Aside from Asheron's Call I mean.  I will use it to provide an example for what I mean.  In Asheron's Call the world changed quite a bit, and I don't mean new areas were added to grind, I mean existing areas changed and updated.  Arwic was a town in Asheron's Call.  It went through several changes, it started as a small quiet open town, and eventually it was destroyed by invading shadow spires, and left an empty smoldering crater, and then it started to get rebuilt over time next to the crater up until it was a fully completed walled in town.  These obviously didn't happen real time (game was released in 99), but with each patch the changes came.  That was just one small example from the game.  The environment changed too, like one month this big demon guy Bael'Zharon got released onto the world and the rivers and ocean turned red, and during the winter the landscape was covered with snow.  Are there any games out there with anything like this? or were there in the past?

Fallen Earth is the only one I can think of that's similiar.

Originally posted by TheHatter

Fallen Earth is the only one I can think of that's similiar.

Has that even been out long enough for the world to change? :O  It's a real shame, the only settings I hate for games are steampunk and post apocalyptic.

Not  that i can remember. However I will say that sounds alot like what they are trying to introduce in WOW with the next expansion.

And before I get flamed No I don't play WoW.

Void

Originally posted by TheHatter

Fallen Earth is the only one I can think of that's similiar.

 

Originally posted by voidchaser

And before I get flamed No I don't play WoW.

Yeah, I'm playing FE and I was wondering if you could explain that further?

And Void, why does it matter if you do play WoW? I play WoW, hell why not, its a decent-enough game for the most part. :P

And to the OP. If I had to choose a game that "changed" over time, I would have to say Ryzom fits the bill. It has a tendency to change.

Well, they were promising more events and they do have the mechanics to do anything they want to the game built in. I didn't play Alpha, but there was a gun in Alpha where you could dig holes, but they took it out because it was OP.

They also built the game around a lvl cap of 150, when they launched with a level cap of 45 and they were saying that they already had S4 and S5 done, but weren't going to release it for at least a few months. Each sector planned, will add 15 lvls to the cap.

Since it's a one world game and the devs love their game and have absolute god power over it, that's why I said it's the only thing similar.They were also PROMISING player housing. One of the GMs is was a dev for SWG and the screaming for player housing was very very strong on the forums and I think the devs really saw that as a need that had to be done.

No it's a shame because they all seem to add new areas and never seem to add content in the existing world.

SWG and EVE are the only games I can think where the actual world or space changes over time. SWG only changes because of player cities and housing and any new content added onto the existing planets. EVE changes because the players control the space but Empire never changes and the objects in space never really change. 

Well Ryzom has seasonal changes which are nice.  Dark and light had seasons also, water froze and you could walk on it, snow that built up on the ground from blizzards, then melt in the spring.   I dont recall a game that if you blew up something it was blown up for everyone ( if thats what your looking for).

In a word, no.

There are a couple of browser based games that come close, but I have not played them, so I cannot comment on them.

There is one service that does feature a constantly changing and eveolving world.  It is Second Life.

While not a MMO in the true sense, it is a great illustration of an evolving world, and the epic challenges that such content brings to a game's Dev team. 

95% of all content in SL is "player" driven.  What the players make ranges from houses, malls, clubs to fantasy, sci-fi, and post apocalyptic worlds full of dungeons, forests, wastelands ships repleat with combat, RP, treasure finding and exploration.

Sims based on a variety of themes made by players rise out of nowhere and even become major hang outs and hubs of activity, just as the Sandbox MMO supporters say will happen.  Old sims fade while new content is made.

Sounds great doesn't it?  There is a hitch, however.  Nothing lasts.  For whatever the reasons: boredom, not paying for land, moving on, etc, folks move on and the once thriving area dies. This creates a world full of abandoned landscapes with massive ghosttowns of old malls, houses and non sensical random crap lying around. 

What no one ever counts on is, "What happens when the players who are driving the content stops playing?" 

In SL's case, it means an ever expanding world with a core of  trashed, empty sims as the areas of activity grow ever outward like bread mold.  To try to fight this, unsuccessfully,  Linden Lab's answer is to sell such places as advertising space for RL companies, a luxury a true MMO would not have.

Player generated content and world affecting play is a great idea, but I think for it to be successfully done, such content would have to be managed diligently by the Devs to ensure it stays fresh, and to pick up the slack when the population shrinks or moves on to a different part of the game world.

That would be a tall order for any Dev team.

Originally posted by TheHatter

Well, they were promising more events and they do have the mechanics to do anything they want to the game built in. I didn't play Alpha, but there was a gun in Alpha where you could dig holes, but they took it out because it was OP.

They also built the game around a lvl cap of 150, when they launched with a level cap of 45 and they were saying that they already had S4 and S5 done, but weren't going to release it for at least a few months. Each sector planned, will add 15 lvls to the cap.

Since it's a one world game and the devs love their game and have absolute god power over it, that's why I said it's the only thing similar.They were also PROMISING player housing. One of the GMs is was a dev for SWG and the screaming for player housing was very very strong on the forums and I think the devs really saw that as a need that had to be done.

I'm not really asking about new zones, I'm asking about the existing areas changing through the course of the game, and even new content being added to existing areas.

Originally posted by Varny

No it's a shame because they all seem to add new areas and never seem to add content in the existing world.

SWG and EVE are the only games I can think where the actual world or space changes over time. SWG only changes because of player cities and housing and any new content added onto the existing planets. EVE changes because the players control the space but Empire never changes and the objects in space never really change. 

This, SWG before SOE destroyed it, and eve in 0.0.

I know for a fact that Saga of Ryzom has one of unique MMORPG out there with an ever-evolving world.

"A UNIQUE MMORPG UNIVERSE

Planet Atys is not only an MMORPG but also a living, virtual world, with five rich and diverse ecosystems. A powerful AI technology makes flora and fauna interact dynamically with each other and the ever-changing environment. .

A Lush and unique RPG Living Ecosystem

Known as the Living Planet, Atys doesn't behave quite like any world you've experienced in any other MMORPG. To start with, Atys is growing, slowly sending tendrils out which can unveil new lands and cover up existing ones. Due to this constant growth, the climate and weather on the surface can vary greatly, even in a short time span.
The Behaviour of the Creatures is unique to our MMORPG

The creatures in our MMORPG behave intelligently

In our MMORPG each creature has its own set of behaviours, and natural enemies. Wild gingos travel in small packs, willing to attack anything they think they can kill for food. The more docile bodoc travels in herds, but fiercely come to each others defence should they be attacked. Some creatures will migrate naturally; others will prefer to remain in the same general area.

The Seasons & weather change in our MMORPG

The seasons in our MMORPG change naturally, altering not only the landscape of Atys but also the resources available to harvesters and the behaviour of the creatures that live there. In our MMORPG the changing weather can also alter these things, from raging snowstorms in the forest to thunderous storms in the jungle everything change perpetually."

Ultima Online changed a lot due to housing, player ran towns with shops etc.  Every now and then the devs would destroy a place in the woods.  The way housing worked though kind of made the world dynamic.  Not exactly what you're looking for I know but it's what came to mind.

Horizons. They had one of the best crafting systems I have ever seen to date in a game. There were areas in the game that could not be reached unless people worked and made them accessable. Give you just one example. An island with lots of resources for harvesting but no one was able to reach it till a bridge was built. These world craftings took a lot of resources but anyone could contribute. You clicked on the item being built and were able to see what was needed for it to be finished and can then give items needed. Some of these items may be raw materials but normally it was crafted items.  Also there were a couple of player races that had events to be able to unlock them and make them playable. 

The main problem with this game was the leveling. The crafting was awsome (I know it is normally reveresed great gameplay sucky crafting) but the open class sytem made grouping unneeded. People would be able to gain levels in any class as they wanted. So take a couple levels of cleric and you no longer needed a dedicated healer in your group, infact you were your own healer/tank/dps with the right class combos. This is what ultimately killed the game imo.

Originally posted by Korhindi

In a word, no.

There are a couple of browser based games that come close, but I have not played them, so I cannot comment on them.

There is one service that does feature a constantly changing and eveolving world.  It is Second Life.

While not a MMO in the true sense, it is a great illustration of an evolving world, and the epic challenges that such content brings to a game's Dev team. 

95% of all content in SL is "player" driven.  What the players make ranges from houses, malls, clubs to fantasy, sci-fi, and post apocalyptic worlds full of dungeons, forests, wastelands ships repleat with combat, RP, treasure finding and exploration.

Sims based on a variety of themes made by players rise out of nowhere and even become major hang outs and hubs of activity, just as the Sandbox MMO supporters say will happen.  Old sims fade while new content is made.

Sounds great doesn't it?  There is a hitch, however.  Nothing lasts.  For whatever the reasons: boredom, not paying for land, moving on, etc, folks move on and the once thriving area dies. This creates a world full of abandoned landscapes with massive ghosttowns of old malls, houses and non sensical random crap lying around. 

What no one ever counts on is, "What happens when the players who are driving the content stops playing?" 

In SL's case, it means an ever expanding world with a core of  trashed, empty sims as the areas of activity grow ever outward like bread mold.  To try to fight this, unsuccessfully,  Linden Lab's answer is to sell such places as advertising space for RL companies, a luxury a true MMO would not have.

Player generated content and world affecting play is a great idea, but I think for it to be successfully done, such content would have to be managed diligently by the Devs to ensure it stays fresh, and to pick up the slack when the population shrinks or moves on to a different part of the game world.

That would be a tall order for any Dev team.

The Asheron's Call stuff I mentioned wasn't player driven at all, it was all laid out in advance by the developers, and over time they made it come to fruition through changes to the game world and storyline events.  The problem with SL btw is that it has no theme, it's just a loose collection of unrelated crap held together by an online world.  I think for a world to be living and breathing it needs to have some semblance of order and relation.  and I don't think the developers doing this stuff is too much to ask.  Asheron's Call had a mere 150k subscribers at its peak, I don't see why such a thing wouldn't be possible with millions.

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by TheHatter

Well, they were promising more events and they do have the mechanics to do anything they want to the game built in. I didn't play Alpha, but there was a gun in Alpha where you could dig holes, but they took it out because it was OP.

They also built the game around a lvl cap of 150, when they launched with a level cap of 45 and they were saying that they already had S4 and S5 done, but weren't going to release it for at least a few months. Each sector planned, will add 15 lvls to the cap.

Since it's a one world game and the devs love their game and have absolute god power over it, that's why I said it's the only thing similar.They were also PROMISING player housing. One of the GMs is was a dev for SWG and the screaming for player housing was very very strong on the forums and I think the devs really saw that as a need that had to be done.

I'm not really asking about new zones, I'm asking about the existing areas changing through the course of the game, and even new content being added to existing areas.

Ah ok. Yeah, Fallen Earth is probably still the closest to that other than WoW.

I know what you mean, and technically those places already exist in FE..... you'll just die trying to get to them. lol

Originally posted by Fyronova

 

 

I know for a fact that Saga of Ryzom has one of unique MMORPG out there with an ever-evolving world.

 

"A UNIQUE MMORPG UNIVERSE

Planet Atys is not only an MMORPG but also a living, virtual world, with five rich and diverse ecosystems. A powerful AI technology makes flora and fauna interact dynamically with each other and the ever-changing environment. .

A Lush and unique RPG Living Ecosystem

Known as the Living Planet, Atys doesn't behave quite like any world you've experienced in any other MMORPG. To start with, Atys is growing, slowly sending tendrils out which can unveil new lands and cover up existing ones. Due to this constant growth, the climate and weather on the surface can vary greatly, even in a short time span.
The Behaviour of the Creatures is unique to our MMORPG

The creatures in our MMORPG behave intelligently

In our MMORPG each creature has its own set of behaviours, and natural enemies. Wild gingos travel in small packs, willing to attack anything they think they can kill for food. The more docile bodoc travels in herds, but fiercely come to each others defence should they be attacked. Some creatures will migrate naturally; others will prefer to remain in the same general area.

The Seasons & weather change in our MMORPG

The seasons in our MMORPG change naturally, altering not only the landscape of Atys but also the resources available to harvesters and the behaviour of the creatures that live there. In our MMORPG the changing weather can also alter these things, from raging snowstorms in the forest to thunderous storms in the jungle everything change perpetually."

 

 

I tried the trial of Ryzom, and they make these sound a lot cooler than they are.  The creatures in Ryzom behave just as retarded as the ones in WoW. :P  Didn't bother to stick around for the seasons/weather change due to the dull repetitive nature of the game mechanics.

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by Korhindi

In a word, no.

There are a couple of browser based games that come close, but I have not played them, so I cannot comment on them.

There is one service that does feature a constantly changing and eveolving world.  It is Second Life.

While not a MMO in the true sense, it is a great illustration of an evolving world, and the epic challenges that such content brings to a game's Dev team. 

95% of all content in SL is "player" driven.  What the players make ranges from houses, malls, clubs to fantasy, sci-fi, and post apocalyptic worlds full of dungeons, forests, wastelands ships repleat with combat, RP, treasure finding and exploration.

Sims based on a variety of themes made by players rise out of nowhere and even become major hang outs and hubs of activity, just as the Sandbox MMO supporters say will happen.  Old sims fade while new content is made.

Sounds great doesn't it?  There is a hitch, however.  Nothing lasts.  For whatever the reasons: boredom, not paying for land, moving on, etc, folks move on and the once thriving area dies. This creates a world full of abandoned landscapes with massive ghosttowns of old malls, houses and non sensical random crap lying around. 

What no one ever counts on is, "What happens when the players who are driving the content stops playing?" 

In SL's case, it means an ever expanding world with a core of  trashed, empty sims as the areas of activity grow ever outward like bread mold.  To try to fight this, unsuccessfully,  Linden Lab's answer is to sell such places as advertising space for RL companies, a luxury a true MMO would not have.

Player generated content and world affecting play is a great idea, but I think for it to be successfully done, such content would have to be managed diligently by the Devs to ensure it stays fresh, and to pick up the slack when the population shrinks or moves on to a different part of the game world.

That would be a tall order for any Dev team.

The Asheron's Call stuff I mentioned wasn't player driven at all, it was all laid out in advance by the developers, and over time they made it come to fruition through changes to the game world and storyline events.  The problem with SL btw is that it has no theme, it's just a loose collection of unrelated crap held together by an online world.  I think for a world to be living and breathing it needs to have some semblance of order and relation.  and I don't think the developers doing this stuff is too much to ask.  Asheron's Call had a mere 150k subscribers at its peak, I don't see why such a thing wouldn't be possible with millions.

Yes, exactly.

As you said, SL has no theme, whereas AC was guided.

It also ran up the cost of the game's operating costs and was a factor in its closure.

I agree with you, I think it can be done.  I mention SL because much can be learned from it-- both the successes and the failures.  That, and SL is still around and AC is not, sadly.

Originally posted by Korhindi

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by Korhindi

In a word, no.

There are a couple of browser based games that come close, but I have not played them, so I cannot comment on them.

There is one service that does feature a constantly changing and eveolving world.  It is Second Life.

While not a MMO in the true sense, it is a great illustration of an evolving world, and the epic challenges that such content brings to a game's Dev team. 

95% of all content in SL is "player" driven.  What the players make ranges from houses, malls, clubs to fantasy, sci-fi, and post apocalyptic worlds full of dungeons, forests, wastelands ships repleat with combat, RP, treasure finding and exploration.

Sims based on a variety of themes made by players rise out of nowhere and even become major hang outs and hubs of activity, just as the Sandbox MMO supporters say will happen.  Old sims fade while new content is made.

Sounds great doesn't it?  There is a hitch, however.  Nothing lasts.  For whatever the reasons: boredom, not paying for land, moving on, etc, folks move on and the once thriving area dies. This creates a world full of abandoned landscapes with massive ghosttowns of old malls, houses and non sensical random crap lying around. 

What no one ever counts on is, "What happens when the players who are driving the content stops playing?" 

In SL's case, it means an ever expanding world with a core of  trashed, empty sims as the areas of activity grow ever outward like bread mold.  To try to fight this, unsuccessfully,  Linden Lab's answer is to sell such places as advertising space for RL companies, a luxury a true MMO would not have.

Player generated content and world affecting play is a great idea, but I think for it to be successfully done, such content would have to be managed diligently by the Devs to ensure it stays fresh, and to pick up the slack when the population shrinks or moves on to a different part of the game world.

That would be a tall order for any Dev team.

The Asheron's Call stuff I mentioned wasn't player driven at all, it was all laid out in advance by the developers, and over time they made it come to fruition through changes to the game world and storyline events.  The problem with SL btw is that it has no theme, it's just a loose collection of unrelated crap held together by an online world.  I think for a world to be living and breathing it needs to have some semblance of order and relation.  and I don't think the developers doing this stuff is too much to ask.  Asheron's Call had a mere 150k subscribers at its peak, I don't see why such a thing wouldn't be possible with millions.

 

Yes, exactly.

As you said, SL has no theme, whereas AC was guided.

It also ran up the cost of the game's operating costs and was a factor in its closure.

I agree with you, I think it can be done.  I mention SL because much can be leanred from it-- both the successes and the failures.  That, and SL is still around and AC is not, sadly.

Huh? Asheron's Call is still running, it's Asheron's Call 2 that shut down (and had none of the stuff I mentioned in the OP).

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by Korhindi

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by Korhindi

In a word, no.

There are a couple of browser based games that come close, but I have not played them, so I cannot comment on them.

There is one service that does feature a constantly changing and eveolving world.  It is Second Life.

While not a MMO in the true sense, it is a great illustration of an evolving world, and the epic challenges that such content brings to a game's Dev team. 

95% of all content in SL is "player" driven.  What the players make ranges from houses, malls, clubs to fantasy, sci-fi, and post apocalyptic worlds full of dungeons, forests, wastelands ships repleat with combat, RP, treasure finding and exploration.

Sims based on a variety of themes made by players rise out of nowhere and even become major hang outs and hubs of activity, just as the Sandbox MMO supporters say will happen.  Old sims fade while new content is made.

Sounds great doesn't it?  There is a hitch, however.  Nothing lasts.  For whatever the reasons: boredom, not paying for land, moving on, etc, folks move on and the once thriving area dies. This creates a world full of abandoned landscapes with massive ghosttowns of old malls, houses and non sensical random crap lying around. 

What no one ever counts on is, "What happens when the players who are driving the content stops playing?" 

In SL's case, it means an ever expanding world with a core of  trashed, empty sims as the areas of activity grow ever outward like bread mold.  To try to fight this, unsuccessfully,  Linden Lab's answer is to sell such places as advertising space for RL companies, a luxury a true MMO would not have.

Player generated content and world affecting play is a great idea, but I think for it to be successfully done, such content would have to be managed diligently by the Devs to ensure it stays fresh, and to pick up the slack when the population shrinks or moves on to a different part of the game world.

That would be a tall order for any Dev team.

The Asheron's Call stuff I mentioned wasn't player driven at all, it was all laid out in advance by the developers, and over time they made it come to fruition through changes to the game world and storyline events.  The problem with SL btw is that it has no theme, it's just a loose collection of unrelated crap held together by an online world.  I think for a world to be living and breathing it needs to have some semblance of order and relation.  and I don't think the developers doing this stuff is too much to ask.  Asheron's Call had a mere 150k subscribers at its peak, I don't see why such a thing wouldn't be possible with millions.

 

Yes, exactly.

As you said, SL has no theme, whereas AC was guided.

It also ran up the cost of the game's operating costs and was a factor in its closure.

I agree with you, I think it can be done.  I mention SL because much can be leanred from it-- both the successes and the failures.  That, and SL is still around and AC is not, sadly.

Huh? Asheron's Call is still running, it's Asheron's Call 2 that shut down (and had none of the stuff I mentioned in the OP).

Doh... my bad.

I thought it had shut down.