oh please are the WoW players so daft that they are only NOW noticing the RTM shop.

1 word

/pizza

Originally posted by rutaq 

And History has show that in previous experiments like ,SOE did with Everquest 2, it didn't take long to offer things like Xp bonues and such that had a direct impact on the power level of characters in their game.

 

It has also shown that when SOE did that, rational people who did not like this change, quit paying for the game.

Should Blizzard ever cross the line into non-trivial RMT then I will probably quit the game.  Until then I am not gonna commit the fallancy of a slippery slope.  A slippery slope only applies when you cross the line from good to bad.  A good or neutral change that in some future scenario might lead to bad things should be considered on its own merits.

Originally posted by Euphoryk

Charging players 2/3s of the monthly sub fee for a single pet is absolutely ridiculous.

I know, because the pet only lasts for a month!

oh, wait....

As with many things in the world, the truth in the argument falls somewhere in the middle.

Two vanity pets for $10 each does not spell doom for World of Warcraft or necessarily indicate that Blizzard has immediate plans to put Legendary Instant Win Trinkets on the store. The pets that they are selling have no impact on gameplay at all, and based on Blizzard's track record, I really don't think they'd put any items on the store that affect gameplay. Someone said that this is the first step to turning WoW into a F2P/Item Mall game, but the subscription model has been and is still working so well for them, I seriously doubt there's any possibility of this for many many years.

On the other hand, this is the first time Blizzard has put an in-game item up for sale directly from their store, and that warrants some scrutiny. It is possible that they're testing out the functionality and the reaction of players with the idea of expanding the store to other things such as mounts and who knows what else. Also, some players like to try to collect all of the vanity pets in the game, and this forces those players to pay out an extra $20 to complete the collection, which isn't very nice.

So I think it's worth discussing and posting to forums with a sort of mild warning to Blizzard to not get any wild ideas about their store, but everyone should also try to keep a level head and not jump to huge conclusions based on these two silly little pets.

Originally posted by Khaunshar

Actually, I am not aware of a single game that has yet REQUIRED you to buy something to advance in the game off their cash-shop. Sure, many things make it MUCH easier, make your character much more powerful or add a whole new dimension, but they are not REQUIRED.

That is going to be the basic argument for anyone defending their favorite company using double-dip revenue models. So, if Cataclysm (the next WoW expansion) should, just hypothetically, increase the time to level from 80-85 to a whooping 300 hours, but allow you to buy a potion which cuts it to 30 hours, you will still have plenty of reason to claim its not REQUIRED. Its merely a perk.

I think that might be a bit of a superficial argument, at best. I'm sorry, but there is a clear distinction between something that helps you in-game and something that simply provides aesthetic value.

In the case of your above example, people probably should complain... and loudly. That was the entire point of the article. If everyone screams at the top of their lungs over aesthetic sale items, it makes it less likely that anyone, game company or casual MMOer who doesn't frequent forums, is going to pay any attention if and when a company double dips in the way that you suggest above.

Look, I'm not giving Blizzard or any other company a free pass to screw people over, or to compromise the integrity of the subscription system in their game. I'm simply saying that context is very very important in this case.

Sure people can bitch and complain about all of this but what's really important here is when you vote with your wallet.  That is really the only thing that would cause a company to take notice.

"By raising a gigantic stink about this particular move on Blizzard's part, the only thing that is going to happen is that next time, when a company actually does do something offensive like charge a subscription and offer game-enhancing items within a store, is that no one is going to listen to the horde of people that are crying foul."

For the record this is the first time I've commented on this specific recent topic. Disclosure out of the way, I understand your point but I think you too easily forget that with companies who see the bottom line constantly as you state in your article, it is very common practice to "start" such practices with somethings that seem harmless and "for a good cause". That way they lure people into complacency. Use the "non-essential" items as a test run and to setup the infrastructure needed. Then, after a while, add 1 or 2 items that affect gameplay and release statements downplaying the "degree" of effect they have.

It's a snowball effect. These companies want to justify their actions sometimes by claiming the majority of the customers want this or that. That's why themepark games are being made a dime a dozen. Well, the majority of Western gamers don't seem to want item malls.

They need to take the hint and investigate other ways to get money. Like adding premium servers that cater to various gameplay subsets. I know roleplayers would pay extra on monthly fees for the chance to have more systems that gave more depth and player control. PvPers would also for servers that offered up more options to them. These are things western gamers want! Yet they (companies) consistently ignore them and try to push and edge in things they don't want.

 ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHH!!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Its amazing people are STILL going on with the irrational hyperbole.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by streea

But no. Instead you spent all that time going "STOP QQING!" by... QQing. No insight into the industry aside from "the more you yell, the less they'll listen to you" (which is only true of companies that honestly don't care about their playerbase). Not actually adding anything to the massive 200+ string. Instead, it was a giant nerdrage where you're right and they're wrong and those against this should shut up.

Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.

And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?

But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.

 

The problem is that there IS a wolf. It's sitting right there, nibbling on the sheep, and half the people are going "oh, don't worry, it won't do anything more than nibble" and the other half are going "OMG THE WOLVES ARE GOING TO EAT THEM ALL!"
 

Obviously the wolves don't care to begin with. Maybe they are just there to nibble. Maybe they're not. The fact is that if they weren't listening to the people in the first place, they aren't going to care if anyone's running around crying wolf... in their mind, there will always be more sheep to eat. It's not making it easier to ignore people... that's like saying that if it weren't for corrupt people filing frivolous lawsuits, there wouldn't be any corrupt lawyers. And suggesting that more people yelling means that they get away with doing worse things? What? They do worse things not because people are yelling louder, it's because as long as people buy, they will sell. It has nothing to do with "Oh, thank goodness people are yelling so much about this issue, it just makes it easier for me to sell whatever I want!"

Then there's the fact that the only company that I know of that's slowly introduced the "buy for things that don't affect you" concept is SOE. And last I checked, they didn't stop at cosmetic things.

PS: For the record, your article does not revolve around "how strong, negative reactions hurt the playerbase." The vast majority of it is about the points that the naysayers have brought up and why they're wrong, and defending a corporation for doing what it does best: make as much money as it can.

My god the stupid is strong in this thread. To me this is yet more proof that WoW has some of the most crybaby Asshat players out there. These complete and utter waste of skin crying about this vanity pet are the same assholes who blew Ezra shit because of the act of kindness Blizzard and make a whish provided. One of my guild mates twelve year old daughter has gotten fucking death threats in tell simply because she had her new Padarain out in Stormwind. This is a fucking game morons and it's a business, if Blizzard wants to make every item buyable they will. The only two reasons anyone would have an issue with this is 1: They are pissed because the item is available to anyone with 10.00 to spare or 2: they are too ghetto to afford it. No other reason is logical. So in the end if you don't like it don't fucking buy it, and stop blowing cancer patients a little girls shit because they have something that you don't.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

"By raising a gigantic stink about this particular move on Blizzard's part, the only thing that is going to happen is that next time, when a company actually does do something offensive like charge a subscription and offer game-enhancing items within a store, is that no one is going to listen to the horde of people that are crying foul."

For the record this is the first time I've commented on this specific recent topic. Disclosure out of the way, I understand your point but I think you too easily forget that with companies who see the bottom line constantly as you state in your article, it is very common practice to "start" such practices with somethings that seem harmless and "for a good cause". That way they lure people into complacency. Use the "non-essential" items as a test run and to setup the infrastructure needed. Then, after a while, add 1 or 2 items that affect gameplay and release statements downplaying the "degree" of effect they have.

It's a snowball effect. These companies want to justify their actions sometimes by claiming the majority of the customers want this or that. That's why themepark games are being made a dime a dozen. Well, the majority of Western gamers don't seem to want item malls.

They need to take the hint and investigate other ways to get money. Like adding premium servers that cater to various gameplay subsets. I know roleplayers would pay extra on monthly fees for the chance to have more systems that gave more depth and player control. PvPers would also for servers that offered up more options to them. These are things western gamers want! Yet they (companies) consistently ignore them and try to push and edge in things they don't want.

You're making pretty far reaching assumptions here. I mean, sure I suppose this COULD be leading to something more, but I don't think that just because that possibility exists that everyone should assume it to be the case. Looking rationally at this and the other RMT that Blizzard offers like the various change to character options that players have, a pattern seems to indicate that the company's plan is to offer aesthetic options only.

Your statements, said rationally and in an informed way as they were, about the possibility existing that companies might take advantage of something like this are perfectly valid. You said it, you backed it up and made people aware of a possibility. you didn't rage at the top of your virtual lungs.

using the boy who cried wolf analogy: You said - hey guys, there might be wolves in this area so watch out. You didn't say - Sweet jebus, a WOLF! RUUUNNNNN!!!!

I'm not saying that Blizzard won't turn around one day and open a full blown cash shop. I'm just saying that the time to bang on pots and pans, hit panic buttons and scream as loudly as possible hasn't come yet and the more often people do all of those things on this subject, the less effective it becomes.

 Thing is Blizzard have been doing these fluff items for ages (3 years) through the TGC cards that you can buy that give some mounts or pets. Exactly same thing and people never complained about it. As long as it remains fluff items, then I don't see what the fuss is about.

 Very good article: though I think some of the posters are to blind, conspiracy mongers,  or maybe just living in a cave (with internet).  It's a really easy analogy to understand & stomach, though some may disagree with the effect or importance of such RMT-like things games do these days.

Nobody worries until something bad happens, as they'd much rather have hindsight to use as fuel for their flames.  The minority (or so it seems) of the sane thinkers will on that day just smile :)

This is ridiculous.   Outrage over  2 vanity pets?   If your whole basis is that they are starting to charge real life money for items in game; then where was the outrage over TCG items that could be redeemed in game for mounts, pets, tabards, and wands?    Where was the outrage when you could recruit a friend and get a zebra mount but that also allowed your account to be linked to that recruited friends and get triple the experience for your low level characters while you hunt together and to even have levels granted to low level characters?      Is it perhaps that since you don't want to pay for a vanity pet you don't think anyone else should be allowed to either?    Grow up and actually pick your battles.    Just make sure they are actually real battles and not jealous childish whining.

Originally posted by jotull

My god the stupid is strong in this thread. To me this is yet more proof that WoW has some of the most crybaby Asshat players out there. These complete and utter waste of skin crying about this vanity pet are the same assholes who blew Ezra shit because of the act of kindness Blizzard and make a whish provided. One of my guild mates twelve year old daughter has gotten fucking death threats in tell simply because she had her new Padarain out in Stormwind. This is a fucking game morons and it's a business, if Blizzard wants to make every item buyable they will. The only two reasons anyone would have an issue with this is 1: They are pissed because the item is available to anyone with 10.00 to spare or 2: they are too ghetto to afford it. No other reason is logical. So in the end if you don't like it don't fucking buy it, and stop blowing cancer patients a little girls shit because they have something that you don't.

Wow....the nuclear language aside I can't say I disagree. I too have seen a lot of people get waylaid by other players simply for having their Padaerian out...but on AD, GM's were also publically banning the offenders. Never understood jelousey.

[quote=Jon Wood]When you go to the movies, you pay for your ticket. You expect that you're going to go in, have a seat to sit in, the movie will play properly, the sound will be working and all that jazz. Everything you need to have watched the movie. That's what the ticket covers. Now, the theatre also offers you the option of buying some popcorn, at a remarkably high makrup. You don't need that popcorn to get your money's worth out of the ticket you bought. You don't need that popcorn to enjoy the movie but it might just enhance your movie-going experience. Nobody yells at the kid behind the counter because it isn't included in the ticket price. It's business. I could completely see your beef though if you bought your ticket and they made you pay extra once you got there for sound.[/quote]

you are completely missing the point jon.

yes pets and decorative items can enhance your playing experience like popcorn in a cinema,

BUT

paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,

paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session

popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema

etc etc

a better comparison would be:

movie ticket : $10

buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1

you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you.

besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.

next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...

i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by streea

But no. Instead you spent all that time going "STOP QQING!" by... QQing. No insight into the industry aside from "the more you yell, the less they'll listen to you" (which is only true of companies that honestly don't care about their playerbase). Not actually adding anything to the massive 200+ string. Instead, it was a giant nerdrage where you're right and they're wrong and those against this should shut up.

Welcome to the world of columns and opinion pieces.

And for the record, the entire article revolves around the encroachment of a different revenue model into the Western MMO market, and how in some cases people over-react to them. This over-reaction to harmless additions is indeed making it easier and easier for those powers that be to ignore the voices of their players. This, in turn, will make it easier for companies to get away with less scrupulous behavior. Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when a wolf actually appears if they've pointed at every house dog that's walked by and screamed bloody murder?

But yeah, it was probably just an un-thought out nerdrage.

 

Who's going to listen to the boy who cried wolf when the wolf walks so slowly that he can only be seen when he takes a step?  The boy will cry out at each step, and sure no one will listen to him after a while, but eventually the wolf will reach the sheep.

The difference here is that there is a wolf, and not just a bunch of dogs.  A while back everyone saw a dog and cried wolf when Blizzard added more and more cash services.  People cried wolf that there would wind up being RMT in WoW.  But everyone said no there's no wolf, it's just paid service, a dog, and there won't be RMT in WoW because they said they are against it.  Well now that RMT is here, the bloody wolf is right in your face again, but oh, no it actually a dog because they have TCG rewards and all these other lists of excuses, BS.

It's a grooming strategy. But luckily not every person in the world is a sheep and needs to be told when a wolf is coming, or when something just plain stinks.

Try all they want, they won't get me to play a game where I win by how much I pay, that must sound like a freaking wet dream to them I'm sure, but it ain't gonna happen.  Eventually people are going to realize how retarded RMT is, and if not, then I can assure you that at least I won't be involved.

..win by how much you pay HAH!!  what a joke.

Right before I quit playing Ultima Online, I remember seeing advertisements that would let you buy a character with 80 in all skills (out of a maximum 100) for $20. And that was 10 years ago.

Early on in that game's history, it took 6 months to get all 7 possible skills to 100. That's how "grindy" it was.  How is that for "game changing" RMT ?

Originally posted by Troneas

[quote=Jon Wood]When you go to the movies, you pay for your ticket. You expect that you're going to go in, have a seat to sit in, the movie will play properly, the sound will be working and all that jazz. Everything you need to have watched the movie. That's what the ticket covers. Now, the theatre also offers you the option of buying some popcorn, at a remarkably high makrup. You don't need that popcorn to get your money's worth out of the ticket you bought. You don't need that popcorn to enjoy the movie but it might just enhance your movie-going experience. Nobody yells at the kid behind the counter because it isn't included in the ticket price. It's business. I could completely see your beef though if you bought your ticket and they made you pay extra once you got there for sound.[/quote]

 

you are completely missing the point jon.

yes pets and decorative items can enhance your playing experience like popcorn in a cinema,

 

BUT

 

paid popcorn cannot be nerfed,

paid popcorn cannot be made obsolete with a new bigger paid popcorn during the movie session

popcorn does not affect your status in the cinema

etc etc

a better comparison would be:

 

movie ticket : $10

buy special goggles to enhance your viewing experience $1

you dont NEED to buy the goggles, but not doing so will prevent you from enjoying the movie the same way as the guy with goggles sitting next to you.

 

besides, we all know very well what an apparent harmless rmt pet could mean.

next you have a bigger pet on the rmt, then the accessories for the pet, suddenly the pet requires food to live which you need to RMT buy, then you can buy the small pet house...

i was surprised you are being so short sighted on this one.

 

 

I think his analogy was spot on. I think that having a vanity pet does not improve the gaming experience at all in any way. Just like I don't think popcorn does. 

Your analogy is the one that got off base and acted like it was offering a "feature". It is not offering a feature.