Why would soe shut vanguard down when they can make some revenue from it?  Shutting down the game for no reason would be stupid and needlessly throwing money away.  Why would you even make that rediculous argument?

Also, by not shutting it down they get to play life guard and give the impression that they "saved" vanguard from closure and soe is in desperate need of positive image.  Then some people will look at soe spending money to repeat the same exact mistake microsoft made as an act of salvation.  Shutting down the game would eliminate any good press that soe built by partnering with sigil and further increased their bad image as a destroyer of games.   Did you actually think through your comments before typing them out?

There are plenty of other reasons, but you will not understand them as you seem preoccupied with trying to prove some other point.

I think what soe has down with vanguard is a shame and it was certainly intentional, but I am not so blind to see that it was a very smart business move for the life of the everquest series.  McQuaid was an idiot for getting involved with soe a second time, but it is his own fault for running the business into the ground and getting burned twice.

Well, it may be controversial, but I'll say this:  Vanguard, to me, is a far more worthwhile game than EQ (at this point).  Sony should push them both, but in terms of depth, the amazing diplomacy sphere, phenomenal crafting (I'm staring at you, EQ2, for being overly and ridiculously complicated, and in real-time, no less), great music, unique atmospheres (start with the viking longhouses, or the Orcs escaping from slavery on a crashed boat, or on and on -- all unique, flavorful, and extraordinary).  I still haven't decided if Vanguard replaces AC at the top of my list, but it's at the very least a strong competitor (and quite possibly the eventual winner).

Are all of you on crack?? Brad the idiot couldnt get a single person to touch his product, its been said by peopel on the game brad was hardly even there at the office helping with the game, he was trying to get the badly needed funds the game needed, without Soe this game would be vaporware, you wouldnt even be arguing because it would never have got released.  Soe gave Brad the option out and he chose that option.  So dont sit here and say Soe is the bad guys, because no they are not.   

Originally posted by Demz2

Are all of you on crack?? Brad the idiot couldnt get a single person to touch his product, its been said by peopel on the game brad was hardly even there at the office helping with the game, he was trying to get the badly needed funds the game needed, without Soe this game would be vaporware, you wouldnt even be arguing because it would never have got released.  Soe gave Brad the option out and he chose that option.  So dont sit here and say Soe is the bad guys, because no they are not.   

I don't think the OP's original statement is saying that at all, he/she just feels that SOE are deliberately holding VG back in terms of development.  And he'd be right.  But SOE are doing that for a reason.

SOE bought VG for one reason:  "Keep your friends close, and your enemies even closer".

They bought it to control the development of that product, in order to ensure that their main products are affected in the least possible way.  They only keep it going because it gives them extra money that they wouldn't get if they shut it down. 

From a perspective of whats required to keep it running, it's already running off existing SOE servers (probably old servers that used to be in other SOE games) and with a skeleton staff to do tweaks and bug fixes plus whaterver else they can manage fit in. 

Lastly, as someone pointed out, whilst VG is still alive then SOE are seen as the saviours of the game.  The moment they kill it, then that's another argument against them.

Because of these reasons, I don't believe that SOE would ever sell it.  To sell it would mean a true competitor could be resurrected and SOE would be seen in a worse light than it does now.  And they don't want that.

The only one who said Brad was out looking for funding was Brad.  Who knows what he was actually doing.  I think Brad ran back to SOE, because he has connections there and Smed was the only person willing to be "hands off" on the project.  Anyone else who would have invested in VG prior to its release would only have do so with a huge list of conditions to make sure that the sigil team did not continue running the game into the ground.  It is pretty obvious why Brad would take the offer from SOE.  More funding with zero oversight?  What kind of company makes that type of investment in a project that has already failed? 

Soe isn't the bad guy for putting vanguard in the position it was.  Brad created the situation and soe was presented with a golden opportunity to clip the wings of a game that was going to pillage the populations of their primary money makers if it had a decent release. 

However soe isn't a good guy for "saving" vanguard, because they never put any real effort into saving the game.  The very first action soe took was to remove the best programmers from the sigil/vanguard team and move them to another soe project. 

The end result is that it was in soe's best interest to not have a successful release of vanguard. 

Damn Gamers seem to have shorter memories these days.

VG would not even exist today if SOE had not bailed it out but I guess any credit that was due them, especially for those that got to keep their jobs, is long past its sel;l by date?

If SOE drops VG who on earth would pick it up? Who would want to buy a non-established I.P. with no additional merchandise revenue coming in and in an industry where the first couple of months normally decide the long term appeal of a new game (or not). The best VG players can hope for is that SOE keep spending server space on this game because no one else is going to.

This whole SOE is evil stuff is boring and shows how shallow some people are.

Why the fuck did they do that. they should be ashamed.

ill buy vanguard for 12million dollars.

Originally posted by Neopsych

Damn Gamers seem to have shorter memories these days.

VG would not even exist today if SOE had not bailed it out but I guess any credit that was due them, especially for those that got to keep their jobs, is long past its sel;l by date?

If SOE drops VG who on earth would pick it up? Who would want to buy a non-established I.P. with no additional merchandise revenue coming in and in an industry where the first couple of months normally decide the long term appeal of a new game (or not). The best VG players can hope for is that SOE keep spending server space on this game because no one else is going to.

This whole SOE is evil stuff is boring and shows how shallow some people are.

 +1 and this is comming from an ALPHA tester who played the game till 6 months later then came back again for a short stint a year later. VG was DoA until SoE gave Sigil funding. So stop acting like SoE is the bad guy , this game would have never launched if it wasn't for SoE. 

Originally posted by strykr619

Originally posted by Neopsych

Damn Gamers seem to have shorter memories these days.

VG would not even exist today if SOE had not bailed it out but I guess any credit that was due them, especially for those that got to keep their jobs, is long past its sel;l by date?

If SOE drops VG who on earth would pick it up? Who would want to buy a non-established I.P. with no additional merchandise revenue coming in and in an industry where the first couple of months normally decide the long term appeal of a new game (or not). The best VG players can hope for is that SOE keep spending server space on this game because no one else is going to.

This whole SOE is evil stuff is boring and shows how shallow some people are.

 +1 and this is comming from an ALPHA tester who played the game till 6 months later then came back again for a short stint a year later. VG was DoA until SoE gave Sigil funding. So stop acting like SoE is the bad guy , this game would have never launched if it wasn't for SoE. 

Vanguard wasn't much better than DOA on its release if you really want to split hairs.  No one was done any favors by the condition vanguard was in when it was pushed out the door.  

What exactly was vanguard saved from?  A swift death that would have been a minor story for a month.  Instead it has lingered long past any healthy semblance of an mmo and remains a constant reminder to any developer wanting to add a little sandbox to the theme park that they might end up like this nightmare.

If the company that "saved" vanguard from becoming vaproware was not willing to correct the problems that afflicted the project for the previous 4 years then it should have died in development.  Handing a pile of money to a mismanaged project without correcting the problems only guarentees it will continue to fail.  Time and money were not the issues behind the failure of vanguard. 

Does it make any sense for soe to spend money on a project that already failed and take no corrective measures to make sure it didn't continue spiraling down the toilet?  Would anyone posting here think that was a wise investment with their money? 

What the heck are you guys talking about? I read here on this very site how Vanguard was going to "kill" World of Warcraft! You mean it didn't happen? I said it wouldn't, but many people said it would. I said SOE would help ruin the game, you mean they didn't?

Originally posted by sebbonx

 I said SOE would help ruin the game, you mean they didn't?

Considering it was already ruined prior to SoE taking over Vanguard i would say that's a clear NO

Originally posted by Warjin

I'ts a shame a game with this much to offer is being held back by lack of funds, from what I read if this game had the right team can do some damage to compitition.

2 years ago no,even if fixed all the bugs in 1 week and had the best team it still would of failed, Why well because the system specs where 2 high for It's time, I would say maybe 10/15% could handle the specs 2 years ago.

Hell man the time is now with Vanguard,the system specs fill a larger base nowdays and with all the WoW burnouts and soon to follow Aion, Vanguard could and should take the jump, But they lack funds, so I wonder what we could do to help, any thoughts?

I would love for SoE to sell Vanguard to someone who will take better care of it, kind of sad really, Man if there where a Children and Youth for Mmos SoE would be in jail thats for sure lol.

Anytime a game has a small player base there instantly isn't budget for advertising. The only thing that can be done is if the community likes the game they can spread the word and try to get a bigger community and hope to cross the threshold of when it becomes big enough to have an advertising budget again.

People in the game I play (Asheron's Call) say the same thing but then none of them go out and talk about the game or invite others to come join, when that is more helpful then complaining that the company who has a budget to follow isn't willing to lose money on something that might not even come close to paying back. Advertising costs a lot, so if it's only going to bring in a couple hundred people who play for a month then it's not justified.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by strykr619

Originally posted by Neopsych

Damn Gamers seem to have shorter memories these days.

VG would not even exist today if SOE had not bailed it out but I guess any credit that was due them, especially for those that got to keep their jobs, is long past its sel;l by date?

If SOE drops VG who on earth would pick it up? Who would want to buy a non-established I.P. with no additional merchandise revenue coming in and in an industry where the first couple of months normally decide the long term appeal of a new game (or not). The best VG players can hope for is that SOE keep spending server space on this game because no one else is going to.

This whole SOE is evil stuff is boring and shows how shallow some people are.

 +1 and this is comming from an ALPHA tester who played the game till 6 months later then came back again for a short stint a year later. VG was DoA until SoE gave Sigil funding. So stop acting like SoE is the bad guy , this game would have never launched if it wasn't for SoE. 

Vanguard wasn't much better than DOA on its release if you really want to split hairs.  No one was done any favors by the condition vanguard was in when it was pushed out the door.  

 

What exactly was vanguard saved from?  A swift death that would have been a minor story for a month.  Instead it has lingered long past any healthy semblance of an mmo and remains a constant reminder to any developer wanting to add a little sandbox to the theme park that they might end up like this nightmare.

 

If the company that "saved" vanguard from becoming vaproware was not willing to correct the problems that afflicted the project for the previous 4 years then it should have died in development.  Handing a pile of money to a mismanaged project without correcting the problems only guarentees it will continue to fail.  Time and money were not the issues behind the failure of vanguard. 

 

Does it make any sense for soe to spend money on a project that already failed and take no corrective measures to make sure it didn't continue spiraling down the toilet?  Would anyone posting here think that was a wise investment with their money? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No shit if they had let it die then those who do enjoy the game might just wander into WOW territory, Christ .

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by sebbonx

 I said SOE would help ruin the game, you mean they didn't?

 

Considering it was already ruined prior to SoE taking over Vanguard i would say that's a clear NO

I would rather play the buggy half finished version of Vanguard than the shadow of its former self Vanguard out now. 
 

There is a very obvious thing that happened. SoE saw the potential of Vanguard, a game that targeted SoE's largest subscription base, EverQuest fans. SoE begins to publish the game. Then they cut off funding, forcing Sigil to release early. SoE gains publicity points by "bailing them out", fires most of the staff working on the game, then puts a skeleton crew to maintain what's left of the game, and slowly shape it into a slightly more sophisticated WoW clone. SoE still keeps its EQ numbers, and they got some good PR. 

If another company took over Vanguard right now, and returned it to it's proper state, it would easily be the top PvE MMORPG on the market. Hell, the only thing keeping it from being the best PvE MMO right now, is how slowly the game is being added to, due to the lack of staff, and the lack of SoE advertising. EQ1 gets an expansion, but Vanguard doesn't ? It's VERY obvious they want the game to die.

Originally posted by grandpagamer 

No shit if they had let it die then those who do enjoy the game might just wander into WOW territory, Christ .

You read this whole thread and that is all you were able to get from it?  Interesting.

Originally posted by SignusM

Originally posted by Fibsdk

Originally posted by sebbonx

 I said SOE would help ruin the game, you mean they didn't?

 

Considering it was already ruined prior to SoE taking over Vanguard i would say that's a clear NO

I would rather play the buggy half finished version of Vanguard than the shadow of its former self Vanguard out now. 
 

 

There is a very obvious thing that happened. SoE saw the potential of Vanguard, a game that targeted SoE's largest subscription base, EverQuest fans. SoE begins to publish the game. Then they cut off funding, forcing Sigil to release early. SoE gains publicity points by "bailing them out", fires most of the staff working on the game, then puts a skeleton crew to maintain what's left of the game, and slowly shape it into a slightly more sophisticated WoW clone. SoE still keeps its EQ numbers, and they got some good PR. 

 

If another company took over Vanguard right now, and returned it to it's proper state, it would easily be the top PvE MMORPG on the market. Hell, the only thing keeping it from being the best PvE MMO right now, is how slowly the game is being added to, due to the lack of staff, and the lack of SoE advertising. EQ1 gets an expansion, but Vanguard doesn't ? It's VERY obvious they want the game to die.

I agree, it is either sinister motives by SOE or they are just idiots, 50/50 possibility on that.

This game had the potential to be best PVE game ever, but it is wayyy to late, it was way too late the day they released the unfinished bugged out crap that it was.  It is a shame, because if this game had some more time to develope and work out the kinks it really could have been awesome.

What we have now is a lifesupport system crew for the game, it has less than 10k subs, and the only reason SOE even keeps it around is for their Station Pass.

Would they sell it? Who would really buy it now? The game is going on 3 years old, and whatever potential it had to dominate the market is long gone.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by M1sf1t

 

---

Originally posted by Thillian
Well that was the point why they bought it. So noone else could get it, improve it and compete to their precious Everquest franchise (with which is in direct competition).

---

 

No they got it because Brad Mcquid sold it to them in order to cash out from this flop.

 

You have described why Brad wanted to sell the game and I think that is accurate, but not why SOE wanted to BUY the game.

I am sure every business owner would like to sell their failures, but why would a company invest in a failed project and not take measures to make sure they same failure did not repeat itself?   What purpose did their investment serve and further buying the game?  It isn't like soe made a real effort to make the game comnpetitive as a producer or a developer.

Vanguard is in direct competition with Everquest 1 & 2, that is the main audience it appeals to. Imagine if the game fell into a sizeable, talented dev team that wasn't part of SOE it would take subs away from SOE for sure, better they nab it and do f*ck all with it then suffer a bigger blow. SOE themselves won't put any effort into it because why compete with its own audience, most of its players are in EQ 1 & 2. 

Originally posted by Tutu2 

Vanguard is in direct competition with Everquest 1 & 2, that is the main audience it appeals to. Imagine if the game fell into a sizeable, talented dev team that wasn't part of SOE it would take subs away from SOE for sure, better they nab it and do f*ck all with it then suffer a bigger blow. SOE themselves won't put any effort into it because why compete with its own audience, most of its players are in EQ 1 & 2. 

I am in total agreement with what you said and I think every bit of that makes more sense than soe investing in vanguard in some effort to turn it around.  

It is hard to look at the inaction of soe to change the course of the game and come to any other conclusion.

Its three years after release, three years of patching, things are better, things have been added, money has flown.

The content arguement and expansion arguement is silly.  The average character level is 10, 10, say it again 10.  Why would they release more end game content to a game that can't retain players past 10?  As much as I'd like to love VG, its a very niche game that just doesn't run well enough for a lot of people, isn't focused enough to really grab a niche and isn't broad enough to appeal to the masses.

VG was never a threat to EQ for the same reason EQ2 was never a threat to WoW.  Too different and too high of sys reqs for mass appeal.  Even today, mostly because of the engine's age, the best PCs can't play VG or EQ2 as intended without issue.  By that I mean raids, at balanced or better, above 24fps.

Course I could be wrong but I'd like to hear from those that see where it was or could go explain with real examples why VG could reach say EQ2 numbers?

ya see if a horse breaks its leg you shoot it put it out of its misery..well they did in the old days ..well any ways vanguard was like a young stallion at launch yes maybe not so refined like a show horse but the pure power n freedom of the game made up for it..but cple yeras later vangaurd not that stallion anymore it just walks in a circle with a carrot tide to its head going where ever the EQ hardcore raiders  "aka casual need two rift ways in each chunk to raid players"  tell it to go

if soe had to crunch some numbers they would shut down vangaurd but would never sell it vangaurd use to be the game to play now its full of holes and its just another game to beat