This whole discussion is funny. This website is about opinions and personal tastes whether you like them or not.  People are getting way too butt hurt. LOL

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH dances on hacked skyship)

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Erstok

Really what is biased by a bunch of arse infested morons. Fanboy is no better then a troll. Are we talking Ultima Online? Or the original NWN on AOL? Do not minsc my words. This is in anyway shape or form an old school mmo in the last 5 years. The game has been pushed back longer then 5 years itself for crying out loud. Only a retard goes blind eye to the facts. Majority of the entire game is based off other things already done and made. Old school or new school it does not matter. If the game is crap you can't go a blind eye to the facts.

Want old school play D&D the board game. Darkfall is nothing short of a blatant zealot fest full of unquestioning retards on both fronts. Again if the game is great fine go play it. Just because some of us don't play it doesn't mean we want you to shove your crap down are throats. If some of us hold interest to play it we will. I myself never will, deal with it. I prefer BG or PS:T over this knock off crap.

Forums are filled with post count loving quote whores.

This post clearly sums up you have absolutely no clue about Darkfall. You say that the game is full of zealots who turn a blind eye to everything, yet the Darkfall community is the harshest, most critical gaming community I have ever seen. Kind of invalidates your entire argument. And the game wasn't pushed back anywhere near 5 years. It was delayed twice. From December to Jan, then Jan to Feb. And despite what you may want to say, Darkfall IS innovative, while at the same time being of the old style of MMO that true MMO veterans have been BEGGING for. 

The darkfall community is only harsh and critical of every game that isnt DF. What in DF is innovative? Full loot...wait not thats been done.,,,shitty pve oops nope been done, naval combat...rats been there done that, o wait FFA pvp.........nope not that either. 

Again, I will state, you clearly have no inkling what you're talking about. If you have ever even GLANCED at the Darkfall forums, you will see they are TEEMING with people who put every last dev word and feature under the microscope and there are several entire sections devoted to discussing how to improve the game. There is little to no one running around saying its perfect. The most you've got are people like me, who go around pointing out where people are wrong. That doesn't make me a fanboy, I just enjoy the truth. And the truth is, massive scale battles of this nature have not been seen since the days of Dark Age of Camelot, and back then, 400 people would make a game nigh unplayable. Not only can you far exceed the 400 man limit in Darkfall without the game crashing, but these battles are TWITCH BASED. You know, like an FPS? You aim your arrow, sword, and magic. That is so far beyond innovative I don't even know what you want. The monster AI is also new, though I hear Rhyzome has good AI as well. And if you can show me a game that pulled off GOOD naval combat, I wanna hear about it, cause the naval combat in DAoC certainly wasn't too good. But the argument is not about how innovative Darkfall is (though you'd be hard pressed to name another game with all the features Darkfall has) it's about the fact that you have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and just ramble on using information you probably gathered from random trolls. 

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by bongloads

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by bongloads

 Look at the steaming piles of crap that are higher rated than Darkfall.  Is  MMORPG's staff so scared to lose their gear that they haven't even bought a susbcription to the game yet (monthly fee still TBA)?

People don't rate the game high because they try to judge it on even ground as casual kiddie games like WoW. It's far deeper and much more innovative than WoW, but they likely played for 1 hour, got killed, and wrote the game off because it was different. Meanwhile, horrible same ol same ol games like Age of Conan... 

So in your opinion its deep and innovative yet many will say its the most shallow box of sand on the market. See how opinions work there. I have yet to see a rage quit because of 1 kill and 1 hour of play. Most seem to give it a lil bit of time before they get bored. Many I quit posts are due to boredom and not because the depth of the game or toughness. 

 

Eurogamer's first reviewer rage quit after about an hour and a few deaths

Yeah that's according to those "logs" that Tasos mentioned back then right? The non-tangible, easy to manufacture and non acceptable as solid by anyone unless he wants to infamous "logs".The same ones that anyone can have access to as long as they just leave their jobs / family / life back and get in a plane, go down to Athens, find the offices of Aventurine and just ask for them ,right?

Yeah that's why the second reviewer, and some other sites since then, scored the game so much higher than the first one

Another one who has no idea what they're talking about even in the slightest. You must have been one of the vaporware conspiracy theorists. Let me point out all the areas where you're mistaken. 

First off, something funny occurred to me the other day, I was listening a podcast from Penny Arcade, and they mentioned how it is an absolutely horrible idea, from a company's standpoint, to debate a review. It does more harm than good. Then they mentioned something I found quite hysterical, they said the only exception to that rule they ever encountered. This exception was when some website's review was so far off the mark that it was almost like they were talking about another game. The game being reviewed had everything logged and on file, and it turns out the guy had only played for about an hour or so before quitting and writing the review. The company got much acclaim and the review was pulled. Same exact thing happened to Aventurine, but the former vaportrolls have to invent elaborate stories about how Aventurine busted into their logs and edited all the files so that it looked like the reviewer never played the game! Those horrible jerks at Aventurine! If they were going to do something like that, why wouldn't they edit the logs to make it look like he only played a half hour?

Now, the issue was never with how many hours this guy played, thats just something trolls liked to harp on for whatever reason. The issue here was there was a massive amount of factual errors in the review itself. Things as wrong as Zitron claiming that the game had a system of auto attack, like WoW's, where hit chance was based on random dice rolls. That's a huge glaring error, because a major part of the game is the fact that it is twitch based, and that hits are based on actually hitting monsters. The review was rife with inaccuracies like this, and to be honest, I was SHOCKED that Aventurine said he played for more than 10 minutes. 

Another thing to consider, the review history of this guy. In his previous reviews, he gave WoW a 9.8 or something like that. Clearly not the man for the job to review an indie niche PvP based MMO. 

Lastly, the second review, that eventually came out, under the radar, like 3-4 months later, gave the game a 4 or a 6 or something like that. Know why? Because a company like Eurogamer isn't going to admit they made a mistake, they have their reputation to protect, so they make the empty gesture to do a second review, and get some high profile guy to do it, then give basically the same score again saying "well, you can't argue with it now, and if 2 people found the game to be bad, then clearly we were correct!" 

The text in the actual second review was a lot more comprehensive and picked out a lot of flaws that were in Darkfall at the time, but the review itself read like a 7 or an 8, yet the end score was 4, because of political manuevering. 

If you cannot see these simple things, then I weep for the IQ of your children. 

Keep on trolling though, I'm sure you find it fun. 

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Erstok

Really what is biased by a bunch of arse infested morons. Fanboy is no better then a troll. Are we talking Ultima Online? Or the original NWN on AOL? Do not minsc my words. This is in anyway shape or form an old school mmo in the last 5 years. The game has been pushed back longer then 5 years itself for crying out loud. Only a retard goes blind eye to the facts. Majority of the entire game is based off other things already done and made. Old school or new school it does not matter. If the game is crap you can't go a blind eye to the facts.

Want old school play D&D the board game. Darkfall is nothing short of a blatant zealot fest full of unquestioning retards on both fronts. Again if the game is great fine go play it. Just because some of us don't play it doesn't mean we want you to shove your crap down are throats. If some of us hold interest to play it we will. I myself never will, deal with it. I prefer BG or PS:T over this knock off crap.

Forums are filled with post count loving quote whores.

This post clearly sums up you have absolutely no clue about Darkfall. You say that the game is full of zealots who turn a blind eye to everything, yet the Darkfall community is the harshest, most critical gaming community I have ever seen. Kind of invalidates your entire argument. And the game wasn't pushed back anywhere near 5 years. It was delayed twice. From December to Jan, then Jan to Feb. And despite what you may want to say, Darkfall IS innovative, while at the same time being of the old style of MMO that true MMO veterans have been BEGGING for. 

The darkfall community is only harsh and critical of every game that isnt DF. What in DF is innovative? Full loot...wait not thats been done.,,,shitty pve oops nope been done, naval combat...rats been there done that, o wait FFA pvp.........nope not that either. 

Again, I will state, you clearly have no inkling what you're talking about. If you have ever even GLANCED at the Darkfall forums, you will see they are TEEMING with people who put every last dev word and feature under the microscope and there are several entire sections devoted to discussing how to improve the game. There is little to no one running around saying its perfect. The most you've got are people like me, who go around pointing out where people are wrong. That doesn't make me a fanboy, I just enjoy the truth. And the truth is, massive scale battles of this nature have not been seen since the days of Dark Age of Camelot, and back then, 400 people would make a game nigh unplayable. Not only can you far exceed the 400 man limit in Darkfall without the game crashing, but these battles are TWITCH BASED. You know, like an FPS? You aim your arrow, sword, and magic. That is so far beyond innovative I don't even know what you want. The monster AI is also new, though I hear Rhyzome has good AI as well. And if you can show me a game that pulled off GOOD naval combat, I wanna hear about it, cause the naval combat in DAoC certainly wasn't too good. But the argument is not about how innovative Darkfall is (though you'd be hard pressed to name another game with all the features Darkfall has) it's about the fact that you have NO IDEA what you're talking about, and just ramble on using information you probably gathered from random trolls. 

I point out the ways it isnt innovative because in previous posts its what you point out but yet you cant support your own opinion. Ryzom has good monster AI and the DF devs could maybe take a lesson. So I have no idea? Yet you cant support your ideas in the least. Truth is in eye of beholder and its your truth you spout off at. Here and the official forums very few agree with you.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

I point out the ways it isnt innovative because in previous posts its what you point out but yet you cant support your own opinion. Ryzom has good monster AI and the DF devs could maybe take a lesson. So I have no idea? Yet you cant support your ideas in the least. Truth is in eye of beholder and its your truth you spout off at. Here and the official forums very few agree with you.

Not too sure I agree with you. I think if we drew a line in the sand it would be quite even on both sides. Most people not interested in DF don't post like they did before the launch.

He gave you a few great examples of how Darkfall is innovative. What's up doc?

hmm darkfall probably deserves this score simple becouse its a niche game i personally would give it a 10/10 for me personally but i cant expect all people to love this kind of game , people who hate loosing their gear for example hate these kind of games :)

Sadly, that old trend of calling everyone who disagrees with you "troll" is coming back. It's sad to see that some posters cannot discuss things about a game without taking it personally. There were some good discussions here, before.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

What in DF is innovative? Full loot...wait not thats been done.,,,shitty pve oops nope been done, naval combat...rats been there done that, o wait FFA pvp.........nope not that either. Hmmmmm long boring gathering? Nope even wow has that. Uninteresting loot that makes full loot nothing more than a tea bagging brag fest? Now there it may be. Large siege battles of hundreds of people? Wait wait lets see L2, DAoC, EVE so not there. Player housing........nah been done. So where is the innovation? 

Well, FPS combat in a mmo and naval combat in a fantasy mmo is new for me. I don't consider the small boats in UO a naval combat :P. To combine all the things in one mmo is also pretty inovative.

I know Darkfall is a better mmo than the one you are playing, so I don't really care. The rating is ok btw. I wont recomend the game to any of my friends, and I have 3 active accounts. The game has to much grind for me to recomend it to any sane players.

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Originally posted by parrotpholk

What in DF is innovative? Full loot...wait not thats been done.,,,shitty pve oops nope been done, naval combat...rats been there done that, o wait FFA pvp.........nope not that either. Hmmmmm long boring gathering? Nope even wow has that. Uninteresting loot that makes full loot nothing more than a tea bagging brag fest? Now there it may be. Large siege battles of hundreds of people? Wait wait lets see L2, DAoC, EVE so not there. Player housing........nah been done. So where is the innovation? 

Well, FPS combat in a mmo and naval combat in a fantasy mmo is new for me. I don't consider the small boats in UO a naval combat :P. To combine all the things in one mmo is also pretty inovative.

 

I know Darkfall is a better mmo than the one you are playing, so I don't really care. The rating is ok btw. I wont recomend the game to any of my friends, and I have 3 active accounts. The game has to much grind for me to recomend it to any sane players.

Well its a sandbox MMO. The ones you consider "sane" don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that you don't have to max out a character before you can start having fun. There is no linear level grind at all, you can just go out and do whatever you want. Those that complain about the grind, you ask them, "don't grind then?" and they become flustered and have no idea how to answer.

Originally posted by SignusM

Well its a sandbox MMO. The ones you consider "sane" don't seem to be able to grasp the concept that you don't have to max out a character before you can start having fun. There is no linear level grind at all, you can just go out and do whatever you want. Those that complain about the grind, you ask them, "don't grind then?" and they become flustered and have no idea how to answer.

I know you don't have to max your skill to have fun, but it helps if you don't like to lose your gear. The grind in DF isn't just the skill grind, it all the other small things. You feel the harvesting/crafting grind when you fish and cook 300 fish. This also apply to any crafting/harvesting skills. The travel is also a grind if you are not part of an alliance with holdings across Agon. The bindstone_kick script is a lifesaver because runestones are to rare and expencive.

Lack of skillcap, slow harvesting/crafting and slow travel makes this game good, not awsome :P

Originally posted by bongloads

Not sure where my mind went, asking the community that this website's attracted to denounce their website.  If MMORPG could be wrong, where else would they go to tell them that outdated-tab-target non-risk-pvp games are the best things around.

 

Seriously, take  a look at that list again... look at the titles of some of the crap that's rated 8+... it's mind-blowing.

I guess the emphasis on this site's on shiny items and lore.

Your opinion, and that's what this is, does not make truth. 

Because you like the game does not mean other people do. 

How about letting others choose for themselves and not try and jam your opinion, see, there it is again, down other peoples throats.

Opinion are always personal, there is really no point to argue for or against a viewpoint.

Tallying and summing up opinions using discrete numbers is not a scientifically acceptable statistical procedure.  It is just a convenient way to construct some kind of index.  The index number on the game site is just a proxy, an indicator.  You do not judge a game based on a number, in as much as a doctor do not prescribe medicine to a patient based on a single spurious "health index" of a person.

As for as a game is concerned, if you like it, that is enough.  Play and be contended.  Why bother the rating given to it by other gamers, or a game site.  Does that dilute you gameplay.  If that does, your love or affection for that game is hardly strong enough.

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by bongloads

Not sure where my mind went, asking the community that this website's attracted to denounce their website.  If MMORPG could be wrong, where else would they go to tell them that outdated-tab-target non-risk-pvp games are the best things around.

 

Seriously, take  a look at that list again... look at the titles of some of the crap that's rated 8+... it's mind-blowing.

I guess the emphasis on this site's on shiny items and lore.

Your opinion, and that's what this is, does not make truth. 

Because you like the game does not mean other people do. 

How about letting others choose for themselves and not try and jam your opinion, see, there it is again, down other peoples throats.

I don't like your opinion on the matter

Originally posted by Hotjazz

Well, FPS combat in a mmo and naval combat in a fantasy mmo is new for me. I don't consider the small boats in UO a naval combat :P. To combine all the things in one mmo is also pretty inovative.

 

Trolls seem to be immune to this fact

Originally posted by bongloads

Originally posted by Slampig

Originally posted by bongloads

Not sure where my mind went, asking the community that this website's attracted to denounce their website.  If MMORPG could be wrong, where else would they go to tell them that outdated-tab-target non-risk-pvp games are the best things around.

 

Seriously, take  a look at that list again... look at the titles of some of the crap that's rated 8+... it's mind-blowing.

I guess the emphasis on this site's on shiny items and lore.

Your opinion, and that's what this is, does not make truth. 

Because you like the game does not mean other people do. 

How about letting others choose for themselves and not try and jam your opinion, see, there it is again, down other peoples throats.

  

I don't like your opinion on the matter

I don't like anyones opinion on any matters, or onions for that matter...

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by egotrip

Originally posted by bongloads

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by bongloads

 Look at the steaming piles of crap that are higher rated than Darkfall.  Is  MMORPG's staff so scared to lose their gear that they haven't even bought a susbcription to the game yet (monthly fee still TBA)?

People don't rate the game high because they try to judge it on even ground as casual kiddie games like WoW. It's far deeper and much more innovative than WoW, but they likely played for 1 hour, got killed, and wrote the game off because it was different. Meanwhile, horrible same ol same ol games like Age of Conan... 

So in your opinion its deep and innovative yet many will say its the most shallow box of sand on the market. See how opinions work there. I have yet to see a rage quit because of 1 kill and 1 hour of play. Most seem to give it a lil bit of time before they get bored. Many I quit posts are due to boredom and not because the depth of the game or toughness. 

 

Eurogamer's first reviewer rage quit after about an hour and a few deaths

Yeah that's according to those "logs" that Tasos mentioned back then right? The non-tangible, easy to manufacture and non acceptable as solid by anyone unless he wants to infamous "logs".The same ones that anyone can have access to as long as they just leave their jobs / family / life back and get in a plane, go down to Athens, find the offices of Aventurine and just ask for them ,right?

Yeah that's why the second reviewer, and some other sites since then, scored the game so much higher than the first one

Another one who has no idea what they're talking about even in the slightest. You must have been one of the vaporware conspiracy theorists. Let me point out all the areas where you're mistaken. 

Oh this is gonna be fun.

First off, something funny occurred to me the other day, I was listening a podcast from Penny Arcade, and they mentioned how it is an absolutely horrible idea, from a company's standpoint, to debate a review. It does more harm than good. Then they mentioned something I found quite hysterical, they said the only exception to that rule they ever encountered. This exception was when some website's review was so far off the mark that it was almost like they were talking about another game. The game being reviewed had everything logged and on file, and it turns out the guy had only played for about an hour or so before quitting and writing the review. The company got much acclaim and the review was pulled. Same exact thing happened to Aventurine, but the former vaportrolls have to invent elaborate stories about how Aventurine busted into their logs and edited all the files so that it looked like the reviewer never played the game! Those horrible jerks at Aventurine! If they were going to do something like that, why wouldn't they edit the logs to make it look like he only played a half hour?

So let me ask you this: has Penny Arcade actually seen those logs? Have you seen those logs......? Has anyone outside Aventurine seen them? CAN I HAS LINK TO THEM ? No. Why ? Because: When it comes to changing logs it's an absolute trivial task, what the logs say when that tech examines it is in the end ultimately meaningless. If AV was dissembling Eurogamer wouldn't be able to tell. Taken from the Eurogamer re-review a quote from someone that clearly has a better understanding than you and me of how things are working.

Now, the issue was never with how many hours this guy played, thats just something trolls liked to harp on for whatever reason. The issue here was there was a massive amount of factual errors in the review itself. Things as wrong as Zitron claiming that the game had a system of auto attack, like WoW's, where hit chance was based on random dice rolls. That's a huge glaring error, because a major part of the game is the fact that it is twitch based, and that hits are based on actually hitting monsters. The review was rife with inaccuracies like this, and to be honest, I was SHOCKED that Aventurine said he played for more than 10 minutes. 

 

Actually the "how many hours this guy played" issue is harped by the fans of the game (unless ofc by saying "trolls" you actually refer to yourself and certain other posters in this forum). Quote from the review: 

"Adding further insult to injury is combat - usually the only saving grace of a bad MMO. Darkfall's system is totally twitch-based, in that you click your mouse and you swing a sword, or fire a bow, or shoot some magic. You have a crosshair, and your hits are dependent on whether or not this crosses the enemy at any given time - like an FPS, except with little to no reference point." Found here www.eurogamer.net/articles/darkfall-online-review.He only mentions WoW in the second page of the review, when he talks about the lore and makes a comparison between DF , WoW and old EQ the only "auto" anything he ever mentions is the autorun macro and we all remember the *cough* firm *cough* policy that AV had on those things; and before you try to spin things as usual here's a thread and let anyone who reads this draw their own conclusions forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php

Another thing to consider, the review history of this guy. In his previous reviews, he gave WoW a 9.8 or something like that. Clearly not the man for the job to review an indie niche PvP based MMO. 

Nobody ever said that every review must be a possitive one and that the reviewer actually has to like a game in order to review it ; if that was the case there would be no bad reviews........ever!!!!!

Lastly, the second review, that eventually came out, under the radar, like 3-4 months later, gave the game a 4 or a 6 or something like that. Know why? Because a company like Eurogamer isn't going to admit they made a mistake, they have their reputation to protect, so they make the empty gesture to do a second review, and get some high profile guy to do it, then give basically the same score again saying "well, you can't argue with it now, and if 2 people found the game to be bad, then clearly we were correct!" 

Maybe it was an empty gesture but only as empty as the gesture AV made when they offered some tech guy from Eurogamer to go to Athens and "inspect the logs" (look a couple of paragraph above the underlined passage)

The text in the actual second review was a lot more comprehensive and picked out a lot of flaws that were in Darkfall at the time, but the review itself read like a 7 or an 8, yet the end score was 4, because of political manuevering. 

That's ok if YOU read it this way sadly that's not what i read (are you sure we read the same review? )

 

If you cannot see these simple things, then I weep for the IQ of your children. 

 Well the IQ of my children is none of your business but i'll suffice to say that no matter who i choose for a life mate my offsprings IQ will still be a 3 digit number with Nr.1 being the leading number of the  subsequent two others; whilst you even if you manage to marry a rocket scientist your offsprings will still be doomed riding the shortbus to school.

Keep on trolling though, I'm sure you find it fun. 

Same to you

Originally posted by bongloads

 Look at the steaming piles of crap that are higher rated than Darkfall.  Is  MMORPG's staff so scared to lose their gear that they haven't even bought a susbcription to the game yet (monthly fee still TBA)?

I got a great idea.   Grab your lil buddies and do the mass forum spamming that DF kiddies did back during development and try to get all those people to give DF another chance after this upcoming patch.  Maybe they will change their " 2s " to " 10s ".  

It would at  least be worth a try.  I don't think the current " DF is a bazillion time better than this game " campaign is working.   I wonder if it has something do with insulting other peoples past times.   Who would of thought they would be offended by it.

On the one hand its the best and only MMORPG worth playing for me.

On the other hand I understand that the world is very harsh and the game is not as polished as WoW or Aion, although in Darkfall the sieges don´t crash.

It just depends. If you value graphic more than content the rating is correct, if you value action and player freedom more then it should be higher. Of course I was always FPS player, that makes all other MMORPGs but Darkfall dead end boring to me.

Originally posted by bongloads

 Look at the steaming piles of crap that are higher rated than Darkfall.  Is  MMORPG's staff so scared to lose their gear that they haven't even bought a susbcription to the game yet (monthly fee still TBA)?

It was placed NUMBER ONE as most new promising mmo in 2009 by MMORPG.COM so what your talking about?

To Egotrip:

====================================================================================================

Nobody ever said that every review must be a possitive one and that the reviewer actually has to like a game in order to review it ; if that was the case there would be no bad reviews........ever!!!!!====================================================================================================

But in this case nomatter how much you defend EUROGAMER this review ed zitron did was false inaccurate and clearly made to hurt Darkfall.

There are hundreds of themepark mmo's out there only few sandbox free for all full loot mmo's so no need to review a game by a themepark player who hates FFA PVP full loot sandbox games becouse that one developer that dear making a mmo thats different from all those themeparks games can hurt more then you seems to immagine.

If Darkfall was realy that bad then no harm done it deserve a bad review but darkfall was not as bad as this casual thempark reviewer reviewed Darkfall.

Darkfall was always intended to be for a small hardcore FFA  PVP fanbase not for the main mass themepark players.

So this review by eurogamer was plain and simple try hurt as much as they can AV and Darkfall.

I dont understand why, becouse Darkfall is not in competion with WoW or most of those mmorpgs at the time maybe a little with eve or asherons call- Darktide.

Darkfall is a awesome game and only suited for those who like open free world with harsh pvp.

But Darkfall is still here and improved alot plus it gets again soon a new exxpansion with even further IMPROVEMENT!

Darkfall if your into FFA PVP with  FULL LOOT and destroy clan towns or sail the sea explore in a non instance huge open world then this game is for you:)