Originally posted by Demz2

Originally posted by GreenWidow

Forcing me to make a pisspoor choice because the only choices available are pisspoor, is not dark fantasy.

Forcing me to agree with jacktard NPC's because the developer did not have the creative inspiration to give me another choice is not dark fantasy.  It's poor design.

I did not like the game.  I did not like the overwhelming linear limitations.  I did not like the storyline.

Rather than forcing my hand by not giving me any choices I would actually make and then trying to justify them, how about putting in better plot devices that limit the possible choices...

Forcing me to make a choice from a list of idiotic solutions is not dark, it's just stupid.  It's the dumbing down of the game that so many people are complaining about.

I expected more from Bioware.

 

This is how virtually all Bioware games are, absolotley no choice, and packed full of cut scenes, which all lead you to the same path no matter what u chose.  ME was like this, BG to a certain extent, and for sure as hel SWOTR will be be like this.  Packed full of annoying cut scenes.

With regards to no choice, this is not really true at all.

Having tried as many of the dialogue choices as I can when it seems that there is a fork in the road I have found out that there are 3 types of dialogue choice.

1, The flavor/roleplaying choice. This does nothing but allow the player to respond in a different tone depending on the character he/she imagines they are playing. In some ways this is the weakest type as some of the choices tend to be "snarky evil" and can really seem out of place.

2, The fork in the road choice. this dialogue choice does allow for your game to go in a different direction as far as outcomes. You can gain/lose a party member cause something major to happen to the area whether it's a leadership change, the death of a major character (which can affect you later), allowing for a different faction to help you in the end, etc. It's the "do you pour the blood in the ashes or not/do you help the village of redcliffe or not/do you alow logaine in your group or not etc.

3, The information choice. What I discovered is that some of the choices have longer dialogue branches that actually reveal more information about a character or situation. What might seem like a flavor choice can get you farther into an information choice.

Whether or not one likes that they are faced with one of these dialogue choices when one might not know which one they are faced with is another thing entirely. But these are the dialogue options I have discovered.

As far as "linear story telling". Most stories are linear. One thing happens, another thing happens because if it, etc. If people want to actually look at an example of non-linear storytelling then I highly suggest you look at "The Last year at Marienbad". It's a movie that is told in a non-traditional, non-linear way. Also Rashomon come to think of it.

Other than that, games like Morrowind or Oblivion all had linear story telling. Oh sure, you could get off of the story train and go pick flowers or explore a cave but once you went back to the story point your storyline progressed to the next plot point.

Unlike Morrowind or Oblivion each plot area in Dragon Age will have a slightly different flavor such as "which factions/characters are joining you, who gets put on the throne, what happens to you when all is said and done, etc.

Saying that one doesn't like the choices and therefore there are no choices is highly subjective. That would mean you could offer us a game that you felt had a lot of choices only for me to genuinely not like any of them and proclaim there are no choices.

A choice is just that, a choice. whether or not someone likes it or not is an entirely different thing.

Games like doom or or Prince of Persia Warrior within don't really have choices. Oh, one can do the puzzles in Prince of persia in any order they like, for the most part but you go forward and experience the story they have laid out with no variation on the outcome.

Could Dragon Age have had some more substantive outcomes? In some cases yes. Do you take care of the demon or do you go to the mages circle to get help and what happens when you come back after all that time away while you are traveling to the mages circle? This was something I wrestled with only to find out that going to the mages circle didn't really have any downside.

So perhaps that is something to argue more for. The idea that not only do you get a choice but that choice will have negatives that can be more palpably felt.

then again, that could bring us back to the "I hate the choice therefore there are no choices" argument.

Originally posted by Emhster

Originally posted by Thillian 

1. Dragon Age has a cartoony graphics as well
 

2. In WoW you kill demons.

Is WoW dark fantasy? Hardly. Dark Fantasy is Ravenloft. Dark fantasy could be Witcher. Dark fantasy could be Planescape Torment. Dark fantasy is Vampire: Dark Ages.

 

Dragon age is cartoony? I've seen more cartoonish games.

In WoW you don't behead demons, and you hardly see any blood. It's "traditional fantasy".

I agree to disagree with you.

Hmm.  I didn't think DA:O was cartoony at all.  At least IMHO.  People complained the graphics were old and dated, yet I liked the graphics quite a bit.

Originally posted by lawnmowerman

1) Load screens.Lots of them.

2) Ok, the story is KIND OF interesting. Doesn't mean I wanna take 3 steps watch a 5 minute cut scene, fight one mob, watch a 5 minute cut scene...etc

3) very , very , very linear. There is no "world". There is a series of linear, very restricted zones. You port from one to the next. "Exploring" consist of bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball between walls, both invisible and not down the corridor that is the "story"

4) combat. Sigh. Revolutionary? Breathtaking? My god. Swing my sword, hit pause, cue attacks, unpause, watch action for 3 seconds, pause again. yeah...takes my breath right away. Guys..."exhilarating combat" generally doesn't involve the pause button.

5)DLC ON LAUNCH DAY!!!!!!! LOLOLOL

6) partyy system. Meh, this one is personal preference, but I dont want to have to control a party. Game would have been better , imo if it was just me and my hound. When I think of a classic rpg, i think of me. My chararacter.Singular.Micromanaging sucks. 

I didn't like Dragon Age at first, but I like it the more I play it. However allow me to address your points.

1) Yes, the loading screens are a pain, and I agree they are quite annoying in this game. However (at least on my computer) they are very short.

2) It's an RPG, if you don't like the story it's pretty much a given you won't like the game. This holds true for pretty much all RPGs. They live and die by the strength of their stories. Also the cutscenes you can press ESC to skip through.

3) This isn't true at all. Right after you get done w/ the siege on the grey wardens you can pretty much go ANYWHERE in the world you want. While it is recommended you do certain quest lines first (ie to get the healer Wynn in your group asap) you are by no means forced to. The individual zones can get a bit too confining though, especially since they went through all the trouble of making them really vast only to restrict you to a small portion of them.

4) Another matter of opinion, but really the combat is revolutionary in it's strategy. Granted I would have loved for them to do it without needed a 'pause' button, it does make some very nice strategies available. For instance you can freeze an enemy, and order a party member to bash him (thus shattering that enemy), or you can sleep a group of enemies and order your mages to cast horror on them (thus killing x enemies outright). When you start combining CC / utility / and AoE spells the game gets very interesting imho. The same goes for melee. I think if it wasn't for the combos in this game I would not enjoy the combat much.

5) The DLC is pretty annoying, I agree. I haven't checked how expensive it is but it does shout 'cash exploit'.

6) Yea, this can be a drag if you don't like micromanaging. I don't really either, but I got used to it for this game. If you're clever (and invest in strategy feats for your characters) you can set up their tactics to make them automate well, thus vastly reducing the need to control your party members at all. However I have seen times where, for instance, my tank will start walking around in idiotic directions for whatever reason, losing all his hate in the process.

All in all I find it to be a very fun game. I would like to see bioware get away from this type of mechanics though. While they did do a good job overhauling the combat mechanics for DA, they are still somewhat dated, and the invisible walls are as well.

Loved every minute of it, but could've been better. KOTOR beats it hands down. The plot was over the top cliché. I swear, they must use some kind of generic fantasy plot generator. The same Hollywood blockbuster screenwriters use. The game mechanics were too simple, almost arcade-ishly simple. And there was basically no need to open any chests now, which is just as well as you couldn't bash them open either anymore. Wish they'd used d&d mechanics with this one. Or better yet, some skill based ones like runequest for once ffs. And no autohealing, that's just embarrassing.

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Originally posted by Sovrath
Other than that, games like Morrowind or Oblivion all had linear story telling. Oh sure, you could get off of the story train and go pick flowers or explore a cave but once you went back to the story point your storyline progressed to the next plot point.
 

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Er.. this is huge, but you word it in a way that makes it seem like a minor point. Some RPGs are mostly about exploring the caves and picking the flowers - sure, they still have a story, but the big difference that makes one game more linear than another has to do with whether the gameplay hinges more on the story, or on the exploration.

Honestly....did you not read up on the game before you played it? the point of the game was that you took the story and you made it play out how you wanted it to play out. They explained the combat and how it was going to be long ago...AND they explained that people arent going to like the pause/tactic part. Maybe pay attention before you buy things...it's called being savvy with your money.

I'll agree, they probably shouldn't have called it "open world" but it was. Just not as open as one would have expected. But should it have been? Sorr to burst the bubble, but open worlds like oblivion have huge portions that go undiscovered and...omg, yes...a bunch of time wasted getting from one part of the world to the other, whether it be load screens to the places you have already been or steering awkwardly through forests and path that have NOTHING on them but the occasional wolf. But a lot of people like that, heck, even I did for a while. You read up on it to see if it is for you. I mean come on....combat in Oblivion was a joke. But it could still be fun.

If you didn't like DA:O, then you shouldn't have played it. Obviously, it was a story-centric game. I think everyone out there knew that but you. Maybe it had more cutscenes than you liked, but I love cutscenes like crack. It's a game for people like me, and not you. Just like endgame WoW bores me, but millions of other people love it....so I take a break once i reach the top in WoW and let other fans play.

As for DLC...they explained that too. It was cutting room floor material that they decided would e cool to give away. I mean...really, you're complaining about there being extra content at start? What would you rather have then...a pushed back releases date or increased cost? One of the DLC's was practically free. The other was only 7 dollars and it was basically paying for a set of super armor and storage. as for future content....what? Want a full blown sequel for 60 bucks? Ever heard of Fable? Fable 2? It was a fun game but WAY too short for its own disk. It shoul have beena  chunky DLC for 20 bucks or something. But people like you would bitch about it, so they slap it on a enw disk, charge more, and you buy it cuz it makes you feel better to pay for a box.

I just hope you aren't going to post about every game you dont like, just because it isn't the type of game you want to play. Why don't you go bash Aion or someone that actually mislead their buys instead of railing against a game that was upfront about it being made for certain people.

(p.s. i also think that lag on a game designed for a specific console is ridiculous. You're on your own with that Dragon Age.)

Originally posted by Loke666

I like it. But I loved Neverwinter nights and the Baldurs gate games too...

Most fantasy gamers either like those games or the Diablo games, some both. I want a story and don't mind the party thing, I like RPGs. Others prefer action games like Diablo (or dungeon siege) but for me it is just empty combat.

That doesn't mean Dragonage (or Diablo) are bad games, if you don't like them you are most likely not that kind of gamer. 

Yeah, I was never able to warm up to diablo or dungeon siege. My roommate loved both but I just couldn't get past the first 20 minutes. Even with the new Diablo in production I dusted off my diablo disks, and played farther than I ever had. But haven't finished it by far nor do I intend to.

As soon as fiery balls of death start coming at me from off screen from every direction I realize that it's time for me to do laundry or make lunch or check the forums. ; )

Yet I loved Neverwinter Nights and played the heck out of it.

In any case, with all the talk of whether or not DA was "Dark Fantasy" I decided to post this video review from yahtzee at "The Escapist".

If one is familiar with him and can have an open mind, one might find the review very funny. I don't agree with everything he says but I still think he is hysterical.

And for those who are easily offended or have small children watching over your shoulder, this review might not be for you.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/1096-Dragon-Age-Origins

Originally posted by Vhaln

 

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Originally posted by Sovrath
Other than that, games like Morrowind or Oblivion all had linear story telling. Oh sure, you could get off of the story train and go pick flowers or explore a cave but once you went back to the story point your storyline progressed to the next plot point.
 

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Er.. this is huge, but you word it in a way that makes it seem like a minor point. Some RPGs are mostly about exploring the caves and picking the flowers - sure, they still have a story, but the big difference that makes one game more linear than another has to do with whether the gameplay hinges more on the story, or on the exploration.
 

hmmm, well that's a tough one but might be tough because of one's point of view or just how they are made.

For both morrowind and oblivion, my roommate hardly touched any of the stories. I think with Oblvion he got as far as dropping Martin off at the Blade's headquarters and essentially said "ok, well, I've done my part, he's in your hands now, good luck" and rode off into the sunset to spend the next month or so just exploring caves and ruins and selling trousers. Er, things he found (if you watch the review I posted above you will understand the trousers remark.)

As for me, I can't play a game where the story is not constantly in my mind. That is because if I'm to take the world seriously then I need to fully weigh what is going on in that world.

So sure, in both Morrowind or Oblivion I could take off for pastures unknown and find myself singing barry manilow hits to the rats in the caves but at some point I'm going to start thinking about the fact that the emperor was killed and I still have that amulet (hmmm, where did I put it again?) and perhaps I should mention it to someone?

But perhaps you are correct, a game like Oblivion or morrowind doesn't force the story down your throat to the extent that you can't forget about it.

If I arrive at kvatch and close the gate they will ask me to help save the city and give me a few moments to get ready. But the thing is, those moments can be stretched to over a year's worth of in game time only to have me come back and they will still be there.

If those worlds were really worlds I should be able to go to the caves and spend as much time as I liked only to come out and find Mehrunes Dagon sipping tea in the Market District and redesigning the landscape with fire.

I want to question the idea that any player who purchases a game like that must be interested in the story but again, my roommate said "forget it" and never missed it one bit.

And then on my side, I'm making up in game excuses to explore the eastern side of the territory before I deal with the amulet.

So I'm not really sure where that leaves us.

I suppose that people who are interested in a strictly interactive story might like a Bioware game. And that players who aren't so much interested in stories so much as wandering around a game world and finding out what trouble they can get in will more appreicate a Bethesda game.

 I`m the one who liked KOTOR and mass Effect and was hyped about Dragon Age tfrom the start but game left me with somewhat bitter taste in my mouth .My impression from the first few minutes is ok I got a half descent story ,nice dialogs among party members campaign was linear most part but nice and the I came to my camp where I saw DLC npc that was game breaking me I play an RPG and the sole purpose of RPG is to go the world and explore to go highest peak of some god forsaken graveyard and find a pwnzor piece of armor ,sword etc BUT NOT in this game in this game you can have nice armor but the strongest stuff you can have with DLC  not to mention easy mode Golem ,some sets of armor ,weps etc I finished game without DLC but I don`t like it a bit what have they done with my favorite genre there is no beauty in easy mode in rpg`s there is no fun if you don`t find that area that spot which make yours game nicer but in DA you cannot even enter region if you don`t have DLC so Biowar get a grip and DO NOT ruin my favorite genre no more.And to be honest I`m all hyped about TOR but after this I`m worried about the game and what will become of TOR

I like the game a lot.

Originally posted by Qrajber

 I`m the one who liked KOTOR and mass Effect and was hyped about Dragon Age tfrom the start but game left me with somewhat bitter taste in my mouth .My impression from the first few minutes is ok I got a half descent story ,nice dialogs among party members campaign was linear most part but nice and the I came to my camp where I saw DLC npc that was game breaking me I play an RPG and the sole purpose of RPG is to go the world and explore to go highest peak of some god forsaken graveyard and find a pwnzor piece of armor ,sword etc BUT NOT in this game in this game you can have nice armor but the strongest stuff you can have with DLC  not to mention easy mode Golem ,some sets of armor ,weps etc I finished game without DLC but I don`t like it a bit what have they done with my favorite genre there is no beauty in easy mode in rpg`s there is no fun if you don`t find that area that spot which make yours game nicer but in DA you cannot even enter region if you don`t have DLC so Biowar get a grip and DO NOT ruin my favorite genre no more.And to be honest I`m all hyped about TOR but after this I`m worried about the game and what will become of TOR

I think thats the biggest run-on sentence I have ever seen.

Originally posted by vixyn

Originally posted by Qrajber

 I`m the one who liked KOTOR and mass Effect and was hyped about Dragon Age tfrom the start but game left me with somewhat bitter taste in my mouth .My impression from the first few minutes is ok I got a half descent story ,nice dialogs among party members campaign was linear most part but nice and the I came to my camp where I saw DLC npc that was game breaking me I play an RPG and the sole purpose of RPG is to go the world and explore to go highest peak of some god forsaken graveyard and find a pwnzor piece of armor ,sword etc BUT NOT in this game in this game you can have nice armor but the strongest stuff you can have with DLC  not to mention easy mode Golem ,some sets of armor ,weps etc I finished game without DLC but I don`t like it a bit what have they done with my favorite genre there is no beauty in easy mode in rpg`s there is no fun if you don`t find that area that spot which make yours game nicer but in DA you cannot even enter region if you don`t have DLC so Biowar get a grip and DO NOT ruin my favorite genre no more.And to be honest I`m all hyped about TOR but after this I`m worried about the game and what will become of TOR

 

I think thats the biggest run-on sentence I have ever seen.

Seen worse. Welcome to forumworld.

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Originally posted by vixyn

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Originally posted by Qrajber

 I`m the one who liked KOTOR and mass Effect and was hyped about Dragon Age tfrom the start but game left me with somewhat bitter taste in my mouth .My impression from the first few minutes is ok I got a half descent story ,nice dialogs among party members campaign was linear most part but nice and the I came to my camp where I saw DLC npc that was game breaking me I play an RPG and the sole purpose of RPG is to go the world and explore to go highest peak of some god forsaken graveyard and find a pwnzor piece of armor ,sword etc BUT NOT in this game in this game you can have nice armor but the strongest stuff you can have with DLC  not to mention easy mode Golem ,some sets of armor ,weps etc I finished game without DLC but I don`t like it a bit what have they done with my favorite genre there is no beauty in easy mode in rpg`s there is no fun if you don`t find that area that spot which make yours game nicer but in DA you cannot even enter region if you don`t have DLC so Biowar get a grip and DO NOT ruin my favorite genre no more.And to be honest I`m all hyped about TOR but after this I`m worried about the game and what will become of TOR

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I think thats the biggest run-on sentence I have ever seen.

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I agree with his assessment, and that the way they're implementing the DLCs is pretty game/immersion-breaking.

Best RPG of the year that all i have say .

Just installed it, played for one hour. Uninstalling now.

Reasons: Ugly characters. Boring cliche history. Absurdly long dialogues. Not running too smooth in my Pc (2 and a half years old, sorry), boring combat, not too friendly interface. Overall feels like a burden to move around.

Originally posted by altairzq

Just installed it, played for one hour. Uninstalling now.

Reasons: Ugly characters. Boring cliche history. Absurdly long dialogues. Not running too smooth in my Pc (2 and a half years old, sorry), boring combat, not too friendly interface. Overall feels like a burden to move around.

It is not for everyone. Don't see how the characters are ugly, they are very crisp, clean looking on my pc...It tells a story, I think the history and the dialogue is great, it is a story and that is how an rpg should be.

Originally posted by Pryetta

Originally posted by altairzq

Just installed it, played for one hour. Uninstalling now.

Reasons: Ugly characters. Boring cliche history. Absurdly long dialogues. Not running too smooth in my Pc (2 and a half years old, sorry), boring combat, not too friendly interface. Overall feels like a burden to move around.

 

It is not for everyone. Don't see how the characters are ugly, they are very crisp, clean looking on my pc...It tells a story, I think the history and the dialogue is great, it is a story and that is how an rpg should be.

No? I'd say they are the most disgusting characters I've seen, with almost photorealistic textures. Also the dog is horrible. Also photorealistic hair that feels pasted on the background.

And what about the grey theeth they all have? Yuk.

If you like the story, ok, I just know the begining and it's the same story all over again, don't know if it gets more interesting later but it sure didn't catch me.

I bought this game a week ago or so and have enjoyed every minute of it.  I really don't have a single negative thing to say about it.  I just am in a rut with mmo's atm since the last 3-4 I've played have been average at best.  Well worth the money imo.

I think this whole post shows the rift between old rpg gamers and new ones. The new ones want fast, lvls, loot, and bragging rights. The old ones we are used to final fantasy, turn based, three hour long boss fights. We love dialog and we love cut scenes and knowing our parties very well. Plane and simple most the people I see complaining about these kind of rpgs are the ones who are not really rpg fans in anything other than name. Sorry but it is the way it is, and as for the people saying I predicted every story twist, could that be because you choose those actions? Yes some of the things you can see coming a mile away, and others you should be like "say what now?"  cause some of them you don't see coming if you played through the whole game. I will go ahead and say if you didn't like dragon age then don't buy mass effect 2 cause it will be similar yet you can screw up and let your party die for good on you there.

Loved it !!

My new all time favourite RPG