I have something to get off my chest, you might want to just not read this, because it will basically accuse you and everyone you know of enslaving humanity.

It would seem to me that we're all born into dependency. Dependence on a system of dollar bills. What if you wanted to provide for your family without money? What if you wanted to live independatly from the system? You would be lost. It is exceedingly unlikely for any of us to survive without the system.

Look at all of the progress we have accomplished and technology we have developed. Which would you say is progressing, we or the system? With each generation we become even more and more dependant on the system, our children will be born slaves to it. Each dollar you earn and each dollar you spend sends humanity further and further unto slavery. Men go to church on sunday to pray for deliverance from bondage, only to go to work on monday to fetter himself further in it.

For one man to succeed, he must excel in his company. He must provide for ways for that company to profit. But all of that ultimately translates to how to rip off as many people as possible. Even the earth itself is being ripped off.
Trivial changes like a popular 6 pack box of food packages being changed into a 10 "snack pack" box which costs more, provides less product, and generates more waste, all so that the masses might be misled by seeing 6 vs 10, multiplied by every motive in every company in every country on the planet, results in a self defeating way of thinking. Each individual piece of the puzzle is relatively innocent, but the big picture is starting to look pretty damn ugly.

Even taking out of the equation the poison of greed, products fueled by demand to make our lives easier will also ultimately make us weaker, we can't afford to ignore it anymore.  Life seems easy and carefree at times because we're built to survive much worse conditions than we're facing now.  That may be fine to your fat ass, but what does it mean for your children?  Evolution is broken, and humanity cheers on each new nail as it's hammered into their own coffins, each new product to enslave us faster.

Pharmaceutical companies, in the name of all mighty greed and profits, would not hesitate to sell any drug which could be marketed, despite the unforseen long term effects, which even if discovered would be covered up. Pharmaceutical companies aren't in the business of cures, but treatments. Who would profit from selling 1 pill? Wouldn't it be better to sell the poor fuck pills until he can't afford anymore? for the rest of his life if possible? I wouldn't doubt if cures have been suppressed for this very reason, nor would I be surprised if diseases are being engineered.  What is progressing? man or his dependance on drugs? Think of it, If pharmaceutical companies profit when they come up with supplements for medical deficiencies, then many supplements will be generated over a long course of time. But this may be all fine and dandy for us pill chocking greedy bastards, but for later generations will only create chemical dependencies on top of everything else.

The man who comes up with ways to mislead and rip off the masses succeeds in his company. Companies who screw over the most people are the most successful. Companies may jack up prices to rip people off, or undercut the competition to rip them off. People go to school only to learn how to benefit the system. This is not progress. The people are only becoming more dependant on the system, while the system is only becoming more efficient at enslaving the people.  The only thing that ever improves is the system itself.  All of this in the name of greed and profits despite the obvious consequences it brings to future generations, but who gives a shit about them?  Our world has molded us to thrive on greed, for only they succeed.

In another thread I read about a girl being raped while everyone watched, and I couldn't help but to think that when evolution has turned from survival in our world to survival in the machine of greed and profits, it's no wonder that this new generation seems intent on screwing each other and ruining their future in the process.  These are the types of people we are breeding here, so why is everyone surprised?

I might be coming off as a doomsayer, but doom is hardly a fitting description for where we're headed.  I don't claim to have the answers, and I realize that I'm going against just about every freaking person in the world, including multiple fundamentals to our way of life. But to me it can't be denied that the system in which we live, and by which we depend is self defeating, and from that system humanity will only receive SLAVERY.

Slave is a relative word.  It depends on someone's own definition of complete freedom.

So you may be one, but I may not be.

So to answer your initial question.  No, we are not slaves, because I doubt everyone would consider themselves one.

Of course we are born into dependency.  The only way that it could be otherwise is if we were starting from scratch.  So move on past that because the only thing you can do about it is make it more fair for everyone. 

We are not dependent on a  system of dollar bills, we are dependent on a system of exchanges of goods and services.  Money is the way we interact with those services.  Now it would be possible for you to strike out on your own and live on the land, hunting animals and eating berries but the problem is that there is someone else that owns the property that you wish to hunt on.  At first you might think well screw them, I want to do what I want.  But how is it their fault that they were born into that situation.  Just by chance your going to hold it against them?  That's not very fair.  So then you have to barter with them to live on thier land.  Either you provide a service to them or you give them money. 

For the man that goes to church just to go to work the next day, how do you expect him to live?  Someone else will just come and grow his food and provide for him?  Or will he have to do it himself?  If he chooses to do it himself then he can go about it in a myriad of ways, plumbing, electrical, accounting, or any other method of work to earn money to do with what he wants.  You think people fall into bondage only because they spend what they do not have.  We must all work to survive, that's a given and if you think otherwise, buck up buttercup. 

You also seem to have a view that every man is evil.  Why can it not be that people goto work in a company trying to do the best they can and provide the best servies that they can?  You only believe in the greater evil instead of believeing in the greater good of the human spirit. 

People buy into the newest gadgest because they wish to fill some void that they have in whatever way they can, drugs, tv, games whatever.  Talk to people that ride bikes in parks, mountain climb or go fishing and ask them how they find their happiness.  Some people also look to God for fulfillment, you choose your own way. 

Your filled with doom because that's all that you choose to see in humanity.  Instead of reading the news every day why not focus on finding yourself, enjoying nature or going out and meeting people.  Shift your focus to the good of people and don't hold everyone to the same standards that you have yourself.  Some people might not have come to the same understanding you have yet, and instead of thinking the worst of them, instead try and bring them to your level instead of writing everyone else off. 

Good luck.  Life is what you make of it.  It is possible to be a slave to the world, or you can enjoy what you can, work the hardest that you can for a fair wage and do what you want to do. 

We are not slaves yet, but if Sabian and his allies on this forum have their way, we will be.

Agreed with Sarg and Sab.

There's little point in citing dependence upon one system considering the only alternative is to live by another system. Having to forage for berries all over again is just another thing you could deem yourself subject to and thus a slave with a similar line of logic.

There's obliging to systems and there's obeying them. One of the Texans here started a thread months ago about how there's alternative communities in Texas that live by a barter system. Nothing stops you from going to a dented can system yourself if you don't feel like using our a nation's system of currency, but since you oblige yourself to, that sounds like your will enacted to me and liberty instead of slavery.

In short, I don't believe we're born into slavery by and large. We're born into liberty.

Originally posted by Fishermage

We are not slaves yet, but if Sabian and his allies on this forum have their way, we will be.

Dude, new guy posting in this area, at least first in a while, comes in and makes a topic.  Some are trying to reason and shine the light, you use it for personal attacks.  Not cool. 

Lets all wait untill Post Health Care Bill Passage before we decide on being born into slavery in the US, ok fellahs?

Originally posted by Sargoth

Originally posted by Fishermage

We are not slaves yet, but if Sabian and his allies on this forum have their way, we will be.

 

Dude, new guy posting in this area, at least first in a while, comes in and makes a topic.  Some are trying to reason and shine the light, you use it for personal attacks.  Not cool. 

Respectfully disagree. Guy asks if we are slaves, and I respond that we aren't yet. We aren't yet because people like Sabian and the other people who believe in fascism/socialism on this forum haven't had their way yet. This is a political forum where that is the subject we discuss here.

That's just a commentary on their views and how they amount to slavery. Not cool that they feel this way, but cool that I am against it.

Notice how Sabian answered: you are only a slave if you believe yourself to be. Pure relativism, which allows him to advocate slavery. Capiche?

The only way for a person to be a true slave is to stop wanting to make themselves better in any direction they choose to do so.

When a person loses sight of what is important for them that's when they are truly vulnerable into abandoning their freedom.

Originally posted by Tymoris

The only way for a person to be a true slave is to stop wanting to make themselves better in any direction they choose to do so.

When a person loses sight of what is important for them that's when they are truly vulnerable into abandoning their freedom.

Yep. A precursor to slavery is alienating our own liberties first, and liberty amounts to our personal will and available rights to them. So it's largely about self-evaluation and the situations we're in personally, and whether we're willingly in those situations.

At that rate you could say people are slaves to their desire to live, if I didn't work to get money to buy food I would have to hunt for it or some alternative like trade directly, either way I still have to go and do some action to get what I need, I am dependent on the earth or another person, I am never in direct control of my own self there is always compromise.
 

Also about becomming weaker by using modern conveniences, not true at all, we survive much better than you could in the past and even have time to make liesure, the environment does not control us as much as it use to we control our own evolution, sure there are tensions between people at times, but things like drug companies do lots of good for humanity, they develope drugs to cure disease and control problems that without them we would surely die, without the companies making medicine we would be weaker, you would probably be dead.  The fact that someone has the privledge to form a chemical addiction shows that how much we benefit from it, there is so much medicine people can use it to get high, good thing in my book.

I don't think the world is full of greedy people controlling the dumb sheep, there is a symbiotic relationship, yes they make lots of money but we get the 10 pack of snack food, it is win win.

You seem to have lots of issues with modern society and technology, look into Anarcho Primitivism.  You might like it.

Do as much as possible to fly under the radar..Buy silver coins.

Dead Goverment walking

We still have much freedom,you only participate if you chose

Soon

 we call this a divorce

sooner..Its going nuclear.

We call this unsustainable.

Slavery means you have no choice. Nobody forces you to live in the modern materialistic society. There's no master that won't let you move to Nicaragua and live in a tent eating rabbits you hunt yourself.

Originally posted by heremypet

I have something to get off my chest, you might want to just not read this, because it will basically accuse you and everyone you know of enslaving humanity.

It would seem to me that we're all born into dependency. Dependence on a system of dollar bills. What if you wanted to provide for your family without money? What if you wanted to live independatly from the system? You would be lost. It is exceedingly unlikely for any of us to survive without the system.

Look at all of the progress we have accomplished and technology we have developed. Which would you say is progressing, we or the system? With each generation we become even more and more dependant on the system, our children will be born slaves to it. Each dollar you earn and each dollar you spend sends humanity further and further unto slavery. Men go to church on sunday to pray for deliverance from bondage, only to go to work on monday to fetter himself further in it.

For one man to succeed, he must excel in his company. He must provide for ways for that company to profit. But all of that ultimately translates to how to rip off as many people as possible. Even the earth itself is being ripped off.
Trivial changes like a popular 6 pack box of food packages being changed into a 10 "snack pack" box which costs more, provides less product, and generates more waste, all so that the masses might be misled by seeing 6 vs 10, multiplied by every motive in every company in every country on the planet, results in a self defeating way of thinking. Each individual piece of the puzzle is relatively innocent, but the big picture is starting to look pretty damn ugly.

Even taking out of the equation the poison of greed, products fueled by demand to make our lives easier will also ultimately make us weaker, we can't afford to ignore it anymore.  Life seems easy and carefree at times because we're built to survive much worse conditions than we're facing now.  That may be fine to your fat ass, but what does it mean for your children?  Evolution is broken, and humanity cheers on each new nail as it's hammered into their own coffins, each new product to enslave us faster.

Pharmaceutical companies, in the name of all mighty greed and profits, would not hesitate to sell any drug which could be marketed, despite the unforseen long term effects, which even if discovered would be covered up. Pharmaceutical companies aren't in the business of cures, but treatments. Who would profit from selling 1 pill? Wouldn't it be better to sell the poor fuck pills until he can't afford anymore? for the rest of his life if possible? I wouldn't doubt if cures have been suppressed for this very reason, nor would I be surprised if diseases are being engineered.  What is progressing? man or his dependance on drugs? Think of it, If pharmaceutical companies profit when they come up with supplements for medical deficiencies, then many supplements will be generated over a long course of time. But this may be all fine and dandy for us pill chocking greedy bastards, but for later generations will only create chemical dependencies on top of everything else.

The man who comes up with ways to mislead and rip off the masses succeeds in his company. Companies who screw over the most people are the most successful. Companies may jack up prices to rip people off, or undercut the competition to rip them off. People go to school only to learn how to benefit the system. This is not progress. The people are only becoming more dependant on the system, while the system is only becoming more efficient at enslaving the people.  The only thing that ever improves is the system itself.  All of this in the name of greed and profits despite the obvious consequences it brings to future generations, but who gives a shit about them?  Our world has molded us to thrive on greed, for only they succeed.

In another thread I read about a girl being raped while everyone watched, and I couldn't help but to think that when evolution has turned from survival in our world to survival in the machine of greed and profits, it's no wonder that this new generation seems intent on screwing each other and ruining their future in the process.  These are the types of people we are breeding here, so why is everyone surprised?

I might be coming off as a doomsayer, but doom is hardly a fitting description for where we're headed.  I don't claim to have the answers, and I realize that I'm going against just about every freaking person in the world, including multiple fundamentals to our way of life. But to me it can't be denied that the system in which we live, and by which we depend is self defeating, and from that system humanity will only receive SLAVERY.

I read and can feel every word of what you have written.

I am not in this place now, but I was, and actually gained some energy to try a different approach. If you experience this,

I would encourage you to first take prudent measures to reduce the amount of drag (debt, etc) on yourself first, seriously think about creating a personal evironment, that has less drag, and then, perhaps share/ help, others, to a small degree,,, FOR YOU

If I am way off base, please forgive. And this next made up parable, Please forgive as well.

The eagle chic, is horrified when its mother drops it into thin air, yet to survive it must fly, tho the nest IS kind and warm. The struggle of life is so unfair, yet without alternative.

And this also the mother thought when she first learned to fly.

I know I know,dumb, but it's that or eat our young.

I'd like to ask the OP a question, when in the history of humanity do you think we weren't slaves? After all we are slaves to necessity like all living creatures.

Where we were once slaves to mother nature, we've learnt to harness her better, in return we've become slaves to the mighty $. I think there is no such thing as true freedom only degrees of it. To quote a great singer - 'freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose'

A good post, and the thought-provoking stuff I like to see around here.

Speaking for myself personally, I don't feel like a slave.

If you do.....

Well, it sucks to be you.

I'm a slave to my stomach, it bugs me to eat food every day to stay alive.

I'm a  Slave to Rock and Roll

I'm a slave to my wife; and she is a cruel and ruthless master     

I was speaking more of what seems to be in store for generations far into the future, like stepping into a tar pit now and through the course of future generations sinking more and more into it until we no longer have the option of escape.  It's not about me or some sort of need to live off the land.

I think that in a system where largely only greed succeeds, the natural course of evolution in that system will result with even more greedily minded people, furthering the need for greed in the first place.  That and all the drugs and supplements we will start relying on, wouldn't that sort of breed new dependencies on them?  Sure, many people eat healthily and exercise, but how long will this behavior persist when it will be more profitable to sell a wonder drug than advise people to be healthy?

I realize that trying to look too far into the future is rather futile, but I seem to think about it a lot.