Originally posted by Frobner

Best article by scott so far. 

Its hard to argue that 2009 wasn't a bad year for MMOs.  What is becoming more and more aparent is that its not about the games or the gamers (if ever it was)  - its just about the buisness and the money.  And that means...you get the buisness and the money any way possible.  Thats on its own is not good for gaming.

I think that MMOs are gonna be hit even harder in 2010 than they were in 2009.  Its not only the resession that is hiting hard atm (Quality bandwith on peak times is expensive ) but also  I feel that both developers and publishers are realising that making a MMO that will be played by millions of ppl - is not as easy as they thought it would be.

But... when it comes down to it...  The reason why most of the 2008-2009 MMOs are not played by millions... is because they were not created for the gamers at all...

Unlike many others - I feel that the resession will do alot of good things for gaming.  Games don't have to be 50GBs and with DX 2000 graphix to be enjoyable.  Its maybe time for many of the developers and the publishers to create QUALITY GAMES - instead of software that is sold as Pre-order and then fixed up a bit to make it playable over the next 2 years.  Its time that we see a game that is DEVELOPED online as free to play with STRONG quality gameplay that is then developed futher for a charge (any form).

And lastly - I really think that the sadest part about 2009 is BLizzard adding item malls into WOW.  Its for me a disgrace to see a company that was build on games for the gamers - go full circle and now start item mall for the BUISNESS - instead of offering it as part of their normal subscription fee. 

Shame on you BLizzard. 

Again - good article Scott.

Blizzard didn't add an item mall. Learn your facts.

I say GOOD!

Cut the fat of the industry. The current crop of talent has shown that they pretty much fail at knowing what we want in an MMORPG. I think the future looks bright, after this culling period is over.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by googajoob7

its pretty simple only a handful mmos are not worth the 15 dollars a month standard sub to the average mmo player where they may be worth 5-10 or the freemium model . its the dogmatic approach on the behalf of a lot of developers which is the problem and the idiots that ll problerby respond to this post saying i m happy to pay 15 dollars a month rather than another subscription model . well all i can say to them of course you are most likly your playing one of the handful of games that are worth it . and not the likes of warhammer , vanguard , everquest 2 , age of conan the list goes on and on . the game that appears to have got it right is dungeons and drgaons online offering both freemium and subscription options . thats the way to go for 95 percent of mmos in my opinion or if your game is older and unable to to attract the numbers of subs in once had . drop the price . if you offer the game at a third less and attract 50 percent more players ( for example)  then your increasing your revenue .

its pretty obvious which way mmos will go because like any market competition will eventually lead to price wars in sub fees . its only the most dogmatic fanbois who does nt have an idea what the real world is like would suggest the current status quo of 15 dollars a month standard subscription fee for all mmos is sustainable or even an attractive prospect .

talk about turkeys voting for christmas

i would rather the option of paying less or not at all unless i got into a game enough to want to buy moduals or expansions and be able to play several mmos a month on the side of one of the games that are worth a 15 dollar fee like eve , warcraft  or lord of the rings .

 

 

Subscription cost is not the problem with the majority of games on the market.  They simply are not worth investing time into.  Gameplay doesn't get better when the price is dropped from $15 to $5. 

Overall I get the basic of what you are trying to say, but it doesn't really factor in the real currency most people value, their play time. 

 

 

total rubbish . i guess thats why t1 is busy in warhammer online now its free and ddo is a revived game . i agree some mmos arnt worth investing time in them but that certainly does nt apply to the vast majority of less popular mmos . i would certainly maintain a sub to the likes of warhammer and age of conan at 5 dollars a month and i dont think i d be alone in that . i quite like elements of both those games as i do other mmos like city of heroes and everquest but not at the price they ask .

you just wait and see , when price drops and freemium models become a reality  how much it ll boost some flagging games . its inevitable now . a couple of years ago i argued that ddo should try some sort of free to play model . i had loads of smart comments from people could nt see the wisdom of changing the buisness model . i was proven right about that and i ll be proven right about this .

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Originally posted by Kyleran

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Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

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Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).

 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 

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Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.

---

 

Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.

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No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

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I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

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Originally posted by Kyleran

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Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

 
 

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Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).

 

 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 
 

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Originally posted by Teala

 

Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.

---

 

Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.

 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

---

 

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

me thinks you mixing up BLIZZARD(makers of WoW) with BIOWARE(makers of SW:ToR-their first entry into the MMO market)

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Originally posted by baltan

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Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero

 

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Originally posted by Kyleran

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Originally posted by Vagrant_Zero
 
 
 

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Originally posted by LumTheMad
 
On the one hand, all the games released *weren't* really bad (EA for example released Dragon Age, which is one of the best CRPGs in recent memory).
 

 
The way you've worded that statement it comes off as EA was the developer of Dragon Age.
It wasn't. Bioware was; who while owned by EA did not undergo ANY layoffs. And that's not even to mention that Dragon Age has been almost 6 years in the making, and of those 6 only 2 were under EA rule. While the EA stench can be felt on Dragon Age's marketing (blood galore), it's move to consoles (DA was explicity going to be PC title ONLY), and even it's DLC distribution, the actual core of the game is entirely EA-taint free. It's pure Baldur's Gate Bioware. Dragon Age is a Bioware game. To call it anything else is disingenuous.
So I can see the point you're making (faking), "Dragon Age sold well but EA still had massive layoffs" but the spin-free edition of what you're trying to say is "Dragon Age sold well and Bioware had no layoffs, not only that but Mythic was essentially folded under the umbrella of Bioware leadership." So in essence Bioware has grown as a company during this recession and thrived.
As you may have realized at this point, the spin-free edition of your point does not favor your argument, it in fact favors your opponent who said Devs who released quality games didn't get hit by the recession (ie, Bioware).
Now, does that mean I personally buy into the argument. Not so much, not that I really care though.
Still, I get annoyed when people fubar the details to try and win an argument.
 
 

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Originally posted by Teala
 
Originally posted by MrcdesOwnr
 
My favorite part of the article was actually the following caption, that you had next to a WoW race change ad/graphic:
When Blizzard just said,
"Oh well, why not, they'll buy ANYTHING."
The irony is, I'm starting to truly believe that this is the mindset of most of these companies today and therefore the real cause for the mess we are in and most likely the culprit behind these layoffs as well.
These companies, ie Funcom and Mythic took us for a bunch of fools. Due to Blizzard's success they had these huge dollar signs in their eyes with overconfident expectations and champagne and caviar dreams. All the while, trying to pass along unfinished products with misleading advertising, with their hands on our wallets and a snickering laugh.
Hopefully 2009 is the year where developers have learned that we are not the fools that some mistook us for and that we will not settle for half-finished garbage products wrapped in a golden bow of lies and deceit.

---

 

Don't count on it. Look at the number of fools that spent money on games like Aion and Champions. Guess what theose same people will be buying games like Mortal Online and Star Trek and later SW:ToR...and nothing will have changed.
 

---

 
The simple fact that you'd actually have the gall to clump Bioware in with the likes of Mythic, Funcom, Cryptic, etc, shows how out of touch with reality your viewpoint is and why it should be summarily dismissed as inane rambling.

---

No doubt your 'enlightened' viewpoint is based on all the successful MMORPG's Bioware has created.
Oh wait....  never mind, they haven't yet.
 

---

 
I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of World of Warcraft trampling your 'enlightened' viewpoint.

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me thinks you mixing up BLIZZARD(makers of WoW) with BIOWARE(makers of SW:ToR-their first entry into the MMO market)

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No. I'm well aware that Blizzard is not Bioware. My point was that the haters came out in full force BEFORE World of Warcraft's launch saying Blizzard may have made a bevy of exceptional games but they had never made an MMO. These people used that as a justification for predicting WoW's doom before the game even launched, or even worse, belittling Blizzard's extensive experience in producing good games.

Needless to say, 5 years and 11.5 Million players later...the doomsayers are sucking dirt and all things considered, only a troglodyte would use the "Bioware's never made an MMO argument" in a post World of Warcraft world.

Besides the simple bottom line is, an MMORPG at its core doesn't stray too far from its RPG roots (these games are mmoRPGs after all). The skill-set in developing the latter will definitely transfer and help into developing the former. If people are so blinded by their seething and irrational hatred they can't make out that simple fact then they are unworthy of me taking the time to fully explain their folly. A simple one line snide remark will do for them.

I hope that clarifies my point for you.

Their wouldnt be layoffs if game companies could actually produce a decent MMO for the masses.  People wont buy crap games anymore and that ultimately impacts who has a job in the gaming industry and who doesnt 2008-2009 sucked for online gaming pretty much. For the first time in many many years i'm gameless and i don't see that changing anytime between now and the release of Guild Wars 2 which if done right will be a overly serious competitor to World of Warcraft a game in a slow decline already.

well in all of this you really should mention a beacon of hope. CCP.

not only are they not firing people, but they are increasing in size. not to mention the country they reside in went bankrupt :)

if you ask me it has to do with the retention rate of eve. sure most people leave the moment they log in, but those that stay, stay for good.

not sure why its so, maybe its cause eve is different, not trying to be like other mmos out there.

they are also still providing two free expansions each year and when they asked the CEO he assured us that eve expansions will always be free.

they are also releasing a free to play fps mmo in 2010...its for consoles though :(

Free to play or Subscriptions? Oh hell, let’s just do both. No one will notice.

And in what may be the most egregious example of holding paying users upside down and shaking them until quarters came out, Champions Online started selling full skill “respecs” for $12.50, after insisting that adding them to the game was a bad idea.

Now, don’t get me wrong - I’m all for game developers making money. I mean, I’m a game developer, and I like money. But treating players -- paying customers -- as an endlessly renewable resource to be mined for candy is not only ethically suspicious, it’s counter-productive. Because in today’s economy the pocketbooks of your customers are as tight as yours are, the last thing they’re going to want to do is shell out $20 for a shiny +12 suit of Extra Special Value Chain Mail, and if you design your game so that +12 Value Chain Mail is necessary, your users will inform you that no, it’s not necessary because your game is not necessary.

That was pretty much the reaction I (and many others had) when Cryptic finally admitted - several months after the existence of their item mall - that CO would use both a subscription and microtransactions.

Bill Roper went on and on and on about how the microtransactions were all fluff, nothing to be worried about, hey microtransactions are fun! etc. etc. And so soon after release they drop in paid full skill respecs in a game with insane power imbalances.

Even after having witnessed all of their other shenanigans, this one gobsmacks me.

Originally posted by karantanija

well in all of this you really should mention a beacon of hope. CCP.

not only are they not firing people, but they are increasing in size. not to mention the country they reside in went bankrupt :)

if you ask me it has to do with the retention rate of eve. sure most people leave the moment they log in, but those that stay, stay for good.

not sure why its so, maybe its cause eve is different, not trying to be like other mmos out there.

I might be able to help you there.

I really enjoyed Eve. It was so much better than I'd ever imagined - but one rather serious game design flaw made me leave after a month.

Theoretically young players are protected in the high security areas.... which is good. Implants and ships are expensive and you're almost guaranteed to lose both if you're killed. Pod death for new players is particularly unpleasant. I didn't enjoy it.

But there's now so much money floating around in the game that the possibly once prohibitive bribe required to convince npc guards in high security regions to ignore your attacking members of a particular guild means that that safety net is paper thin.

Eg. there's a guild specifically set up to help new players in Eve ( Eve University) but because everyone knows they include a lot of new members (i.e. easy pickings) they are almost constantly at war and their members aren't safe anywhere. I was so warned when I made enquiries about joining.

It struck me as incredibly stupid, and stacked on top of the many gaps/flaws in the starting mission arc and associated help files it left me wondering what other horrible flaws might lie in wait. So many new players all asking the exact same questions on the help channel desperately hoping that someone will notice their question amidst the incessant gold spamming and reply...

First impression count and Eve makes a very mixed one.

I played just about every free to play and pay to play game that came out in 2009 and left all of them with disappointment and all but one or 2 required you to use the in game cash shop once you get a decent way into the game. If you don't, well you end up sucking so horribly that you end up killing hundreds or even thousands of enemies that are lower level than you to try to get that last level. Sadly I did not do this or buy from most of their cash shops as some others had done I simply left the game. In 2009 I am forced to say I have lost all faith in MMOs and there are multiple games I will refuse to even buy because of that exact reason. A free trial is almost absolutely required if you make a good game because of this exact reason. Which brings in the problem of bots and people making multiple trial accounts spamming "$20 for 800 gold at <insert site name here>" which also makes your game no longer want to be played. So, the developers limit the accounts and such in an attempt to stop this but what really else can you do. The down side to this is you are also limiting your actual players. In multiple games I would get message like "you are sending messages to frequently" in area chat channels. Online games are pretty much dead to me unless the are peer to peer meaning you play with your friends and thus avoid issues stated above. I am currently wanting to become a game developer and am reading up on 3d game development as I type this message. I have plans to make a game where it will end up no one knows but if perchance it does become successful I will do everything in my power to try to stop things like this from happening to my game.

Well, when the economy goes bad some companies go down and many loses their job. That is tragic but the question is if the genre didn't need some weeding out now, far to many devs have thought "lets just copy another game instead of making a new one, we will still get enough players" and that has turned so many MMOs into new versions of EQ the last few years.

When the economy gets good enough will hopefully the surviving companies  and the upcoming ones learn to make new fun games instead of giving us the same thing over and over.

A good game will sell no matter what the economy is, not as great as when everyone has jobs of course but enough. A game that is just OK will lose a lot of subs or even die at the same time. 

A fine article from Mr Jennings pointing to many of the problems that have led MMOs into a hard place.

Bobby Kotick empitamises the corporate mentality that has become an albatross around the neck of MMO’s. Lets look at what he says:

BK:“employee incentive program so it "really rewards profit and nothing else."

-MMO’s should be about gameplay, nothing else. With sterling gameplay you get great profits, but this concept is beyond the ken of the corporate mind.

BK:"You have studio heads who five years ago didn't know the difference between a balance sheet and a bed sheet who are now arguing allocations in our CFO's office pretty regularly,"

-Studio heads, who should be thinking about nothing other than making the greatest game possible are spending time arguing about finance and its allocation. Mr Kotick is a professional who cannot see beyond his on own disipline, that of running a buisness. So making everyone in the company be concerned with and think about his disipline is to him of extreme importance. The bottom line is that the studio heads will meet the bottom line and produce a poorer game that will not sell well.

The Facebook games are yet anther F2P scam you have to wonder how long will people take to realise that F2P is crap? How many games like this do you have to get your finegrs burnt on before you say “Ouch!”?

Originally posted by Scot

BK:“employee incentive program so it "really rewards profit and nothing else."

-MMO’s should be about gameplay, nothing else. With sterling gameplay you get great profits, but this concept is beyond the ken of the corporate mind.

Indeed, but when players want features that are not about gameplay what do you expect to happen? MOAR RACES, MOAR CUSTOMIZASHUN, MOAR USELESS FEATURZ- no wonder the games fail. Maybe the devs should stop listening to the players for once and just do what they think is right. And woah- we might get a game we like to play for a change.

Quite honestly, the industry is in need of some new blood. It seems the same people cycle from company to company and it is the same trash being put out. Blizzard succeeds because they put out a decent MMO but moreso because no one has risen to be a serious competitor.

Moreso, the MMO industry is plagued with undeserved or earned egos which is detrimental to the elements of game design. As a long time player of one of the more popular MMOs, I've seen changes made that have done nothing to add fun and in fact had the effect of upsetting a lot of the player base. This seems to be a common theme among MMOs, developers put in what they want and to hell with anyone who doesn't like it.

There is a new generation about to enter this space in 2010 and 2011. Assuming they learn from the common mistakes that plague the industry now, my bet is we will be eventually seeing a changing of the guard (and I don't mean someone taking down WoW, I mean the horrendous methods of business in the MMO industry today need to change).

Totally agree.

2009 was the year of "greed".

Those "cosmic" and not "gamebreaking" things that several of the well known game producers are charging money for is making them look like they are desperate to squeese out some extra cash from their games.

Many of us MMORPG  players love the "cosmetic" things and we love to EARN them! by doing stuff in game making you feel you have worked for it. I don't want to buy them. Even if I  HAVE  money.

Microtransactions is the sadest and most annoying thing that have happened to MMORPGs and I fear that many of the people making desicions about this don't see the forrest anylonger, because there are too many trees. Or they are people that don't play games, but office people behind desks with their noses deep into debit and credit books.

Many games lost their integrity in 2009 due to greedy developers.

I  hope many devs. manage to turn around in time and let 2010 be a better year!

I see some inconguencies in the article and the replies to it, mostly in the assumptions that the layoffs in 2009 had everything to do with the games released in 2009, are we forgetting just how long MMO's take to develop?

The "recession" itself is not directly to blame, no. However, the real culprit lies with the economics of MMO's & "future projects" which will have either been canned or drastically hemmed in due to the difficulties in finding adequate funding for the ambitions.

I'd wager that the impact of all the layoffs in 2009 will not mean that 2010 is a great year for MMO's, or indeed gaming in general, quite the opposite, I expect a worse year in 2010 as a direct result of all the layoffs, cancelled projects, cutbacks & "restructuring".

If you thought 2009 was annus horriblis, expect worse to come, the impact of all these layoffs & the damage to the industry has yet to be really felt, I would be surprised if a recovery in the industry happens before 2011, & the results of fresh investment & building up of MMO development post 2009, will not be seen until early 2012 at the eariest.

Sites like this are going to be scratching in the dirt for news stories for a while yet.

It was  inevitable. Gamers are becoming whinier mono-focused extremists who largely ignore everything but the ego boost from meaningless achievements. They scream about graphics, graphics, graphics, and give short shrift to game play. The demand bizarre changes to games that make no sense within the context of the game itself then /ragequit in anticpation because they know no one can meet their ludicrous demands. Those are just the vocal ones, the majority just disappear without a sound because they're so sure their perfect game is just over the horizon even though no one else on the planet would want to play it. The people who find something of interest in a game just shrug and carry on enduring an incessant barrage of abuse from a society where everything is either perfect (nothing) or so damnably bad as to have no redeeming value (everything). Instead of going after the stable one hundred to one hundred fifth thousand  license to print money subscrition base using a well developed game they chase the million subscriber chimera that is here today and gone in thirty days. EVE's example has been in front of them for years but completely ignored. A Developers first public statement should always be "We're not trying to please everyone." but the marketing departments would have kittens. It's OK to tell people No, even potential non-customers.

F2P games shouldn't be so smug either. They'll find they're sitting on a expanding bubble at the elastic limit. Nothing is free forever and the leaches will drag you down in the end.

When an industry is hit particularly hard by a recession it's because it was economically weak to begin with.

Hey gamers, You can't always get what you want but if you try some time you just might find you get what you need.

I think the problem is that game developers saw the success of games like World of Warcraft and just assumed that the money lies within MMORPGS. That's why we're seeing hundreds of new ones each year, and they all dissipate and die because they are trying to replicate the wrong things instead of invent their own game world. 

Then we have games like Darkfall, Fallen Earth, the somewhat indie stuff with lower production values. They come out and recieve no critical acclaim, no praise and get small subscription bases. The fact is these kind of games are actually on the RIGHT track and because they do somewhat poorly, their style of game will just dissapear in favor of what the ego-based 12 year olds want to play, thus we get F2P with item shop games that are subpar (Or P2P games with item shop, yuck) and have no aspects of sandbox or freedom.

Oh well though, every industry eventually becomes greedy and gets ruined. Music, console gaming, everything.

Wow another bitch and moan about item shops.