It's good to see the industry try new things, however new things aren't necessarily as fun as the old.

I made a suggestion not too long ago where:

• all mobs in an MMORPG "call for help", which causes nearby enemies to assist and dramatically increases fight difficulty - in certain areas it's impossible to fight effectively without some way of dealing with the calls.
• a mage variant exists: Silencers.  They use magic to silence foes, preventing calls for help.

This creates a "need" to deal with a specific mechanic which makes fights harder.  And each class in the game would vary in how they could deal with that new need, with a few classes being better at it than others.  This is exactly like taking damage creates a need for healing, and High Mob DPS creates a need for tanking.

The problem is it's completely arbitrary.  Heavily armored knights were sent to the frontlines in real life.  Healers were used in real life too (albeit not during battle while under attack.)  But Silencer mages are completely fabricated.  This will seriously hamper the mechanic's fun factor for many players.

Arbitrary mechanics won't inherently fail, but they have to overcome hurdles of accessibility and believability for players to accept them.  Accessibility refers to players intuitively knowing that the guy encased in 100lbs of steel is probably the one you want to put on the frontlines, but a game would have to specifically teach players that Silencers are important because they don't exist in real life.  Believability refers to the rejection (or distaste) of game mechanics because they're perceived completely fabricated or imaginary - it impacts all players to varying degrees (some dislike any magic; some are willing to believe magic if it's explained adequately; some are willing to accept "but it's magic" as explanation for anything.)

Another problem is: is silencing foes as fun as DPSing?  Is it at least as fun (hopefully more) than tanking or healing?  The exact implementation would determine this, but it's the bar you have to reach to attain success.

So the simple version of what I've described above is:

• Sure.  Healers can be removed as long as they're replaced with something at least as fun.

So the simple version of what I've described above is:

• Sure.  Healers can be removed as long as they're replaced with something at least as fun.

Oh, but what if a game was built with no healing mechanic in mind? How would the game end up? Would an additional role/s surface as a result from not having any heals which focus around survival? 

I like the responses this thread has gotten and a majority of the responses seem to perceive healing as a necessary thing either stated or implied. When I was typing this thread up originally, I was thinking also about STO, how they seem to be trying to apply some version of the trinity in their ships even. I was just curious about people's perception of being without the whole trinity. 

I ultimately came up with this thread thinking about combat and I feel that ultimately, healing is not a necessity in a game and personally to me, it just seems too simple of a system. Could removing healing create a new dynamics? I figured I would post to stir up some ideas on how this would even be implemented. Personally, I was seeing more niche playstyles being filled, but perhaps more individuality in terms of having to worry about one's own survival. Then, I can see that linked in group play in terms of having to help other people also worry about their survival, maybe implement different and unique ways for each type of playstyle/class to save each other -- Warriors shield blocking for their buddies, rogues disarming weapons off other foes, mages teleporting a friend to safety, etc. Of course, that was only my perception of how it could work (probably in an ideal world too) and definitely good to see other responses and perceptions ;) 

First, let me say like the other poster a few pages back... I find myself drawn exclusively to healing classes. Although, not usually the "priest", far more often the druid/shaman types with less of the creepy organized religion feel. I just don't like the class back story for priests, generally. Like that other poster, I will say that any game that didn't have a healing class I'd never play.

As evidence of that I've looked at F2P games, which cost me nothing but time to try out... and if they only have the "organized religion" priest for a healer. Guess what? I never get interested enough to try it.

That being said, I agree that depending on the setting of the game the traditional in-battle healer doesn't make sense. For sci-fi or realism games, it makes far more sense to have say... out of battle healing options. Where if you're engaged in a fight you cannot heal, or that all heals are"heal over time" atop that. These would be more like "medic" skill sets that any player could use. Meaning injuries that cause blood loss could have the bleeding stopped if the medic runs up and tends you duringhte fight, but the wounded person doesn't then regain health... they'd just get tossed back into the fight.

Worst situations would be things like having your melee fighter break a leg, or having your ranged sniper get their arm broken. These things would essentially put them out of the fight, other than as a sitting duck and moving target respectively.

Would this lead to different play styles, certainly. If your medic cannot set your broken limbs and use a technological tricorder device of some sort to mend the bone and tissue until the shit storm has calmed down, you'd damn well need to be more careful in the fights. I don't think doing away with healing all together would be terribly great though. Then you'd have to wonder about things like how death affects players, they may just kamikaze and then run back into the instance or back to the fight in some cases.

healers are used so games can implement elite mobs that take 300 hits to kill. I HATE that more than anything else. I cant stand how some MMO's base end game off "Elite" mobs basically meaning they hit way too hard and have way to many hit points. I'd personally rather some mobs hit hard but die a lot easier and players die because they dont have group heals or massive heals on them. Thats far more challenging than the typical sit back and spam heals... OMG... so challenging. Personal Banadaging or health pots should be it.

I'm against lessening variety. We should be asking for more classes with degrees of subtlety between them. Or just go classless and let the players build the chars they want like you could pre-nge swg, or eve.

I would love a MMO without any magic whatsoever. That would of course force the developer to make a more dynamic and realistic combat system.  Maybe a historical MMO or just a low fantasy one.

I think it would be a bad idea to remove healers from all MMOs but for a few it is good. I would also like to have a game focused more on stealth, traps and intelligence and less on regular DPS.

Theif online or something like that.

I think todays MMOs goes more and more on just DPs while still using the old tank and spank AI, not really a good thing. Better AI, more choices for combat styles and more realistic combats. More doesn't mean 100% realism of course, that is both impossible and boring but 20% instead of 0 would be nice.

And with no healers I also means no pots. That forces you to not get injured or face the consequences.

Originally posted by Jairoe03

 To begin, this thread is just theory and speculation only (with a little bit of fun, hopefully!). The general situation I'm presenting within an MMORPG in general is:

How would a game be impacted by removing Healers from an MMORPG completely? Good or bad?
NOTE: I'm thinking Healers as a class mainly
 

Personally, I think it'll create dynamics normally not found in games if Healers were eliminated with more emphasis on surviving rather than making up the damage. I can imagine a game working fairly well with absolutely no Healer class but with very limited healing abilities (potions or bandaids etc.). Your health all of a sudden becomes a very important aspect of the game and I'm sure people will be finding ways to mitigate damage while still trying to function within the roles they specialize in. I think the game would be unconventional in terms of balancing out different ability sets/classes, but perhaps it could make it easier as well since we are also removing a dynamic that is usually accounted for.

I can also see more emphasis on different types of group tactics used, some immediate thoughts come to mind such as a stout Warrior helping a Mage friend by helping shield and taking damage for him while the Mage pelts a raid boss with fireballs and having to spread damage around more evenly to keep from anyone dying during an encounter maybe by a group effort of kiting while dodging huge blizzards (and perhaps utilizing a more complex aggro system). These are just some of the thoughts that come to mind when I think of it.

 

What about your thoughts if any? Good or bad, should there be a game that takes a Healer position completely out of the picture.

For Pvp instant heals got to go, pve fine but when It's Player vs Player instant heals have no room in balance, If heals are to be in the game they need a cast time and a side effect, Like heals on a Alli or self also regain your enemy health by 10% of that heal , ,that way a non healers vs a healer will have a chance.... Thats for Free MMO Dev.

Originally posted by Jairoe03

So the simple version of what I've described above is:

• Sure.  Healers can be removed as long as they're replaced with something at least as fun.

 Oh, but what if a game was built with no healing mechanic in mind? How would the game end up? Would an additional role/s surface as a result from not having any heals which focus around survival? 

Creating a game from scratch without healing is what I meant by that statement.  Having healing, then removing it is a SWG-class mistake (because the people who didn't like your game have already left and aren't coming back...and the players who remain actually like your current mechanics for the most part.)

If we're assuming everything else is unchanged, the removal of healing as a role wouldn't add roles to the game (although the remaining roles would shift to fill the void) so it would almost certainly create a void in gameplay depth.  That void would need to be filled with something, or you'd simply have a shallower game.  Adding new roles would be an intentional design choice, and would be one way a game might survive without healers (although it'd face the challenges I mentioned in my previous post.)

Originally posted by Loke666

I would love a MMO without any magic whatsoever. That would of course force the developer to make a more dynamic and realistic combat system.  Maybe a historical MMO or just a low fantasy one.

I think it would be a bad idea to remove healers from all MMOs but for a few it is good. I would also like to have a game focused more on stealth, traps and intelligence and less on regular DPS.

Theif online or something like that.

I think todays MMOs goes more and more on just DPs while still using the old tank and spank AI, not really a good thing. Better AI, more choices for combat styles and more realistic combats. More doesn't mean 100% realism of course, that is both impossible and boring but 20% instead of 0 would be nice.

And with no healers I also means no pots. That forces you to not get injured or face the consequences.

Im all for this idea of Thief Online. Maybe something like Bounty Hunter Online, Ala Indiana Jones and Matthew Rielly's books style. Create tons of Dungeons filled with traps but no monsters, maybe some animals here and there. =D

I suppose having no healing would make things a little interesting... the idea of micro-management, say, in Starcraft, comes to mind.

In Starcraft, say I have a pack of marines (ranged dps) fighting, of, a pack of zerglings (melee dps). A pack being about 12.

If a player is using the attack-move command, the AI has a way of choosing who it attacks - at first, it attacks whatever it sees. If it is attacked by something, it will go for whoever attacked it. If it is attacked by several things, it will go for the closest.

www.youtube.com/watch <- Terran Micro-management techniques, if you're interested.

Anyway, with that sort of AI, the closest player who is attacking an enemy with other players, would be attacked first by the enemy. After that player has taken a bit of damage, they could run away, and the AI would go "wait, he isn't attacking me. He is using the "move" command - but several enemies are attacking me now, so I will attack the closest of them!" and the encounter would continue...

This form of movement-tanking, I suppose you could call it, could be interesting for an MMO to try to achieve. They would have to explain it well, though - probably with little "tanking" tutorial missions/quests, or something along those lines.

In World of Warcraft - hunters can use "distracting shot" to effectively "grab aggro" from another hunter - with about three or four hunters (in a large enough room), you can kill a melee boss.

Adding in more interesting ways to encounter and kill monsters and enemies would be good, and I would love to see some of them.

(And no, god no, I would not just cut the healer out of the Holy Trinity and see what happens, if anyone's thinking that. Ack. Tanks and DPS is just... terrible.)

Originally posted by Pocahinha

Why remove? they are there for people to choose...if you dont wanna play a healer dont...but some people do..its a choice

 

If they remove healers then people wont have a choice

I think and feel this way about it too. We need MORE class options, not less. And eliminating a class archetype that many people enjoy playing....doesn't seem like an improvement, to me.

Sure...I think class mechanics probably need a good overhaul in some games, but taking CHOICES away, when it comes to gaming....I don't see that as any kind of improvement.

Originally posted by Blazz

In World of Warcraft - hunters can use "distracting shot" to effectively "grab aggro" from another hunter - with about three or four hunters (in a large enough room), you can kill a melee boss.

 

Adding in more interesting ways to encounter and kill monsters and enemies would be good, and I would love to see some of them.

Good stuff. My WoW main was a mage, and I always wanted to get a group of five together and see what we could handle. Even having two in the same group (pre-LK) was quite impressive. Mages have a lot of tricks.

Damned repair costs scared too many people away. I never got to try it. It would have been a lot of fun.

What a shame the the mechanics of some games actually work against having fun.

Most people playing healers are obnoxious attentionwhores so I am all for removing this class.

Originally posted by Forumfall

Most people playing healers are obnoxious attentionwhores so I am all for removing this class.

Your post is ironic, given that "blatant flamebait" and "obnoxious attention-whore" are synonymous too.

I don't think healers need to be removed, per say. I do think that they shouldn't be the core of every group. MMOs are so dedicated to the healer being a staple of every group we may never see this. I think its ridiculous one class can hold every single group in a game hostage.

I wouldn't remove healers for the sake of removing healers, particularly if the theme calls for it (in D&D-style fantasy, clerics and the like are an important thematic aspect and so would be missed). But from a game mechanics point of view you could do it. City of Heroes/Villains comes close to this. While there are healing power sets, they aren't required and most teams can do just fine without them. Damage mitigation comes from buffs and debuffs.