What game has the best Talent tree system and why.

(Note in some games, this mechanic may not be called Talent tree but something else)

But what appels to you about that game's version of a Talent Tree?

If you mean skills and how you use them/get them as you level... then Ryzom is leagues ahead of most anything else in my books.

It's also the most complex I've ever tried though so  that doesn't appeal to many people.

Basically you don't get skills you get 'actions' like heavy attack, precision attack, defensive attack etc for melee... then match them with negative effects... like say 20mp cost or maybe 5mp 5hp... and voila you've just made your own skill... you can mix and match anything you want provided the end skill 'balances' out.

Best?  I don't know.

The 2 I remember the most:

CoX:  Each level you get to specialised 2 powers, or 1 twice...and every now and then you get a power.  It is simple, but it is addictive, and it works.  You level up, new power, new slots.  I think the enhancement where detering, since I didn't get the feeling the choice was really there, you have a few cookie cutter, might as well just have an automatic upgrade and focus on what work.  But, when they bring in the set...now, this was getting interesting.  The main advantage of this system are:  Casual, Simple, easy to figure...hard to master completely, yet easy to "succeed" and be decent too good.

EverQuest AAs:  Hate them as much as you want, but the ability to earn more XP to get precise bonuses where something I really did like...but this is extremely grindy.  But...I really like to get these...each of them...even the resists!  Afterall, many peoples on my server honestly think I was the first character to max the first 5 AAs trees...may or not have been the case, I wasn't competing, I was maxing it.  When they add the last 2 trees, I really had great fun, stopping to max the less "efficients AAs" to work on the new paths which where more worth it, before resuming the old ones...

Both of these systems have 1 big advantage:  EASY TO UNDERSTAND...the funniest thing is...CoX was harder too master, even if EQ was definitely longer and grindier.  (CoX is a rework of Diablo tree for those who still haven't figure that much out, but it was refined and improve a LOT).

UO skills system is awesome and so is Asheron's Call.    More games should have gone that route instead of what we're seeing in most games today.

either shadowbane or daoc

daoc had a very organized system, very straight foward (it was a while back don't really remember)

shadowbane had the best specialization options, like you could spec in swords and be a mage too

Something like WoW's talent tree system, and Warhammer's Skill Tree system. I know there are some other games out there with Skill tree systems. Whats your fav and why?

I liked Asheron's Call 2's skill system. You added to what you wanted, and if you didn't want that anymore you had to de-train and get experience to unlearn those skills. Also, you could go melee, and then specialize later into a magic-based tree. (Such as your basic skills were melee, and your advanced tree were one of the two magical specialization you could go.)

I think WoW's talent system is really hard to beat as well, it's simple and easy to understand. However, the game has been dumbed down so much that customization in the trees is all but lost. 

Titan Quest had the best talent tree/skill system of any game I've played.

WOW and Kingdom Hearts.

WOW for giving 3 playstyles per class which are nicely balanced (but done while continuing to provide tight, fun combat mechanics unlike games which provide an even greater variety of playstyles.)

Kingdom Hearts for being an excellent "modular" sort of system.  Not a MMORPG and the gameplay wasn't that amazing (never bothered beating it) but the advancement system was superb and inspired a lot of the design work I did on an RPG I worked on.

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

I think WoW's talent system is really hard to beat as well, it's simple and easy to understand. However, the game has been dumbed down so much that customization in the trees is all but lost. 

I'd argue that the majority of the reason it feels "dumbed down" is that thousands of players have sat there and calculated what the optimal builds are.

Seriously doubt many games could withstand the sheer amount of scrutiny and effort directed at solving WOW's combat formula and come out unscathed.  There are deeper games than WOW out there, where customization options are a little more flexible, but a lot of them would be just as "dumbed down" with thousands of players grinding the numbers to try to perfectly solve the combat formula.

My favorites have always been UO and WoW. 

I liked UO's a lot because there were quite a few skills that complimented other skills, such as trade skills making your combat skills stronger, it was a clever way to build a character.  For example the Nox Mage.  You maxed your typical magery skills and along with it you would max the trade skill of Poisoning.  In return this would give your poison spell a chance to inflict deadly poison on your target.  There were a crazy amount of different combinations you could do to build a character that's just one small example.

I liked WoW's because each class had 3 in depth trees that gave a unique style to each build.  Min/maxing was very important in where you put your points.  It was great to see really skilled players show the potential of a mediocre build because it fit a particular style, where as a lot of people of that class couldn't even do it if they tried.

Ill have to (loathingly and reluctantly) agree that WOW offers a varied system, even if most specs do make for cookie cutter builds... Personally i prefer small, but meaningful, variations. You shouldnt be required to read a guide or experiment with numerous alts to achieve a competitive build.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

I think WoW's talent system is really hard to beat as well, it's simple and easy to understand. However, the game has been dumbed down so much that customization in the trees is all but lost. 

I'd argue that the majority of the reason it feels "dumbed down" is that thousands of players have sat there and calculated what the optimal builds are.

Seriously doubt many games could withstand the sheer amount of scrutiny and effort directed at solving WOW's combat formula and come out unscathed.  There are deeper games than WOW out there, where customization options are a little more flexible, but a lot of them would be just as "dumbed down" with thousands of players grinding the numbers to try to perfectly solve the combat formula.

No, it's actually because Blizzard keeps slimming the trees down and streamlining them in order to support that perfect build.  The players look for it, but only because Blizzard makes it that way.  Plus the way they've inflated the trees and made the final talents so important reduces the viability of splitting your points between multiple trees.  Consider something like the Druid Resto tree.  In the early days, a Druid healer would split fairly evenly between Resto and Balance, now if you don't take at least 51 points (obviously impossible back when there were 20 fewer levels worth of talents), you're not able to really function.  Add to this the focus on smaller and smaller groups, a specific build becomes even more needed.  Everything about Blizzard's design for the past few years has stripped out customized talent builds.

AC2 hands down; it actually changed your class to a certain extent. You could go from an attack mage to a CC mage with a respec.

But the extent of the change created balance issues, it is hard enough as it is to ensure balance without having such game altering respecs available. So I am more conservative on power trees now, AoC or WoW is pitched about right.

Having read the post above, I am talking about old school WoW it seems.