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News & Features Discussion  » General: List: 10 MMOs and Their Place In History

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140 posts found
  wolfmann

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 1165

11/18/09 6:53:06 PM#41

A good respectable list from Jon.

I would have selected different on a few, but I'm not the one writing.

The last of the Trackers

  Swoogie

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/08
Posts: 402

11/18/09 7:36:01 PM#42

I actually agree wiht this list. I was expecting to disagree with most of it.

  korndog22

Novice Member

Joined: 5/12/07
Posts: 63

11/18/09 9:38:35 PM#43

I think this list is great , and agree .By the way for those that disagree with the sims and such , It does not say mmorpg in the title.Just MMO .I am one that agrees that wow should be number 1 and i do not play it anymore.Here is why.The basis of this article is that these are the games that most influnced the genre.If you can say that any game out there influenced the spark of the genre more than wow , you would be crazy.The reason are very good.They never say wow is the best game.They say wow opend the doors for games today , either through the change in more companies wanting to take a chance at developing a mmo or the fact that if it wasn't for wow , the genre itself would have never caught on mainstream as it did.Just a thought but it is obviously true.Once WoW hit shelves games of the genre started popping up every where.Something that probably wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for wow.And many of the games we  play today may have not gotten a chance to even be developed.

Great list

 

PS i do also agree that there are a few that influenced the genre and didnt make list.But i bet he weighed his decision  on his picks ad am sure he knows that he left some out that he had to based on his opinion.

  kamandi

Novice Member

Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 2

11/18/09 9:45:14 PM#44
Originally posted by PeacemakerOn

Terra: Battle for the Outlands - this is a game which sadly doesn't get much notice anymore. Released in 1996 (Before Ultima). Why does it deserve a spot? ...

... And get this, you can still play it. What other MMO can you say has run from 1996 until today? Sure its had its falls, even almost went completely dead a few times, but the players refused to give up on it.

Back in 1992, I got my first job in the game industry working on the Kingdom of Drakkar. It is still alive and kicking after 17 years.

http://www.kingdomofdrakkar.com/

  Rohn

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/02/08
Posts: 3745

11/18/09 9:56:31 PM#45
Originally posted by Comnitus

Surprised there's no DAoC. DAoC gave a meaning to team PvP. DAoC spawned the concept of "realm pride". Oh well, I guess the game that proved it wasn't vaporware after 8 years is more important to the genre's history.


 

I agree.  Darkfall gets on the list as historic because it eventually proved it existed, while DAoC is left off.  That's ridiculous.

Definitely some recency issues here.  Seriously, 10 years from now, how many people will remember Darkfall as compared to DAoC?

Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  ihaveurnose

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/09
Posts: 16

11/18/09 9:59:40 PM#46

Now I don't play runescape anymore (due to the current CEO), but facts are facts. Runescape is the biggest and most successful BROWSER game. And isn't RS also the first game that introduced a F2P AND a P2P version for a game? ("free trials" are completely different than RS' F2P version)

 

So...according to the start of this article, that's 2 things that Runescape has done to make it's mark in the MMO world. It should've made it to this list...even if it was ranked #10, it more than deserves to be on this list.

  dstar.

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/06
Posts: 479

HI!

11/18/09 10:57:54 PM#47

I'd take out Darkfall and put in DAOC as a very influential game in introducing RvR, faction based pvp with a real impact on the game world, and showing the world that pvp wasn't all the <insert pve'r insult here> it was made out to be and could actually be fun, even for Moms looking to game.  Darkfall has done absolutely jack all for the genre.

I'd also take out DDO and replace it with Guild Wars as it actually showed everyone that a pseudo MMO can thrive and profit without charging people monthly from the get go instead of switching to f2p in a desperate attempt to keep the game a float and not shut down like Turbine did with DDO.  Not only that but GW revolutionized the RPG genre by introducing a true tournament based PvP system, WoW soon answered them with the arenas.

Other than that good list.

  Lanthir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 220

11/18/09 11:10:34 PM#48
Originally posted by Lexin

A few of those games don't deserve a place in history. No guild Wars? No Final Fantasy XI? No Everquest?

This article really needs to be scrapped.


 

Everquest was number 3 on the list

 

 

I would point out the articles are a stimulate for conversation and are the writers opinon.  Clearly, it has stimulated debate as to what games should and should not be on the list  just like other lists that have been posted in the past

Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  Lanthir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 220

11/18/09 11:13:48 PM#49
Originally posted by Morgaren

The reason wow is at the top of the list is because it is the most significant historicly, from the numbers its generated, to the amount of games that try to copy its model, changing the way gamers look at the genre. Think of how many MMO's can get funding from investors because the investors want to be in on "the next WoW" before you couldn't get funding, because there was no proof as to how much money these games could make.


 

Well the arugments can be made that WoW  is just a copy of the EQ model.  I would also venture to say that it was EQ's vast success that allowed the devs to pitch the idea of having a WoW mmo to blizzard board with success

Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  Lanthir

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 220

11/18/09 11:19:34 PM#50
Originally posted by jamesinge

Cant see how DAOC was not on the list.

WOW is 1/2 Eq and 1/2 DAOC , they brought us factions and battlegrounds etc.

Good List but DAOC should have at least gotten a quip.


 

well actually EQ had factions before DAOC.  Do recall that Sk, necros, DE and latter iskar were killed on site by the oppossing faction guards as were the "good" guys by theirs and that was on the blue servers.  When FV server came out  you could not talk to a player of a different race even if there were "on your side" sort to speak unless you took the time to learn their races lanquage.  Then you had the Zek servers which had sides based on race, or religon on two of them.

Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  n2sooners

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/03
Posts: 926

11/18/09 11:22:49 PM#51

I think EQ and UO should have been one and two and WoW number three. Those three games each seem to be an era in the MMORPG genre. While UO was first, I think EQ has had the most overall influence. If EQ hadn't been the success it was, many of the games on that list (and many not on the list) likely would have most likely never existed.

I would have added DAoC as well. Not only did it have exciting and meaningful PvP, but it was also a very successful and polished game for it's era. While it was incomplete at launch, it was still one of the best launches of that time (and better than many to this day).

And add me to the list of those that misses the old SWG. I had a CH/BE and I have never seen a game with crafting anywhere near as interesting and exciting as bioengineering. From crawling up behind some creature that could kick your butt wearing nothing but some scent masking clothing to experimenting with recipes where no two creatures came out the same to testing out some of your creations yourself, it was by far the most rewarding crafting experience I have had to date. On top of that, it is the only game I have played where I had fun just hanging out in the bar listening to music and watching the dancers. I even had different outfits. I never did that in other games unless the outfits had some type of combat advantage. Just a unique game experience and I'm sad it's gone. Great, now I've managed to depress myself. ;)

  dalevi1

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/04
Posts: 858

11/18/09 11:56:56 PM#52

My first reply...haven't read the rest.

I have to admit. You picked 10 mmo's, not a "top 10" mmo's. So, there has to be some forgiveness intended. UO, of course is a staple, no I never played the game, and I am glad I didn't, but it seems every 2009 account on MMO is a "pre-trammel" player, whatever that means.

Darkfall, has two servers...each "able to handle up to 10,000 players at once". Conclusion, there are less than 20k subs. If this rocks your boat, well done. In the definition of vaporware, DF nailed it for years. Then it released, and not only did people get a game that did not add up to the website feature list, they got a months long wait just to buy into beta. Darkfall does have a place in history although. By creating 8 years of hype, and being better than DnL, and making people wait for donuts, you might just be able to fund a 2nd server considering the economy in Greece.

Sims online...Released in 2002. Second Life was released in 2003. Which company exerted more control over the user, and which is still...Right...for better or worse, sl.

No Final Fantasy? I think it also released on a console? Major props for a mmo...

EvE...Not my game. Well done...

SWG. In historic respects, as this article comments on, I would like swg to be known for something other than the NGE, but no chance of that happening. I remember crafting, profession choice, (open) housing, the cantina, hospitals, interdependence. even politics...good times.

Toontown...guess they have a point...DnD...way to turn a failure (not a bad game), into a....

EQ, I go nothing. WoW...both deserve to be here...One lead to the other.

Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.

Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside

Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.

  Delzo

Novice Member

Joined: 11/06/05
Posts: 142

11/19/09 1:47:37 AM#53
Originally posted by dalevi1

SWG. In historic respects, as this article comments on, I would like swg to be known for something other than the NGE, but no chance of that happening. I remember crafting, profession choice, (open) housing, the cantina, hospitals, interdependence. even politics...good times.

 

I also would have liked to see more positives and firsts about SWG than how it screwed it's own subscribers. While a mention of the NGE is the core of what made SWG important to the industry's history, including a description of what was good about the game before the CU/NGE would better explain why no one wants to follow in SWG's footsteps.

I am, however, glad that SWG and the CU/NGE debacle and the lessons learned from it were not swept under the carpet. If WoW best shows devs what works at #1, SWG showed them the quickest way to lose a large playerbase at #2.

_____________________________
Telling people to shut up or go away is fine, but eventually you will run out of people who care.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

11/19/09 3:09:01 AM#54

 Asherons Call - The first MMORPG, and arguably the only one, that succesfuklly implemented a skill based system with open FFA PvP environment on the Darktide server not mentioned? Ridicilous. Just shows that Jon is not the least interested in PvP. Darkfall?? ROFL, its a joke considering Asherons Call was released years earlier and was way better at the time.

WAR - A WoW clone but it had two features that made it stand out. The possibility to level, as fast, in PvP as in PvE (arguably faster) and Public Quests deserves a mention.

Yet another sign that this site puts little value in properly implemented PvP and is focused in brainless PvE raiding with PvP as an afterthought.

  Yamota

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6510

"I fight so you don't have to."

11/19/09 3:14:55 AM#55
Originally posted by dalevi1

 

Darkfall, has two servers...each "able to handle up to 10,000 players at once". Conclusion, there are less than 20k subs. If this rocks your boat, well done. In the definition of vaporware, DF nailed it for years. Then it released, and not only did people get a game that did not add up to the website feature list, they got a months long wait just to buy into beta. Darkfall does have a place in history although. By creating 8 years of hype, and being better than DnL, and making people wait for donuts, you might just be able to fund a 2nd server considering the economy in Greece.

 

No. 10.000 max concurrent players translates to anywhere from 50-100.000 max subscribers. The general formula for an established MMORPG is that 10-20% of max subscribers equals max concurrent players.

So, if Darkfall servers supports 20.000 concurrent players, then it supports a max of around 150.000 subscribers. However that is the maximum capacity and the actual subscriber base is probably much lower.

A good indication of that is Eve wich has a peak concurrent players of around 25.000 (which suggests the max concurrent is atleast 30.000) and it has 300.000 subscribers.

However for your other points I agree. Darkfail is a huge dissapointment considering all the hype.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3496

11/19/09 4:19:16 AM#56

Nice article and I can imagine that it was tough to make a top 10. I dont agree with darkfall online to be in the top 10 though. Would rather replace it with Dark Ages of Camelot, Anarchy Online or Guild Wars.

 

  Chtuga

Novice Member

Joined: 8/04/09
Posts: 111

11/19/09 5:06:28 AM#57

Mostly rubbish, and poor research.

 

I dont think you spent enough time and effort to make your list.

 

Games that served history no purpose is mentioned, while games that made great mmo history isnt mentioned at all.

There are really alot of games that are better than some of the titles mentioned here.

Sims online, toontown shouldnt be mentioned at all.

City of Heroes is maybe at 10, didnt make enough history to make such high place as 7.

Darkfall released this year and mention"what might possibly be its biggest surprise." - This is history, not future history we are discussing, right? 

Star wars galaxies should be before UO and EQ imho. 

Games that deserve to be mentioned are

AO, Daoc, second life, lineage, final fantasy

You should read this article and edit your article after:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_massively_multiplayer_online_games

Please do a better job next time!

 

  mrw0lf

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/05
Posts: 2311

11/19/09 5:08:42 AM#58

Overall nice list.

Given the overall direction of mmo's atm I think I would have included ff because when all mmo's are multi platform it will be seen as the first.

As the first 3dmmo I would consider meridian but then thats more natural progression than inovation and real impact, if they hadn't done someone else would have. I would love to have PS on my list but that would probably be more fitting to WWIIOL as the only 2 real mmofps's and that it seems we are about to have many more in the near future, also that they push the tech boundaries in different ways to other mmo's.

I don't think I would have included The Sims as tbh I didn't even know there was a Sims online. The reason geiven, that it showed a good ip is not enough for a hit mmo, simply hasn't been learnt and therefor had no influence at all, they still all think a good licence is a right to print money.

I also wouldn't have had toontown, as again it had no influence at all, searching for a different demographic isn't making a place in history it's common sence and revenue searching, it hasn't had an impact imo. Also probably wouldn't have had CoH for the same reason, but a bit more understandable given that many more hero games are now coming through.

Good list overall.

-----
“The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  mrw0lf

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/05
Posts: 2311

11/19/09 5:12:21 AM#59
Originally posted by Chtuga

 

Darkfall released this year and mention"what might possibly be its biggest surprise." - This is history, not future history we are discussing, right? 

 


 

I think the surprise being refered to was the game being realsed at all, that is history.

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“The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

  mrw0lf

Novice Member

Joined: 4/09/05
Posts: 2311

11/19/09 5:19:25 AM#60
Originally posted by Yamota

 Asherons Call - The first MMORPG, and arguably the only one, that succesfuklly implemented a skill based system with open FFA PvP environment on the Darktide server not mentioned? Ridicilous. Just shows that Jon is not the least interested in PvP. Darkfall?? ROFL, its a joke considering Asherons Call was released years earlier and was way better at the time.

WAR - A WoW clone but it had two features that made it stand out. The possibility to level, as fast, in PvP as in PvE (arguably faster) and Public Quests deserves a mention.

Yet another sign that this site puts little value in properly implemented PvP and is focused in brainless PvE raiding with PvP as an afterthought.


 

I understand your points and I too probably would have included AO. The article is about impact on history though, not having a unique feature first, how many games since WAR have PvP leveling or public quests, which now I think about it I'm not sure were new in WAR, their implementation may have been different but those features were in previous games.

As for the PvP vs PvE comment I'm not sure I follow as you are critising him having DF on the list in the very same sentance?

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“The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.”

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