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11/10/09 10:27:36 PM#141
Originally posted by arenasb
LOL Really? LOL There is nothing that they copied from wow. It is much more similar to their earlier games of Neverwinter Nights and Baldur's Gate 1 and 2.
Are you joking? It's an average RPG. and highly average. Party members don't die and you regen all your health and mana after a battle. That alone puts the game in the average catagory. and to put the legend "baldur's gate" in the same breath as this dumbed down RPG offends me.
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11/10/09 10:52:48 PM#142
Originally posted by PoopyStuff
Are you joking? It's an average RPG. and highly average. Party members don't die and you regen all your health and mana after a battle. That alone puts the game in the average catagory. and to put the legend "baldur's gate" in the same breath as this dumbed down RPG offends me.
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion. I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this. |
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11/10/09 10:58:24 PM#143
To say that Dragon age copied anything from WoW is just plain moronic...and your parents should bar you from the infernetz moronz.... "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....." |
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11/10/09 10:59:49 PM#144
Originally posted by Gel214th sorry little johny son of a bitch, didnt realise you needed everything handed to you on a platinum platter instead of having you figure your own way out. o wait, if you played anything other then wow you might have noticed alot of games leave how much you learn up to the effort you put into learning it, like mass effect, baldurs gate, all the other games bioware has made and we as consumers have loved. |
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11/10/09 11:03:35 PM#145
Originally posted by Sovrath
Are you joking? It's an average RPG. and highly average. Party members don't die and you regen all your health and mana after a battle. That alone puts the game in the average catagory. and to put the legend "baldur's gate" in the same breath as this dumbed down RPG offends me.
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion. I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
Agree with this. Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case. |
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11/10/09 11:08:59 PM#146
Originally posted by Silverthorn8
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion. I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
Agree with this. Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
path finding? lol that's your beef? Yes. BG is legends DA is not. When you reach 0 health, you die. Why is that so hard to get for game devs? You don't magically get up after a battle where you were cut down thru the neck with a sword to the throat. And you don't don the wolverine healing factor after you get up and are able to fight at full strength 10 seconds later. It's a dumbed down RPG to the max. In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them In DA who cares if your party dies, no emotional investment at all.
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11/11/09 2:26:14 AM#147
Originally posted by PoopyStuff
Well, I played Baldur's Gate and I dont' see it as being a better game. The story is a little less boiler plate but not much. I do see it as being in the Baldur's gate family. It plays in a similar fashion. I can't see why players not dying makes it average? What is the basis for this statement? Also, you will have to remind me, did players actually permanently die in Baldur's gate? I don't recall this.
Agree with this. Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
path finding? lol that's your beef? Yes. BG is legends DA is not. When you reach 0 health, you die. Why is that so hard to get for game devs? You don't magically get up after a battle where you were cut down thru the neck with a sword to the throat. And you don't don the wolverine healing factor after you get up and are able to fight at full strength 10 seconds later. It's a dumbed down RPG to the max. In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them In DA who cares if your party dies, no emotional investment at all.
Pretty sure that's because BG/IWD/NWN etc. were fairly strict DnD rules, DA:O seems to just follow a different ruleset.
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11/11/09 2:55:42 AM#148
Originally posted by skeaser
Agree with this. Baldurs Gate had some fucking awful pathing, firewine bridge still gives me nightmares *shudder*, BG2 wasnt much better! Legend these games may be, however maybe it is time to put the rose tinted specs back in the case.
path finding? lol that's your beef? Yes. BG is legends DA is not. When you reach 0 health, you die. Why is that so hard to get for game devs? You don't magically get up after a battle where you were cut down thru the neck with a sword to the throat. And you don't don the wolverine healing factor after you get up and are able to fight at full strength 10 seconds later. It's a dumbed down RPG to the max. In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them In DA who cares if your party dies, no emotional investment at all.
Pretty sure that's because BG/IWD/NWN etc. were fairly strict DnD rules, DA:O seems to just follow a different ruleset.
Hey I got no problem with them going a different route for a different game. But attaching the name "baldur's gate" to this game as being anything in the same league as it, is just wrong. If your a huge fan of DnD, and think baldur's gate is perhaps one of the best games of all time, to stray from what made it great and have something so obviously make no sense like having party members never die, in what is supposed to be an RPG... It's so offensive to me to put the Baldur's Gate name out there, in an OBVIOUS attempt to bring in sales from old school gamers, then you don't even live up to the old school name by having game mechanics that make no fukking sense and are NOT old school. shame on bioware for this abomination, it could have been a worthy successor to Baldur's Gate, but its clearly not.
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11/11/09 2:59:47 AM#149
The casual gamer rule set by the sound of it. Any solo RPG should be better than a MMO at drawing the player in and telling a story. MMO’s are made for many players; they cannot come to a conclusion. Solo rpg’s are made for you as the main protagonist and can end till the next game is released. So any solo rpg that does not do a better job than a MMO in terms of making you feel part of the story and telling a great story has really missed the boat. |
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Lord_Ixigan
 Novice Member
Joined: 3/23/08
"Shut the face hole! I am preparing to say things!" |
11/11/09 3:27:06 AM#150
Originally posted by Gel214th
Leave to to some over-indulged baby to whine about a fantastic game. I would say no offense, but I want you to take offense. Every time I see someone say, 'such and such didn't do anything new and blah blah' I always have to counter with: If you're such an expert on what would be new to this industry, then why aren't you out there doing it? Some of us are actually interested in getting into the industry to try to get some new ideas out there, are you? If not then you get to do two things - first, shut the hell up and second, go play something else. If all you're going to do is criticize in that oh-so common psuedo 'ima article writor!' attitude then you just need to stop because all it does is make you sound like a snob. Nobody likes snobs. If you're having such a problem handling the controls in Dragon Age then I have to wonder how you are able to go through life. All it is is having DECENT multi-tasking skills with a bit of micro managing. You don't even have to be all that fast about it since you can freaking pause the game (spacebar for PC users). Sometimes the AI will freak out and go attack random stuff, but there are ways to change that. For instance, if you want to have your party follow the attack of whichever character you have selected then you can set that through tactics. You can even set to have certain party members follow the attacks of other party members by name. People who complain about the controls in Dragon Age are just lazy, plain and simple. I spent maybe 15 minutes exploring all of the tactics and fell in love with the system. Which, by the way, the entire in-depth tactics system to incrementally control your party's AI is new. Other RPG's haven't had the ability to do so much with an AI. And if you're really so worried about not knowing what you have targeted then you clearly have larger problems. It's pretty obvious when a character lifts their weapon and then swings it in the EXACT direction of what they are attacking. Then on top of that damage ticks DIRECTLY over it in such a fashion that it is almost impossible to not be able to tell what is or is not taking damage. I don't even play in the top-down camera mode which some people have claimed is the only way to effectively control everything. I set all the tactics exactly the way I need them so there is usually very little I have to do in terms of switching characters. There is so much you can do in the game it's still kind of mind boggling. There are multiple ways to handle a fight, any fight really. On my warrior character I have my part set up to the point where I can, if I want to, just power through most everything I run into. Two handed spec is almost disgustingly overpowered when combined with berzerker+templar and a set of knight-commander armor (adds a crap load of spell resist - it's beefed up templar armor). I digress though. Bottom line is that the majority of people bitching are over-indulged, lazy asses who really have no idea what they're doing and are easily confused. Here I'll say no offense because I know that's going to sound a lot more offensive than maybe I would like. When people get confused by something that is too different than what they're used to they usually just lash out. Most of the people I know who have Dragon Age (people who aren't lazy or easily confused) have absolutely no idea what all these whine posts are talking about. I have the same problem because when people mention all these UI problems or some crap I just have no idea what they're talking about. I've maneuvered around while fighting the high dragon with each party member and I didn't have any problems....but again, I also make full use of the tactics system.
PS - Having a spirit healer and a bard around make most fights drastically easier. All the bard really needs is enough dex to use a good bow, song of valor, all the bow attacks and a bunch of cunning. Leliana is the easiest choice unless you piss her off which also means you won't be able to unlock bard. Doing everything in Dragon Age takes a long time. Meaning exploring 100% of the world and doing EVERYTHING. If all you've done in the game is just basically run through the entire blight quest without doing anything else then the chances are very good you missed a bunch of stuff. There's a lot of quests and the like you will not be able to do unless you find certain things laying around the world, some are items, some are people, some are those things you interact with. |
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Obidom
Advanced Member
Joined: 8/18/06
Diplomacy - The art of saying ''Nice Doggy'' while you find a big enough stick to hit it |
11/11/09 5:29:31 AM#151
I picked up DA:O as soon as i saw Bioware were making it, luckily i got the early access gift So I installed it and then got teh Wardens keep DLC. I have been hammering away at it like a dwarf hammering Lyrium, and have been having a blast, I like how the quest line kind of 'holds you hand' but then you find a mash of other stuff that you need your brain to figure out (summing ritual in Circle, Dead Legion in Dwarf, etc) Even now I still stop what I am doing, click into the relevant section and try and figure out the quest.
I also like thats its possible to totally spanner your group by not completing subquests (the Sten quest for example) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png |
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11/11/09 6:52:31 AM#152
Originally posted by Scot
Exactly.
you summed up my thoughts on this to the letter.
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11/11/09 12:10:51 PM#153
Originally posted by Obidom
My "spanner" was cutting the assassin's throat rather than showing some mercy (bit out of character really :P). Still I will re-play the game, live and learn as they say :D |
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11/11/09 4:28:07 PM#154
Originally posted by PoopyStuff In BG you paid for your mistakes and you learned from them
Nah, in BG, you saved the game, and just reloaded if too many party members died. DA does away with this unnecessary downtime. And in DA, when party members "awake" after falling in combat, they have permanent, stackable injuries that lower stats, and must be removed. The "legendary" RPGs stopped being made by around 1990. The Wizardry series, Ultima series, those are truly legendary games.
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11/11/09 4:39:08 PM#155
Originally posted by PoopyStuff
I have been playing CRPGs for 25+ years. BG 1 and 2 were great games (not nearly the best) and DA, IMO, most certainly is a worthy spiritual successor to them, in every way and more. Try taking off your rose colored glasses. |
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Reklaw
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/07/06
Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves. |
11/11/09 5:18:50 PM#156
Originally posted by Gestankfaust
Why do you want Mike Laidlaw, Lead Designer of Dragon Age to get of the internet. Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development. ------------------------------------------------------------ |
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11/11/09 9:48:54 PM#157
Originally posted by Reklaw
Why do you want Mike Laidlaw, Lead Designer of Dragon Age to get of the internet. Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development.
The way I read this is: Mike next talked about what elements from MMOs Dragon Age took and how they used certain tools to make the player feel comfortable in the game. Mike explained that anyone making a fantasy game in today's marketplace cannot ignore MMOs and World of Warcraft specifically. He said that you are always competing against that juggernaut. He explained that what early MMOs gave WoW was the common user interface that all players have grown accustomed to. In the same way that Quake set the stage for FPS games, WoW has standardized the interface used to play RPG games. That interface was translated into Dragon Age specifically to make the player feel comfortable with the game. This way, players can dive right into the action and feel comfortable and confident. They can then go on to experience the more in depth parts of the game like story, the world, and character development. Which means that WoW got its interface from the combined contributions of earlier MMO's and its contribution was to Standardise it, make it popular. Hence, saying that Bioware copied WoW even in its Interface is false and inaccurate because it was not WoW's invention to begin with. And last I checked using a Standard is the smart thing to do, why try to re-invent the wheel. Therefore, Bioware in this passage is paying homage to WoW and Blizzard for establishing a standard which permited them to use for their own game. It is courtesy, in my perception. --- On a different note, while I beleive that Story in a Solo RPG is crucial and that Bioware has up to now been one of the greatest Creators of Solo RPG's...I do not agree that this same concept would apply to an MMORPG. If for instance Dragon Age was an MMORPG instead of a Solo RPG...I would not be playing it, simply because it would feel like a Solo RPG game...why pay a sub to play such a game..first of all, and second, an MMORPG is about interaction and Adventuring within the RPG element with other players...not NPC's screaming the Story to every player individually and separatly... I just feel that the MMORPG genre has been Invaded by the Solo RPG players who want to play an MMORPG for 4-6 months and reach the end of the story and the Character progression in that span of time and then move to the next MMORPG... I feel the genre has lost its way and its essence...plain and simple. - Duke Suraknar -
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11/11/09 10:22:26 PM#158
Originally posted by Euphoryk
Agreed, although I am slightly biased, seeing as Bioware employs a member of my family :P Bioware has really hit the mark with DA:O, it is without a doubt the best single player rpg developed since the early 00's, and I think it will hold that title for the next few years. It is going to be very difficult to top what they have accomplished. Epic doesn't even begin to describe the game, and the guy above who considers it a "generic setting" is clearly someone who just shouldn't play rpgs at all. You think LOTRO and DA:O have similar storylines because each story features an antagonist? That's as ridiculous as someone saying one book is the same as another just because they both have pages...
Dragon Age is truly a great game, but I don't know if I would say that its the best RPG since the early 00's seeing as I adore all BioWare's RPG's and can't wait for Mass Effect 2. I'm probably a bit different in my tastes though as I prefer the Sci-Fi genre to Fantasy so I'll always have KOTOR and Mass Effect very high on my personal RPG leaderboard. I can say, however, that Dragon Age is without a doubt the single best Fantasy RPG that I have ever played. Since picking it up I have had absolutely no desire to log into EVE or Aion and I don't think that I will be logging into either of them for a good few weeks to come, after all I have to try every origin a few times over, male/female, evil choices, good choices, and how I would actually react myself in any of these given situation (which usually tends to be pretty down-the-middle with a slight leaning to more of a 'renegade' style). To be honset, I can't understand the people who buy a game like Dragon Age and rush through the main campaign once, ignoring all other possibilities and sidequests and then say the game is too short and is very linear, well duh! I think these people would be happier sticking to FPS and driving games imho :p
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11/12/09 1:48:27 AM#159
Originally posted by LethalBurst
Nah, in BG, you saved the game, and just reloaded if too many party members died. DA does away with this unnecessary downtime. And in DA, when party members "awake" after falling in combat, they have permanent, stackable injuries that lower stats, and must be removed. The "legendary" RPGs stopped being made by around 1990. The Wizardry series, Ultima series, those are truly legendary games.
So instead of being forced to come up with different ways to beat a certain battle, your whole party gets up and regens in 10 seconds? "unnecessary" my ass. It's called "consequences" I fucked up, I have to start over.... Not.. I ran in there barely survived and now everyone has healing factors like wolverine. It makes no fucking sense
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11/12/09 3:32:00 AM#160
How long before we get this in MMO's? “Party wiped? Fear not, with DA (tm) rezzing technology our new MMO brings you all back if one survives.” So casual you can play it in a coma. |
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