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11/16/09 5:51:52 PM#41
first off FAST TRAVEL is going to happen unless by sheer "sony like" ego the devs ignore players and the forces of nature. I and many players are totally against insta travel or "iceing" as this movement is far too fast though this is the devs lazy method to shut players up this is the most likely "afterthought" travel they will dump on players.
I have fully supported the "train" idea if not actually origionated it months back in beta though I sugested that they use a more low tech steam train using the traditional rails that are also seen around the zones, it has the potential to address the problem of stratigic travel without making things overly easy. It also has great potential as a public works project and focus as a plot device for many support and maintence and security quests . the overhead train is simply beyond our ability to repair and maintain such a system a steam train would be a chalange let alone an overhead electric monorail.
************* a few things still on my list...as ongoing failures for fallen earth. my bucket list of major issues.
I would have to say even though steam train and shotguns are important to me,, I would have to say the number 1 thing that needs to be addressed is the vehicle physics and travel. make a world, not a game, we dont want another game. |
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Euphoryk
Apprentice Member
Joined: 4/30/09
"A man must live by his principles. Who he is, not what he is." |
11/16/09 5:53:21 PM#42
Originally posted by reaperuk
Please read the entire thread, instead of just reading until you see a post you disagree with, then attempting to pick it apart. www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3216065 I'm a member of a very well known, large clan that has been around since the earliest phases of closed beta. We have an active involvement in nearly every facet of the game. Post Apoc Radio, Globaltech ATLAS and Wasteland News in particular. Insinuating that I am basing my initial statement on forum word of mouth and rhetoric alone couldn't be further from the truth. I am as active a member of the community as one can possibly be and have been for quite some time. We have had this discussion many a time ingame and over vent with clan members, allied clan members, random idlers who play and hang around our vent, clanless idlers who play and hang around our vent, etc... 95% of the time the outcome and majority opinion is that fast travel (if poorly implemented) is a bad idea. If executed correctly, then yes it could be beneficial, however if not correctly implemented it could prove to be disastrous. There is no shortage of people waiting to pounce all over any little mistake a company makes in this industry these days, especially a small indy studio like Icarus. I completely disagree with your observation as to why other mmorpg's have fast travel, there is a reason for it alright, people are impatient now thanks to certain other games within the genre embracing casual playstyles and ease of play/access. Anyone who was a SWG Vet (which I am not, just for the record, using it as an example), will tell you how they enjoyed waiting for shuttles, and how those extra periods where you were waiting opened up opportunities for added social interaction among players. Fast travel systems, in a game like FE especially where it is attempting to be a breath of fresh air, are not unique in any way, shape or form. All that aside, I made my opinion very clear on the matter with my responses on page 1. Had you taken the time to read them, you would realize my stance on the matter is not as black and white as you attempted to make it appear.
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11/16/09 5:55:26 PM#43
This is how I see the train system implemented
I think this kind of system wouldn't be game breaking, would keep immersion strong, and would alleviate some of the pains of travel. EDIT: After reading Euphoryks post above mine, I wanted to make something clear that I didn't mention The trains would run on a schedule, they wouldn't just be waiting for you. A train heading your way on the tracks showing up every 15 minutes to half hour would be reasonable. |
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11/16/09 5:57:39 PM#44
Originally posted by Euphoryk
The thing is, there is nothing unfeasible about it as it currently stands. I am involved with a 200+ member (active members, not just padding numbers here) clan that is very well known ingame and we constantly have high level or level capped players in all sectors, almost anytime of day. It`s just a matter of what you are willing to do on a personal level, many of us have no problem making the long journey back to the previous sectors. I find that it brings back a feeling of nostalgia from the original days of mmo gaming, as well allows me to plan and prepare for whatever I might be wanting to do during that particular playsession. Sure, it can get boring, but travel isn`t really intended to be some dramatic, exciting event.
I do agree that it doesn't have to be some dramatic, exciting event, however if I've got an hour to play, and it's going to take me half that to get from A to B to pvp with some friends for example, I'll probably not bother. I think you need to find a balance in there without making it to easy to get around. I think a train from a town in each sector could be a good solution. |
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11/16/09 5:58:42 PM#45
Originally posted by Czargio
yeah this is what i was thinking too,the world is massive in the game so a train system would be great. as long as its not some insta spawn crap thing, would be cool to be on a train walking around on it as it travels, look out the windows seeing the sites as well. |
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11/16/09 5:59:54 PM#46
Originally posted by SequenceLost
+1 !!!! I can see some of the points listed as to why fast travel could be beneficial but to take away the "exploration" aspect of FE would completely destroy that with which FE is all about.
a train would do nothing to stop exploration especially since you would probably have to visit each location and do a series of quests to get or maintain access and I really love the idea of players being able to improve their world not just be a static bug hunt like so many other MMOs. make a world, not a game, we dont want another game. |
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11/16/09 6:03:09 PM#47
I'm with the others on the monorail idea. Make it so that it has one stop in each sector, and is not instant but just a bit faster than the player vehicles. And don't make it instanced. I like the idea of each car taking several players and the train being this kind of mini social space. You could even shoot at mobs from the train :) Do all this, and it would feel not like tacked-on mechanics but like a convincing part of the persistant world. It'd be a plus in terms of immersion. (Hey, I'd even say take it through a PVP zone here and there so that players with sufficient range can shoot at you from outside the train, but then you'd have to actively defend and that'd defeat the whole purpose of an automated ride
EDIT: I also have to agree that putting the train on a schedule of no tighter than 15 minutes apart is a good idea. |
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11/16/09 7:24:27 PM#48
Originally posted by Euphoryk
Please read the entire thread, instead of just reading until you see a post you disagree with, then attempting to pick it apart. www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3216065 I'm a member of a very well known, large clan that has been around since the earliest phases of closed beta. We have an active involvement in nearly every facet of the game. Post Apoc Radio, Globaltech ATLAS and Wasteland News in particular. Insinuating that I am basing my initial statement on forum word of mouth and rhetoric alone couldn't be further from the truth. I am as active a member of the community as one can possibly be and have been for quite some time. We have had this discussion many a time ingame and over vent with clan members, allied clan members, random idlers who play and hang around our vent, clanless idlers who play and hang around our vent, etc... 95% of the time the outcome and majority opinion is that fast travel (if poorly implemented) is a bad idea. If executed correctly, then yes it could be beneficial, however if not correctly implemented it could prove to be disastrous. There is no shortage of people waiting to pounce all over any little mistake a company makes in this industry these days, especially a small indy studio like Icarus. I completely disagree with your observation as to why other mmorpg's have fast travel, there is a reason for it alright, people are impatient now thanks to certain other games within the genre embracing casual playstyles and ease of play/access. Anyone who was a SWG Vet (which I am not, just for the record, using it as an example), will tell you how they enjoyed waiting for shuttles, and how those extra periods where you were waiting opened up opportunities for added social interaction among players. Fast travel systems, in a game like FE especially where it is attempting to be a breath of fresh air, are not unique in any way, shape or form. All that aside, I made my opinion very clear on the matter with my responses on page 1. Had you taken the time to read them, you would realize my stance on the matter is not as black and white as you attempted to make it appear.
Well since you'd made six posts in this one thread I had to pick one post to reply to. That one pretty well sums up what you seem to be saying and that is you are part of a large clan, are an ex beta tester, you don't want any type of fast travel, everyone agrees with you and the rest of us should shut up. In the end I made a brief , three sentence comment, the gist of which was that I disagreed with you. Hardly picking your post apart. So I just thought I'd introduce a reality check for you. Anyone using the FE forums knows that there is a group of players who are ex beta testers and like to think they can lay down the law to the newer players. Anyone asking for respecs is shouted down, anyone asking for fast travel is shouted down. You say that the majority of people on the forums don't want fast travel. I say that the majority of the players, most of whom of course don't even post on the forums DO want some kind of fast travel. The devs have already said that there WILL be some form of fast travel so the subject of whether there should be fast travel at all is moot anyway. It's just a question of what form it will take and how extensive its availablity will be. If you'd have taken a leaf out of your own book and read a couple more posts before replying, you would also have seen that I AM a SWG vet and mentioned that something similar to that system where people waited together for a scheduled journey might be the answer. I also like the idea of trains but think it would take more resources to implement than would be available at this stage of the games life. |
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11/16/09 8:33:17 PM#49
I like the train idea like many others do, but I don't think it is something that is possible at this point and probably won't be implemented. What I would rather see are faster vehicles, new roads, and road bonuses. Everywhere i go there is only one type of road. What about highways? I think creating highways with actual exits giving users a speed boost would be a great way to get around instant travel. This might not be a possibility either though. I really hope they add more vehicles and different models though. Like in The Road Warrior I want to see some crazy pick up trucks, old buses, dune buggies, muscle cars, etc. |
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11/16/09 8:54:41 PM#50
I like the idea of rebuilding the train line to use as a fast travel system to a major town in each sector. Allowing players to participate in rebuilding it sounds great as it moves the game away from being a boring old static gameworld to something that is more realistic and involving. However if they can rebuild it then they should also be able to sabotage and destroy it. This would probably involve turning areas around the train line into pvp zones so that it could become contested. Otherwise the process of rebuilding it would be an event that would only ever happen once for the players who happen to participate in it. It wouldnt be worth the devs time to implement something that would only happen once. If that was the case then the devs may as well skip the player involvement part and just implement a fixed train line in a patch. Then again the fixing of the train line would raise a new question. Why cant players fix the ruined buildings too? If people can repair a train line then they should be able to repair everything else right? But then this would make the game far too interesting. It would basicly involve remaking the way the entire game works so that it would be a true sandbox game. If the devs could make a game like that where the players could change the game world then they would have already done so. The icing technique is perfectly viable too and a lot easier to implement......but its also a lot less interesting. I expect its what the devs will go for eventually though if they do decide to include fast travel. As for players who are against a fast travel system.....well thats easy. Just dont use it. Problem solved. The players who want to spend hours just moving from A to B can do so at their leisure. The other players who dont want to waste their time being bored out of their skulls can use the train line. |
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11/16/09 9:22:39 PM#51
As indicated by others, the bigger FE gets the more a fast travel system is going to be required. And not just a train line, where you wait 15 minutes for a train followed by a 40 minute train journey to a transfer station followed by another 20 minutes to your destination. Spending an hour in real life on a train isn't fun, so how is doing the same thing in a game enjoyable? Especially when you can craft offline? It's wasted time. That might be okay if you can spend 8 hours a day playing, but the person with 1.5 hours to spend in FE just wasted most of that experience in transit. Instant travel between hubs is the most likely model, so that players can move quickly between major areas. There might be a role for a public transport system within sectors, linking key points, but movement between sectors is going to be more important. And for only a small cost too, unless FE devs want to see such transport controlled only by hardcore players / guilds. Players can still explore. They can still socialise around the hub areas. But it cuts out the repetitious and dull travel times. If you have to 'unlock' an area to travel there first, that's fine, but expecting someone to travel repeatedly through sectors over many RL hours is also deluded, especially as more people have to travel through sectors to get where they want to go. Also: respecs will come too. It's easy enough to screw up your first character (or first few) and "go back and start again" sounds a lot like "press the quit button" to some people. |
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11/17/09 2:25:57 AM#52
Originally posted by Euphoryk
I am around since the Friend & Family alpha. So spare me your lecture! And you are nothing but a arrogant religeous fan, who thinks that running a fansite makes him god. Pathetic. I know and remember the Beta boards very very well. So don't think you can fool me now those boards are no longer there. During Alpha / Beta the fast travel issue was a hot debated topic. All the way through beta! So give me a break. The community was pretty much 50/50 split on that matter. Just like it is now. And like I said in my previous post in this topic. The problem with religeous fanatics like you, is that you people don't think ahead! You really think it's fun for a new player to jump into the game and see 95% of the playerbase hanging around in Sector 10 and being a FULL week away REALTIME?? From the South of Sector 1 all the way to the North of Sector 1 into Sector 2 already takes pretty much a whole night (aka play session). Most people are already not bothering with helping other people with Team flagged missions when they are on the other side of a sector. Nevermind when they are even a sector away! Even people in clans admitted that they really want to be helpful to their other members, but being forced to decline help most of the time, because it would take them more then an hour or even longer to get to their clan member for just a 10-15min mission. And that they feel bad about it. And with the coming of more and more new sectors, this problem is going to be only bigger and bigger. This game needs a form of Fast Travel. And fast! Period! If you like it or not! The game won't survive on a few religeous fanatics only. Cheers |
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11/17/09 3:11:19 AM#53
I love the real time train idea but it might be a bit too sophisticated. We are talking post-apoc here, not society where the trains run on time. It also would be a very dominant feature throughout the landscape, especially if it runs on those high tracks. I think an old, ragged, propellor biplane only flying between each major tradehub would be more in line with the setting. Especially if it occasionaly crashes :P Also; no mounts on the plane allowed so you'd have to ship it to you destination at a garage or have a mount in each zone stabled nearby. Seats and tickets would be limited and quite expensive too. |
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11/17/09 5:26:16 AM#54
I'm against fast travel - FE finally offers me gameplay that is different and refreshing and every time I come to the forums I hear about players wanting FE to be the same damn games they've been playing for years. If it is not a generic caster class based on mutations, it is instant travel.
The train ideas sound interesting but not as a convenience travel system but as the basis for some excellent content involving repairing and protecting a train. It would be a LOT of fun to shoot mobs coming at a moving train while on the roof.
A reliable fast travel system though does not fit the setting. The world is supposed to be broken. In my opinion it would remove some of the magic of FE.
I'm also in favour of anything that makes it harder for higher level players to be around the lower level areas to "help". If you really want to help lower level kin mates and friends, give them good advice and guide them through difficult content with tells. Don't come charging in and killing everything for them. One thing I really detested in WoW was the widespread practice of lower levels being run through instances by level 80s to get gear. So many times I'd be in a mid-level group and the moment it was remotely challenging, a level 80 friend would be summoned. I never really understood why other people didn't understand how lame this was. Fast travel will change FE culture for the worse. And the fact that more sectors will be added doesn't change this. It will still make the game worse. And regarding new players joining FE late in the game's development, do not forget there is only one server. ALL new players will be on the same server.
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SequenceLost
Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/27/03
"When there's nothing on the horizon, you've got nothing left to prove." |
11/17/09 6:50:28 AM#55
If they are going to inevitably create a fast travel system Id have to say I see the monorail system working best. Perhaps make it so that raiders from time to time beat up or destroy portions of the system thus creating new in-game events to have the system fixed before fast travel to a given sector can continue. Or even make it a new PVP objective - like CHOTA/VISTA want the tram destroyed...makes sense on a background level. I would hope that they wouldnt make the "station" sit right within a main hub however, but perhaps away from town like most garages are and would limit it to 1 station per sector. Also to the poster (sorry i fail to remember his/her name) who stated we should have to "find" the station. Thats just a waste. MMO's are designed for players to work together. That said, there is nowhere a dev can hide a station that will even be remotely hard to find, instead it just becomes a pain and annoyance which every player will do anyway (but hate doing the whole time). Anytime a player wants to locate the station, all theyre going to do is ask help chat, or a friend and theyll instantly get a waypoint location or someone to show them where it is. the whole "ooh find this before you can use it!" thing works great in single player games, but ive always failed to see the point in MMO's. There is another fix to the entire fast travel idea of course, or at least a slight alternative which might make it less of a necessity. The FE devs could make areas outside of S1, new player friendly. In other words, why not have a starter town in S10 (since everyones focused that far ahead), or maybe level 30+ missions in S1? I think if the game continues on the trend of each additional sector yielding only higher level missions and gear we're going to slowly lose that slight feeling of "sandbox" we have (yes i realize its no-where near a complete sandbox at this point even). If the game world was expanded in such a way that each Sector had missions and such for anyone, it would not only remove the need to conitnuously pursue higher sectors but also make the game feel a bit more "real". I mean think about it, why in the world is sector 2 and 3 filled with only higher level mobs? if this is the downfall of society and everyone is truly just out to scavenge and survive, dont you think somewhere up on a hilltop in S3 might be a group of lowly towns folks (thinking like lvl 1-5) who have made their way. whats the big difference that makes only higher level mobs live in S3?...the landscape - come on now - and even if thats the current reason...how hard is that to change a little?! This would give new players a chance to start somewhere else - perhaps closer to a friend whos been playing a while, and would start to create multiple communities within FE. By this thought im thinking you could have entire clans who have "home sectors" they reside completely within. I know its a long shot and would take some work, but i think a restructure like this would also add a LOT to gameplay. I guess i just get that feeling that FE could pull off another good EVE sandbox like feeling by having its newer players intertwined with its older/higher level players to create a game world where both can mutually exist and actually work together for a reason. to me in order to do that means removing the "levels requirements" from each sector and instead making each its own "system" (for lack of a better word) within the game world. I just know that in EVE (though i hated some aspects of the game) one of the few things i loved was the fact that they found a way for even a day 1 player to have a roll in things people who have played for years were doing. It made everyone feel like they were contributing, something i dont see often in many "level" based MMO's these days. I dunno, maybe im way off the mark here - this is just my two cents.
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erictlewis
Elite Member
Joined: 11/08/08
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. |
11/17/09 7:08:40 AM#56
FE is a new game. I love a lot of it. I have debated the issue with my wife for some time for fast travel. As we both play FE. My wife wants fast travel, I don't know how it is going to work. The problem with fast travel in this game as is follows. We are post fall. Most of the cities are in total dismay. There are very few folks running around with cars, some buggies, and tons of motorcycles and about 70% use horses. Gas is scarace,and is hard to find. You look around the monarail system is destroyed. I just saw my first working interceptor looked just like the car from mad max day before yesterday. Got to hand it to the guy who spent the 15 days building the parts to make it. So how are you going to have fast travel? I think its kind of problematic. Do we need it. I am not sure its been a hotly debated thing. Oh and I am one of those running around clanless. Hard to find a clan for Lightbear/VIsta support.
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11/17/09 10:20:46 AM#57
I like the "icing" method for fast travel. Wasn't it the method used to get you from the Hoover Dam to wherever you chose to start anyway (although given, it did take several years for you to come out the other side so in that instance it wasn't particularly fast). I would like to see the following additional restrictions added to the "icing" method though: *You can only travel to cloning centers that you've spawned at before (say they need some record of recreating you or something). No using the fast travel system to explore. Although, you may have to figure out a way to die near other cloning centers you want to "ice" to. *Cost is distance related, so the farther you travel the more it costs, just like towing your horse or vehicle. *Your horse or vehicle doesn't travel with you, so you'll have to tow that to you separately or keep one stored in your favorite town to "ice" to. |
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11/17/09 10:21:33 AM#58
Fast Travel. Resistance is futile. It will come. Now how fast travel works out, is a question. I put some crunchy crunchy into the whole deal and this is what I got: I personally had an idea that, basically had the same HUB system, but instead of "icing" you got "Broken down", transmited and "reconstructed" at the other HUB where you had registered your Collar. Basically, this is dieing but respawning in a speciffic, selected "super-clone-pod". You will suffer the death penalties (gear breakdown, debuff), but you'll pop out where you need to. To me, personally, this just seems like the best idea. No chance of exploration goes lost, since you need to "register" before two-way use. No immersion is broken since, basically, this is what happens in the game NOW (being the time someone died). And requiers the least ammount of dev resources to implement. As nice as the train idea is, and how appealing the "wait max 15 mins, then take a scenic ride" idea might be to the whole post-apoc people. It doesn't fix the problem, all it does, is take away the trouble of driving, but you're going to lose a GIGANTIC chunk of your time anyway. So the point of is rather, well, pointless. The cost/benefit ratio is WAY too far at the cost side. |
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Wizardry
Hard Core Member
Joined: 8/27/04
Remove quests,bosses and trigger them back in is called Dynamic events now?lol..i think not. |
11/17/09 10:29:15 AM#59
Fast travel removes some of the best items from crafting as far as travel goes. It also defeats the purpose of a large land mass.It is suppose to be something that is intriguing to explore.If you just start warping players around to POI it makes a game VERY cheap. I don't know if i would quit a game on that cheap mechanic alone,but i would definitely consider it.The REAL problem with FE is not the land mass,imo that is great,the problem is they did not do anything with that large mass,90% of it is absolutely empty. http://www.youtube.com/user/Napolianboo#p/u/15/rCYLLQCNc1w |
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cukimunga
Advanced Member
Joined: 4/03/05
Ah I'm drunk and I'm in the street like a vagabond. |
11/17/09 11:27:24 AM#60
Originally posted by Renkov
Its not really the time I am worried about in travel its being able to have hands free travel so I can do other things like surf the web or make a sandwich or clean the house while the traveling happens. Like I said before having instant travel in a PvP game is a bad idea. People will fast travel close to a town that isn't occupied by actual players and take it over and play musical towns and actually do PvE when they are supposed to be PvPing.
Edit: The thing is I don't think the players want a faster travel we just want a hands free..... I could care less if it takes me 5 hours to get from s3 to s1 as long as I dont have to be at the keys for that whole 5 hours im cool. |