Originally posted by pencilrick

Most of us know WOW is the big giant out there in the MMO world, and many of us feel WOW is a bit too slow on the expansions, forcing players to repeat old content again and again and again.

But WOW is coming out with a new expansion, "Cataclysm", that I predict will rock the charts just like all of their expansions.  So, between now and when Cataclysm releases, is a window of opportunity for a new first rate MMO to step in and scoop up some bored WOW players.

Is this not so?  Therefore, I think FF XIV would be wise to release before Cataclysm comes out.  Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

I played WoW for 4 years and FFXI for 2 years before that.  I loved both games while playing them, but looking back, ffxi has my heart.  A lot of us in WoW hate the direction it's going.  I personally believe Blizzard has become an RMT by any other name.

Cataclysm offers nothing for  a player like me.  No new classes, remodeling of old zones, just the same thing all over again.  I do not want FFXI to think it is in direct competition with WoW, though that's the elephant in the room.

While WoW was at the height of its popularity, and still is, FFXI did not make fundamental changes to its game in order to attract the casual friendly crowd.  Yeah they made some changes to the leveling grind, but they didn't sell out their vision of the game.

If any company is strong enough to resist the poor aspect of WoW in implementing it in their own game, it's SquareEnix.  Yes, I know they said they're borrowing some concepts from WoW, but I bet that FFXIV will be far closer to FFXI than it will ever be to WoW.

SquareEnix, take your time, release when you think it's best.  We have faith in you.

I Don't think they have much to worry about, Cataclysm will be boring like the other 2 expansions have been, and once people get over the new races and the new looking old zones, they will stand in whatever the new capital city is and talk to their friends til they get bored and eventually cancel their subscription again when they realize MSN is free.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Most of us know WOW is the big giant out there in the MMO world, and many of us feel WOW is a bit too slow on the expansions, forcing players to repeat old content again and again and again.

But WOW is coming out with a new expansion, "Cataclysm", that I predict will rock the charts just like all of their expansions.  So, between now and when Cataclysm releases, is a window of opportunity for a new first rate MMO to step in and scoop up some bored WOW players.

Is this not so?  Therefore, I think FF XIV would be wise to release before Cataclysm comes out.  Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

Actually no they don't need to launch before WoW's Cataclysm comes out. Sure WoW is a giant in the industry and a fairly popular giant at that, but most of us here waiting on FFXIV are old FFXI players. We already chose FFXI over WoW so not sure why you would worry about us not picking FFXIV over WoW as well.

In any case FFXIV like its predecessor will be multi-platform which is not something WoW can claim currently. PS3, 360 (Eventually) and PC players. Combine with the numerous means of playing this MMO, the popularity of the title and the fact that they've already had one very successful MMO with the same IP....... I think it's fairly safe to say they don't need to rush to compete with WoW, there best bet would be to take there time and launch a quality product. Rushing would only do harm as there is absolutely no need for them to rush it.

Like others have said, FFXIV will be able to hold its own in the wake of the WoW expansion.

Launching before the expansion would actually be more potentially harmful to the game. Any bored WoW players that join at that point likely have no intention of sticking with the game so as soon as the expansion does launch the server populations would suddenly become very destabilised. Not to mention the harm they'd do as the game is just starting to build a community.

I would have thought that ever since the failed launches of AoC, WAR and countless other MMOs that devs and players alike would realise that aiming for a high number of players at launch is a BAD thing. They need to aim FFXIV especially at FFXI fans, general FF fans and JRPG fans. After that they can work on drawing in the other audiences. Going about things this way has the game's sub numbers increase over time, rather than decrease, and allows them to polish the game a lot more for the audiences that are more likely to dismiss it. You have to admit that previous FF fans are likely to be more forgiving of bugs and other issues than burned out WoW players who will happily dismiss anything after a few hours of play time.

If they dont do something about the slow combat I have seen in all the videos for FF they aren't gonna make it in the wow times of mmos. Slow combat is a thing of the past and no matter how much you like FF if you have been playing wow you will not like the current state of combat in FF.

Originally posted by morbiusv

If they dont do something about the slow combat I have seen in all the videos for FF they aren't gonna make it in the wow times of mmos. Slow combat is a thing of the past and no matter how much you like FF if you have been playing wow you will not like the current state of combat in FF.

I left WoW for FFXI last summer, as did a number of my friends... so there definately IS a market for slower, more tactical combat. Not everyone likes just mashing hotkeys everytime the cooldown is up. The footage we've seen of combat so far is pre-alpha as well... it's missing almost all of the combat mechanics besides normal skills. They have yet to add in skill chains and bursts. We haven't even seen magic yet, and judging by the first trailer there's some interesting mechanics in there like that barrier spell.

There's no way FFXIV will rival WoW's numbers, but by now I hope most devs realise there's no point in trying. There never will be a WoW killer, so they have to aim for different audiences entirely. That's what FFXIV is doing.

Originally posted by morbiusv

If they dont do something about the slow combat I have seen in all the videos for FF they aren't gonna make it in the wow times of mmos. Slow combat is a thing of the past and no matter how much you like FF if you have been playing wow you will not like the current state of combat in FF.

well clearly you play WoW and just things like it. FFXI and likely FF14 are COMPLETELY diffrent games from WoW, so they will draw from very diffrent crowds, honestly me and many others dont mind slower combat that makes you think about your next action (and gives you time to talk).  Ive tryed getting int WoW and EQ2 and LOTRO and such, but i cant stand contantly spamming the same few skills over and over every time they recharge (not to mention how easy it was to lvl up and solo)

Chess is a thing of the past guyz =( It's slow and slow is thing of the past. So glad this new world of chess is coming out which makes it a lot more fasterpaced for all the ADD kids!

By the way, I'd be more worried about this coming out before 2012 than Cataclysm. The game wouldn't be very successful I'm afraid, with world coming to an end and all =/.

Originally posted by Hyanmen

Chess is a thing of the past guyz =( It's slow and slow is thing of the past. So glad this new world of chess is coming out which makes it a lot more fasterpaced for all the ADD kids!

If we could avoid spreading baseless insults on a segment of the population, that would be nice.  Just because someone has ADD doesn't mean they need everything to be fast-paced, and just because some people like things fast-paced doesn't mean it isn't fun.

I don't care if it comes out before or after Cataclysm.  As long as it's nearly bug free at launch with a good amount of content (meaning a little bit of everything right at the get go), I'll be a happy camper.  There's no reason for S-E to rush their new MMO, and judging by the way they've talked about it...they don't intend.  They'll obviously give it their all, but it doesn't seem like they want to cut any corners.

yes, infact i agree with some poster here

this game should be out after Cataclysm, the idea is that so the bored WoW or any other bored MMO players wont all jumped into the boat and left after the Cataclysm is released thus making an instant destabilize impact on the newly server

you wouldn't want those ( sorry i mean no offense here at all ) WoW community to ruin the community FFXI players have created and the so called best community of any MMO up to this point

ok not all are bad, many is matured, but you got to agree with me, most of the community at WoW is terribad in almost all servers

i was once the victim of WoW's superiority, i played 2 months of FFXI and enjoyed it so much, but only to be flattered by the existence of WoW thus im pulled away into it and loved it at 1st, but i quit as soon as i heard there will be FFXIV with the growing list of immatures and the ever growing content that becomes easier by every expansion

so my point is, SE should just stick with that they do best, and forget about any WoW expansion, because FFXIV itself is already a different game so far as we see it

Originally posted by TweFoju

yes, infact i agree with some poster here

this game should be out after Cataclysm, the idea is that so the bored WoW or any other bored MMO players wont all jumped into the boat and left after the Cataclysm is released thus making an instant destabilize impact on the newly server

you wouldn't want those ( sorry i mean no offense here at all ) WoW community to ruin the community FFXI players have created and the so called best community of any MMO up to this point

ok not all are bad, many is matured, but you got to agree with me, most of the community at WoW is terribad in almost all servers

i was once the victim of WoW's superiority, i played 2 months of FFXI and enjoyed it so much, but only to be flattered by the existence of WoW thus im pulled away into it and loved it at 1st, but i quit as soon as i heard there will be FFXIV with the growing list of immatures and the ever growing content that becomes easier by every expansion

so my point is, SE should just stick with that they do best, and forget about any WoW expansion, because FFXIV itself is already a different game so far as we see it

There is absolutely nothing that should make us think that the FFXI community will magically transport to FXIV. This is what I was talking about in one of my earlier posts. FFXI has an existing community and with the release of FFXIV that community will still exist within the confines of XI. FFXIV will undoubtedly attract many folks from FFXI, but XIV is looking like it's going to be a different game in many ways. Being that it's a new Final Fantasy mmorpg this will also attract fans of FF who didn't like XI for whatever reason (I fall into that category).

EQ2 did not have the exact same community as EQ1, AC1's community pretty much flat-out refused AC2, and FFXIV will exist as a seperate entity than FFXI. The sooner people drop their preconceived notions, the better off they will be to accept the differences between FFXI and XIV.

Also, people need to really stop generalizing the WoW community as a whole. The very vocal minority of douchebags that plague that game will most likely stick to that game where they can have their superiority complex. However, those of us who are decent people and are simply looking for something different than WoW are being shunned by players from other communities based upon our gaming resume. To do that is to be no better than the idiots who give the WoW community a bad name.

The only way SE could screw themselves would be to try and release on the same day/same week, other then that I seriously doubt it will matter when they release in the long run.

 Nah, what they need to do is to take their time.  It does not matter when they release - as long the game is polished and great.

Originally posted by Zyuu83

 Nah, what they need to do is to take their time.  It does not matter when they release - as long the game is polished and great.

Aye.  There's a hunger in many WoW players for other options.  Just so happens that other games get rushed out the door, WoW players try them, find the suck, and go back to WoW.  Rushing things just means you get a bad game that relatively few people want to play.  (I don't want to get into a debate on the WoW community, but I'd only note it that it is reasonable to want to attract players to a new game and there are plenty of good, nice people who play WoW for what it is worth).
 

They have no need to rush this game. Their target audience isnt the WoW community, but those playing WoW and other MMOs that are looking for something new or are fans of the Final Fantasy series. The game is going to differ from WoW while still trying to maintain a different combat style. In the end my only opinion is simply the point of this thread: They should take there time, producing a crappy product before another isn't going to help them. However they have said they are gunning for end of Q2, early Quarter 3 I think they said. Which is before Cataclysm. In addition they have been working on this for sometime, they just waited to reveal it. I look forward to this title.

Hmm, to put my post above another way...

1.  If they want to compete for some WoW players, rushing a game out will kill them because people don't like buggy and incomplete games.  They won't get those players of a polished game to switch over.

2.  If they don't want to compete for some WoW players, rushing the game out will kill them because people don't like buggy and incomplete games.  They won't get other sorts of players to stay.

Yeah, they might hold on to some people if it is buggy and incomplete, but not as much as they could.

Anyhow, either way they go they should take their time to make a polished product.

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by TweFoju

yes, infact i agree with some poster here

this game should be out after Cataclysm, the idea is that so the bored WoW or any other bored MMO players wont all jumped into the boat and left after the Cataclysm is released thus making an instant destabilize impact on the newly server

you wouldn't want those ( sorry i mean no offense here at all ) WoW community to ruin the community FFXI players have created and the so called best community of any MMO up to this point

ok not all are bad, many is matured, but you got to agree with me, most of the community at WoW is terribad in almost all servers

i was once the victim of WoW's superiority, i played 2 months of FFXI and enjoyed it so much, but only to be flattered by the existence of WoW thus im pulled away into it and loved it at 1st, but i quit as soon as i heard there will be FFXIV with the growing list of immatures and the ever growing content that becomes easier by every expansion

so my point is, SE should just stick with that they do best, and forget about any WoW expansion, because FFXIV itself is already a different game so far as we see it

 

There is absolutely nothing that should make us think that the FFXI community will magically transport to FXIV. This is what I was talking about in one of my earlier posts. FFXI has an existing community and with the release of FFXIV that community will still exist within the confines of XI. FFXIV will undoubtedly attract many folks from FFXI, but XIV is looking like it's going to be a different game in many ways. Being that it's a new Final Fantasy mmorpg this will also attract fans of FF who didn't like XI for whatever reason (I fall into that category).

EQ2 did not have the exact same community as EQ1, AC1's community pretty much flat-out refused AC2, and FFXIV will exist as a seperate entity than FFXI. The sooner people drop their preconceived notions, the better off they will be to accept the differences between FFXI and XIV.

Also, people need to really stop generalizing the WoW community as a whole. The very vocal minority of douchebags that plague that game will most likely stick to that game where they can have their superiority complex. However, those of us who are decent people and are simply looking for something different than WoW are being shunned by players from other communities based upon our gaming resume. To do that is to be no better than the idiots who give the WoW community a bad name.

Thats the thing though, most that I know are leaving FFXI for FFXIV when it launches. FFXI was fun but it ran it's course for me and many others after about 5 years. Some simply do not have an MMO to turn to so continue to stay, in the end though they are simply waiting on options. I know of at least 7 large LS's going to FFXIV once it launches and many small ones.

You are right though, FFXIV will not be FFXI. The community will not be the exact same community we have had in FFXI. This is many years after the fact so many new gamers will be on the scene. We will have new faces from older gamers that will just stop by to check it out. We will have players that avoided FFXI because of the grind checking things out to see if it's more casual friendly. There will be a ton of new faces, but do not mistake that for the lack of old and familiar faces. There will be a great number of old FFXI players comming to check out FFXIV as well.

Originally posted by pencilrick

Most of us know WOW is the big giant out there in the MMO world, and many of us feel WOW is a bit too slow on the expansions, forcing players to repeat old content again and again and again.

But WOW is coming out with a new expansion, "Cataclysm", that I predict will rock the charts just like all of their expansions.  So, between now and when Cataclysm releases, is a window of opportunity for a new first rate MMO to step in and scoop up some bored WOW players.

Is this not so?  Therefore, I think FF XIV would be wise to release before Cataclysm comes out.  Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

The accessibility of World of Warcraft, which is now loathingly refered to as it's penchant for pandering to whiners and becoming too "EZ mode" for many players in recent months is also part of the recipe for it's mass appeal and financial success, which in turn gave it the ability to keep moving forward, create new content, including it's "free" content funded by the sizable subscription base. 

Square's limited appeal with FFXI was in it's adherence to stringent quality and content control by it's developers.  It catered primarily to a die-hard FF fanbase, and still does to a great extent, unlike the string of piss-poor "sequels" and "remakes" in recent years that have let many fans down.

To be fair, I attended this year's BlizzCon, and from what I saw of Cataclysm, Square has nothing to worry about.  Blizzard is taking something already horrifically watered down to cater to the masses, and diluting it down into oblivion.  Many people I talked to that attended BlizzCon were greatly disappointed with the direction Blizzard's WoW dev team is taking this next  expansion, simplifying it even more for an even "broader" audience.  It's all about the bottom line nowdays at Blizzard HQ, boys and girls.

It's going to be about how much Square wants to increase its profits, really.  If they want to really sell themselves cheap, they can cater to a broader audience and give FFXIV a less complicated, mass appeal much like Blizzard has done with World of Warcraft.  You can look at it in one of two ways; a) they can also "sell out" in order to give their shareholders their much desired bottom line, or b) they can reach out to a broader audience to gain a higher subscription base in order to gain the financial success required to keep giving players the constant flow of fresh new content they crave, preferably in the form of "free content" much like WoW's major content "patches".

Personally, I'd like to see Square/ENIX take a cue from the big players in the MMO market, and lean more towards a development style that will cater to a broader market, and create something far more enjoyable than they did with FFXI.  While FFXI had it's bright spots, it also had some glaring flaws that made it a major disappointment to many MMO players out there.  For those with less time on their hands, FFXI was NOT a casual-gamer friendly game that you could easily log into in your spare time.

Originally posted by BartDaCat

Originally posted by pencilrick

Most of us know WOW is the big giant out there in the MMO world, and many of us feel WOW is a bit too slow on the expansions, forcing players to repeat old content again and again and again.

But WOW is coming out with a new expansion, "Cataclysm", that I predict will rock the charts just like all of their expansions.  So, between now and when Cataclysm releases, is a window of opportunity for a new first rate MMO to step in and scoop up some bored WOW players.

Is this not so?  Therefore, I think FF XIV would be wise to release before Cataclysm comes out.  Just my opinion.

Thoughts?

 

The accessibility of World of Warcraft, which is now loathingly refered to as it's penchant for pandering to whiners and becoming too "EZ mode" for many players in recent months is also part of the recipe for it's mass appeal and financial success, which in turn gave it the ability to keep moving forward, create new content, including it's "free" content funded by the sizable subscription base. 

Square's limited appeal with FFXI was in it's adherence to stringent quality and content control by it's developers.  It catered primarily to a die-hard FF fanbase, and still does to a great extent, unlike the string of piss-poor "sequels" and "remakes" in recent years that have let many fans down.

To be fair, I attended this year's BlizzCon, and from what I saw of Cataclysm, Square has nothing to worry about.  Blizzard is taking something already horrifically watered down to cater to the masses, and diluting it down into oblivion.  Many people I talked to that attended BlizzCon were greatly disappointed with the direction Blizzard's WoW dev team is taking this next  expansion, simplifying it even more for an even "broader" audience.  It's all about the bottom line nowdays at Blizzard HQ, boys and girls.

It's going to be about how much Square wants to increase its profits, really.  If they want to really sell themselves cheap, they can cater to a broader audience and give FFXIV a less complicated, mass appeal much like Blizzard has done with World of Warcraft.  You can look at it in one of two ways; a) they can also "sell out" in order to give their shareholders their much desired bottom line, or b) they can reach out to a broader audience to gain a higher subscription base in order to gain the financial success required to keep giving players the constant flow of fresh new content they crave, preferably in the form of "free content" much like WoW's major content "patches".

Personally, I'd like to see Square/ENIX take a cue from the big players in the MMO market, and lean more towards a development style that will cater to a broader market, and create something far more enjoyable than they did with FFXI.  While FFXI had it's bright spots, it also had some glaring flaws that made it a major disappointment to many MMO players out there.  For those with less time on their hands, FFXI was NOT a casual-gamer friendly game that you could easily log into in your spare time.

A) Penchant ... good fucking lord people use a freaking thesaurus once in a while. One person drudges this word up in a blog and everyone and their freaking uncle has made this the word de jour for the past 2-3 years. Affection, affinity, attachment, bias, disposition, druthers, inclining, itch, leaning, liking, partiality, predilection, predisposition, proclivity, proneness, propensity, taste, tendency, tilt, turn, weakness, yen  ... all from Thesaurus.com ... let me add my person favorite: hard-on. Seriously ... I blame you blogosphere.

B) FFXI was NOT a casual-gamer friendly game that you could easily log into in your spare time. ... I am still going to throw out there that I have never had a problem with playing FFXI in my spare time. The game came second to real life and I never had a problem with that, occasionally others did, but that didn't effect the way I played. Ironically it was in playing WoW that I found the first group of people who expected me to bend my time around what they wanted to do. Four guilds in about 5 months of WoW ... 2 linkshells in 6 years on FFXI ... ... just saying ....