As a 23 year old male, married, child, house, real life issues (no of this actually matters but gives a view into me :-)) it has been harder and harder for me for mmo's to hold my interest for longer than a month.  I have always been a casual gamers, playing an hour, maybe two, a day.  Recently though, games just don't hold my attention.  My wife says I am growing up, but I thinks its the quality of games that are coming out.  Coming from Asheron's call in late '99, I have been around pre-WoW.  Don't get me wrong, WoW is a very polished game and has great market appeal, but as changed the world of mmo.  Looking at some stats for pre-WoW games, some of the most famous games had a very small amount of players.  Ac with 200k at its peak, EQ with 300k, DAoC with 500k.  Why must games try to have millions of people playing?  Games like WAR and Aion are failing because they make the game for millions and when the base isn't there they crumble. To me, 500k people a month paying $15 is a pretty good pay check.  AC just hit its 10th anniversery.  That is 120 months at $15.  Why can't we have games that are more like the old style of play?  Having a newer, polished versions of Ac or DAoC would probably have a smaller base but live longer than most new games today.

Am I alone in this thinking?  Is there a huge difference in thinking of people that played pre-Wow and post-WoW?  Would love to get some feedback and hear what people are thinking.

You're probably experiencing certain changes, like hair where there used to be none, and your voice may be getting deeper. Don't worry, this is normal.

The majority of current MMORPG players seem to like a game that is essentially like WoW, very casual, easy to level to the cap solo, and then has some raiding at the end.

There are no good in depth games that encourage grouping like the old DAoC and EQ games on the horizon as far as I know. Might be one day, but so far everyone has abandoned this model for the solo friendly, quick level to the cap, raid at the end design.

Age has nothing to do with your interest in things. If you don't find a activity fun anymore don't do it.

First off, yes you are growing up.  At least I hope so.  Games will not be able to hold your attention or have that feeling you had with the first one you played.  There is a special connection there.  It is the game that introduced you to the genre and was interesting enough to keep you there.

Secondly, the problem with the newer games is not just content or subscription base.  It also has to do with choises and competition.  There are more choices in MMO games now than were out there when EQ was the leader or UO or AC.  Those kept their subs up by releasing expansions and having communities buoild up where content was lacking.

Now, people have the internet for reviews, forumns and so forth to discuss games.  There is little community building in games because players who get bored with the content move on to other games that come out with new and shinier content.  Players do not put up with the spawn camping nor gaps in level content by grouping up with others and making their own content or having fun within the confines of the games world.

It seems that the newer games are working to support those gamers who come out and say "Where is the End game??"  Players want to know what they are going to  get before they spend the countless hours to get to the end and go WTF now?  Companies are struggling with getting this into their games and some do at the expense of sacrificing the journey to get players to the end game.  Players who are looking forward to an End Game content find themselves burining out trying to get there or just plain hating the mechanics of the non-end game content.

So, what is the resoloution?  If I knew how to correct this I would obviously be making some serious bucks coming up with the next WoW.  ;)

There is a thing called singleplayer games. Hassle free and perfect for one that has little time on his hands and/or is bored of current mmos.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

You're probably experiencing certain changes, like hair where there used to be none, and your voice may be getting deeper. Don't worry, this is normal.

^ lol.

Don't get me wrong, Iove playing mmo's.  I guess my real question was that is there a huge difference in what people want for people who have played mmo's before Wow and ones that Wow was their first? Also, do people think that there will be some game or games that will go back to an older style of game in the near future?

Originally posted by dromo003

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

You're probably experiencing certain changes, like hair where there used to be none, and your voice may be getting deeper. Don't worry, this is normal.

 

^ lol.

Don't get me wrong, Iove playing mmo's.  I guess my real question was that is there a huge difference in what people want for people who have played mmo's before Wow and ones that Wow was their first? Also, do people think that there will be some game or games that will go back to an older style of game in the near future?

MOST players want the casual solo friendly game, where they can group now and then if they feel like it, but for the most part soloing to the level cap is not very hard, whether they are older gamers or new ones.

There are still plenty of gamers like you and me ( I like the pre-WoW games too), but developers are not yet making any new games for us that are decent.
 

Vanguard doesn't count IMO because it was a buggy piece of poo.

I think, which is an omission of personal preference, that you have grown up but MMO's didn't advance with you.  I too have a certain nostalgia about the pre-WoW games.  It's almost like an offense that WoW came and pulled all the simple parts from my favorite games and made a tight simplified version.  I'm a casual gamer too.  I got started doing beta for eq1, but it was DAoC that hooked me for 3 years.  Looking back, those years of raiding and frontier battles were the highlight of entire mmo game obsession.  In fact, that was the only time I could sit in front of a computer for 5 hours or so without getting restless.  The thing is though, the things that have worked will progress from generation to generation.  But those aren't necessarily the things that appealed to me originally.  Which means, high learning curve, group friendly, and story have fallen by the wayside.  They don't really work in the current business model. 

On the other hand I do get a moderate amount of enjoyment from Lotro.  When I say moderate I mean, hopefully it will appease my mmo cravings until something better comes out.  It seems like as an MMO veteran that is all I do though: wait until something better comes out.   And Vanguard..which was mentioned by the poster above was indeed buggy.  But I tried it recently (a month back) and it was actually somewhat fun. 

Originally posted by dromo003

      As a 23 year old male, married, child, house, real life issues (no of this actually matters but gives a view into me :-)) it has been harder and harder for me for mmo's to hold my interest for longer than a month.  I have always been a casual gamers, playing an hour, maybe two, a day.  Recently though, games just don't hold my attention.  My wife says I am growing up, but I thinks its the quality of games that are coming out.  Coming from Asheron's call in late '99, I have been around pre-WoW.  Don't get me wrong, WoW is a very polished game and has great market appeal, but as changed the world of mmo.  Looking at some stats for pre-WoW games, some of the most famous games had a very small amount of players.  Ac with 200k at its peak, EQ with 300k, DAoC with 500k.  Why must games try to have millions of people playing?  Games like WAR and Aion are failing because they make the game for millions and when the base isn't there they crumble. To me, 500k people a month paying $15 is a pretty good pay check.  AC just hit its 10th anniversery.  That is 120 months at $15.  Why can't we have games that are more like the old style of play?  Having a newer, polished versions of Ac or DAoC would probably have a smaller base but live longer than most new games today.

Am I alone in this thinking?  Is there a huge difference in thinking of people that played pre-Wow and post-WoW?  Would love to get some feedback and hear what people are thinking.

oh oh.. you got real life issues? thats very unusual.. röfl moron

It's not puberty or responsibility, you're just waking up and realizing that every MMO out there sucks ass, since they're all being developed for mass market appeal, and the mass market apparently appeals boring pieces of trash.  But don't worry, you're not alone.

Originally posted by Gozzar

Originally posted by dromo003

      As a 23 year old male, married, child, house, real life issues (no of this actually matters but gives a view into me :-)) it has been harder and harder for me for mmo's to hold my interest for longer than a month.  I have always been a casual gamers, playing an hour, maybe two, a day.  Recently though, games just don't hold my attention.  My wife says I am growing up, but I thinks its the quality of games that are coming out.  Coming from Asheron's call in late '99, I have been around pre-WoW.  Don't get me wrong, WoW is a very polished game and has great market appeal, but as changed the world of mmo.  Looking at some stats for pre-WoW games, some of the most famous games had a very small amount of players.  Ac with 200k at its peak, EQ with 300k, DAoC with 500k.  Why must games try to have millions of people playing?  Games like WAR and Aion are failing because they make the game for millions and when the base isn't there they crumble. To me, 500k people a month paying $15 is a pretty good pay check.  AC just hit its 10th anniversery.  That is 120 months at $15.  Why can't we have games that are more like the old style of play?  Having a newer, polished versions of Ac or DAoC would probably have a smaller base but live longer than most new games today.

Am I alone in this thinking?  Is there a huge difference in thinking of people that played pre-Wow and post-WoW?  Would love to get some feedback and hear what people are thinking.

oh oh.. you got real life issues? thats very unusual.. röfl moron

 

What is the point of you responing like that? I can almost guarantee that most anyone that think of some close friends that do not have to worry about anything but themselves.  Please if you are going to be a dick hole at least be funny or make a better point :-)

Originally posted by Gozzar

Originally posted by dromo003

      As a 23 year old male, married, child, house, real life issues (no of this actually matters but gives a view into me :-)) it has been harder and harder for me for mmo's to hold my interest for longer than a month.  I have always been a casual gamers, playing an hour, maybe two, a day.  Recently though, games just don't hold my attention.  My wife says I am growing up, but I thinks its the quality of games that are coming out.  Coming from Asheron's call in late '99, I have been around pre-WoW.  Don't get me wrong, WoW is a very polished game and has great market appeal, but as changed the world of mmo.  Looking at some stats for pre-WoW games, some of the most famous games had a very small amount of players.  Ac with 200k at its peak, EQ with 300k, DAoC with 500k.  Why must games try to have millions of people playing?  Games like WAR and Aion are failing because they make the game for millions and when the base isn't there they crumble. To me, 500k people a month paying $15 is a pretty good pay check.  AC just hit its 10th anniversery.  That is 120 months at $15.  Why can't we have games that are more like the old style of play?  Having a newer, polished versions of Ac or DAoC would probably have a smaller base but live longer than most new games today.

Am I alone in this thinking?  Is there a huge difference in thinking of people that played pre-Wow and post-WoW?  Would love to get some feedback and hear what people are thinking.

oh oh.. you got real life issues? thats very unusual.. röfl moron

 

Not to mention you have the typical forum poster who insults pretty much anyone without regard. 

Maybe you're like me, and not really so much tired of MMOs, but sick of games that breed the sort of community that has pissant douchebags like that Gozzar up there. 

Might as well face it; if you want to have any sort of 'real' life, you'll lose interest in MMOs.  All that time your sitting there, your wife is thinking you aren't doing anything, and if you haven't figured out yet, that you sitting doing nothing is a no-no.  That, plus you just really aren't going to want to sit on your ass for hours at a time.  As a parent, a homeowner and a husband, with a job, you'll discover that there is *always* something else you could be doing.  Always.  And with a continually full RL quest log, the ones in a game that really accomplish anything will start to feel pretty pointless and inconsequential. 

Originally posted by Eben

Maybe you're like me, and not really so much tired of MMOs, but sick of games that breed the sort of community that has pissant douchebags like that Gozzar up there. 

I couldn't have said it better.

^ lol

I felt the same way you do OP. No you aren't getting too old for games, it's just that the new breed of themepark MMOs suck. Hopefully one day people will get sick of them and quit buying them and developers can go back to making good MMOs.

Just do what I did and go back to playing the old-school MMOs until that day comes. They are still better then any of the new MMOs out. I have kept myself entertained the last year by playing UO, DAOC, SWG again.

Originally posted by shylock1079

Originally posted by Eben

Maybe you're like me, and not really so much tired of MMOs, but sick of games that breed the sort of community that has pissant douchebags like that Gozzar up there. 

 

I couldn't have said it better.

Neither could I.

I feel you though OP.  I am 24 myself, and started back in 99 with Everquest right after Kunark expansion came out.  DAOC also held my interested for 3 or so years and I relish in the memories of that game.

People use WoW as a turning point in mmo's for several reasons in my opinion.  When WoW came out, a lot of these now "a little older, but still immature gamers" were introduced to the MMO market.  They were the 14 year olds, the 12 year olds, the 10 year olds.  I was 14 when I first started playing everquest, and I admit, I wasn't the most mature player, but I was respectful and shared, but I also said dumb things.  I can see how the "chuck norris" boom took effect.  If that had been around when I was 14, I am sure I probably would have been a part of it.

But starting off with a game like everquest, I was a minority.  It seemed most everquest players I ran into were older, more mature people that seriously frowned upon my childhood antics.  So I learned quickly the ropes, what to say, and how to present myself in a MMO setting.

The problem with WoW was that it just brought a lot of little "sh*t heads" into the mmo community.  There was no "acceptable mmo behavior" and all these new MMOers created this new community where it is acceptable to flood region chat with dumb nonsense, or ninja loot and not care.  I am not saying these people weren't around before, it just wasn't accepted nor really tolerated from what I saw.

WoW also watered down the difficulty that MMOs generally would present and since it appealed to the masses, it just continued doing so.  Don't get me wrong though, WoW was great when it came out, I enjoyed the gameplay, now the community after a half a years release was less than desireable.

Also, as far as I know, WoW was the first mmo to have an actual telivised commercial.  When I first saw a WoW commercial I was stunned.  Never had I seen such a thing before.

I too miss the days of everquest, dark age of camelot, ultima online, asherons call.  I am sure we will eventually see some more great games spring up, but due to the "NEW AGE" mmo community brought upon by WoW, I don't hold my breath.

Even if such a game came along, I fear it would "blow up" like WoW did, the community would be ruined and if the developers are money hungry, it will end up getting watered down too.

Fallen Earth is an independent IP, and it has great ideas and the community isn't that bad at all.  It just is very very solo friendly with barely any real need to group with anyone.

It isn't just you my friend.  I am "growing up" as well.  Maybe we are just maturing beyond this addiction, or we just need a new good game to fill the eq/daoc/uo/ac void in our lives.  MMOs currently subscribed to? -  0.  I hope the new final fantasy, kotronline, or some other random MMO thats made by an indipendent company springs up can deliver and satisfy my lust for death, danger, risk and reward without all the griefing "new age" immature MMOers.

<Edit for clarification>  WoW didn't bring just bad people though, it also brought a lot of great people to the mmo market.  But it seems bad always outshines the good, and despite the good people it brought, the bad are just too overbearing and outspoken to ignore.  These now 16 and 18 year olds seem to act like they did when they first arrived in the MMO market, except that they have this "High horse" mentality about them, because they have a few years under their belts.  Noob this, Newb that, why talk crap when you could be helping people?  One thing that definetly has changed is how people treat new players.  Don't bash and talk trash on them, help them to learn.

-Sorry for length-

hehe to my knowledge this has been one of the best, whole hearted, and genuine bunch of replies on this site. (not gloating because i am the OP but w/e)  Honestly its not just WoW.  I have completly lost faith some companies such as NC Soft and SOE.  Hopefully the tide will turn and someone will take a chance or Mythic will give upbeing apart of EA and split off.  Someone needs to revamp an old game to save this genre. 

 "AC just hit its 10th anniversery.  That is 120 months at $15."

It wasn't $15 back then, more along the lines of $9.95., along with EQ (unless you did that LEGENDS server thing) and UO... not sure about Meridian 59.

inflation my friend ;-) but really most games now are 15 so using today's terms