Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by deviliscious

I can see both sides of this. I do not think voice changers should be used for general gaming. Instead, have a strictly RP sever that has voice changers so that everyone playing knows if your on that server that is the case.  That way, it is expected, and if I want to go on a server and sound like Darth Vader and say " Luke I am your father." or sound like schwarzenegger and say, " I'll be back." I can because that is something I could never do for real.

Have regular voice chat on the other servers. I can see how gender does matter from a female perspective. To have a guy pretend to be a girl and "invade" our inner circles is not only intrusive, it is insulting. Girls ARE different than guys. We tell each other everything. We talk about things with each each other we never would with men and men should not be coming in to spy on us!

Men are not allowed in womens restrooms, and they should not be allowed in our " girl" talk. They can go have their own conversations with the boys, and allow us our space as well. Men should not be disguising themselvesas females to sneak up on us. Men should not be disguising themselves as women to give us a bad reputation by fondling their pixels, scamming sad lonely men, or to " trick" someone. No, That is just not right. I think not only should voice chat be implemented in regular gaming, but cams as well.

My guild used cam or in person interviews for recruits only. This was a good practice because you can really determine their personality and get to know a person prior to allowing their character into the guild.

Really?  Honestly?  As I've stated here, I'm a 30 year old married male who has never played a female character.

I don't care at all if some guy wants to impersonate a woman in guild chat.  I treat men and women the same in MMOs, as I think it should be.  

As for you saying men should not be allowed to "trick" someone - I agree.  Neither should women.  But sad, lonely people seem to always find a way to be tricked and manipulated in this life, one way or another.  Might as well be online where minimal damage can be done...

(That was tongue in cheek for those who don't get my sense of humor.)

Really what? What exactly are you addressing?
 

You just proved my point that Men are different than women. Men do not care if the person they are talking to is a male or female, but alot of women do. Women talk to women different than they do men. Women usually have their guard up around men, and discuss more personal issues among women. To have a man try to impersonate us and breach the  "gender barrier" by thinking they have a right to be included in conversations they know nothing about is just messed up. When men know what it is like to have a period, have their feet hurting from dancing in heels all night, and break out into hives from a Mary Kay makeover party they can then be invited to join our conversations, but as themselves, not as a female impersonater.

Originally posted by deviliscious

When men know what it is like to have a period,

I once was so bloated and constipated that when I finally took a dump my ass felt as big as the Brooklyn Tunnel. So not only do i know what a period feels like, I have also experienced birth.

have their feet hurting from dancing in heels all night,

Try wearing cowboy boots as a main piece of footwear, one night in heels ain't shit.

 and break out into hives from a Mary Kay makeover party

 I once used my ( now ex) wife's Nair on my face to attempt to get out of having to shave.

they can then be invited to join our conversations, but as themselves, not as a female impersonater.

I'd make an ugly woman, so thanks for the invitation, you won't regret it.

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by svann

I think a lot of the hostility comes from the knowledge that many people play female toons to get free stuff.  And dont play ignorant, you all know what Im talking about.  Some will say if you fall for that you deserve to be taken advantage of.  I disagree.  The fact that someone is foolish enough to be defrauded (and that is what it is, a fraud) does not excuse the fraud. 

 

Oh, I don't know.  It might people to stop treating others on things like their gender in an MMO.  I know my wife would appreciate having a "male" voice filter so she stops getting unwanted flirtation.  Let everyone always wonder who that person really is behind the screen...  or insist on webcam gaming for yourself because obviously, you are using your MMO as a dating site, which is kind of sad.

 

I have no idea where you got that from what I wrote.  Maybe you need some help?

That seemed pretty clear to me.  If you can't follow the logical progression of thought there, I can't really help you.

I love these forums.  State a different opinion or a reason why the defrauded might actually, in fact, deserve it - and you "need help" - ah, internets.

Originally posted by Pinkerl

age 12-20

paranoid of being victim to male pretending to be real female to get free stuff

 

 

age 12-20

male pretend to be female just to get free stuff and sell out own gender while having a blast of doing it cause they still immature

 

 

age 24-69

male pretending to be female was never in sight of idea. never despise male playing female character. open minded. never assume female character is a female in reality.  never flirt with every female character they see out of the blue.

This, exactly.  The people who care about this issue are image-obsessed young people without mates or significant others who are desperate to use MMO's as a dating service - or they are "real" gamer girls desperate to keep their "special unicorn" status.

It's a matter of maturity.  I see almost nobody over the age of 30 who gives two s*its what voice filter you use.  I care a lot more if you're intelligent, articulate, and polite - male or female doesn't matter.  I have a family already; not looking to meet one while playing Aion.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by deviliscious

I can see both sides of this. I do not think voice changers should be used for general gaming. Instead, have a strictly RP sever that has voice changers so that everyone playing knows if your on that server that is the case.  That way, it is expected, and if I want to go on a server and sound like Darth Vader and say " Luke I am your father." or sound like schwarzenegger and say, " I'll be back." I can because that is something I could never do for real.

Have regular voice chat on the other servers. I can see how gender does matter from a female perspective. To have a guy pretend to be a girl and "invade" our inner circles is not only intrusive, it is insulting. Girls ARE different than guys. We tell each other everything. We talk about things with each each other we never would with men and men should not be coming in to spy on us!

Men are not allowed in womens restrooms, and they should not be allowed in our " girl" talk. They can go have their own conversations with the boys, and allow us our space as well. Men should not be disguising themselvesas females to sneak up on us. Men should not be disguising themselves as women to give us a bad reputation by fondling their pixels, scamming sad lonely men, or to " trick" someone. No, That is just not right. I think not only should voice chat be implemented in regular gaming, but cams as well.

My guild used cam or in person interviews for recruits only. This was a good practice because you can really determine their personality and get to know a person prior to allowing their character into the guild.

Really?  Honestly?  As I've stated here, I'm a 30 year old married male who has never played a female character.

I don't care at all if some guy wants to impersonate a woman in guild chat.  I treat men and women the same in MMOs, as I think it should be.  

As for you saying men should not be allowed to "trick" someone - I agree.  Neither should women.  But sad, lonely people seem to always find a way to be tricked and manipulated in this life, one way or another.  Might as well be online where minimal damage can be done...

(That was tongue in cheek for those who don't get my sense of humor.)

Really what? What exactly are you addressing?
 

You just proved my point that Men are different than women. Men do not care if the person they are talking to is a male or female, but alot of women do. Women talk to women different than they do men. Women usually have their guard up around men, and discuss more personal issues among women. To have a man try to impersonate us and breach the  "gender barrier" by thinking they have a right to be included in conversations they know nothing about is just messed up. When men know what it is like to have a period, have their feet hurting from dancing in heels all night, and break out into hives from a Mary Kay makeover party they can then be invited to join our conversations, but as themselves, not as a female impersonater.

Let me guess - you're really young.  When you're over the age of 30 you'll find that men and women don't really keep their "guard up" like that.  I have male and female friends I talk to about everything.

So does my wife.

My wife doesn't care if men come in to her "female" conversations.  (I actually read this post to her and she just laughed, asking, "How old is the poster of that?")

When you graduate from school, these things matter much less.  And really, how many men do you think are making girl characters so they can listen in on girl talk?  Do you personally know of any?  I sure as Hell don't.

If you're a man who wants to impersonate a woman so you can listen to a woman talk about retaining water, um, buddy, more power to ya...  I've never met a guy like that in my life.

Honestly...I think it all comes down to is....

Who cares?

I get all sides of this argument.  There are those who simply just say there are more important things to worry about in the world.  Then there are the others who hate being afraid to reach out and cyber-touch someone because of this.  Then there are the girls (I say girls specifically, because this should be no issue with any adult woman) who enjoy all of the fame, attention, and whatnot their 'unicorn' status brings online, and deeply resent 'impostors' horning in on their fun.  I think all sides have their merits and no one of them are wrong or right, because they are all just subjective facets of the same diamond.

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by svann

I think a lot of the hostility comes from the knowledge that many people play female toons to get free stuff.  And dont play ignorant, you all know what Im talking about.  Some will say if you fall for that you deserve to be taken advantage of.  I disagree.  The fact that someone is foolish enough to be defrauded (and that is what it is, a fraud) does not excuse the fraud. 

 

Oh, I don't know.  It might people to stop treating others on things like their gender in an MMO.  I know my wife would appreciate having a "male" voice filter so she stops getting unwanted flirtation.  Let everyone always wonder who that person really is behind the screen...  or insist on webcam gaming for yourself because obviously, you are using your MMO as a dating site, which is kind of sad.

 

I have no idea where you got that from what I wrote.  Maybe you need some help?

 

That seemed pretty clear to me.  If you can't follow the logical progression of thought there, I can't really help you.

I love these forums.  State a different opinion or a reason why the defrauded might actually, in fact, deserve it - and you "need help" - ah, internets.

Well perhaps you misunderstood me.  I dont date avatars.  I just offered an explanation about why so many have hostility.

 Yes.  And I responded telling you why that might not be such a bad idea; despite the hostility.  Even if you don't have this issue, obviously, it's a huge problem for some others.

;)

Originally posted by Justarius1

 Yes.  And I responded telling you why that might not be such a bad idea; despite the hostility.  Even if you don't have this issue, obviously, it's a huge problem for some others.

 

;)

No, you responded by accusing me of using my MMO as a dating site.  Which is why I asked where you got such an idiot idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNyg1ftMIU

Originally posted by svann

Originally posted by Justarius1

 Yes.  And I responded telling you why that might not be such a bad idea; despite the hostility.  Even if you don't have this issue, obviously, it's a huge problem for some others.

 

;)

 

No, you responded by accusing me of using my MMO as a dating site.  Which is why I asked where you got such an idiot idea.

I did not accuse you, personally, of anything.  Calm down.

Thanks for the link, Z. I just read through this whole damn thread and had that song just crying out to be played. The joke I saw earlier, "When I get the inevitable 'a/s/l' whisper, I reply with '62/transvestite/behind you'," was hilarious... was that one you too?

I think those that summerized it down to people who are young and immature being the ones who are freaked out by this is correct. Once you're no longer inexperienced and battered about by the tempests of your hormones you stop giving a rat's ass about if the player behind a toon is a male or a female.

Are there some biological males who play women and who will use this tool to impersonate women? Yes. Does this matter? No. Those individuals can have motives ranging anywhere from malicious to curious. Some may even be using it to explore their own gender identity. So be it.

More and more I think parents and schools are failing miserably to educate children on internet safety. Not surprising, since internet savvy parents and educators are not exactly a common resource.

Hiding who you are "IRL" is SMART. The less real life information you give out on MMOs and on the internet in general the safer you are. Answering "no comment" or just staying silent, as others said lets the questioner guess the answer. I mean really, it's only a 50/50 for the most part... as intersexed people are exceedinly rare and most who would be old enough to play in an MMO at this time would have had their genitals altered shortly after birth due to medical practices at the time.

Some people go by the "assume everyone is a man" but I go a step further. I just "know they are a person" and I don't give a shit if they're male, female, intersexed, transgender. Hell, the player could be a sentient AI or a genetically engineered cyborg Rottweiler for all I care! If they are polite, can hold a conversation, and do their 'job'... nothing else matters.

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by deviliscious

When men know what it is like to have a period,

I once was so bloated and constipated that when I finally took a dump my ass felt as big as the Brooklyn Tunnel. So not only do i know what a period feels like, I have also experienced birth.

have their feet hurting from dancing in heels all night,

Try wearing cowboy boots as a main piece of footwear, one night in heels ain't shit.

 and break out into hives from a Mary Kay makeover party

 I once used my ( now ex) wife's Nair on my face to attempt to get out of having to shave.

they can then be invited to join our conversations, but as themselves, not as a female impersonater.

I'd make an ugly woman, so thanks for the invitation, you won't regret it.

 

ROFLMAO!  Good to see you 'round these parts! I was wondering what happened when I saw you disappeared.
 

Originally posted by Zorvan01

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urNyg1ftMIU

I almost posted this link before I clicked on yours! LMAO
 

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by deviliscious

I can see both sides of this. I do not think voice changers should be used for general gaming. Instead, have a strictly RP sever that has voice changers so that everyone playing knows if your on that server that is the case.  That way, it is expected, and if I want to go on a server and sound like Darth Vader and say " Luke I am your father." or sound like schwarzenegger and say, " I'll be back." I can because that is something I could never do for real.

Have regular voice chat on the other servers. I can see how gender does matter from a female perspective. To have a guy pretend to be a girl and "invade" our inner circles is not only intrusive, it is insulting. Girls ARE different than guys. We tell each other everything. We talk about things with each each other we never would with men and men should not be coming in to spy on us!

Men are not allowed in womens restrooms, and they should not be allowed in our " girl" talk. They can go have their own conversations with the boys, and allow us our space as well. Men should not be disguising themselvesas females to sneak up on us. Men should not be disguising themselves as women to give us a bad reputation by fondling their pixels, scamming sad lonely men, or to " trick" someone. No, That is just not right. I think not only should voice chat be implemented in regular gaming, but cams as well.

My guild used cam or in person interviews for recruits only. This was a good practice because you can really determine their personality and get to know a person prior to allowing their character into the guild.

Really?  Honestly?  As I've stated here, I'm a 30 year old married male who has never played a female character.

I don't care at all if some guy wants to impersonate a woman in guild chat.  I treat men and women the same in MMOs, as I think it should be.  

As for you saying men should not be allowed to "trick" someone - I agree.  Neither should women.  But sad, lonely people seem to always find a way to be tricked and manipulated in this life, one way or another.  Might as well be online where minimal damage can be done...

(That was tongue in cheek for those who don't get my sense of humor.)

Really what? What exactly are you addressing?
 

You just proved my point that Men are different than women. Men do not care if the person they are talking to is a male or female, but alot of women do. Women talk to women different than they do men. Women usually have their guard up around men, and discuss more personal issues among women. To have a man try to impersonate us and breach the  "gender barrier" by thinking they have a right to be included in conversations they know nothing about is just messed up. When men know what it is like to have a period, have their feet hurting from dancing in heels all night, and break out into hives from a Mary Kay makeover party they can then be invited to join our conversations, but as themselves, not as a female impersonater.

 

Let me guess - you're really young.  When you're over the age of 30 you'll find that men and women don't really keep their "guard up" like that.  I have male and female friends I talk to about everything.

So does my wife.

My wife doesn't care if men come in to her "female" conversations.  (I actually read this post to her and she just laughed, asking, "How old is the poster of that?")

When you graduate from school, these things matter much less.  And really, how many men do you think are making girl characters so they can listen in on girl talk?  Do you personally know of any?  I sure as Hell don't.

If you're a man who wants to impersonate a woman so you can listen to a woman talk about retaining water, um, buddy, more power to ya...  I've never met a guy like that in my life.

I guess it depends on the woman.  I have been out of schoolfor quite some time. LOL. I still hang out with my girlfriends, we still keep secrets from the men, as does my Mother, and Grandmother as well.  Maybe it is just how some of us were raised.  And yes, I have known a few guys that pretended to be girls just to find out what was going on. When I first started playing MMO's , we had a "Female only guild". Guys often tried to pretend to be girls to get in and it was so sad when they were busted. Usually they would slip up somewhere, besides they couldn't pull it off at a real guild party.

I guess the core difference is not whether or not someone is using the game as a dating site, or their age,but rather whether or not they separate game from the rest of their life. Some do, some don;t. When you actually hang out and do things for real with guild mates it is different than just some anonomous person online. Having gone fishing, had parties, gone clubbing, gone to concerts, gone shopping, gone to the movies ( all as friends) with guild members it puts things in a different light. The world is a small place, I do not believe in " make believe". Some people treat players as strangers, some treat them as friends, there is a difference.

LOL Well of course men tried to sneak into a "women only" guild. It is human nature to try and gain access to anything we're barred to. It isn't like a ladies rest room where they could potentially see your genitals. That is the same as how men are up in arms about the women-only travel agency in Australia.

Really, if there was a "mens club" guild women would try to sneak in as well. Wasn't this very idea touched upon during a Family Guy episode?

One thing I have to wonder, in your Women's Guild... who would you accept? A Female to Male transexual: who has shared your womanly experiences of menstruation and possibly childbirth but who now looks/sounds/acts totally male... or a Male to Female transexual who looks and sounds female, tot he point where you'd have to check deep inside to confirm a lack of uterus... but who has never had nor ever will menstruate nor have children?

Are either of these parties welcome? Why or why not? How far in your questioning is valid to go in order to "verify" your members? These people exist and some of them play MMO games, so do individuals who are just at the start of transitions... some of whom you'd bar entry from a Ladies group because they're "men" but who may have wanted to paricipate online because they cannot afford to start their transition yet (too poor or young and living in a fundimentalist house).

In some ways I think it is sad that people both fixate on gender and self-segregate by it. The world is more complicated than "man and woman", and barring people entry or fixating on needing a hard male/female lable to apply on people seems to limit our abilities to get to know one another as individuals. We pre-judge people's motives, "eww a man is eaves dropping on girl stuff, he's a pervert/weirdo/whatever," without bothering to find out why they're interested in taking part in all our reindeer games.

We lose opportunities to learn by acting like that.

Originally posted by Midare

LOL Well of course men tried to sneak into a "women only" guild. It is human nature to try and gain access to anything we're barred to. It isn't like a ladies rest room where they could potentially see your genitals. That is the same as how men are up in arms about the women-only travel agency in Australia.

 

Really, if there was a "mens club" guild women would try to sneak in as well. Wasn't this very idea touched upon during a Family Guy episode?

 

One thing I have to wonder, in your Women's Guild... who would you accept? A Female to Male transexual: who has shared your womanly experiences of menstruation and possibly childbirth but who now looks/sounds/acts totally male... or a Male to Female transexual who looks and sounds female, tot he point where you'd have to check deep inside to confirm a lack of uterus... but who has never had nor ever will menstruate nor have children?

 

Are either of these parties welcome? Why or why not? How far in your questioning is valid to go in order to "verify" your members? These people exist and some of them play MMO games, so do individuals who are just at the start of transitions... some of whom you'd bar entry from a Ladies group because they're "men" but who may have wanted to paricipate online because they cannot afford to start their transition yet (too poor or young and living in a fundimentalist house).

 

In some ways I think it is sad that people both fixate on gender and self-segregate by it. The world is more complicated than "man and woman", and barring people entry or fixating on needing a hard male/female lable to apply on people seems to limit our abilities to get to know one another as individuals. We pre-judge people's motives, "eww a man is eaves dropping on girl stuff, he's a pervert/weirdo/whatever," without bothering to find out why they're interested in taking part in all our reindeer games.

We lose opportunities to learn by acting like that.

Well Rudolph, Personality was the most important thing taken into consideration for membership. We did not allow people that were over emotional, bi polar, emo, or had gender confusion into our guild. Not because we hated them, but because they would not be able to "hang" with our personalities well. Sorry, but the women in our guild pretty much looked at " manic depression" as an excuse for copping out and being lame.  Yes, you may think that mean, but if you can't handle the heat get out of the kitchen! We just didn't have time for that nonsense. And yes, women ARE meaner than men.

Originally posted by PizziJQ

There is a point of playing RP in a game but i am Judge for being female because someone plays a female toon and does not make it clear to the world he is not female... there for whenever i say im female im seen a liar this is not fair to me ... or any  other true female that plays video games

Many people think my characters 'look gay' and conclude that I'm gay. If I decide to assert that I'm not, people demand proof, and more often than not are dissatisfied with it.

When I was around 13 and people saw my posts or heard my voice, many people insisted that I sounded and typed like a 30-year-old professor, declaring that a 13-year-old could not possibly type with proper spelling and grammar or speak with a fully developed voice. This led to people thinking that I was going about claiming to be younger in order to hook up with kids, so you can imagine where that led.

When people see my YouTube videos, I'm either gay or a virgin (or British, which is the strangest to me). Evidence to the contrary never withstanding.

Many people are ignorant assholes. That's their problem, not yours, and not the male playing a female character.

The easy solution is to only have voice changers available on RP only servers.  Have a disclaimer and titled server explaining it. That way EVERYONE in game knows that if your on that server no one is who they claim to be. Pretty simple. The rest of the servers can have regular voice chat and cams for the REAL people. win-win situation.

Has anyone ever tried even the most state-of-the-art voice changers? They are not convincing, in my experience. I can't imagine any serious confusion being a problem for a few years to come.

And when it does occur, why care?