The Situation:

MMORPG's lack downtime. The benefit of this, is that you get more done in less time. You also do not have to wait around and watch a bar rise slowly up to 100%, which when your solo can be boring. The cons to no downtime is that there is less social interaction when grouped, and the game feels more gamey and less worldy (I made those terms up, haha).

The Proposal:

Bring back downtime. The way to do this is allow the ability to set up camps. DAoC did this eventually with campfires, where you got a small buff to recovery. WoW has this, which does the same thing. SWG literally allowed you to set up a camp, which is the best example of camps. The benefit of camps is that it allows for socializing, which would greatly increase the comradre amongst the community, building a tight community that once used to exist in MMORPG's, and STILL can exist now. When you're sitting around a campfire, with not much better to do, you end up talking with others and making friends. Another benefit of downtime is that it allows for perfect times for bio breaks or to take a bite of that sandwich (  ). Even if you aren't grouped, a person passing by another who has a camp setup may stop by and say hello. Then again, maybe they won't. But it's more likely they will compared to when you're running past each other 5 miles an hour to get to the next quest objective. It forces players to STOP, and enjoy the PRESENT. Gamers are so focused on the future while in the game, that they never take the time to get to know the number 1 asset any game has to offer: A Community.

You Decide:

Bring back downtime, or lose it forever?

I just started playing EQ again after years of WoW, and I was sitting there in my group medding up and something strange happened. We had a conversation. Wierd, I know.

Originally posted by Palebane

I just started playing EQ again after years of WoW, and I was sitting there in my group medding up and something strange happened. We had a conversation. Wierd, I know.

Yeah, it's an incredible and underrated game mechanic that does more good than harm by keeping it in the game. Imagine how simply getting to know each other enhances a game, extends its life, and provides a more mature community.

Need the downtime as I have housework to do!

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Remember Rabbids cant do house chores, but they can Dance)

 Indeed. 

It's kinda sad, though, that the OP touches on two things - down-time and community (the latter seeming to result from the former) - are two things that many players these days seem to want *less* of. They don't want comraderie in a game... they just want people there to help them get their "phat lewt" on that end-game raid run they're doing for the 30th time, so they can move on to the next.

They don't care who you are, what your interests are, what you think about a given topic... They only care if you're the right class and have the optimal character build to help make sure they get their newest 'purple', so they can move on to getting the next one. Beyond that, they couldn't care less who's on the controlling side of that character. Many new MMOs have become *very* anti-social and the gameplay becoming more solo-friendly, with less down-time and a faster pace has only helped that happen.

Far and away, of all the MMOs I've played, the more down-time there was or, otherwise, the slower the pace of the game overall, the better communities they had. Every time. Without exception. If the game required grouping from early on (e.g. FFXI), or a lot of player interaction even outside of grouping (e.g. Lineage 2), then the community developed very early on and only grew larger and stronger as time went on. 

It's something I miss a lot about MMOs and that I really hope some developers/designers out there still see the value in nurturing. I think Square-Enix will maintain that in FFXIV. They see how strong the community in FFXI is - it's one of the more common reasons people come back, aside from the game itself being unique in the genre these days - and, I'm confident, they'll work to nurture it in XIV as well (fingers crossed). 

Aside from the social aspects, downtime facilitates other things...

- cigarette/food/bathroom breaks
- time re-supply for reagents, arrows, etc.
- stretch the legs, etc.
- rest your eyes for a few having stared at the monitor non-stop for an hour or more straight

and so on...

One important thing that, I think, serves as the foundation of all of that, though, is the idea that MMORPGs were conceived as long-term "online hobbies" that could persist, moreso than just short-term "games" that would be "finished" and then left behind to move on to the next. They've leaned more toward the "game" side in recent years and I think that's why we haven't seen as much community... you can't build community when players are ripping through the content and moving on to the next game so quickly.

Yeah I remember the good old days of FFXI that game had downtime 4sho. Heck parties I was in we would have conversations in mid battle and we'd still kick ass.  We were all typing too, thats why I really didn't like most other games at first cuz it was so hard to fight and type.

But here is a way to bring back that social feeling back in games.   Use Ventrillo or Teamspeak, I know there is people out there saying only 1337 WoW kiddies use vent but when playing Fallen Earth you have to stop fighting just to type. My cousin and I have been using it and man does it bring back memories  of FFXI. It makes grouping fun again and a hell of a lot easier to tell people you need help cuz you got aggro.

Using Vent you get the best of both worlds, talking for all you chataholics out there and constant action for all the ADHD kiddies out there.

It's an interesting question.  Downtime does seem to play some part in group socialization, I wonder if the lack of downtime is at all associated with easily getting "burned out" from playing.

Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off. Rest, repeat. Grinding and downtime. They are the lessons that teach very valuable lessons. Risk versus reward. All of these things promote a wholeness of game understanding, forcing the gamer to become a better gamer, and in many cases, a better person in-game as well. Community is undeniably something that forms around downtime. Knowledge of game is undeniably something that forms around grinding. Put them together and what do you get? Captain Planet! (sorry, I don't know why I found that funny)

Current titles want to offer gamers more and more opportunity with less and less hassle. That hassle needs to be experienced. 'Necessary evils' I do believe they are called. 5:1 activity:downtime wouldn't be a bad ratio to work with, just to throw some numbers out there. Players need to learn the way results are achieved, rather than being spoon-fed with results.

Originally posted by cukimunga

Yeah I remember the good old days of FFXI that game had downtime 4sho. Heck parties I was in we would have conversations in mid battle and we'd still kick ass.  We were all typing too, thats why I really didn't like most other games at first cuz it was so hard to fight and type.

But here is a way to bring back that social feeling back in games.   Use Ventrillo or Teamspeak, I know there is people out there saying only 1337 WoW kiddies use vent but when playing Fallen Earth you have to stop fighting just to type. My cousin and I have been using it and man does it bring back memories  of FFXI. It makes grouping fun again and a hell of a lot easier to tell people you need help cuz you got aggro.

Using Vent you get the best of both worlds, talking for all you chataholics out there and constant action for all the ADHD kiddies out there.

I don't like voice communication, although I admit it makes emergency situations a lot more manageable. I don't like it, because people talk over each other, have annoying voices or mannerisms, and it's not always easy to hear one person, especially over the ingame music and sounds.

With chat, people can scroll up to read what they missed. Typing takes longer, so people talk over each other less. No annoying voices or mannerisms, except for 1337 speak.

Originally posted by pojung

Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off. Rest, repeat. Grinding and downtime. They are the lessons that teach very valuable lessons. Risk versus reward. All of these things promote a wholeness of game understanding, forcing the gamer to become a better gamer, and in many cases, a better person in-game as well. Community is undeniably something that forms around downtime. Knowledge of game is undeniably something that forms around grinding. Put them together and what do you get? Captain Planet! (sorry, I don't know why I found that funny)

Current titles want to offer gamers more and more opportunity with less and less hassle. That hassle needs to be experienced. 'Necessary evils' I do believe they are called. 5:1 activity:downtime wouldn't be a bad ratio to work with, just to throw some numbers out there. Players need to learn the way results are achieved, rather than being spoon-fed with results.

Why?  Just wondering.  I've been playing online games pretty much since there were online games, and I don't see the point - unless you want to game that way.  They're games, not life lessons that you can only learn  by suffering through the "bad" stuff.  Not that I think those things were necessarily bad.  They were fun at the time, although sometimes frustrating.  It's just that if you don't want to bother with them, you don't have to anymore.  I don't need games to teach me lessons and I don't have to play the bits that are a hassle to appreciate them.  Games are improving and evolving, in my opinion, and the less down time, the better.  If you want the grindy bits, they still exist in games.  Sorry, no offense, but I just can't wrap my head around your point.  (err... I don't mean that in a pervy way!  )

MMOs severely lack downtime, but the problem with it is that the ones that do give you downtime make you feel like you're wasting it.

Back in the old days, I remember not caring about getting max level. Max level was no different than the level I was at, it didn't really matter in PVP or PVE, max level was basically the same as the intermediate levels. And that's what good about MMOs, games need more of this.

Originally posted by Signe

Originally posted by pojung

Wax on, wax off. Wax on, wax off. Rest, repeat. Grinding and downtime. They are the lessons that teach very valuable lessons. Risk versus reward. All of these things promote a wholeness of game understanding, forcing the gamer to become a better gamer, and in many cases, a better person in-game as well. Community is undeniably something that forms around downtime. Knowledge of game is undeniably something that forms around grinding. Put them together and what do you get? Captain Planet! (sorry, I don't know why I found that funny)

Current titles want to offer gamers more and more opportunity with less and less hassle. That hassle needs to be experienced. 'Necessary evils' I do believe they are called. 5:1 activity:downtime wouldn't be a bad ratio to work with, just to throw some numbers out there. Players need to learn the way results are achieved, rather than being spoon-fed with results.

 

Why?  Just wondering.  I've been playing online games pretty much since there were online games, and I don't see the point - unless you want to game that way.  They're games, not life lessons that you can only learn  by suffering through the "bad" stuff.  Not that I think those things were necessarily bad.  They were fun at the time, although sometimes frustrating.  It's just that if you don't want to bother with them, you don't have to anymore.  I don't need games to teach me lessons and I don't have to play the bits that are a hassle to appreciate them.  Games are improving and evolving, in my opinion, and the less down time, the better.  If you want the grindy bits, they still exist in games.  Sorry, no offense, but I just can't wrap my head around your point.  (err... I don't mean that in a pervy way!  )

I admit, at first, I shared your opinion Signe. I remember playing FFXI (funny how so many people have referred to it in this thread) and getting so annoyed that I would constantly need to take a break after each fight to recover hp and mp cuz I was a black mage.

But then I also remember how, during that time, I would take a good look around (as in pan the camera 360 degrees) and notice other people either running solo or in a group or even fighting or fishing. This was a world, where people other than me actually existed and did things. 

I remember during some resting with a group after taking down a massive camel thing, we would strategize how to defeat the next one with less casualties. This is a really interesting point you make OP and it's nice that you noticed something I, and I'm guessing many others have clearly missed.

So I think the solution is something along the lines of what the OP and Signe suggested. The grindy bits are annoying and sort of  a roadblock to fun for many, but if a game is going to call itself an MMORPG, it should be more than just an online single player game.

Is this a joke?

I play games to play games, not to sit around doing nothing. 

Originally posted by TheHatter

MMOs severely lack downtime, but the problem with it is that the ones that do give you downtime make you feel like you're wasting it.

Back in the old days, I remember not caring about getting max level. Max level was no different than the level I was at, it didn't really matter in PVP or PVE, max level was basically the same as the intermediate levels. And that's what good about MMOs, games need more of this.

I think this is why we are seeing more skill based games rather than level based now. But I'm not sure if that is a good solution, because a skill based game is really just a series of "levels", e.g. having being a 10 in swordmanship. People are still going to focus on getting that skill to max and do what they can to help themselves achieve this goal - so it becomes just a bunch of people playing a single player game at the same time, not an MMO.

I think having a game that is just a free play sort of thing, where you go around and actually experience things and learn from others instead of having an experience bar to gauge what you learned with numbers, will lead to the same outcome that the OP thinks downtime will cause.

A community would form in the exchange of ideas, no matter how fast or slow paced the actual action was.

One situation would be having unique skills or abilities that can be taught to other people. It would take some time to teach, and this would take place of the camp setting that some mentioned earlier. In this way, the action can still be quick paced, but if one is to become more effective in battle, he/she will need to take time to learn from others.

Lose it.

I want a fun, difficult and action packed fight where I succeed or fail by my own choices, and then I want a rapid recovery so that I can do it again.

Sitting around for 5+ minutes to regenerate after a fight does not appeal to me at all.

I type fast and have VOIP software. I can have a conversation between or even during fights.

I like it, i say bring it back!

Originally posted by Axehilt

Is this a joke?

I play games to play games, not to sit around doing nothing. 

 

Socializing has always been a component of MMORPG's. Since you're playing MMORPG's, wouldn't it stand to reason that socializing during downtime IS playing the game? If you don't force people to socialize, they just won't. Path of least resistance. There are exceptions to this rule, because some people stand around and talk or duel, or whatever anyways, but the vast majority will mind their own business and will rarely stop and talk with each other. Socializing is part of online play, at least it is in my opinion.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Is this a joke?

I play games to play games, not to sit around doing nothing. 

 

This

Hell no to downtime.

The amazing thing about this is that by removing downtime, you can proceed at precisely the pace you want.  If you think it's important to strategize or chat between each battle, then more power to you.  The mechanics are already in the game for you to do this.  Simply stop.

The inverse is not true.  If I am soloing, or playing with a group on a clock, we can't bypass dev imposed downtime.  I don't want to sit and stare at a bar refreshing, I want to play the game.

So your playstyle negatively impacts a lot of people while the inverse is not true.

Keep downtime out of games.  If you want to RP, then you can do so on your time, but don't make me wait when I either don't want to or can't socialize.

Originally posted by WSIMike

 Indeed. 

It's kinda sad, though, that the OP touches on two things - down-time and community (the latter seeming to result from the former) - are two things that many players these days seem to want *less* of. They don't want comraderie in a game... they just want people there to help them get their "phat lewt" on that end-game raid run they're doing for the 30th time, so they can move on to the next.

They don't care who you are, what your interests are, what you think about a given topic... They only care if you're the right class and have the optimal character build to help make sure they get their newest 'purple', so they can move on to getting the next one. Beyond that, they couldn't care less who's on the controlling side of that character. Many new MMOs have become *very* anti-social and the gameplay becoming more solo-friendly, with less down-time and a faster pace has only helped that happen.

Far and away, of all the MMOs I've played, the more down-time there was or, otherwise, the slower the pace of the game overall, the better communities they had. Every time. Without exception. If the game required grouping from early on (e.g. FFXI), or a lot of player interaction even outside of grouping (e.g. Lineage 2), then the community developed very early on and only grew larger and stronger as time went on. 

It's something I miss a lot about MMOs and that I really hope some developers/designers out there still see the value in nurturing. I think Square-Enix will maintain that in FFXIV. They see how strong the community in FFXI is - it's one of the more common reasons people come back, aside from the game itself being unique in the genre these days - and, I'm confident, they'll work to nurture it in XIV as well (fingers crossed). 

Aside from the social aspects, downtime facilitates other things...

- cigarette/food/bathroom breaks
- time re-supply for reagents, arrows, etc.
- stretch the legs, etc.
- rest your eyes for a few having stared at the monitor non-stop for an hour or more straight

and so on...

One important thing that, I think, serves as the foundation of all of that, though, is the idea that MMORPGs were conceived as long-term "online hobbies" that could persist, moreso than just short-term "games" that would be "finished" and then left behind to move on to the next. They've leaned more toward the "game" side in recent years and I think that's why we haven't seen as much community... you can't build community when players are ripping through the content and moving on to the next game so quickly.

 

110% agree.