Because it spends so much money on un-needed stuff!   That is why?   The US should be rolling in money.   Instead so much is wasted.    It cost almost 10 cents to make a nickel....that is right, it cost twice as much to make a nickel than it is worth.     The US mint cost the US taxpayers 7+ billion a year to operate.    We could save that 7 billion by going to digital currency.   

Want to save more.   Bring our military home.   The wars the US are fighting is costing us 900billion!  That is almost a trillion dollars!   A trillion dollars!   Think about that...I mean really think about it.   

Take the billions that is being spent on the war on drugs...which has done nothing accept put mostly users behind bars costing us even more money!   Think about this, according to the US department of Justice it has cost the US taxpayers...get this...3.8 trillion dollars since its inception.   That is not billions, that is trillions!   This year alone is expected to top 200 billion!  OMG!  Is the US government just really that fucking stupid!   Why are we allowing this to happen? 

By the way the US prison system cost the US taxpayers 40+ billion a year.    States pay even more!   461 people per 100,000 in the US is incarcerated.   Most of those are not hardened criminals...half are drug offenders - users.      Some guy/girl gets thrown in jail just for having some weed on them.   Is that just fucking insane!  

The US government spends countless billions on bloated military contracts and civilian contracts - it's insane.

Look at how bloated our government itself has become and the waste of taxpayers money to run the whole show.    It is crazy!  

We need to just totally clean house.   I mean wipe the slate clean and start over.   Shut the government down for 10 years, let states run their own shows for those 10 years while the government does a complete audit of all the offices and departments and systems in our government and stream lines them.   Get rid of wasteful things and redundant programs.

We wonder why the US is so screwed up?   Because we are letting the people in charge to continue to spend money like it grows as wheat.   Sorry money does not magically grow so we can harvest it.   We need a complete overhaul.   The longer we wait the worst it will get.

Sound foreign policy is just one pillar of libertarian thought :)

Couldn't agree with you more Teala.

I won't disagree that a lot of spending is stupid.  $400 per gallon of gas in Iraq etc.  But that doesn't logically mean that you should be against all future government spending.  It just means that you should be for smart spending.  Don't take the conservative thought of "instead of fixing it, let's just scrap it."

People think that being liberal means that you are for spending and big government, which isn't true.  I am for cleaning up wasteful spending like the above, and technically shrinking the government.  I don't want the government involved in what we put in our  bodies, who we marry, etc.  I do however support government health care and environmental regulations.

I laugh at some republicans who say liberals are for big government.

I support a smaller military, killing the war on drugs, and not passing laws telling people who they can marry. 

They support a massive military to feel "safe", having the government be the moral police, and passing government regulations telling people who they can marry.

Who's for smaller government again?

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I won't disagree that a lot of spending is stupid.  $400 per gallon of gas in Iraq etc.  But that doesn't logically mean that you should be against all future government spending.  It just means that you should be for smart spending.  Don't take the conservative thought of "instead of fixing it, let's just scrap it."

People think that being liberal means that you are for spending and big government, which isn't true.  I am for cleaning up wasteful spending like the above, and technically shrinking the government.  I don't want the government involved in what we put in our  bodies, who we marry, etc.  I do however support government health care and environmental regulations.

 

I laugh at some republicans who say liberals are for big government.

I support a smaller military, killing the war on drugs, and not passing laws telling people who they can marry. 

They support a massive military to feel "safe", having the government be the moral police, and passing government regulations telling people who they can marry.

 

Who's for smaller government again?

I can't agree with your thoughts on some republicans more.  They are called RINO's (like rhino) Republicans In Name Only.

I agree with all of your thoughts except two.

1) Government Healthcare - we've been over this so many times I won't bother =p

2) Environmental Regulations - I don't think these would be necessary if property rights were fully enforced.  If you polluted my property through any means (my body would be my property so if you polluted my water or air you'd be harming my property) I'd be able to sue you to recover damages.  This alone I think would stop excessive pollution in its track.  I know there's not a lot of support for this type of radical change outside of Libertarian circles so I don't expect much support =p

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I won't disagree that a lot of spending is stupid.  $400 per gallon of gas in Iraq etc.  But that doesn't logically mean that you should be against all future government spending.  It just means that you should be for smart spending.  Don't take the conservative thought of "instead of fixing it, let's just scrap it."

People think that being liberal means that you are for spending and big government, which isn't true.  I am for cleaning up wasteful spending like the above, and technically shrinking the government.  I don't want the government involved in what we put in our  bodies, who we marry, etc.  I do however support government health care and environmental regulations.

 

I laugh at some republicans who say liberals are for big government.

I support a smaller military, killing the war on drugs, and not passing laws telling people who they can marry. 

They support a massive military to feel "safe", having the government be the moral police, and passing government regulations telling people who they can marry.

 

Who's for smaller government again?

So many different types of liberal that really pretty much everyone is a liberal of some sort though.

There are what,  like 30 different types of liberalism.  The opposite of being liberal is not conservative but being another type of liberal

Calling yourself a conservative doesn't mean your not a liberal eighther,  just means you don't know what type of lib you are.

Unless of course you are a swatsitca wearing hate consumed individual,  then you are just full of shit

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I won't disagree that a lot of spending is stupid.  $400 per gallon of gas in Iraq etc.  But that doesn't logically mean that you should be against all future government spending.  It just means that you should be for smart spending.  Don't take the conservative thought of "instead of fixing it, let's just scrap it."

People think that being liberal means that you are for spending and big government, which isn't true.  I am for cleaning up wasteful spending like the above, and technically shrinking the government.  I don't want the government involved in what we put in our  bodies, who we marry, etc.  I do however support government health care and environmental regulations.

 

I laugh at some republicans who say liberals are for big government.

I support a smaller military, killing the war on drugs, and not passing laws telling people who they can marry. 

They support a massive military to feel "safe", having the government be the moral police, and passing government regulations telling people who they can marry.

 

Who's for smaller government again?

See Sabian we think more alike than you might suspect. :) I am actually all for socialized medicine. and the government to make sure the environment is not screwed up by people.    But, it has to be done right and with out all this bloat.    Right now there is as much poverty in the US as there is in say Sudan.    Why?  Because our government squanders trillions of dollars.    Think of all the good that could be done not just here, but around the world if the US spent its money wisely.    Such a shame.   I wish I had the means to fix it myself.    But my voice is worth no more than the next persons and who am I to say how things should be done.   ::sigh::   I know what I feel is right and that is all I have.   I know what the US government does 90% of the time is just a total waste.   Seriously.   So much waste.   In my mind it is criminal.

 

Buy silver now...

Originally posted by frodus

Buy silver now...

Expecting werewolves are we  :P

silver hasn't exploded in price over the past 5 years which I think is what frodus is referring to?  Just a matter of time

(bathes in his tub of silver coins) muwhahaha make me rich!

Originally posted by smokemonsc

silver hasn't exploded in price over the past 5 years which I think is what frodus is referring to?  Just a matter of time

(bathes in his tub of silver coins) muwhahaha make me rich!

hehe,  yea

couldn't help myself though

safe bet,  won't lose value if nothing happens,  stand to gain alot if somthing does

Originally posted by Teala

Because it spends so much money on un-needed stuff!   That is why?   The US should be rolling in money.   Instead so much is wasted.    It cost almost 10 cents to make a nickel....that is right, it cost twice as much to make a nickel than it is worth.     The US mint cost the US taxpayers 7+ billion a year to operate.    We could save that 7 billion by going to digital currency.   

Want to save more.   Bring our military home.   The wars the US are fighting is costing us 900billion!  That is almost a trillion dollars!   A trillion dollars!   Think about that...I mean really think about it.   

Take the billions that is being spent on the war on drugs...which has done nothing accept put mostly users behind bars costing us even more money!   Think about this, according to the US department of Justice it has cost the US taxpayers...get this...3.8 trillion dollars since its inception.   That is not billions, that is trillions!   This year alone is expected to top 200 billion!  OMG!  Is the US government just really that fucking stupid!   Why are we allowing this to happen? 

By the way the US prison system cost the US taxpayers 40+ billion a year.    States pay even more!   461 people per 100,000 in the US is incarcerated.   Most of those are not hardened criminals...half are drug offenders - users.      Some guy/girl gets thrown in jail just for having some weed on them.   Is that just fucking insane!  

The US government spends countless billions on bloated military contracts and civilian contracts - it's insane.

Look at how bloated our government itself has become and the waste of taxpayers money to run the whole show.    It is crazy!  

We need to just totally clean house.   I mean wipe the slate clean and start over.   Shut the government down for 10 years, let states run their own shows for those 10 years while the government does a complete audit of all the offices and departments and systems in our government and stream lines them.   Get rid of wasteful things and redundant programs.

We wonder why the US is so screwed up?   Because we are letting the people in charge to continue to spend money like it grows as wheat.   Sorry money does not magically grow so we can harvest it.   We need a complete overhaul.   The longer we wait the worst it will get.

Gee it just takes common sense..Teala for President.. I agree, the USA  Political system needs a Major over haul..Get rid of the Dem,Rep,Liberals and the likes and put in people with real common sense with logic and reasons..Only then you will see a change..

Teala lists a lot of the right problems, many of which we can all agree on.  But what exactly is the right solution?  Do you really want to release criminals that have broken the law onto the streets?  You wouldn't support that if you've experienced your neighborhood ruined by drug dealers, overrun by gangs, child molesters living next door to you while you're trying to raise a family, etc etc..

I'm also for stopping wars and pulling troops back home.  But any intelligent person knows that can have negative consequences.  A region we buy oil from could get overrun by bad guys or get invaded, and don't say it won't happen, already did with Kuwait.  A fragile region such as North Korea and South Korea at the DMZ will no longer be peaceful if we don't have a military presence there.  Why do we care?  Oh I don't know, maybe because it would cost more money and lives to actually go back in and clean up the mess after something happens maybe?

Government is for sure corrupt and government-run programs are often too bloated and full of wasteful spending.  We've all learned in schools about government run programs.  If you are funded by the government, you make sure you spend every dime to make sure your budget doesn't get cut next year.  That creates wasteful spending and corruption, and it's all over the place, in all government run programs.  I just find it ironic for Teala to come out and say let's start over, but let's have socialized government run healthcare and let's have entitlement programs to help the poor.  I'm sorry missy but government run healthcare that is medicare & medicaid are also some of the worst run programs gaining debt each and every day.

Government is both good & evil, we want them to stay out of our ways, but yet we know they must be there.  I propose we start by voting corrupt partisan politicians out first, and get some people into the whitehouse who aren't professional career partisan politicians.  But who am I kidding, where the heck are we gonna find people like that?  Power corrupts and these politicians have way too much power over us.

Personally I would like to hear some reasonable, legit solutions.  Not just these, well stop with all these and that and see if it works kind of solutions.  Like some said, these none or all solutions aren't good, they're too partisan, too biased, and sometimes we don't need left or right, black or white.  We often need legit solutions that are in the gray and in the middle.

Originally posted by Sabiancym 

I laugh at ... who say liberals are for big government.

Those who wish to increase government programs wish to see big government. If you did not want big government, you would not want increased government programs. The more government programs, the larger the government.

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Sabiancym 

I laugh at ... who say liberals are for big government.

Those who wish to increase government programs wish to see big government. If you did not want big government, you would not want increased government programs. The more government programs, the larger the government.

We want to add government programs, yes.

But we also want to remove others.

Originally posted by Mardy

Teala lists a lot of the right problems, many of which we can all agree on.  But what exactly is the right solution?  Do you really want to release criminals that have broken the law onto the streets?  You wouldn't support that if you've experienced your neighborhood ruined by drug dealers, overrun by gangs, child molesters living next door to you while you're trying to raise a family, etc etc..

So a person that smokes a little weed now and then is a hardened criminal?   Because that is what half our prisons are holding...drug users.    Sorry, I do not feel that someone smoking a little weed now and then is a criminal.   It is stupid that people cannot smoke weed, but people can drink all the alcohol they want and then drive and kill and beat up people and etc, etc...

 I'm also for stopping wars and pulling troops back home.  But any intelligent person knows that can have negative consequences.  A region we buy oil from could get overrun by bad guys or get invaded, and don't say it won't happen, already did with Kuwait.  A fragile region such as North Korea and South Korea at the DMZ will no longer be peaceful if we don't have a military presence there.  Why do we care?  Oh I don't know, maybe because it would cost more money and lives to actually go back in and clean up the mess after something happens maybe?

So instead America has to foot the bill and police the world.   Sorry, it is time the world starts looking after it's own.  The US has no need to be nation building...all we do is screw things up.    We wouldn't be in this mess if our stupid government didn't create it to begin with.    I can name a dozen countries that the US meddled with and look where it got us...one dictator after another...no thanks...sorry - the US attempts at nation building has never worked anywhere.  It is time we stop doing it - it is costing this country lives and trillions of wasted dollars.   Oh and if you do not think that US nation building is a bad thing...you are seriously in need of a quick history lesson.   If you need one I can provide it.

Government is for sure corrupt and government-run programs are often too bloated and full of wasteful spending.  We've all learned in schools about government run programs.  If you are funded by the government, you make sure you spend every dime to make sure your budget doesn't get cut next year.  That creates wasteful spending and corruption, and it's all over the place, in all government run programs.  I just find it ironic for Teala to come out and say let's start over, but let's have socialized government run health care and let's have entitlement programs to help the poor.  I'm sorry missy but government run health care that is medicare & medicaid are also some of the worst run programs gaining debt each and every day.

Instead let's keep things as they are and allow dishonest, money grubbing, dirtbag insurance companies continue to get past the law and use legal angles to control the welfare of the people - no sorry.    I completely disagree here.   What needs to be done is the total scrapping of medicaid and medicare and have one policy fit all.    No special privileges(unless you insist of footing the bill - like for plastic surgery for breat implants(cosmetic reasons - say a women wants D size cups  and she has B - that is somnething the person themselves should pay for)) but for healthcare in general and dental - that should can be provided by the state if done right.   It works in other countries like France, Norway and such.   It can work here.

Government is both good & evil, we want them to stay out of our ways, but yet we know they must be there.  I propose we start by voting corrupt partisan politicians out first, and get some people into the whitehouse who aren't professional career partisan politicians.  But who am I kidding, where the heck are we gonna find people like that?  Power corrupts and these politicians have way too much power over us.

I agree here.  Voting doesn't work as it should.   It is broken.   So we impose term limits like they were going to do before.  But no, people fell for the contract for America BS brought on by who?  The very people that knew that they would loose their jobs.    Also, we need to stop allowing lobbyist and special interest groups from buying out politicians.    The system is corrupt and has failed the American people and the world.   It is timed it is changed.

Personally I would like to hear some reasonable, legit solutions.  Not just these, well stop with all these and that and see if it works kind of solutions.  Like some said, these none or all solutions aren't good, they're too partisan, too biased, and sometimes we don't need left or right, black or white.  We often need legit solutions that are in the gray and in the middle.

Sometimes grey and in the middle is the way to go, but this is not the time to sit on the fence.   Clear and decisive actions are what need to be taken.   If it calls for brainstorming solutions then it should be up to the people to decide on the whole and be voted on and need a 2/3rds majority vote and if one cannot be found then it starts all over again until one is found.   It is time the people got back their government from the now corrupt and inept government.  

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Sabiancym 

I laugh at ... who say liberals are for big government.

Those who wish to increase government programs wish to see big government. If you did not want big government, you would not want increased government programs. The more government programs, the larger the government.

 

We want to add government programs, yes.

 

But we also want to remove others.

Agreed. I'm for pragmatic, smart government. A federal government that does only what must be done, but can't be done outside of it.

I'd be as against a liberal wanting to say...start a government run pizza delivery department as I would be a conservative that wants to end federal subsidies for the housing of foster care children.

Democrats at LEAST say how they're going to spend. Even if I disagreed 90% with how a Democrat talked about spending, I'd still have to vote with the Democrat because he's at least not saying ridiculous shit akin to McCain's "spending freeze" in the middle of a recession.

I require more thought put forward towards federal government than "its bad", "government can do nothing right". Ok well, I'll forever vote against those politicians, as it makes NO SENSE to hire someone that tells you to your face the role they're seeking to occupy and pay them for can NEVER work and should infact do nothing.

I hope for a day where political debate in this country can be entirely about which party will spend and tax the smartest; the only sound course to no debts and balanced budgets along with a functioning government.

You can't just bring back troops and reduce the size of the military.

First:  you have a massive number of people out of their jobs

Second: you have a large amount of govt. spending out of the picture (even if they spend the same amount on something else).  You can't just say less spending means less taxes since if you drop those taxes the budget is still screwed.

___________

The fact of the matter is no one wants to take the responsibility of those two facts even if their effects aren't nearly as large as you'd think.   We're talking votes, lobbies, donations, and social fallout.   So it's not just "real" responsibility that the govt. would be worried about it is the "blame" kind as well.

The military is also a form of education as well.   In nearly all cases you're not going in to be a grunt you're getting training for a real job outside of the military.   When military training works it's a way for the "almost" middle class to get trained in a job that's middle to middle upper middle class.    Considering 3/4ths of jobs in a few years will require atleast a year or two of training beyond highschool(basically anything that's not retail) even factory jobs require a hefty douse of training,  also considering companies just don't train employees it's a nice arguement to keep the military. 

When they say "military industrial complex",  they're emphasising all words of the phrase.   The term it self is also worthy of research because it's an interesting term in history/meaning/use.

_______________________

It's not just the military either, or any one other thing it's a lot of things that need to be changed but are too scary to.

Though the biggest thing you should worry about is that even after this recession there will be a repeat within 7 years.  Because the education system is not scaling to the workforce requirements and never will at the rate that it's going.   

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Sabiancym 

I laugh at ... who say liberals are for big government.

Those who wish to increase government programs wish to see big government. If you did not want big government, you would not want increased government programs. The more government programs, the larger the government.

 

We want to add government programs, yes.

 

But we also want to remove others.

Yes, you want to add larger programs that will cost trillions for a single program.

Cutting a buck and then spending 10 more doesn't mean you saved a dollar.

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Sabiancym

Originally posted by Dekron

Originally posted by Sabiancym 

I laugh at ... who say liberals are for big government.

Those who wish to increase government programs wish to see big government. If you did not want big government, you would not want increased government programs. The more government programs, the larger the government.

 

We want to add government programs, yes.

 

But we also want to remove others.

Yes, you want to add larger programs that will cost trillions for a single program.

Cutting a buck and then spending 10 more doesn't mean you saved a dollar.

Lay that math out for me and get back.  Otherwise you're just generalizing.

Originally posted by Sabiancym

I won't disagree that a lot of spending is stupid.  $400 per gallon of gas in Iraq etc.  But that doesn't logically mean that you should be against all future government spending.  It just means that you should be for smart spending.  Don't take the conservative thought of "instead of fixing it, let's just scrap it."

People think that being liberal means that you are for spending and big government, which isn't true.  I am for cleaning up wasteful spending like the above, and technically shrinking the government.  I don't want the government involved in what we put in our  bodies, who we marry, etc.  I do however support government health care and environmental regulations.

 

I laugh at some republicans who say liberals are for big government.

I support a smaller military, killing the war on drugs, and not passing laws telling people who they can marry. 

They support a massive military to feel "safe", having the government be the moral police, and passing government regulations telling people who they can marry.

 

Who's for smaller government again?

First of all, I don't get where you get that conservatives want to "just scrap it".  It's the conservatives crying foul telling the government to FIX the current system, to fix medicare/medicaid, to fix things that limit competition such as rules that disallow us to buy insurance across state lines.  It's actually the democrats that want to scrap the current system and go with something new, which is government run option.  That is something new, that's not fixing the current medicare/medicaid going bankrupt, that's not addressing the rising cost of healthcare in general all around.   The reason Mayo Clinic does not support what's being proposed is because it does not address the issues facing medicare today.  Doctors are not being reimbursed for caring for medicare patients.  So instead of fixing that, they want to cut medicare and force doctors to pretty much not take medicare patients anymore.

Instead of just giving people who truly can't afford healthcare or are denied of coverage some sort of healthcare, they want to cover more people than they should, they want to tax people and penalize people & businesses, they want to put all sorts of rules and laws about do's and don'ts.   And you are here telling me that's a way to "fix" the current system?  They aren't fixing it, they are playing politics with it, they are just paying back their lobbyist and special interest groups in whatever they are putting into this nearly 1900 page bill.  I'm 100% for giving people who can not afford health insurance coverage.  I'm 100% for giving people who have pre-existing conditions and denied coverage to get government health insurance.  What is being proposed is not addressing these issues, what is being proposed is not addressing rising healthcare cost.

Talk about "instead of fixing it, let's scrap it" approach, tell that to your Nancy Pelosi for saying a bill without public option will not go through.  Both sides are playing politics with people's lives, I'm sick and tired of hearing conservative this, liberal that, left this, right that.  Fact is Democrats are having trouble passing this bill because they're too busy arguing with themselves, they are unable to agree within their own party because they know the public does not support what they are proposing.  I see the same people blame the other side, or blame people that disagree with them.  But the fact is this is allll on the shoulders of Democrats and whatever happens, it's due to whatever deals they can break through within their own party.  Stop blaming anybody but your own Democrat-controlled congress.  Stop blaming anybody but your own Democrat controlled Whitehouse.

With regards to gay marriage, your own president do not support gay marriage.  But everybody says this should be left up to individual States, and allow people living in these states to vote for whether they want to allow gay marriage or not.  This was never supposed to be up to the federal government, it was up to each individual states and the people living in those states.  I find it funny you have to bring this up as if a law is going to increase the size of the government.  I agree this is something that should be up to each individual states and allow people to vote on it.  The federal government should take no part in this.