Its hilarious watching all these fucking morons trying to justify all the illegal shit that they have downloaded/pirated/whatever. I get ribbed at work for buying itunes cards, and actually paying for the music/programs/apps I want, but atleast I sleep pretty fucking soundly at night.

And the best part, my Xbox live account isnt banned. Nor will it ever be.

Laff.

Shade: That is precisely the case. Though in the case of a painting the value is vested in the original object, and your copy is generally worthless. Chances are unless you tried to distribute your copy as the original, it does not have any real impact. In the case of software, writing, or any other medium wherein the information has value, copying it is akin to stealing, as you usurp the rights of the originator to distribute their work under whatever licensing the choose.

Troll: That's two. You're welcome to actually participate in the discussion any time, now.

Originally posted by Shade0o

 

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Originally posted by Lork

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Originally posted by majinant

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Originally posted by KirinShadow

 

There's nothing to understand. You're arguing that file sharing isn't illegal, which it isn't. Sharing a file between two people is not illegal unless you, in the process, are violating the license under which the file is distributed (by purchase, etc.) At that point, you're committing piracy, which is what we've been saying is wrong this whole time. Here's the thing though, just because one technically falls under the purview of another does not make it any less wrong.
While it's cute when children* try to argue like that, it's completely invalid. Foolishly dancing about waving alternative meanings of a word is equally laughable.

*(Again, see previous classification. I'm sick of the "BUT I'M TWENTEE FIEV" retort.)

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Dude, nowhere did I say I was 25, I am actually 22.
File sharing is not illegal. I know, I know, I KNOW you think it is, but as I have already mentioned, that is just what they want you to believe. Now the only thing I can say to you is....
 
... Go download some movies. It is great!

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A court will infer copying by a showing of a "striking similarity" between the copyrighted work and the alleged copy, along with a showing of both access and use of that access.[27] A plaintiff may establish access by proof of distribution over a large geographical area, or by eyewitness testimony that the defendant owned a copy of the protected work. Access alone is not sufficient to establish infringement. The plaintiff must show a similarity between the two works, and the degree of similarity will affect the probability that illicit copying in fact occurred in the court's eyes.[28]
Sharing of a file is legal as long as you don't copy the file and then share it. I can buy Fallout3 and then give it away to a friend, but If I copy the game and then give it away, it's illegal. The problem with file sharing is proving that it occurred.
 

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So if i take a photo with my camera of some random famous panting so that mean i stole it?

 

it will be "striking similarity" to the original if i print it onto some canvas

If you tried to pass it off as the original and tried  to sell it, than yeah that's illegal. But everyone would know that it was not the real one.

Look, it's a tricky. There are loop holes. I also never took up law classes.

so it is fine to download then if you do not plan on selling them.

Originally posted by majinant

Originally posted by Shade0o

so it is fine to download then if you do not plan on selling them.

 

That's basically it. If you do not try and pass the copy off and origional and just keep it for your pleasure, it is not illegal.

 

 

Also, I do not own a x-box. Never have, never will. PCs' are where it's at!

says the retard anime head... go watch your hentai.

but if we downlaod the hentai is is piracy everyone seems to think..

and no thankyou. i put the hentai on pause for this thread

Wrong again. Software is distributed subject to a license. If you got said software by any means other than through said license (be it an open source license, retail purchase, etc.) then both you and the person who distributed the copy to you are in violation of the law.

I really don't understand the point of this roundabout reasoning. "Well, it's okay to take a picture of a famous painting (whos image is essentially without value), so that means it's okay to download a copy of a game that is sold as a retail product! (Even though that data IS the very product, and has value.)" 

Downloading a retail game without paying for it is akin to stealing the painting itself, or, if you prefer, walking up to the Mona Lisa, taking out a razorblade, and cutting out yourself a square of the canvas. You are taking a portion of a product, and not paying in return what that product is worth. This is theft, which is a crime.

The license has been made by man because humanity is inherently flawed, and without some means of protection a producer will almost inevitably be taken advantage of by consumers who do nothing in return. This is why we have yet to see any attempt at a community based on the writings of Marx and his ilk succeed.  Blind idealism will not change that, and has no place in modern debate regarding a society that is fallen, and hence incapable of meeting any such standard.

You have zero ability to think abstractly, it seems. The original is not what has value in the software industry, but the Information does. I was drawing parallels between two situations where the value is in different aspects of the item.

Nice, Microsoft!

Best way to deal with this pirating scum!

I wasn't expecting this discussion to go very far, given that any rational consideration of the issue requires an understanding that intellectual property and physical property are different, and that the definition of theft will be different between the two. I certainly can't fix the voluntary ignorance of others. 

Thank god I haven't modded my xbox =)

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Alekhin

I think that is fantastic.  Anyone that uses pirated software ought to be punished.

 

Not only pirated software users were banned. I use my modded 360 mainly as a media station, watching movies, listening to music and so forth. There are also several other reasons to mod your Xbox, for example, fan noise and cheap, accessible storage space. I do not think you can argue that the 360 hard disks are not a complete rip off.

 

Well, I do call my modded box the homebrew box, I have to admit I have had a few pirated games on it as well. Having typed that, I do have to point out that I spend over 2k $ on official games a year, so I allow myself to try some titles that I'm not so sure about on my modded Xbox.

 

I have an other 360 that I play games on, simple as that.

 

Unfortunately  you can be just "a little bit pregnant".  Whether you steal one game or 100, you are still a thief. (though it might make a difference between a felony and a lessor charge in the eyes of the law)

No doubt those movies you watch, or the songs you listen to on your 360 are all paid for by you as well. 

Sure, modding your hardware for things like fan noise are no big deal, and you might have gotten swept up in the net, but overall I think they were after pirates and they got mostly pirates.

 

True, although my point was that there are others like me with two or more 360s, who pirate games, run homebrew and are not affected by the ban waves.

Piracy is bad, I suppose...

But really, I refuse to pay 60$ for an Xbox360 game.

Never pirated 360 games...

But...

60$ really? Microsoft needs to get its greedy ass beat.

Originally posted by Ibluerate

Piracy is bad, I suppose...

But really, I refuse to pay 60$ for an Xbox360 game.

Never pirated 360 games...

But...

60$ really? Microsoft needs to get its greedy ass beat.

$60!  I wish.........

Try buying a game in Australia.  $110 and currently we're basically at parity with the US dollar.  That might be $95-$100US.

I'm thinking about moving to the States, everything is cheap.

Originally posted by KirinShadow

.....................................This is why we have yet to see any attempt at a community based on the writings of Marx and his ilk succeed.

"Das Kapital"............?

There are other sides to the piracy argument and although I don't use pirated software myself I can understand why others do.  For a start how many times have you bought a game only to get it home and find out that it's the worst piece of crap ever to come out of development ?  If people are not sure about a title and no demo is available it isn't surprising that they use the 'try b4 u buy' argument.

Second and more importantly the technical quality of todays releases is suspect at best and attrocious at worst.  Allow me to clarify that for a moment.  Before we had the internet games suffered much less from serious bug issues as the developer would have to foot the bill for sending out patches on request on disk.  These costs were made up from creating the patch, paying someone to sift through thousands of letters, paying someone else to put the patch onto disks, the cost of the disks themselves and of course the postage costs.  With the internet patches became downloadable and much cheaper to get to the end user, quality took a nose dive with the paying public now a convenient and unpaid horde of beta testers.

Just look at a few of last years and this years games to see how bad it can get.  Football Manager 2010, possibly one of the best selling games franchises out there and the latest version has a serious memory leak that completely breaks the game and causes constant crashes to desktop.  Empire: Total War, another game with so many serious bugs it would take too long to list them all.  Initial release of Mass Effect, unplayable for most people that bought it to the point that it simply didn't run and Bioware had to scramble to get an emergency patch out there as soon as possible.  These are by no means isolated occurences and with the complexity of games increasing so are the bugs.

What's more the software industry have sat themselves on top of a pedestal and appear to think that they are above the consumer laws of every civilised country ( ever tried taking an opened game back to the shop?).  That's an argument for another time but my point is that if the software developers produced higher quality products instead of releasing unfinished titles the piracy problem may lessen considerably.  People do not want to gamble their hard earned cash on a product that may or may not work.

MMO's by definition are pretty much immune to piracy because if you don't pay the sub you don't get to play;  They do however highlight all that is wrong with the software quality issue.  Can anyone tell me the name of a single MMO in recent times that has released without needing another six months or so of development time?

 Lesson learned: Dont use Micro$oft products.

When it comes to PC OS you dont have much choice but when it comes you gaming consoles you do.

Originally posted by eric1000

Second and more importantly the technical quality of todays releases is suspect at best and attrocious at worst.  Allow me to clarify that for a moment.  Before we had the internet games suffered much less from serious bug issues as the developer would have to foot the bill for sending out patches on request on disk.  These costs were made up from creating the patch, paying someone to sift through thousands of letters, paying someone else to put the patch onto disks, the cost of the disks themselves and of course the postage costs.  With the internet patches became downloadable and much cheaper to get to the end user, quality took a nose dive with the paying public now a convenient and unpaid horde of beta testers.

There it is, piracy in a nutshell.

The county where I live has a 15% unemployment rate. I have tried for 3 or 4 YEARS to get back on anywhere in town (small town of about 2,000 people) - at the factories, at the fast food places, at the stores, anywhere. There are no jobs where I live. I can't move out because I have no money, and my experience with new games is relegated to listening to my friends play them over Ventrilo. I've got a WoW account because a family member plays and wants me to keep playing (I really don't like WoW) and the same family member gets me a month or two of City of Heroes every so often. The urge to torrent isn't just strong, it's almost irresistible. Why the hell do you think I'm on a site about free MMOs in the first place, because I like the games? Hell no, I'm here because I'm not just broke, but completely busted! So don't talk to me about being lazy, or leeching - talk to me about how you're gonna help me get a job in a place that's drying up so I can afford $60 for a 3 hour game that later on turns out to be a giant pile of crap.

Case in point, and it was mentioned earlier: 4 of my friends pre-ordered Empire: Total War because there was supposed to be a multiplayer campaign mode included. Here we are a year later and not a one of them is going to get Napoleon: Total War. How much longer are you going to sit there and piss your money away on games like that?

PS3 FTW!  That is all, carry on.

[MOD EDIT - LOCKING THE THREAD. I THINK WE HAVE HAD ENOUGH PIRACY TALK. - ARARIS]