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Originally posted by Astralglide
Speaking of WoW, what better example of a MMO who's world was created and polished before anything else was? I find it a little funny that you are using one of the best examples of what the OP is talking about as an insult. Another great example of the OP's vision is LOTRO, btw. So please, go back to UO
No no WOW is not a world. It looks like a world but it's all painted papier mache, it's Disneyland. |
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11/02/09 4:16:28 PM#42
Originally posted by Cephus404 Sure, until you pop onto the chat channel to tell everyone about your "epic" accomplishment and everyone else has already done it and maybe did it better than you did. Sure, that's epic. I take it you didn't read what i typed. Only for 1 person or one group means this event would NEVER occur on that server again, thus being unique content that can potentially shape the world differently. |
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Astralglide
 Advanced Member
Joined: 9/03/07
"Nothing says combat instancing like cleavage, nipples, and leather" |
11/02/09 4:25:13 PM#43
Originally posted by altairzq
Speaking of WoW, what better example of a MMO who's world was created and polished before anything else was? I find it a little funny that you are using one of the best examples of what the OP is talking about as an insult. Another great example of the OP's vision is LOTRO, btw. So please, go back to UO
No no WOW is not a world. It looks like a world but it's all painted papier mache, it's Disneyland. Then what game's are you talking about? What "real worlds" do you want created? If you want reality and depth, get a book. Disneyland Schmisneyland, these games are SUPPOSED to be fun and have a degree of surrealism. Calling a virtual world paper-mache is a good example, but that's all a video game really is. A witty saying proves nothing. |
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11/02/09 4:51:52 PM#44
Originally posted by Yohanu I take it you didn't read what i typed. Only for 1 person or one group means this event would NEVER occur on that server again, thus being unique content that can potentially shape the world differently.
Let's imagine: the developer has time to create 1000 pieces of content (quests, events, etc). What game is more fun?
The type of game you're asking for sounds great when you imagine yourself as that 1 important person being part of the important events. But that conveniently ignores the fact that you're basically saying "the majority of players get nothing" by proposing this sort of game. |
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11/02/09 4:54:26 PM#45
Originally posted by Axehilt I take it you didn't read what i typed. Only for 1 person or one group means this event would NEVER occur on that server again, thus being unique content that can potentially shape the world differently.
Let's imagine: the developer has time to create 1000 pieces of content (quests, events, etc). What game is more fun?
The type of game you're asking for sounds great when you imagine yourself as that 1 important person being part of the important events. But that conveniently ignores the fact that you're basically saying "the majority of players get nothing" by proposing this sort of game. Who said this would be the only content? I'm just saying the communism of mmo's should stop to make room for more interesting gameplay twists. Having a small chance of getting rich, get unique content, etc from randomness is part of the fun |
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11/02/09 5:34:03 PM#46
I think the idea of a quest being specific and original for one person and never being seen again is totally possible. SWG -almost- had it with their dynamic quest system... NPC camps would spawn all over SWG's worlds and the NPCs would have quests for you. They were very basic quests really, but they could be made more epic if the developers gave them more attention. I think the best thing would be if there were clans in the world, like a civilization simulator. The clans are NPC based, and conquer territory from each other, make treaties with each other, war with each other, and sometimes the clans break into civil war and are split. Clans grow and shrink depending on what is going on in the clans around them (and maybe some level of random behavior to spice things up). Then players can interact with the clans, join the clans, become leaders of the NPC clans and help make decisions like who to be at war and peace with. Quests are spawned by NPCs in your clan and those quests are dynamic, so are never exactly the same, and varying levels of epicness... Often simple, sometimes epic to the point where your actions could turn the tide of a war with another clan, your actions could mean the end of another clan, it could mean gaining more territory, it could mean starting or stopping a civil war, ect. That would be basically, a dynamic world complete with dynamic/unique quests. Play as your favorite retro characters: www.cnd-online.net and read my blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com/ |
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11/02/09 5:41:05 PM#47
Originally posted by Yohanu
At which point nobody is going to play the damn game. Why do you think developers are going to make single-use content that can never be used again? That makes no sense. But then again, these are the kinds of ideas that we see from people who don't understand how the business world works, they want to live in a fantasy land where developers work for free, game companies don't have to make a profit and competition for a sizable chunk of the potential player base isn't required. Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, lots more |
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About the unique content, I don't think this can be done at all, devs just can't create that amount of events to get all the players entertained, and having he world in so different states for every gamer would be a mess IMO. But, with a little of imagination there can be a pretty good solution for this. For instance, lets imagine an evil dragon. Players start making quests that leads to the fight against the dragon. Eventually, the first group of adventurers kill the dragon. At that point, there is no dragon, and all the quest givers tell that to the players that were following the chain. No evil dragon for lets say one month. I know players get pissed off, it's ok, this is how a world behaves, it's not tailored to the player, it's a world. Then after a period between 30 to 60 days, randomly chosen, a successor to the old dragon appears and quests are active again. I know what many of you are thinking: this sucks I will never get to kill the dragon. Exactly. You will never get to kill the dragon. It's a damn dragon, only a few can kill a dragon. That's how it was in fantasy worlds, chances are you will never see a dragon, let alone kill it.. Are you kidding me? it's an epic MOFO Dragon FFS. I know what you thinking now too: this sucks I want to play the game and I want to be able to kill everything. Well, are you sure? Are you sure you want to kill everything every day until you just don't give a damn if you are killing an incredibly powerfull dragon or a semi-God or whatever? Or do you want to be exploring and hear a rumble and feel your heart beating so fast and get a glimpse of a legendary creature pass by... maybe a thing that will happen to you three or four times in a year. Maybe a little more if you are very dedicated to finding such creatures. |
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11/02/09 11:42:36 PM#49
Originally posted by Cephus404
At which point nobody is going to play the damn game. Why do you think developers are going to make single-use content that can never be used again? That makes no sense. But then again, these are the kinds of ideas that we see from people who don't understand how the business world works, they want to live in a fantasy land where developers work for free, game companies don't have to make a profit and competition for a sizable chunk of the potential player base isn't required. It makes total sense from an immersive rpg perspective (hence why mortal online will have this) The business isn't supposed to be the gamer's problem, the gamer's duty is to pay a reasonable price for the damn product. |
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11/03/09 12:10:45 AM#50
Originally posted by altairzq The main issue with this setup that if you want to make those events that rare, you cannot treat them as 'content' but rather as 'bonuses'. You can't make them vital to player progression or make them pivotal to how the players play everyday. Otherwise you start locking out parts of the game and get a frustrated playerbase. |
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11/03/09 2:01:45 AM#51
Originally posted by Torik The main issue with this setup that if you want to make those events that rare, you cannot treat them as 'content' but rather as 'bonuses'. You can't make them vital to player progression or make them pivotal to how the players play everyday. Otherwise you start locking out parts of the game and get a frustrated playerbase. Precisely my point. It's unique content and only meant for certain people. It sure gives you a nice bonus both in a sandbox or a themepark game (even though i'd prefer it in a sandbox environment that had full loot, no not neccessarily ffa pvp but full loot on death so that if you have enough luck some guy who did one of these quests die near you for whatever reason and you can take his beloved unique item whom he got from the quest) |
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11/03/09 2:11:52 AM#52
Originally posted by Torik What do you think about WOW's rare spawns? Those basically fit this category. As do WOW's somewhat rare world events (little snippets of story told by NPCs doing stuff.) Tertiary to normal gameplay, but you can miss some of them if you're not around playing the game 24/7. |
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11/03/09 10:09:07 AM#53
Originally posted by Yohanu Precisely my point. It's unique content and only meant for certain people. It sure gives you a nice bonus both in a sandbox or a themepark game (even though i'd prefer it in a sandbox environment that had full loot, no not neccessarily ffa pvp but full loot on death so that if you have enough luck some guy who did one of these quests die near you for whatever reason and you can take his beloved unique item whom he got from the quest) That's pretty much point, if it is 'only meant for certain people' then it is 'non-content' for the rest of the game population. If the fact that you are not one of those 'certain people' is going to have a serious (ie not envy/epeen based) negative effect on you then the game becomes frustrating. It will only get worse if the membership in the 'certain people' group is decided based on arbitrary or biased criteria. |
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11/03/09 10:17:40 AM#54
Originally posted by Axehilt What do you think about WOW's rare spawns? Those basically fit this category. As do WOW's somewhat rare world events (little snippets of story told by NPCs doing stuff.) Tertiary to normal gameplay, but you can miss some of them if you're not around playing the game 24/7.
WoW's rare spawns fall into the 'bonus' category. They are there and give nicer rewards for killing but they are not that big a challenge and the rewards do not change the balance of the game in any way. For those who go after them they are a nice bonus but are irrelevant to the overall game population. As you said yourself WoW's world events are moslty tertiary. If you miss them, you cna keep playing the game as usual. They are once again just a bonus feature and do not define how people play and enjoy the game.
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11/03/09 10:25:07 AM#55
Originally posted by Yohanu And the damn product needs to appeal to a sizable audience so they all keep paying their monthly fees and the company can stay in business. Whether you like it or not, the business *IS* the gamer's problem and understanding why the business has to do certain things to stay in business is just common sense. If Mortal Online tries to do this, it'll probably fail miserably. Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, lots more |
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11/03/09 10:30:44 AM#56
Originally posted by Torik Precisely my point. It's unique content and only meant for certain people. It sure gives you a nice bonus both in a sandbox or a themepark game (even though i'd prefer it in a sandbox environment that had full loot, no not neccessarily ffa pvp but full loot on death so that if you have enough luck some guy who did one of these quests die near you for whatever reason and you can take his beloved unique item whom he got from the quest) That's pretty much point, if it is 'only meant for certain people' then it is 'non-content' for the rest of the game population. If the fact that you are not one of those 'certain people' is going to have a serious (ie not envy/epeen based) negative effect on you then the game becomes frustrating. It will only get worse if the membership in the 'certain people' group is decided based on arbitrary or biased criteria. Not considering the niche group Mortal Online targets. Some people like chance, just look at how popular lotteries are. The only difference here is that you don't have to pay to get a chance (unless you count the monthly fee which would be ridiculous as people play for plenty of other reasons). As said before, i don't want a communist world online where everyone has the exacy same opportunities, it would make the game ridiculously bland and boring (see: all current-gen AAA-mmorpg's) |
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11/03/09 10:31:51 AM#57
Originally posted by Cephus404 And the damn product needs to appeal to a sizable audience so they all keep paying their monthly fees and the company can stay in business. Whether you like it or not, the business *IS* the gamer's problem and understanding why the business has to do certain things to stay in business is just common sense. If Mortal Online tries to do this, it'll probably fail miserably. Pretty sure there's a fairly big crowd longing for mortal online. |
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11/03/09 10:36:57 AM#58
Originally posted by Yohanu
I will give you an actual example. Several times Asheron's Call has offered one time only rewards or titles as bonuses. These items or titles were always cosmetic only, to be clear they didn't offer any bonuses of any kind. Yet instead of players saying it was cool that people got unique items a war broke out on the forums over the half saying it's not cool because now they can never get the stupid orb that is simply a house decoration and the group that thinks unique content is fun.
Even live events have that effect, if they're unannounced then players complain that they didn't have a chance to be there because they didn't know ahead of time. As opposed to thinking it was cool that spontaneous events could happen in the world at any time.
Needless to say there hasn't been a unique item or title in a long time in AC, and unannounced live events are less common and less grand.
Too many players want everything and cry if others get access to content that they don't. It's the sad nature of gamers now a days and the "I deserve everything because I'm me" attitude in America now. This prevents companies from doing this type of game because it makes those players (who sadly are the majority) quit the game.
Blame players, not companies reacting to players. |
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maskedweasel
 Tipster
Joined: 9/24/07
"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane." |
11/03/09 10:44:58 AM#59
Originally posted by Teala
Oh Teala, its okay if you don't like FE of DF. FE is the closest thing to exciting combat I can find. Shooting a crossbow from a horse in FE feels similar to MnB :D. Honestly I don't see how WoW offers MnB combat any more or less then FE, but to each their own. I hope you find what you're looking for. "Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"
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11/03/09 11:17:40 AM#60
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf The problem is the arbitrary nature of these types of events. Why was one group of people included and another exluded? If it is based on player skill or accomplishing tasks then many people will be fine with it. However, often enough these divisions are made based on things out of player's control. They are arbitrary and thus considered unfair. We all pay the same subscription fee and thus expect the company to treat us equally and not give preferential treatment to some customers based on arbitrary criteria. People hate that in RL and hate in the game as well.
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