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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Are you sure the game is a grind or maybe you are the grind?

14 posts found
  Rikimaru_X

Guru

Joined: 6/06/04
Posts: 11957

Facts about Riki: I'm a ninja & one of the sexiest guys on this damn site.

 
OP  11/30/09 4:56:10 PM#1

So I play Aion and I have been playing ever since China's one went in open beta. I will get back to that though, but let me speed things up. I'm now starting to think that many MMO's now becomes a grind only when a person makes it that way. There are tons of things to do to occupy time and get exp in Aion. I already know about 2-3 ppl in AION that rushed to get to level 50, some passing up fun opportunities to go PVP and group questing in our community. Well they want to see endgame, yet when I think about end game, end game is nothing without a community of people at the end. Now I'm not saying there is nothing to do at end game in Aion, but I don't go by word of mouth. A lot of gamers do and I have to experience something myself in order to get a true opinion for myself.

So I've had one guy grind out hard going to 50. He didn't gather, didn't craft, rarely participated in PVP, raids, Abyss, or with his own community. All parcrastanation. Now they get to 50 and expect to see light at the end of the tunnel when the end of the tunnel is PVP focused with PVE things to do too. So at that lvl your gathering should be maxed out or close to it. The gathering is at 0, so you can't even pick an apple from a tree in the first starting area and it is VERY TEDIOUS to get that up. To see some lvl 50 around in the lvl 10 areas gathering stuff that would result in about lvl 13-18 stuff is pretty funny. Crafting takes money and/or items and that takes up time too. That would be a bit more easier if you got money, but stil gotta be passed expert to make things for yourself and make profit.

So now they get sad and they get bored and they complain when everbody is about lvl 46-48 having fun. The community is having fun. The only few I see that is actually 50 that I know is forigen and do their own thing anyway. Then your 50, too high to do most things within the community and then ya still don't wanna strive in PVP, what's the use?

So sometimes I think people put themselves in these positions, because I only really grinded 2 levels and I've been having fun. This is just my experience in Aion of what I've seen with people complaining about a grind when they are not actually having fun, they pass up on community things and focus on getting somewhere as it's a job, and if that happens the job will get boring of course. Then again I don't speak for all MMO's but I'm sure many of you see where I'm going with this.

-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos

  User Deleted
11/30/09 5:06:23 PM#2

It's only a grind when it becomes boring and why play a boring game?

  zantax

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 254

11/30/09 5:08:06 PM#3

Well I have being playing AION Hardcore since release, I am not Level 11 on my first and only character, and the grind is crazy horrible...LOL.  Just kidding, I am level 11 only and I have being playing since release, I don't have the time to play hard core, I play an hour here or there when the mood suits me.  So far in the game I have found the quests to be quite blah, nothing that jumps out and makes me want to do the next quest.  There is a TON of lore in this game none of which matters if you don't have quests worth doing that show you the lore in an interesting way.

 

IS Aion a grind, yes it is, is every other game a grind, YES they are and that include the supposed holy grail EVE.  The skills are a grind in that game and so is everything else because that is all you can do.  Again great lore but the missions are so 2 dimensional that it doesn't draw you in.  I mean seriously how many times can the same princess get captured?

Now is this a bad thing in any game, no it again just depends on how much time and effort is put into make the quests interesting and worth while.

  User Deleted
11/30/09 5:12:15 PM#4

There is content at every level in a themepark  MMO, but people would rather beeline for max level to get into endhgame content than have fun with the content on the way to max level.

People are the grind, not the game itself.

  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

11/30/09 5:16:16 PM#5

the problem with the grind, is the endgame content tends to be more fun for most people

take AION for instance, I thought the game was "decent" , I enjoy PVP, not PVE ... so I need to be at max level to compete

it isn't quick to get max level, so its grindy.. its all the same crap over and over again, same mobs with new skins..etc..etc..

a skill based grind tends to have similar situations, though usually you can compete without the huge disadvantage as lets say a lvl 25 in the abyss vs a lvl 50

;)

  Simiel

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/09
Posts: 157

11/30/09 5:25:36 PM#6

the game is a grind, case closed.

  User Deleted
11/30/09 5:30:52 PM#7

I completely agree with you.  I'm currently lvl 40 Templar in Aion.  I'm part of a legion who's highest player is 44, but everyone else is 35-40.

We absolutely love Aion because all of us craft, gather, pvp, rift, etc.  There isn't a single person in our legion that grinds to 50.  Majority of us are older gamers with families and children.  I, myself, have a year and a half old son.  We don't have time to play 8 hours a day, nor do we want to.   We log on at night, most of us being west coast, play for a few hours and log off.

For the past week we've been doing MM and Morheim Campaigns.  We formed three separate groups for MM and farmed the place while also finishing all the quests/campaigs. 

When we craft or do work orders, we share the recipes with each other when getting duplicates.  We share the hairs we get from MM, we take over arifacts, etc.  We do all the little things in the game that make it worthwhile.

The idea that it's all about the "END GAME" is something that came from WoW.  WoW's content was primarily after you reached your final level.  Games like FFXI were not like that. It was the journey andnot the destination.  Aion is like that as well.

 

Guess what, if you don't enjoy gathering or crafting at 25, you're not going to love it at 50.  If you don't like taking lower level artifacts and fortresses, you won't like it at 50.  If you dont' enjoy rifting as a lvl 25, you won't enjoy it later.

 

Some people need to understand that Aion is the road traveled.  THERE IS NO FINISH LINE.

  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

11/30/09 5:36:10 PM#8
Originally posted by Hrayr2148

The idea that it's all about the "END GAME" is something that came from WoW.  WoW's content was primarily after you reached your final level.  Games like FFXI were not like that. It was the journey andnot the destination.  Aion is like that as well.

 

Guess what, if you don't enjoy gathering or crafting at 25, you're not going to love it at 50.  If you don't like taking lower level artifacts and fortresses, you won't like it at 50.  If you dont' enjoy rifting as a lvl 25, you won't enjoy it later.

 

Some people need to understand that Aion is the road traveled.  THERE IS NO FINISH LINE.

 

First off, it didn't come from WOW .. so you can scratch that right off your list of reasons.

2nd if your rifting at 25, and up against higher levels, its not much fun.. so your point there is not very well made either.. I don't feel like being a lvl 25 vs someone 10 levels higher or even 5 for that matter.

I'm not sure if they fixed the crashing @ fortresses and artifacts, it was bad before I quit... not gonna be fun at any level.

I don't like to zerg, so I wouldn't enjoy it even if it were... though I could be able to venture off and stand a chance to fight higher levels in random areas if I were level 50, right? I have more options, and a better chance at a fair fight on my end, correct? RIGHT

So there is a finish line, and what you enjoy doesn't mean others do.. and for a good amount of people the "endgame" is what is enjoyed

  User Deleted
11/30/09 5:50:24 PM#9
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

So there is a finish line, and what you enjoy doesn't mean others do.. and for a good amount of people the "endgame" is what is enjoyed

 

That's a YOU problem.  That's not an AION problem.   There is a fundamental difference between you not liking what Aion has to offer vs. there's something wrong with Aion.

For example, people characterize Aion as a grind.  I am lvl 40 and my quest log is full.  I have gained approximatly 15% of my total xp from gathering and crafting (which I enjoy).  I did Fire Temple 7 times, T. Cavarns twice, and T. Camp twice.  I've fun MM at leeast six times, only because I'm helping legion mates get all their quests and campaigns done.  

The amount of time it takes a person to get to 50 is approximately 300 hours.  That is how long it took to get to 60 in Vanilla WoW.

Though, you're absolutely right about the fortress raid crashes.  Shift F12 is a very good temporary fix until there's a permanent fix.

The main issue in this thread is whether Aion is a "grind fest."  If all you do is "grind" to get to lvl 50, then yes it is.  It's not Aion's fault that you could get to 60 in Vanilla by questing alone.  I bet the developers envisioned players to take advantage of all that Aion has to offer.  That is why in Aion you get xp for crafting and gathering, in WoW you do not.  In Aion you get xp for pvping, in WoW you do not.

People characterize Aion as a grind because in wow all they did was quest.  So they came to Aion thinking if you quested, that's all you need to get to 50.  So when that's all they did in Aion, they were in for a rude awakening.  Had they done what the OP is doing or me and my guildmates are doing, then Aion would not be characterized as a grind.

  Vulnero87

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/27/09
Posts: 183

Kill or be killed.

11/30/09 6:00:32 PM#10
Originally posted by Hrayr2148
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

So there is a finish line, and what you enjoy doesn't mean others do.. and for a good amount of people the "endgame" is what is enjoyed

 

That's a YOU problem.  That's not an AION problem.   There is a fundamental difference between you not liking what Aion has to offer vs. there's something wrong with Aion.

For example, people characterize Aion as a grind.  I am lvl 40 and my quest log is full.  I have gained approximatly 15% of my total xp from gathering and crafting (which I enjoy).  I did Fire Temple 7 times, T. Cavarns twice, and T. Camp twice.  I've fun MM at leeast six times, only because I'm helping legion mates get all their quests and campaigns done.  

The amount of time it takes a person to get to 50 is approximately 300 hours.  That is how long it took to get to 60 in Vanilla WoW.

Though, you're absolutely right about the fortress raid crashes.  Shift F12 is a very good temporary fix until there's a permanent fix.

The main issue in this thread is whether Aion is a "grind fest."  If all you do is "grind" to get to lvl 50, then yes it is.  It's not Aion's fault that you could get to 60 in Vanilla by questing alone.  I bet the developers envisioned players to take advantage of all that Aion has to offer.  That is why in Aion you get xp for crafting and gathering, in WoW you do not.  In Aion you get xp for pvping, in WoW you do not.

People characterize Aion as a grind because in wow all they did was quest.  So they came to Aion thinking if you quested, that's all you need to get to 50.  So when that's all they did in Aion, they were in for a rude awakening.  Had they done what the OP is doing or me and my guildmates are doing, then Aion would not be characterized as a grind.

WOW!!!  THANK YOU!!!  Someone actually realizes what mmo's are supposed to be.  Not just quest all the way to endgame and hope it's some great godlike thing. 

FYI - I'm not being sarcastic.

Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!

  metalhead980

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 2699

11/30/09 6:09:51 PM#11

Ehhh I don't ever listen when someone calls a game a grind. See a grind much like the subject of whats "fun" is totally subjective.

Depending on the type of player you are you could consider Aion totally full of wonderful content and zero grind since everything to that person was a joy to experience. 

Then you have people like me that get sick when I see a stack of quests in my log.

I get this terrible feeling that i've done it all before and I would rather kill myself with my own keyboard than repeat the same shitty leveling process for the hundredth time.

Aion maybe wonderful to you and you could have hundreds of quests to do since you ran each dungeon way too many times but for me It was a worthless experience.

 

Edit: Oh btw I just want you to know that your quest log situation is very rare in this game. to do what you did you basically need to run dungeons like their your reason for playing.   A few of my buddies are quest stackers and they only run shit like dungeons at most once. these players would have nothing to do for certain levels. So to them Aion would be a grind.

 

 

 

PLaying: EvE, Ryzom

Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum

  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

11/30/09 6:31:16 PM#12
Originally posted by Hrayr2148
Originally posted by Vinterkrig

So there is a finish line, and what you enjoy doesn't mean others do.. and for a good amount of people the "endgame" is what is enjoyed

 

That's a YOU problem.  That's not an AION problem.   There is a fundamental difference between you not liking what Aion has to offer vs. there's something wrong with Aion.

For example, people characterize Aion as a grind.  I am lvl 40 and my quest log is full.  I have gained approximatly 15% of my total xp from gathering and crafting (which I enjoy).  I did Fire Temple 7 times, T. Cavarns twice, and T. Camp twice.  I've fun MM at leeast six times, only because I'm helping legion mates get all their quests and campaigns done.  

The amount of time it takes a person to get to 50 is approximately 300 hours.  That is how long it took to get to 60 in Vanilla WoW.

Though, you're absolutely right about the fortress raid crashes.  Shift F12 is a very good temporary fix until there's a permanent fix.

The main issue in this thread is whether Aion is a "grind fest."  If all you do is "grind" to get to lvl 50, then yes it is.  It's not Aion's fault that you could get to 60 in Vanilla by questing alone.  I bet the developers envisioned players to take advantage of all that Aion has to offer.  That is why in Aion you get xp for crafting and gathering, in WoW you do not.  In Aion you get xp for pvping, in WoW you do not.

People characterize Aion as a grind because in wow all they did was quest.  So they came to Aion thinking if you quested, that's all you need to get to 50.  So when that's all they did in Aion, they were in for a rude awakening.  Had they done what the OP is doing or me and my guildmates are doing, then Aion would not be characterized as a grind.

 

No its an Aion problem for mushing all the levels together in one zone and making a pvp disadvantage on level rather then skill.

You talk about a lot of approximates in your post. 15% ? 300 hours ?

I don't come from WoW, so you can stop using WOW to make your points I played the game for the 3 weeks, got to about 55 and never looked back. (obviously much more time when I was younger to play a lot of hours, but still prob played more like 100-120 hours)

As far as the other things in AION, I did them.. I crafted and gathered .. they are extremely basic systems, and were not much fun (though I will say the crafting is better then most games)

I played a character with my wife in aion, and we were constantly running out of quests, I played a solo character that had plenty...  all the quests were pretty much the same (though this is a prob in all games) and the mobs, were re-named and re-skinned in most places that I saw... cheap

the game is a grind, this is all i'm saying .. its a huge grind

i did not say the game was god awful.. though if some fixes were to be made I'd def check it out again

rifts are great, they need to be open all the time or far more often, and teleport you/group to random spots.. they could use level / zone specific rifts that'd open up some awesome open land pvp (i'd comeback in a heartbeat if they did this)

open field pvp is the best

the cluster fuck abyss sucks, not because of flying, but because its a cluster fuck ... zerging is nothing but button mashing no skill bullshit, you get in range 20 people target you and your dead before the lag clears up

there is more, but meh you are gonna just reply on some wow bullshit again anyways

  User Deleted
11/30/09 6:35:36 PM#13

I'm not trolling or flaming... but... you said you played... what is your highest level and at what lvl did you start running out of quests?

 

The only thing I can think of is that you didn't find the campsites per zone that offered all the quests.   Also, maybe because you likely duo'ed with your wife, you effectively cut your xp in half.  If, assuming of course, that you did the same quests together, but not in the same group... you would not have "run out of" quests.

 

PS - Here's my quest log at 39 (last week).

 

  Vinterkrig

Novice Member

Joined: 1/22/07
Posts: 1706

11/30/09 7:02:06 PM#14
Originally posted by Hrayr2148

I'm not trolling or flaming... but... you said you played... what is your highest level and at what lvl did you start running out of quests?

 

The only thing I can think of is that you didn't find the campsites per zone that offered all the quests.   Also, maybe because you likely duo'ed with your wife, you effectively cut your xp in half.  If, assuming of course, that you did the same quests together, but not in the same group... you would not have "run out of" quests.

 

PS - Here's my quest log at 39 (last week).

 

 

ya quests were not an issue solo, they were in a duo group.

 

i had a 32 chanter i think it was , this is what i played with the wife, we constantly ran out of quests

 

i had a 27 ranger or w.e the archer class was called and had a full book of quests

 

grouping in most cases in that game, cut your xp dramatically which i also thing is a big fault (grouping should create a bonus imo)