Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

 

X-fire doesn't count people who haven't played in 6 months. So give it up already.

 

 

Xfire doesn't count people who don't use it at all. Give it up already.

 

That doesn't even make sense. I know you have taken over as the most out of control fanboi here. But at least try to make sense in your posts.

 

Read it again sunshine, it could not possibly be more simplified. Notice how you're like the only one still bringing up crossfire?

This thread is about a better way. Why don't you want that? Hmmmm?

12/04/09

EU: = 11,553

NA: = 7,717

Total: = 19,270

Net difference since 11/18/2009: +614

Let's see how it goes a few weeks from now, once the expansion has been out long enough.

~Ripper

It in increasing rapidly I must say and while I didn't like the purpose of this thread at first, I must say that I have changed my view :þ

Pretty good way to prove DarkFall is doing well I guess. Though it will take a bit longer before we hit a stable 50k players. Hehe.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

It in increasing rapidly I must say and while I didn't like the purpose of this thread at first, I must say that I have changed my view :þ

Pretty good way to prove DarkFall is doing well I guess. Though it will take a bit longer before we hit a stable 50k players. Hehe.

I think you're reading a little too much into the figures.  There's a net increase by just over  600, which doesn't account for the fact that clan member's aren't purged from the lists automatically?  How many of those new clan members on NA were transfers from EU that are listed twice?  The only thing the number show is that the count is trending upwards - I certainly wouldn't say "increasing rapidly".  I wish they were, truly.  I'd love to see the count jump by thousands.  More players = more people to interact with and kill, which is pretty critical in a clan-centric, pvp-based game...

~Ripper

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

It in increasing rapidly I must say and while I didn't like the purpose of this thread at first, I must say that I have changed my view :þ

Pretty good way to prove DarkFall is doing well I guess. Though it will take a bit longer before we hit a stable 50k players. Hehe.

I think you're reading a little too much into the figures.  There's a net increase by just over  600, which doesn't account for the fact that clan member's aren't purged from the lists automatically?  How many of those new clan members on NA were transfers from EU that are listed twice?  The only thing the number show is that the count is trending upwards - I certainly wouldn't say "increasing rapidly".  I wish they were, truly.  I'd love to see the count jump by thousands.  More players = more people to interact with and kill, which is pretty critical in a clan-centric, pvp-based game...

~Ripper

Good analysis Rhinok.

We are a ways off of being able to say with any certainty what kind of trend this count has given us, but I think that most would say that 600 (+ or -) isn't enough movement to say much of anything yet... certainly not "rapidly".

To be sure it's much better that there is in fact a 600+ INCREASE vs. a decrease of an equal amount... it's still early in this endeavor, and too small of a movement to declare any sort of pattern.

I'll do the 4 sets of data points 7 days apart beginning this Sunday.  Once we have those, that will give us a good month and a half of data to look back on and see where it's at.  If it's still undecided at that point we can continue to monitor it for another 3-6 months and see where it goes.

As Rhinok pointed out above there is still much more "cleaning up" to be done, especially on the EU server.  Just a sampling of clans that are known to be incorrect on the EU server are:

Murder Herd.....................112

Lords of Death.................101

Kill Cult...............................60

Freehold............................58

DreadLords.......................50

The Vindicators.................44

Anyway, all these caveats were said in the OP.  We'll continue to post the numbers and see what they bring. 

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

 

X-fire is more reliable than this. Because the number of inactive players is going to keep rising as time goes on. So we really can't tell anything by these numbers.

 

 

No, this is more reliable to show actual numbers becuase more people have been in clans % wise than have ever used Xfire while playing DFO. 

 

X-fire doesn't count people who haven't played in 6 months. So give it up already.

 

 

Xfire doesn't count people who don't use it at all. Give it up already.

X-Fire statistics show the population growth trends. DF clan list shows how many people have tried/bought the game so far.

X-Fire statistic is useful - people can see whether the population is increasing or not.

DF statistic is usefull for a business, but it is useless for us. It only tells us that X number of people bought the game. People want to know how many players play the game NOW or the population trend. If DF clan list shows 20K as the total number of players that bought the game (currently subscribed and not), then the currently subscribed number can be anything between 1 and 20000. That's too ambiguous to be a valuable statistic.

Back to the X-Fire statistic. Yes, not all (or even many) players play DF and use X-Fire. But the trend remains true.

Lets assume that 10% of DF players use X-Fire;
Lets assume 10% of total DF population quits DF;
It is highly unlikely that all 10% do or do not use X-Fire;

Therefore the statistic remains true. If 10% DF pop leaves, but only 1% of those use X-Fire, then we will see a 1% drop in X-Fire pop.Its not an accurate number, but it consistent. With DF clan stats as they are now, the number almost always increases - more people join then people who aren't active getting deleted. The number is inconsistent.

Does that make any sense?

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

 

X-fire is more reliable than this. Because the number of inactive players is going to keep rising as time goes on. So we really can't tell anything by these numbers.

 

 

No, this is more reliable to show actual numbers becuase more people have been in clans % wise than have ever used Xfire while playing DFO. 

 

X-fire doesn't count people who haven't played in 6 months. So give it up already.

 

 

Xfire doesn't count people who don't use it at all. Give it up already.

 

X-Fire statistics show the population growth trends. DF clan list shows how many people have tried/bought the game so far.

X-Fire statistic is useful - people can see whether the population is increasing or not.

DF statistic is usefull for a business, but it is useless for us. It only tells us that X number of people bought the game. People want to know how many players play the game NOW or the population trend. If DF clan list shows 20K as the total number of players that bought the game (currently subscribed and not), then the currently subscribed number can be anything between 1 and 20000. That's too ambiguous to be a valuable statistic.

Back to the X-Fire statistic. Yes, not all (or even many) players play DF and use X-Fire. But the trend remains true.

Lets assume that 10% of DF players use X-Fire;
Lets assume 10% of total DF population quits DF;
It is highly unlikely that all 10% do or do not use X-Fire;

Therefore the statistic remains true. If 10% DF pop leaves, but only 1% of those use X-Fire, then we will see a 1% drop in X-Fire pop.Its not an accurate number, but it consistent. With DF clan stats as they are now, the number almost always increases - more people join then people who aren't active getting deleted. The number is inconsistent.

Does that make any sense?

What you said does make sense... but that is why we are doing a long-term analysis of the clan counts.

Meaning, tracking it for a couple months (or longer if necessary). 

The clan counts have been shown to move downward (for both servers) so over the long-haul the clan counts should give a more accurate trend analysis.

Give us another month or two, and we'll see how it goes.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

 

X-Fire statistics show the population growth trends. DF clan list shows how many people have tried/bought the game so far.

X-Fire statistic is useful - people can see whether the population is increasing or not.

DF statistic is usefull for a business, but it is useless for us. It only tells us that X number of people bought the game. People want to know how many players play the game NOW or the population trend. If DF clan list shows 20K as the total number of players that bought the game (currently subscribed and not), then the currently subscribed number can be anything between 1 and 20000. That's too ambiguous to be a valuable statistic.

Back to the X-Fire statistic. Yes, not all (or even many) players play DF and use X-Fire. But the trend remains true.

Lets assume that 10% of DF players use X-Fire;
Lets assume 10% of total DF population quits DF;
It is highly unlikely that all 10% do or do not use X-Fire;

Therefore the statistic remains true. If 10% DF pop leaves, but only 1% of those use X-Fire, then we will see a 1% drop in X-Fire pop.Its not an accurate number, but it consistent. With DF clan stats as they are now, the number almost always increases - more people join then people who aren't active getting deleted. The number is inconsistent.

Does that make any sense?

Other demographics have to be considered as well.

I would imagine that older gamers are less aware of X-fire and/or already using other systems they are familiar with. So with that, the forumula would work great IF and ONLY IF the demographics of all games considered are basically the same.

I submit however that this is not true. I would suggest the demographic of Halo is different than the demographic of DF as an example and I think the use of X0fire is different given different gamers and different styles.

I know I dont use xfire

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by jimmyman99

 

X-Fire statistics show the population growth trends. DF clan list shows how many people have tried/bought the game so far.

X-Fire statistic is useful - people can see whether the population is increasing or not.

DF statistic is usefull for a business, but it is useless for us. It only tells us that X number of people bought the game. People want to know how many players play the game NOW or the population trend. If DF clan list shows 20K as the total number of players that bought the game (currently subscribed and not), then the currently subscribed number can be anything between 1 and 20000. That's too ambiguous to be a valuable statistic.

Back to the X-Fire statistic. Yes, not all (or even many) players play DF and use X-Fire. But the trend remains true.

Lets assume that 10% of DF players use X-Fire;
Lets assume 10% of total DF population quits DF;
It is highly unlikely that all 10% do or do not use X-Fire;

Therefore the statistic remains true. If 10% DF pop leaves, but only 1% of those use X-Fire, then we will see a 1% drop in X-Fire pop.Its not an accurate number, but it consistent. With DF clan stats as they are now, the number almost always increases - more people join then people who aren't active getting deleted. The number is inconsistent.

Does that make any sense?

 

Other demographics have to be considered as well.

I would imagine that older gamers are less aware of X-fire and/or already using other systems they are familiar with. So with that, the forumula would work great IF and ONLY IF the demographics of all games considered are basically the same.

I submit however that this is not true. I would suggest the demographic of Halo is different than the demographic of DF as an example and I think the use of X0fire is different given different gamers and different styles.

I know I dont use xfire

It has also been mentioned by quite a few DarkFall players (both here and on the official forums) that X-Fire and DarkFall don't get along with each other very well.

So for some players that would normally use X-Fire; they choose to not use it in DarkFall's case.

All things considered, the clan count (over the long-term) should give a more accurate trend analysis of the population of DarkFall. 

To be sure, there is no method that is going to give an exact error-free picture... but I'm willing to devote a bit of time to this method and see how it turns out.  If it turns out to be a big waste of time... I can live with that. 

Xfire drops my FPS by 20, and on my crappy comp, that means the difference between hitting and not hitting a person, and in sieges don't even think about it.

Originally posted by rhinok

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

It in increasing rapidly I must say and while I didn't like the purpose of this thread at first, I must say that I have changed my view :þ

Pretty good way to prove DarkFall is doing well I guess. Though it will take a bit longer before we hit a stable 50k players. Hehe.

I think you're reading a little too much into the figures.  There's a net increase by just over  600, which doesn't account for the fact that clan member's aren't purged from the lists automatically?  How many of those new clan members on NA were transfers from EU that are listed twice?  The only thing the number show is that the count is trending upwards - I certainly wouldn't say "increasing rapidly".  I wish they were, truly.  I'd love to see the count jump by thousands.  More players = more people to interact with and kill, which is pretty critical in a clan-centric, pvp-based game...

~Ripper

I'm taking into account the numbers I personally see everyday which does not include the non-clan members. Just Clan NEW recruits 5-10 players a day and 15-20 on week-ends (17 on last saturday), it's a noticeable increase considering that this is only a small percentage. Beside, DarkFall is rapidly increasing when you take into account the total amount of players compared to previous months based on the total population. +600 players doesn't mean much for a game like Aion or WoW for obvious reasons but for a game that had such a horrible publicity for so long, you just can't ignore that  :þ

Update for 12/06/09:

EU: = 11,508 (Decrease of 1)

NA: = 7,747 (Increase of 435)*

Total: = 19,255 (Increase of 434)

* The website that provides the numbers these totals are figured from has added clans with only 1 member for the NA server count.  The EU server is still being reported with a minimum of 2 per clan.

df.urme.com/index.php 

darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php 

Originally posted by xzyax

Update for 12/06/09:

EU: = 11,508 (Decrease of 1)

NA: = 7,747 (Increase of 435)*

Total: = 19,255 (Increase of 434)

 

* The website that provides the numbers these totals are figured from has added clans with only 1 member for the NA server count.  The EU server is still being reported with a minimum of 2 per clan.

df.urme.com/index.php 

darkfallinfo.com/pmap/index.php 

 

 

Excpect the populations to incrase as the expac is tested, then drop off as people realize the game isn't anymore balanced than it was pre patch. Thanks for the numbers though.

Originally posted by jimmyman99

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by ghoul31

 

X-fire is more reliable than this. Because the number of inactive players is going to keep rising as time goes on. So we really can't tell anything by these numbers.

 

 

No, this is more reliable to show actual numbers becuase more people have been in clans % wise than have ever used Xfire while playing DFO. 

 

X-fire doesn't count people who haven't played in 6 months. So give it up already.

 

 

Xfire doesn't count people who don't use it at all. Give it up already.

 

X-Fire statistics show the population growth trends. DF clan list shows how many people have tried/bought the game so far.

X-Fire statistic is useful - people can see whether the population is increasing or not.

DF statistic is usefull for a business, but it is useless for us. It only tells us that X number of people bought the game. People want to know how many players play the game NOW or the population trend. If DF clan list shows 20K as the total number of players that bought the game (currently subscribed and not), then the currently subscribed number can be anything between 1 and 20000. That's too ambiguous to be a valuable statistic.

Back to the X-Fire statistic. Yes, not all (or even many) players play DF and use X-Fire. But the trend remains true.

Lets assume that 10% of DF players use X-Fire;
Lets assume 10% of total DF population quits DF;
It is highly unlikely that all 10% do or do not use X-Fire;

Therefore the statistic remains true. If 10% DF pop leaves, but only 1% of those use X-Fire, then we will see a 1% drop in X-Fire pop.Its not an accurate number, but it consistent. With DF clan stats as they are now, the number almost always increases - more people join then people who aren't active getting deleted. The number is inconsistent.

Does that make any sense?

I just wanted to point out that X-Fire statics in Darkfall's case are not worth even attempting to go off of. X-Fore and DF have some big fps issues when it comes to running both at the same time. You can lose between 20-60 fps by having them both running. I doubt there are many that run them both at the same time. Compared to other games where xfire doesnt cause a big fps drop and where twitch based combat doesnt happen. In DF you need every extra fps you can pull from the client since it is twitched based combat.

 I think the count should be much higher. Went back to human starter area today and the goblin spawns were fairly crowded with new folks. Gave out some random goodies to a couple. So new folks are picking it up vs a month ago when the starter areas were ghost towns.

The count is not really an accurate one.  Clan NEW for example has 260+ currently, and on that website it lists only 227.  When I joined they had 252 people, 2 days ago, so the website updated at least twice since then but somehow got the count right.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

 I think the count should be much higher. Went back to human starter area today and the goblin spawns were fairly crowded with new folks. Gave out some random goodies to a couple. So new folks are picking it up vs a month ago when the starter areas were ghost towns.

Actually without access to AV's own numbers you can't say that. I still have a lowbie on one account if I was to re-activate my account and if you saw me at the gobs you would say "oh another new player", how wrong you would be.

In any MMORPG when a patch is released (this is not an expansion BTW in any world except DnF's) people that previously subbed come back to see what has changed.

You have no idea who is new or who is a return. Yes the returns help the bottom line for a month but not in the long haul. 

Update for 12/13/09:

EU: = *11,904 (Increase of 396)
NA: = 7,757 (Increase of 10)
Total: = 19,661 (Increase of 406)
 

* The EU Server count added single player "clans", before it was a minimum of 2

Update for 12/21/09:

EU: = 11,983 (Increase of 79)
NA: = 8,395 (Increase of 638)
Total: = 20,378 (Increase of 717)

 

Originally posted by Thomas2006

I just wanted to point out that X-Fire statics in Darkfall's case are not worth even attempting to go off of. X-Fore and DF have some big fps issues when it comes to running both at the same time. You can lose between 20-60 fps by having them both running. I doubt there are many that run them both at the same time. Compared to other games where xfire doesnt cause a big fps drop and where twitch based combat doesnt happen. In DF you need every extra fps you can pull from the client since it is twitched based combat.

You have a valid point and I admit that X-Fire is far from perfect, but when considering 2 inaccurate methods, I would still pick X-Fire as more accurate. Why? Lets take the latest clan count

Update for 12/21/09:

EU: = 11,983 (Increase of 79)
NA: = 8,395 (Increase of 638)
Total: = 20,378 (Increase of 717)

There is an increase of 717 players. That could mean that zero people were kicked out of a clan and 717 were invited. Or that could mean that 5000 people were kicked out and 5717 were invited. I made the second pair huge just to illustrate that clan count doesn't really show us any trends. It may be used to show off a total number of people, but that statistic is also watered out, because a) inactive people are still being counted; b) active people not in a clan are not being counted;

As I said from the start, both methods are inaccurate, but the X-Fire method is closer to reality, because it has less variables that can throw off those numbers.

If we were to count the absolute number of DF players (or any other game as a matter of fact) then the formula would be:

A+B
where A is total number of players that play DF and do not use XFIRE and
B - total number of DF players that use X-Fire.

With clan count its:
(A-C)+(B-D)-E

A-total number of players in a clan;
B-total number of players not in clan;
C-total number of inactive players that are clanned;
D-total number of inactive players that are not in a clan;
E-total number of characters that were in a clan, but they deleted it and created a new one;

D in this formula is in question, it may or may not exist. But, logically speaking, the clan count includes inactive people, then this applies to unclanned count as well.
E is also in question, I'm not sure if its possible to do this - if I am in a clan and then I simply delete my toon and create a new one, does my old toon remain in the list?

Regardless whether D and/or E exists or not, the clan count formula is still at least 1 variable greater then X-Fire formula. Does that make any sense?