Originally posted by Ginkeq

God forbid someone ever criticize features of games that COULD HAVE BEEN GOOD.  Maybe we shouldn't criticize anything about any MMORPG, so we get lousy MMORPGs with broken features and bad ideas. 

My point in making this post was to expose the broken skill system in EVE, and other problems with the game.  By doing that, I inform others about why EVE is a bad game.  Maybe CCP will someday realize that MMORPGs should allow players to advance by playing it.  But they took a different route and are catering to people who don't invest any time in MMORPGs.  

The same type of person who pays someone to level their character from 1-60 because logging in and leveling is just too unreasonable and time consuming.  Clearly MMORPGs shouldn't require any time investment.   Is that really who MMORPGs should target? 

I'd really hate it if more MMORPGs came out with a system similar to EVEs.  Sure the people here are fine with it, they play the game.  They already have months/years into their character, so the system is fine.  Just think about why your game is not popular, and why WoW has 100x more people than EVE.  It's because WoW and other MMORPGs don't have broken leveling systems like EVE does.

The skill system isn't broken, most of us who play the game think its brilliant, and wish more games were like it.  Just because you don't care for it doesn't make it defective.

You continue to talk smack about EVE players not putting any time into the game.  There are people who play 14 hours a day like the guy who runs the wormhole I operate out of, (which isn't healthy btw) and people who play less.  We put as much time (if not more) than any gamer out there.  We just don't waste time on training our skills, we work on other stuff.

You did have one valid point, you can buy/sell characters in EVE for ISK. I don't do it, (most foiks don't because they are very expensive).  But you can buy characters (legally or otherwise) for any other game so your argument is specious.

WOW is popular for many reasons, but I won't bother listing them here. (go ask Zorndorf, he'll be happy to share)  EVE is unpopular to many people, that's fine too.  No one said we all have to play the popular games, and no one said you have to play EVE.  It caters to a certain mindset, and you don't have it. (that is neither a good or bad thing, you are just wired differently)

Oh this just aint freakin right!

---

Originally posted by Ginkeq
Sorry you EVE people can't understand things from my point of view, all you have to do is say troll because you can't put up any legitimate arguments.

---

Wheter you like the game or not is just a matter of personal preference, there is no place for arguments in subjective affiliation.

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

If and when you "beat" Eve please send us a telegram.

We'd love to know at what point the "beating" occurs.

I'm willing to bet you have a lot more experience with "beating" than the average Eve player.

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

I'm willing to bet he's got that printed on a T-Shirt.

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

Now that was a really fine post X-Porter......

Well done.

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by comerb

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

 

Heh, I've been playing on and off for 5 years and I still don't consider myself "good".  The fact you think otherwise shows that you've never taken the game seriously, and that you have a incredibly small understanding of the overall game in general.

Why things work the way they work has been explained to you.  That you continuously latch on to this delusion that you can never "catch up" in skill-points and that somehow makes other players better than you at every aspect of the game is pretty exasperating.  It's as clear as day, and your either too obstinate or just plain stupid to see it.

I'm done with this thread.  It would be easier to explain advanced physics to a retarded monkey.  Maybe that's people say Eve has an intelligence threshold. 

 

I'll admit I didn't play the game for 5 years, because the skill advancement system drove me off.  I remember having to wait at least a week for skill-ups just to fly a certain ship (which I could have bought 4 times over).  

What is too exasperating?  Too bad whenever EVE fans try to respond to my argument they don't respond with an actual argument, instead they either call me a troll, a newb, stupid, etc. 

I'd say the people who are stupid are the ones who can't even put up a decent argument for why that skill-advancement system makes sense.  All you guys do is ignore the fact that CCP are idiots and put it an idiotic skill system only there for casual carebears who are willing to maintain subscriptions for very long times (without having to actually play the game.)

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.  I was farming AQ40 when most people were wiping in molten core.  You think you are a better player than me?  You who are playing a game that does not even require any time investment at all.  A game that just bases everything off of length of subscription.  And I'm the stupid one?  Lol.

And when player A can fly 10 ships just as well as player B can fly one, I would say player A has a better character.  Even if B can fly at the same level as A in only 1 ship, player A is more versatile and their character is better.  Their character is better only because they have a subscription 10 times as long as you.  

Sorry EVE players can't handle games that require logging in and playing. 

And yeah you can stop responding to me, because you lost the argument.  EVE does have an intelligence threshold like you say, but it's probably not the people above that threshold who are playing it.  I certainly wouldn't play an MMORPG where you investing time and effort into your character is not as important as having kept a subscription for several years.

First, I will admit the game starts slow(the first month specifically).  I'm not a fan of learning skills, and I think a lot of the core skills should probably be trained to a respectable level (say level 2) when you generate a character. However, that doesn't change the fact that within 3 months you can be directly competing with veteran players in several different important ship-classes(if you specialize your training).  And within a single week, you can be contributing to a fleet thats filled with veteran players.  I don't know of a single other game that has such a quick turnover to allow players to get involved in real action.

Now, I'll comment on a couple of your points.

1) You can't beat Eve. You're taking a skewed WoW player perspective and trying to attach it to Eve.  And yes, I at one point had a full T6 geared hunter in WoW, so your arm pumping means nothing to me.  I know how many bad players we carried all the way through Kil'jaeden.  It hardly matters anyway, because qualities that make a good WoW raider have absolutely nothing to do with what makes a good Eve player.  Again, you show your ignorance.

2)   You can't blindly say "the only argument Eve players give is that other players are stupid" while ignoring a large post I made explaining to you, in detail, exactly why the skill system works.  Just because you want to ignore content ladden posts because addressing them would make your look like an ass, doesn't mean they don't exist.

3)  Who the hell cares if player "A" can fly eleventy billion ships.  When your both staring down the barrel at each-other, you'll be on level playing field.  Hell, player "B" is actually at an advantage because he probably uses his ship of choice enough that he's simply a better pilot in it.  I don't understand your obsession with SP totals, it must be a power-gamer thing.  Is it really that important to wave your e-peen around?

Just keep on ignoring posts that explain why the system works the way it works.  It makes your inane "nobody can give me a reason" argument much more believable that way.

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

Here's another solid post for the reasons why.  

Just to add to this, when you make a game all about progression (via skillpoints or levels) it takes away from the soul of the game.  It makes the entire game about grinding skill-points or levels, and casts a shadow over the real important gameplay elements.

I play Eve to actually play Eve.  Not to grind skill point or levels.  It's refreshing.

Guys it's just a waste of time trying to explain what EVE is to him. His simplistic mind can't wrap a thought about EVE in any conceivable way. He has his mind set for a certain type of game play and can't expand beyond that.

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

 

I'm willing to bet he's got that printed on a T-Shirt.

 

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

A long and meaningless post..

You can't skill up because you can't exercise certain skills?  Ever hear of AA abilities in EQ?  Let the players invest exp into what skills they want.  At least other MMORPGs aren't complete garbage and allow people to invest time/effort into their characters for gains.  

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Ginkeq

God forbid someone ever criticize features of games that COULD HAVE BEEN GOOD.  Maybe we shouldn't criticize anything about any MMORPG, so we get lousy MMORPGs with broken features and bad ideas. 

My point in making this post was to expose the broken skill system in EVE, and other problems with the game.  By doing that, I inform others about why EVE is a bad game.  Maybe CCP will someday realize that MMORPGs should allow players to advance by playing it.  But they took a different route and are catering to people who don't invest any time in MMORPGs.  

The same type of person who pays someone to level their character from 1-60 because logging in and leveling is just too unreasonable and time consuming.  Clearly MMORPGs shouldn't require any time investment.   Is that really who MMORPGs should target? 

I'd really hate it if more MMORPGs came out with a system similar to EVEs.  Sure the people here are fine with it, they play the game.  They already have months/years into their character, so the system is fine.  Just think about why your game is not popular, and why WoW has 100x more people than EVE.  It's because WoW and other MMORPGs don't have broken leveling systems like EVE does.

The skill system isn't broken, most of us who play the game think its brilliant, and wish more games were like it.  Just because you don't care for it doesn't make it defective.

You continue to talk smack about EVE players not putting any time into the game.  There are people who play 14 hours a day like the guy who runs the wormhole I operate out of, (which isn't healthy btw) and people who play less.  We put as much time (if not more) than any gamer out there.  We just don't waste time on training our skills, we work on other stuff.

You did have one valid point, you can buy/sell characters in EVE for ISK. I don't do it, (most foiks don't because they are very expensive).  But you can buy characters (legally or otherwise) for any other game so your argument is specious.

WOW is popular for many reasons, but I won't bother listing them here. (go ask Zorndorf, he'll be happy to share)  EVE is unpopular to many people, that's fine too.  No one said we all have to play the popular games, and no one said you have to play EVE.  It caters to a certain mindset, and you don't have it. (that is neither a good or bad thing, you are just wired differently)

 

If EVE players invested a lot of time into their character there would be no point in playing EVE because they would be at a disadvantage compared to ebayers etc. who maintain long subscriptions to the game or buy characters/ISK.

So my view is that EVE is for the lazy MMORPG players who are too lazy to log into the MMORPG and do anything.  If they log on for anything its just to put a few points in a skill queue and come back in a week.  

I can see why you think it's brilliant if you are a person who plays an MMORPG 5 minutes a week.  That way someone more skilled / dedicated than you can't catch up to you.  Of course you like it.

CCP allows you to buy ISK / characters for a reason.  Their game probably wouldn't work without it.  I bet most EVE players just level skills for very long times then sell their character after a year.  That is who keeps EVE popular

EVE is unpopular because it sucks, and CCP had to choose an idiotic skill advancement system.  A space MMORPG and they ruin it with idiotic ideas...

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by X-Porter

Originally posted by Ginkeq 

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.

 

I'm willing to bet he's got that printed on a T-Shirt.

 

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

A long and meaningless post..

You can't skill up because you can't exercise certain skills?  Ever hear of AA abilities in EQ?  Let the players invest exp into what skills they want.  At least other MMORPGs aren't complete garbage and allow people to invest time/effort into their characters for gains.  

Aren't you up past your bedtime?  Give it a rest, you've lost the argument.  (heck, you don't even know what the argument is about)

People do invest their skill points into the skills they want, they just don't have to hit a tree to do it.

Give it up already.

You got totally owned in this thread.

The only reason this thread has any heat is because you broke the rules and posted this in General forum.

If you had placed this post in Eve forums you would have been dismantled in 30 posts or less.

You know nothing of Eve, You can't wrap your head around it's mechanics and why people like it.

So give up and dream about your glory days in EQ.

Have fun "Beating" your mmos, whatever that means.

I'm glad Eve turned away another "Power gamer".

Originally posted by comerb

Originally posted by Ginkeq

Originally posted by comerb

It's also funny how the EVE people respond with "The player who doesn't play much won't have much ISK or Experience".  These are extremely weak arguments.  It might take me a week of playing EVE before I figure out how to play it good, you don't need 6 months of playtime to figure out something. 

 

Heh, I've been playing on and off for 5 years and I still don't consider myself "good".  The fact you think otherwise shows that you've never taken the game seriously, and that you have a incredibly small understanding of the overall game in general.

Why things work the way they work has been explained to you.  That you continuously latch on to this delusion that you can never "catch up" in skill-points and that somehow makes other players better than you at every aspect of the game is pretty exasperating.  It's as clear as day, and your either too obstinate or just plain stupid to see it.

I'm done with this thread.  It would be easier to explain advanced physics to a retarded monkey.  Maybe that's people say Eve has an intelligence threshold. 

 

I'll admit I didn't play the game for 5 years, because the skill advancement system drove me off.  I remember having to wait at least a week for skill-ups just to fly a certain ship (which I could have bought 4 times over).  

What is too exasperating?  Too bad whenever EVE fans try to respond to my argument they don't respond with an actual argument, instead they either call me a troll, a newb, stupid, etc. 

I'd say the people who are stupid are the ones who can't even put up a decent argument for why that skill-advancement system makes sense.  All you guys do is ignore the fact that CCP are idiots and put it an idiotic skill system only there for casual carebears who are willing to maintain subscriptions for very long times (without having to actually play the game.)

I've beaten every MMORPG I've ever played.  I was farming AQ40 when most people were wiping in molten core.  You think you are a better player than me?  You who are playing a game that does not even require any time investment at all.  A game that just bases everything off of length of subscription.  And I'm the stupid one?  Lol.

And when player A can fly 10 ships just as well as player B can fly one, I would say player A has a better character.  Even if B can fly at the same level as A in only 1 ship, player A is more versatile and their character is better.  Their character is better only because they have a subscription 10 times as long as you.  

Sorry EVE players can't handle games that require logging in and playing. 

And yeah you can stop responding to me, because you lost the argument.  EVE does have an intelligence threshold like you say, but it's probably not the people above that threshold who are playing it.  I certainly wouldn't play an MMORPG where you investing time and effort into your character is not as important as having kept a subscription for several years.

First, I will admit the game starts slow(the first month specifically).  I'm not a fan of learning skills, and I think a lot of the core skills should probably be trained to a respectable level (say level 2) when you generate a character. However, that doesn't change the fact that within 3 months you can be directly competing with veteran players in several different important ship-classes(if you specialize your training).  And within a single week, you can be contributing to a fleet thats filled with veteran players.  I don't know of a single other game that has such a quick turnover to allow players to get involved in real action.

Now, I'll comment on a couple of your points.

1) You can't beat Eve. You're taking a skewed WoW player perspective and trying to attach it to Eve.  And yes, I at one point had a full T6 geared hunter in WoW, so your arm pumping means nothing to me.  I know how many bad players we carried all the way through Kil'jaeden.  It hardly matters anyway, because qualities that make a good WoW raider have absolutely nothing to do with what makes a good Eve player.  Again, you show your ignorance.

2)   You can't blindly say "the only argument Eve players give is that other players are stupid" while ignoring a large post I made explaining to you, in detail, exactly why the skill system works.  Just because you want to ignore content ladden posts because addressing them would make your look like an ass, doesn't mean they don't exist.

3)  Who the hell cares if player "A" can fly eleventy billion ships.  When your both staring down the barrel at each-other, you'll be on level playing field.  Hell, player "B" is actually at an advantage because he probably uses his ship of choice enough that he's simply a better pilot in it.  I don't understand your obsession with SP totals, it must be a power-gamer thing.  Is it really that important to wave your e-peen around?

 

Just keep on ignoring posts that explain why the system works the way it works.  It makes your inane "nobody can give me a reason" argument much more believable that way.

Lol @ Tier 6.  Tier 6 is after they nerfed the game several times because almost every guild was getting beaten by trash mobs in BWL and MC.

Anyway

1) Who cares if the EVE and WoW endgame are different?  EVE is based off of subscription times, and amount of money you give to CCP.  It has nothing to do with time/effort investment

2) I understand the system perfectly well.  The longer you maintain a subscription, the better your character is, regardless of playtime

3)  I do care, why does some newbie deserve to have a better character just because they played the game longer?  That doesn't mean they are good.  Sometimes people who play MMORPGs heavily suck at them.  Should they be given the best, most capable characters in the game?  CCP is suhc a stupid company, they couldn't put in a system that would weed out bad players, so they just give everything to people based on subscription lengths.

Anyone starting EVE now would be like having a permanent level 50 in a game where there are 60 levels.  Always be behind, no matter how hard you try.. because some lazy player had a subscription longer and CCP sucks

Originally posted by metalhead980

Give it up already.

You got totally owned in this thread.

The only reason this thread has any heat is because you broke the rules and posted this in General forum.

If you had placed this post in Eve forums you would have been dismantled in 30 posts or less.

You know nothing of Eve, You can't wrap your head around it's mechanics and why people like it.

So give up and dream about your glory days in EQ.

Have fun "Beating" your mmos, whatever that means.

I'm glad Eve turned away another "Power gamer".

 

 

Yeah, EVE is just a game for ebayers and people who can't handle real MMORPGs

Anyone who likes a model where you don't even have to log in to advance your character has to be either the ebayer-type or lazy.

Those are the people who like EVE

Obviously the people posting here are biased, but I will win this argument regardless because EVE is a broken game. 

Wrap my head around game mechanics? Lol.  Like it takes more than a couple of days to figure out EVE.  An MMORPG like Maple Story has more sophisticated game mechanics than EVE.  

Originally posted by comerb

But, since the OP seems  upset by the fact that no one has told him why EVE's skill system is the way it is, I'll let him in on the secret.

Ready?

The skill system is the way it is because it's the best choice for a game that allows all the options EVE allows.

You want to gain combat skills by combat, correct? Sure that sounds great! So you hop in a ship and take a mission and fire lasers at NPC's to raise your Energy Turret skills. Kewl. I'm not sure how you skill up stuff like Sharpshooting or Motion Prediction. Maybe just lump all the skills together under "Laser Guns"? Or do you just reduce all the turret and weapon type skills together to "Gunnery"?

Then you'll want to raise your Shield skills. Go find a mission where the NPC's deal EM damage and raise your EM Resistance. Or do all the Shield skills get dumped together too? Actually, why worry at all? Just go somewhere quiet and duel a fellow guildmember and both use lasers! Skills for both of you will be maxed in no time! Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

Oh, wait. No, this is the "Bloodwall" problem that Darkfail ran into. My mistake.

Of course, now the economy is buggered. You gain Manufacturing skills by building stuff. So everyone buys Tritanium and starts making small ammo. The market for ammo is ruined, Tritanium goes thru the roof, manufacturers go broke because it costs more for raw materials than you can get for finished products. The economy ends up like FFXI where people stand in line for the shops to open to buy up all the Arrowwood Lumber to craft arrows no one wants. Or, just sell the lumber for an inflated price.

I can't begin to imagine how Marketeer players would level up. Put stuff up for sale and then buy it back yourself? Now this is a system that rewards players for logging in and playing!

The OP complains that EVE doesn't reward players for logging in and playing. That assumption is false. It makes the mistake of equating skill gains with rewards. Skills aren't rewards in EVE. Winning a fight for your Corp, cornering the market, or ransoming a transport ship are the rewards. Skilling up is just something that happens along the way rather than being the result of "Kill X Sansha and bring back Y Prisoners", or shooting 100 more rats with your missiles.

That's why everyone says you're doing it wrong. You are.

 

Here's another solid post for the reasons why.  

Just to add to this, when you make a game all about progression (via skillpoints or levels) it takes away from the soul of the game.  It makes the entire game about grinding skill-points or levels, and casts a shadow over the real important gameplay elements.

I play Eve to actually play Eve.  Not to grind skill point or levels.  It's refreshing.

And EVE isn't about levels?  Why does it take a year to get a decent character then?  How are you progressing?  Is that not levels?

Obviously it does have levels, it's just in the form of subscription time.  The people who have a subscription longer to EVE advance more than people with shorter subscription times. 

If EVE was about "playing EVE", they would take the whole time-based skill thing out of the game entirely, but they didn't.  

Also, what do you call the mission system in EVE if it is not grinding?  I guess allowing players to do 1000s of quests doesn't encourage grinding ISK.  

Grinding is in EVE

You play EVE to play EVE, lol..  A game that doesn't even require you to log in for it to work for you.  Sounds like EVE plays for you, you just keep that subscription going, what a worthless MMO

And EVE isn't about levels?  Why does it take a year to get a decent character then?  How are you progressing?  Is that not levels?

Obviously it does have levels, it's just in the form of subscription time.  The people who have a subscription longer to EVE advance more than people with shorter subscription times. 

If EVE was about "playing EVE", they would take the whole time-based skill thing out of the game entirely, but they didn't.  

Also, what do you call the mission system in EVE if it is not grinding?  I guess allowing players to do 1000s of quests doesn't encourage grinding ISK.  

Grinding is in EVE

 

You play EVE to play EVE, lol..  A game that doesn't even require you to log in for it to work for you.  Sounds like EVE plays for you, you just keep that subscription going, what a worthless MMOd

 

It takes 3 months to have a decent character, capable of competing with veteran player.   It takes 2 weeks to be useful.  It's more forgiving than any other MMO in that regard.

Leveling skills isn't "playing" Eve.  Grinding missions isn't playing Eve. Macro mining isn't playing Eve.  Is English a second language for you or something?  Do we need an interpreter to break this down for you?  

Playing Eve is:

Nulsec Warfare, Wormholes, Pirating, Faction Warfare, high yield trading, playing the market, finding an industrial need, scanning down target/anomolies, small gang warfare, Wardecs, monopolizing a market, corp politics, diplomacy, alliances,  spy games, covert ops, low sec hauling, mercenaries,  economic warfare, controlling space lanes, destroying supply lines, etc etc

All that is a hell of a lot more fun than watching an experience bar tick tick tick

Mining in high sec and grinding missions isn't playing Eve.  .  Anyone would have a jaded opinion of the game if thats all they did.

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Originally posted by comerb
Mining in high sec and grinding missions isn't playing Eve.

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It is a one of many ways how to play the game, no 0.0 PVP or any other playstyle is better - they are all equal.

It's not that the game sucks i tryed it really a ok game 2 me it's just that you didn't like it so there for it sucks. If i used that reason then you suck to. People really need to do something besides posting omg I didnt't like it so there for it sucks.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by comerb
Mining in high sec and grinding missions isn't playing Eve.

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It is a one of many ways how to play the game, no 0.0 PVP or any other playstyle is better - they are all equal.

your grasping at straws now