing in groups.

 

Community is built by game design, and community is so important to these games (most soloers will even tell you that in my experience). You just don't throw 2000 solo independant people onto s sever and expect them to form up.

Saying that soloing should not only be possible, but enjoyable and rewarding.

It would be easy to hit both aims with a system like this and, tbh, anything that removes these sub group squanbbles that exist in these games under the current thinking is a good thing.

My personal view is that these games should offer all content for all players, no matter how they like to play.

  Lucioon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 840

6/18/11 9:44:02 AM#1098

I believe the only solution is to go back to the way Final Fantasy XI took on grouping. Not the part which they force everyone to group to achieve content. But the Chain skills that you can achieve when you do group together that you can't do when you are just solo.

I personally find that bonus a plus when grouping and fighting through content.

Instead of only just buffing the Mobs, make grouping fun and exciting, make it worth the trouble. I don't know if anyone plays Chrono Trigger, but the most fun i have is trying out all the combination of attacks.

For example. Two sword fighter can deal an X attack when boosted by an speed spell. One rogue and one mage, one can pour oil another cast fire. Now thats is not enforcing you to group, but rather an bonus when you do.

Of course make it so you can still fight through content solo cause the boss are buffed to solo, but you just won't have the companionship of another spell or sword wielder. You aren't missing content, you just decided that you don't want someone to light your oil magics. The more buff the mob gets the higher quality of the item should be unlocked for possibility of drops. You are rewarded for grouping, but you are not punished for not grouping. The item is still there, you just need to kill more to get it. Besides Exp are divided amount groupers, if you solo you get the full exp. And if they make the exp have bonus when you don't die, solo will always get more exp solo but more dangerous. And groups need to kill more to gain the same exp but with higher possibilities of survival.

( another example would have unique solo and group or pvp buffs on gear and weapons, when you group the buff is for everyone in group, when solo its more toward survival ) This way everyone gets the same thing, but useful in different situations. This way although its against my better judgements, but it would cater to everyone, either you are a soloer, groups, or pvp)

Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.

  Nerf09

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/04
Posts: 3008

6/18/11 9:49:47 AM#1099

Obviously the pro-forced group folks aren't happy with WOW's forced grouping perfection, cause they want more forced grouping.

I wasn't forced to group with anyone in pre-CU SWG, but I did more player cooperation than in any other game, and I'm a lonewolfer.

  Madimorga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/26/10
Posts: 1998

6/18/11 1:35:18 PM#1100
Originally posted by vesavius

This whole deabte should be redundent in 2011.

 

These games should all have 100% scalable content (and by that I mean all mobs) by now, in which the mob detects how many are in your group and adjusts it strength accordingly (with enhanced XPor drop buffs that themselves upscale the more people you join with to play- encouraging, not enforcing, grouping is good). This would allow everyone to play the way they want and experience the whole game according to their needs.

We should be so frikin past segregating content based on the number of people in a group (even if that 'group' is one).

 

The whole solo vs group vs raid debate was old 10 years ago, the devs need to solve it already.

 

I understand what you're saying, but there is also something to be said for letting clever soloers take on mobs way higher level, and then allow them to allocate skill points in such a way that the high level items that drop are usable at much lower levels. 

 

I'm missing AO again.  Damn that game did plenty wrong, but it also did plenty right, too.  Although the current crop of pvp gamers screaming for class and gear balance (while finding it perfectly acceptable to roll in vent  zergs and crush everything in their path for some reason) would have hated AO.  It took time and a lot of patience to twink in AO, and AO twinks were more overpowered than any lowbie WoW BG twink could ever dream of being.

 

Don't get me wrong, my cleverness in AO was very hit or miss, mostly I just died, and lots of times my point allocation schemes led to sheer gimpness, and my shiny new gear was often over-equipped, too.  Mostly I had no spare energy or time for serious twinking, but when I did twink out a character and allocate all my points correctly and figure out how to kill much higher level mobs, it gave me a sense of accomplishment that I will never obtain from grinding same level mobs for same level gear.  I'd love a game that gave that sense of accomplishment back to me.

I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.

~Albert Einstein

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