Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by astrob0y

I wuv the nerdrage here. Soon 16 pages and I belive it will be much longer when the day is over. Blizzard sees a way to earn som more money. Give em a break or do you guys something against a company trying to earn more money from their customer?  You will understand their doings when you are in the same position. More mmoney (see what I did there) makes the company and stock holders happier.

And less money for us makes us less happy. See how that works?

Put a label on the box warning potential buyers that there are additional costs to experience the entire game.

Or be honest and up front and charge $20 a month all included.

You havent lost anything. The thing they are selling is a cosmetic item and will not affect the gameplay, you dont need to buy it to enjot the game. If you are not a collector and want to catch em all- but then you have made your choice. So your point is not binear as you are saying. So your post is plain wrong.

Originally posted by Xasapis

I've read it.

thanks :D

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

If this is true, then put your money where your mouth is and do away with your corporate sponsorship for just one day. Show us that you aren't ruled by the companies that pay your ad dollars.

I bet you can't do it. I bet there's no way you will ever do it and you and your co-workers are standing around the office sniggering at this post.

Originally posted by Stradden

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.

Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.

Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.

No the article was out of touch for the vocal minority that already for the most part hated WoW.  The majority agree and keep playing the games.

Man.  Some of the comments about economics, politics, and other topics truly defy reason or common sense.

Let's see.  We've managed to compare this RMT thing to everything except other games at nearly every turn (with a few notable exceptions), including comparing the running of an online game to the running of a fast food joint.  We've suggested that we should change our entire government and/or economic system in order to limit the pricing of the products and/or salaries of the personel involved.  And as always, every contrary opinion or position has called into question a person's relative intelligence, education, and even moral philosophy, so that we can judge a person wholly by their attitude about this one, singular issue.

Congratulations, folks.  I think you've just about reached the proverbial gutter of debate here.  Please, do not allow me to stop you, though.  The sheer amount of hate and stupidity being flung like so much feces from one side of that ditch to the other has blotted out the sun, in true Battle of Thermopylae style.  It is becoming awe-inspiring the depths to which this whole thing has sunk, and the speed with which it got there.

If anyone else wants to sit a ways off and have some popcorn, I'm currently taking bets on how long it will take until someone makes a cliche reference to a certain historical facist organization, on either side of the argument.  Unless someone already did that, in which case we can see how long before out-and-out character attacks against posters start that require moderator action.

/popcorn

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

I really feel for ya Jon. When journalism was considered more an adventure than work, before the interwebz, you didn't need to justify your opinion or columns. You wrote what you thought and felt, because by then you did the legwork needed to get there and deserved the right to be there.

Now, everyone is a writer, blogger, critic, expert in all fields and if they disagree with you, you're <insert derogatory adjective here> because it is easy to do with such anonymity and disrespect. What work have they done to rival your job. Easier to tear apart than constructively do.
 

You have my support in your efforts, even if I don't always agree, I will respect your opinion.

Keep up the great work! 

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

The problem with the article was that you are telling everyone who disagree with you to QQ... There are alot of good reasons to be upset about this and using stupid anologies is not a good way to argue with us.

Originally posted by Horusra

No the article was out of touch for the vocal minority that already for the most part hated WoW.  The majority agree and keep playing the games.

I didn't hate WoW. I wasn't playing anymore, because I am completely bored by it due to the difficulty in grouping. I had every intention of buying SC2, possibly D3, and had great interest in what their new MMO would be.

That's all over now.

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

I really feel for ya Jon. When journalism was considered more an adventure than work, before the interwebz, you didn't need to justify your opinion or columns. You wrote what you thought and felt, because by then you did the legwork needed to get there and deserved the right to be there.

Now, everyone is a writer, blogger, critic, expert in all fields and if they disagree with you, you're <insert derogatory adjective here> because it is easy to do with such anonymity and disrespect. What work have they done to rival your job. Easier to tear apart than constructively do.
 

You have my support in your efforts, even if I don't always agree, I will respect your opinion.

Keep up the great work! 

Yeah, because newspapers never featured "letters to the editor" where people never wrote in to take issue with a thinly constructed opinion piece meant to rankle and cause controversy. Those things were invented with the internet and never existed before.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who is only aware of the last 15 years of reality.

Originally posted by Papadam

The problem with the article was that you are telling everyone who disagree with you to QQ... There are alot of good reasons to be upset about this and using stupid anologies is not a good way to argue with us.

Indeed. One would expect a 'journalist' to use somewhat better rhetoric than that typical of a forum poster.

"QQ" indeed. Very childish from someone paid to write.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Stradden

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.

Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.

Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.

You only complain because you want his job ;) Its unfortunate you lack the flexibility and open mindedness to even be considered for a volunteer position on any gaming website. The absolute denseness of the screaming minority here is astounding and it is probably just the usual WoW haters trying to stick it to the man again. As many have said it on this thread, these are virtual items that make no impact to your gaming experience in terms of how well your character plays and what you have access to etc. etc. These are just non-combat pets you can show off to your friends/family. Why does everyone feel like they are entitled to baby pandas and liches? Its just astounding and perhaps a result of Blizzard having given what the customers wanted a little too easily up until now. Sorry to break it to you, the writer of the column mentions nothing new and everybody does have to pay their bills. Now don't go off from attacking WoW to attacking the writer because you WoW haters are already sounding ignorant enough already. It's kind of funny because this is almost like Jon Wood breaking the bad news that there is no Santa and companies are doing it all for the monies! =o

To finish, all I can say is if any of you haters were in Jon Wood's or Blizzard's position, you would probably do it too or probably much worse if you were in the same position (writer for a game website or leader of top MMO in the industry). Then again, you haters probably lack the mental fortitude and capabilities to even make it that far in any career that might even hold a fraction of the responsibility ;)

Originally posted by Jairoe03

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Stradden

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

How does this site make money? By selling advertising to companies which sell games. Including MMOs with RMTs.

Frankly, given the revenue stream, Gaming sites shouldn't be writing opinion pieces on business practices.

Provide factual information, not subjective opinions.

 

You only complain because you want his job ;) Its unfortunate you lack the flexibility and open mindedness to even be considered for a volunteer position on any gaming website. The absolute denseness of the screaming minority here is astounding and it is probably just the usual WoW haters trying to stick it to the man again. As many have said it on this thread, these are virtual items that make no impact to your gaming experience in terms of how well your character plays and what you have access to etc. etc. These are just non-combat pets you can show off to your friends/family. Why does everyone feel like they are entitled to baby pandas and liches? Its just astounding and perhaps a result of Blizzard having given what the customers wanted a little too easily up until now. Sorry to break it to you, the writer of the column mentions nothing new and everybody does have to pay their bills. Now don't go off from attacking WoW to attacking the writer because you WoW haters are already sounding ignorant enough already. It's kind of funny because this is almost like Jon Wood breaking the bad news that there is no Santa and companies are doing it all for the monies! =o

To finish, all I can say is if any of you haters were in Jon Wood's or Blizzard's position, you would probably do it too or probably much worse if you were in the same position (writer for a game website or leader of top MMO in the industry). Then again, you haters probably lack the mental fortitude and capabilities to even make it that far in any career that might even hold a fraction of the responsibility ;)

Yeah, anyone who disagrees with an opinion on this site only does so because they want that writer's job. Any more pathetic justifications for this article?

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

Yeah, because newspapers never featured "letters to the editor" where people never wrote in to take issue with a thinly constructed opinion piece meant to rankle and cause controversy. Those things were invented with the internet and never existed before.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who is only aware of the last 15 years of reality.

LOL If you even knew anything about the field, you'd know that "letters to the editor" did very little to the inner workings of the actual editing of the newspapers.  It took real journalists to weed out those other journalists because of shoddy research and such, not the people reading it.

I'd say your version of reality is as skewed as your failures in it.

Huh? if I were in blizzards position i would never do cash shop but focus on how I can let the customers that are already playing enjoying the game with the possibility to get new ones.

Don;t tell me you think there will only be those 2 pets in the cash shop because that would be stupid.

In my opinion there was no need for an "article" since he;s just defending and not taking the possibility of the many that are wondering what will happen.

...

Originally posted by whisperwynd

Originally posted by Xondar123

 

Yeah, because newspapers never featured "letters to the editor" where people never wrote in to take issue with a thinly constructed opinion piece meant to rankle and cause controversy. Those things were invented with the internet and never existed before.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is someone who is only aware of the last 15 years of reality.

 

LOL If you even knew anything about the field, you'd know that "letters to the editor" did very little to the inner workings of the actual editing of the newspapers.  It took real journalists to weed out those other journalists because of shoddy research and such, not the people reading it.

I'd say your version of reality is as skewed as your failures in it.

Oh, so now some random anonymous journalism "expert" on the internet is telling me what "reality" really is. Gee guys, I guess I was wrong all the time. The crap spewed in this stupid opinion piece is completely correct!

Originally posted by Xondar123

Yeah, anyone who disagrees with an opinion on this site only does so because they want that writer's job. Any more pathetic justifications for this article?

Hey a pathetic justification in response to the pathetic negative responses to the article. All of you act like Blizzard rules your life and you needs the pet and its hilarious. How can you take any of these seriously? Maybe its because I work for customer service that attends to people nationwide and I get the same responses and I see similar responses here and the funniest thing is, it isn't even a price increase to anything. No one is making you buy these pets nor is it required for anything extra (i.e. raids, instances, PvP BG's etc.). These are really just virtual toys with no value in regards to game experience. So again, are you that entitled to these pets or can you just let it go? ;) You and other haters just come off as childish (and most likely you could be just a child with little to no understanding to how the real world works).

Either don't pay for the freaking pets or the store or suck it up and fork over the cash if you think its so freaking cool. Your subscription only entitles you to the game itself and you have all the access to everything minus a couple virtual items -_- Kids....

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Gyrus

Couple of points:

Jon Wood - I think you are out of touch with your audience.  

He didn't write it for his audience. He wrote it for his clients.

Gaming sites don't serve their members. Unless they are paying members.

*sigh* Ya know, Gyrus' statement, I personally believe to be incorrect, but at least the statement makes sense. MMO_Doubter, once again you're off base with a nice conspiracy theory. I honestly don't know what else to say to ya on that subject.

In the case of this article, I didn't write it because any advertiser told me to. I didn't write it because I thought it would reflect the opinions of the audience. I didn't write it because I thought it was the opposite opinion of the audience either. I took a subject that was in the news and wrote my opinion on it... Which is the point of a column.

Disagree with me, fine. That's cool. As much as I'd love for everyone to agree with every word I ever say, just because I say it, that just ain't how the world works. So yes, disagree. That's how it's supposed to work when it comes to opinion pieces. I wrote my opinions and backed them up with examples of why I believe them to be true. Some others in this thread have made some pretty good arguments on the other side. This creates a dialogue which, when it comes to disagreements, is the first step toward solving them. Understanding the other side's position is always a good idea.

I'm not trying to write what my audience wants to hear. Everyone wants an un-biased media, I hear that day in and day out. The thing is that someone being un-biased means that sometimes they are going to share your views and sometimes they won't.This is the reason that we have polarized left and right news outlets. Everyone wants to feel like their opinions are the "un-biased" truth, but all opinions are colored by the personal experiences of the opinion holder. Many people believe that if their opinions are unbiased than anyone disagreeing must be terribly biased.

Anyway, that's my rant on the subject. You may all continue beating me mercilessly with a stick.

 

If this is true, then put your money where your mouth is and do away with your corporate sponsorship for just one day. Show us that you aren't ruled by the companies that pay your ad dollars.

I bet you can't do it. I bet there's no way you will ever do it and you and your co-workers are standing around the office sniggering at this post.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote and the reaction of many players here is a bunch of b.s propaganda.

WoW has always made money from extra products not related directly to their games. Trading cards, board games, comics etc. They have a successful expansion series which you have to pay for each expansion just to get access to the new areas. What the hell does it matter if they give vanity items in an item shop? Anyone who plays WoW knows these vanity items do nothing to effect your game play. All it does is make you look cool and if someone wants to pay for it then fine. Some fans may love the idea, it's what fans do.

I am against f2p and item malls personally. In this case, it's a harmless way to make money. This is the obvious, any reasonable person can see that.

Jon Wood you shouldn't have to feel as if you owe anyone anything other than your honest opinion. I prefer that honesty as it has stirred up debate and brought so much more attention to another issue gamers must address. "We don't know what we really want. We are simply responding to what is commonly accepted."

If f2p and item mall games were the first kind of mmorpg to come out and became very popular before p2p games came out, I can imagine the anger and hatred that would proceed from gamers if the first subscription based mmorpg would have hit the scene. It might have started flame wars and even if that p2p mmorpg was more polished and offered more features than the f2p mmos, players would hate on it until it eventually survived the chaotic propaganda. Eventually after some brave gamers actually subscribe to the game and like it, the p2p market would have then become more accepted. The people will then follow the trend.

Someone started the flame war about Blizzard's decision to add vanity pets and the popularity to be against it has caught on. Champions Online did it but of course, it's not consider as important. Blizzard has been creating vanity items for years, T-Shirts, Mugs, collectibles etc, and no one dare announced that Blizzard was too greedy over the course of several years. Blizzard is successful and can capitalize on their success provided they are not hurting the game experience. Get over it. If you don't like their merchandise, don't buy it. These vanity pets are just virtual merchandise and quite honestly less annoying than Level 80 Orc T-Shirts. 

EDIT: I am not one to apologize for my opinions so don't expect one.