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News & Features Discussion  » General: List: 10 MMOs and Their Place In History

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140 posts found
  Lydon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/20/06
Posts: 2918

11/18/09 5:14:46 PM#21

Strange to see Guild Wars absent from the list...the game that proved that P2P quality is available on a "F2P" basis.

  Khalathwyr

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Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

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11/18/09 5:17:51 PM#22
Originally posted by zantax
Originally posted by Cerion

I think you missed a major Title in your history of MMOs.  Wasn't it Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing?  If my memory serves, it was the first MMO to use instanced dungeons which are the staple of many MMOs, and foundation of others.

Also, DDO was pretty innovative with its combat -- a hybrid of FPS and RPG.  Is that historically important? Not sure.

 

Cerion,

No it was not Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing.  All of there dungeons were part of the world that you could enter not seperate entities that only your party could enter.  Anyone could go into any dungeon, and still can.  Now with that said I think Asheron's Call 2 did have instancing so you may be getting them mixed up.

No, Cerion is right (and it's a shame AC was left off your list Jon; tsk tsk). It's a matter of the degree of instancing, but all of the dungeons in AC you had to go through a portal and loading screen to get to. They were in an instance not open to the main world. Whetehr or not that other people could go into them falls under the specification of flavors of how you do instancing. Looking from a high level or macro perspective those were indeed instances. Just instances that theoretically everyone could enter. Just the same as the instanced housing in LOTRO.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Lanthir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 220

11/18/09 5:21:38 PM#23
Originally posted by brostyn

While I understand Blizzard is the by far the biggest MMO ever(and I doubt we ever see another game surpass the 10 million mark) in terms of subscribers I disagree that it should be listed as the number one MMO. No doubt current MMOs are influenced by WoW as all the devs are chasing the numbers. However, lets not forget the MMO that influenced WoW; EQ. Without the success of EQ, and many of EQ faults that WoW learned from, I seriously doubt we would have seen this genre flourish.

 

Not taking anything away from WoW. It does many things right. I have no grudge against it. In fact, I love how they listened to the complaints from EQ players, and did away with downtime and retarded death penalties. I also love how the game is accessible to everyone, unlike EQ where you have to be a hardcore raider to access later content.

 


 

I would tend to agree with you concernign EQ.  However, I belive the OP had WoW at the top soley for the numbers it has generated.  Even though I love EQ and remember when it launched  In its hay day it had a peak of what 500k  then all of a sudden WoW shows up and you see numbers in the millions.

 

  Althought FF had one storey it was not the first to do so.  Eq for one actually has one interwoven main story  if people study the quests and lore.

Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  Lanthir

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/21/04
Posts: 220

11/18/09 5:24:40 PM#24
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by zantax
Originally posted by Cerion

I think you missed a major Title in your history of MMOs.  Wasn't it Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing?  If my memory serves, it was the first MMO to use instanced dungeons which are the staple of many MMOs, and foundation of others.

Also, DDO was pretty innovative with its combat -- a hybrid of FPS and RPG.  Is that historically important? Not sure.

 

Cerion,

No it was not Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing.  All of there dungeons were part of the world that you could enter not seperate entities that only your party could enter.  Anyone could go into any dungeon, and still can.  Now with that said I think Asheron's Call 2 did have instancing so you may be getting them mixed up.

No, Cerion is right (and it's a shame AC was left off your list Jon; tsk tsk). It's a matter of the degree of instancing, but all of the dungeons in AC you had to go through a portal and loading screen to get to. They were in an instance not open to the main world. Whetehr or not that other people could go into them falls under the specification of flavors of how you do instancing. Looking from a high level or macro perspective those were indeed instances. Just instances that theoretically everyone could enter. Just the same as the instanced housing in LOTRO.


 

True but by that definition even Eve is an instanced game.  Generally, people consider only locked instances to be instances when talking about MMO's.

Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!

  cukimunga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/05
Posts: 2275

Ah I'm drunk and I'm in the street like a vagabond.

11/18/09 5:30:42 PM#25

Yeah Im surprised FFXI wasn't on there.  It was the first console mmo if I remember, PS2, 360 and PC can all play on the same server, and I really don't remember any other game before it that used cut scenes for the quests.   Hell really not many games after it used cut scenes for quests, which I wish more would, it brings more immersion to the game, well for me at least.

  Khalathwyr

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Posts: 3151

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11/18/09 5:30:49 PM#26

Also worth mentioning is that Asheron's Call was/is the standard bearer for story in an online world with a Live Team that isn't just there in name. Sizable monthly updates progreeing the storyline. The first I believe to actually allow players to affect the world by their actions and having it have a visual impact on the world (well, on the one server where the players fought for Bhael and won). The first to truly modify the landscape ("Alas poor Arwick, we knew it well").

There are a ton of positives that could'v been taken and used from this game that would've left us with more variety of gameplay in the MMO field.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Lexin

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/09/05
Posts: 701

Mess With The Rest
Die Like The Best!

11/18/09 5:32:05 PM#27

A few of those games don't deserve a place in history. No guild Wars? No Final Fantasy XI? No Everquest?

This article really needs to be scrapped.

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

11/18/09 5:36:08 PM#28
Originally posted by Lanthir
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by zantax
Originally posted by Cerion

I think you missed a major Title in your history of MMOs.  Wasn't it Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing?  If my memory serves, it was the first MMO to use instanced dungeons which are the staple of many MMOs, and foundation of others.

Also, DDO was pretty innovative with its combat -- a hybrid of FPS and RPG.  Is that historically important? Not sure.

 

Cerion,

No it was not Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing.  All of there dungeons were part of the world that you could enter not seperate entities that only your party could enter.  Anyone could go into any dungeon, and still can.  Now with that said I think Asheron's Call 2 did have instancing so you may be getting them mixed up.

No, Cerion is right (and it's a shame AC was left off your list Jon; tsk tsk). It's a matter of the degree of instancing, but all of the dungeons in AC you had to go through a portal and loading screen to get to. They were in an instance not open to the main world. Whetehr or not that other people could go into them falls under the specification of flavors of how you do instancing. Looking from a high level or macro perspective those were indeed instances. Just instances that theoretically everyone could enter. Just the same as the instanced housing in LOTRO.


 

True but by that definition even Eve is an instanced game.  Generally, people consider only locked instances to be instances when talking about MMO's.

I was speaking more technically than genrally. When content is separated from the overall world by a loading screen that in turn separates players from the rest of the playerbase in a gameworld that is otherwise seamless.
 

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  cukimunga

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/03/05
Posts: 2275

Ah I'm drunk and I'm in the street like a vagabond.

11/18/09 5:37:07 PM#29
Originally posted by Lanthir
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by zantax
Originally posted by Cerion

I think you missed a major Title in your history of MMOs.  Wasn't it Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing?  If my memory serves, it was the first MMO to use instanced dungeons which are the staple of many MMOs, and foundation of others.

Also, DDO was pretty innovative with its combat -- a hybrid of FPS and RPG.  Is that historically important? Not sure.

 

Cerion,

No it was not Asheron's Call that introduced Instancing.  All of there dungeons were part of the world that you could enter not seperate entities that only your party could enter.  Anyone could go into any dungeon, and still can.  Now with that said I think Asheron's Call 2 did have instancing so you may be getting them mixed up.

No, Cerion is right (and it's a shame AC was left off your list Jon; tsk tsk). It's a matter of the degree of instancing, but all of the dungeons in AC you had to go through a portal and loading screen to get to. They were in an instance not open to the main world. Whetehr or not that other people could go into them falls under the specification of flavors of how you do instancing. Looking from a high level or macro perspective those were indeed instances. Just instances that theoretically everyone could enter. Just the same as the instanced housing in LOTRO.


 

True but by that definition even Eve is an instanced game.  Generally, people consider only locked instances to be instances when talking about MMO's.

 

I think they might be getting zoned and instanced mixed up. Zones are an area where everyone can go but you have to see a loading screen to get to the other zone, like FFXI.

Then there are 2 kinds of instancing, one is like a dungeon like WoW, only the people in your party can enter that instance. Then there is channels its multiple copies of a game world where anyone can join, via GW.  Now instances don't always have to have loading screens because Fallen Earth does a great job of showing off that technology. 

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

11/18/09 5:40:06 PM#30
Originally posted by Lexin

A few of those games don't deserve a place in history. No guild Wars? No Final Fantasy XI? No Everquest?

This article really needs to be scrapped.


 

This article was Jon's opinion. If you can't handle other people having opinions you might want to get off the internet.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Morgaren

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 394

For me, the gates will open.

11/18/09 5:43:39 PM#31

The reason wow is at the top of the list is because it is the most significant historicly, from the numbers its generated, to the amount of games that try to copy its model, changing the way gamers look at the genre. Think of how many MMO's can get funding from investors because the investors want to be in on "the next WoW" before you couldn't get funding, because there was no proof as to how much money these games could make.

  PeacemakerOn

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 7

11/18/09 5:55:15 PM#32

I agree with a lot of the list, and I am happy to see at least one of the early days of MMO's...but I have to say I feel there are some which should not be excluded.

Meridian59 the FIRST 3D mmo I mean thats kinda a big deal. this is the first MMO as we know them today.

Terra: Battle for the Outlands - this is a game which sadly doesn't get much notice anymore. Released in 1996 (Before Ultima). Why does it deserve a spot? Make a list of what you would like to see in an MMO today, chances are Terra already did it - think EVE but on a planet, with tanks, and existed way beforehand...it was the pre-eve. The biggest reason though, is its fan base...it is a game which was pretty much thrown away by a company who suddenly decided to "go in a different direction", even though it was doing incredibly well for its time. The rights were eventually bought by players who fixed the game back to how it originally played (after another company had messed with it). And get this, you can still play it. What other MMO can you say has run from 1996 until today? Sure its had its falls, even almost went completely dead a few times, but the players refused to give up on it.

I also would have liked to see Guild Wars on the list. first non-subscription, non-microtransaction mmo. may not have WoW numbers, but it was still extremely successful and managed to keep a lot of its main player base for quite awhile. Also, it is a completely instanced mmo, and graphically-wise it was at the top when it came out.

To those saying final fantasy... not sure about that one, yes it has done well and has a large player base, but it is also only for a very niche audience...aka fans of the series. It didn't really affect the mmo industry as a whole. And I must note, Phantasy Star Online was released on the Dreamcast, Windows, the Gamecube, and Xbox, and then the later PSUniverse was on the ps2 making it the first multiconsole before FFXI (though you can argue it wasn't quite a full mmo).

anyways, thats my 2 cents

 

EDIT: Because someone mentioned it...Terra was also the FIRST to actually have a live team as characters in game, to allow players to actually affect the world and its lore with their actions - actually, when the game came out, it didn't really have any story, the story was added later based on the game world and its players' actions. Like how EVE works...two guilds have a massive battle, that was added to the history of the world. The lore that could be found on the site was actually written by a player.

  Druz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/07
Posts: 279

11/18/09 6:04:59 PM#33


AC didn't introduce instancing, quite the opposite... it was the earliest MMO I can think of with a seamless, zoneless world.

Yet the sims online changed the MMO world forever because it was a big IP that failed? Are you kidding me? Might want to put alittle more effort into your next article.

  Khalathwyr

Tipster

Joined: 6/02/04
Posts: 3151

Google is your friend.

11/18/09 6:11:39 PM#34
Originally posted by Druz


AC didn't introduce instancing, quite the opposite... it was the earliest MMO I can think of with a seamless, zoneless world.

Yet the sims online changed the MMO world forever because it was a big IP that failed? Are you kidding me? Might want to put alittle more effort into your next article.

 

Whether one prefers to use the term instance or zone, either or definetly define the dungeons in AC. AC was not completely seamless or zoneless because of that. Now, yeah, 85-90% of the world was but you have to account for that percent that you could only access via going through a portal.

Those things aside, AC is a game that, as a muse, has not been used and is sorely missed by a bunch of folks as to the games that could have been made using it as a base to build upon.

"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."

Kickstarter 1 / Naysayers 0

  Druz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/31/07
Posts: 279

11/18/09 6:26:29 PM#35
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Druz


AC didn't introduce instancing, quite the opposite... it was the earliest MMO I can think of with a seamless, zoneless world.

Yet the sims online changed the MMO world forever because it was a big IP that failed? Are you kidding me? Might want to put alittle more effort into your next article.

 

Whether one prefers to use the term instance or zone, either or definetly define the dungeons in AC. AC was not completely seamless or zoneless because of that. Now, yeah, 85-90% of the world was but you have to account for that percent that you could only access via going through a portal.

Those things aside, AC is a game that, as a muse, has not been used and is sorely missed by a bunch of folks as to the games that could have been made using it as a base to build upon.

It is still 100% seamless in my view, yes it took a portal to get to most dungeons but those dungeons are located under the ocean landblocks, given the ability to no clip you could get to any dungeon without loading. As you might know Turbine even demonstrated their ability for seamless dungeons in their first expansion where you just ran straight down a tunnel to get to the dungeon (I could be off on the time frame, it's been awhile). Portals were only used to even out the population amongst all the landblocks. BUT the idea that it is still basically seamless is my opinion I guess.

  jamesinge

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/09
Posts: 21

11/18/09 6:27:10 PM#36

Cant see how DAOC was not on the list.

WOW is 1/2 Eq and 1/2 DAOC , they brought us factions and battlegrounds etc.

Good List but DAOC should have at least gotten a quip.

  EricTheO

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 1

11/18/09 6:39:41 PM#37

A MMO Top 10 list with no LOTRO = FAIL!

LOTRO may  not have been one of the first MMO's and has derived some benefit from MMO's that came before it, but having played UO and SWG(Beta's of EQ and AO), I cannot see why LOTRO was left out of this list. It has the strongest storyline of any MMO I have played, great graphics, new inovations in gameplay and what has the potential to be one on the longest story arcs and room for expansion of any MMO to date. I know many players that have left other MMO's or played LOTRO, left to play other MMO's i.e.- Conan and Warhammer, and came back to LOTRO becuase it was a more satisfying gaming experience.

 Not even a footnote? FAIL

-Eric
http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000000659e/01003/signature.png

  Sarbocabras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/05/09
Posts: 258

11/18/09 6:40:56 PM#38

Good write-up, boy do I ever miss Pre-Cu and NGE SWG :(

  Trausen

Novice Member

Joined: 12/29/08
Posts: 8

11/18/09 6:41:10 PM#39
Originally posted by Ozreth

Great write up! Perfect summary.

In the EVE section you may want to mention that while some may scoff at 300,000 subsribers, lets not forget that all of those people play together on one server!

 

Haha, I was actually thinking the same thing when I read that. It makes no difference :P

As long as one server is satisfyingly big.

  Comnitus

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 2509

Revenge is a dish best served with mayonnaise and those little cheesy things on sticks.

11/18/09 6:50:39 PM#40

Surprised there's no DAoC. DAoC gave a meaning to team PvP. DAoC spawned the concept of "realm pride". Oh well, I guess the game that proved it wasn't vaporware after 8 years is more important to the genre's history.

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