I'ts a shame a game with this much to offer is being held back by lack of funds, from what I read if this game had the right team can do some damage to compitition.

2 years ago no,even if fixed all the bugs in 1 week and had the best team it still would of failed, Why well because the system specs where 2 high for It's time, I would say maybe 10/15% could handle the specs 2 years ago.

Hell man the time is now with Vanguard,the system specs fill a larger base nowdays and with all the WoW burnouts and soon to follow Aion, Vanguard could and should take the jump, But they lack funds, so I wonder what we could do to help, any thoughts?

I would love for SoE to sell Vanguard to someone who will take better care of it, kind of sad really, Man if there where a Children and Youth for Mmos SoE would be in jail thats for sure lol.

Well that was the point why they bought it. So noone else could get it, improve it and compete to their precious Everquest franchise (with which is in direct competition).

Originally posted by Thillian

Well that was the point why they bought it. So noone else could get it, improve it and compete to their precious Everquest franchise (with which is in direct competition).

Sucks that they got to be so dam dirty like that, If I had my pick on witch should take over I would say CCP, EvEs people, they will work wonders with a fantasy mmo like Vanguard with no worries about Comp.

Offer them $500M for the product and I'll bet they'll be willing to sell it to you.

Anything can be bought for enough money.

Convince the share holders that there's significant money to be made in selling off the property.

...which there's not by the way.

Shareholders don't give a crap how good a property could be if someone else developed it, the cash value of the property has to be enough to make it worth selling, while simultaniously the profit potentional of the IP isn't high enough to make it worth holding on to.

Hell, Vanguard still makes money for SoE, look at other IPs like the old Sierra Advneture game that Vivendi Universal refuses to either invest in or let go of. Or the old Origin brands, Ultima, Wing Commander etc. And there's a greater possibility of your seeing any of those properties being licenced before you'll see SoE sell Vangaurd.

Vangaurd would have to be shut down before the idea of anyone else taking ti over even becomes a possibility.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Offer them $500M for the product and I'll bet they'll be willing to sell it to you.

Anything can be bought for enough money.

 

Um... for $500M... or $100M f*ck that $50M (roughly WoW's budget) you'd be better off developing your own game from scratch.

Hahahahahahahahaha...

Like anyone can make Smed do anything. Even when SOE is doing something Galactically stupid. Even under massive customer outcry.

Smed doesn't give a crap about you or any other customer.

Too bad you apparently like your game more than Smed does.

It's Smed's world, you just live in it.....

Originally posted by Burntvet

Hahahahahahahahaha...

Like anyone can make Smed do anything. Even when SOE is doing something Galactically stupid. Even under massive customer outcry.

Smed doesn't give a crap about you or any other customer.

Too bad you apparently like your game more than Smed does.

It's Smed's world, you just live in it.....

 

 

Oh that's not true. Sony is a publically traded compnay... if you convinced the share holders that it was in their interest to sell Vangaurd Smed wouldn't have much to say about it. But like I said, it's not in the share holders best interest to sell Vangaurd. It's not evil... it's business.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Offer them $500M for the product and I'll bet they'll be willing to sell it to you.

Anything can be bought for enough money.

 

^^ I agree. If not for SOE, there will be no Vanguard today anyway.

One thing that baffles me in the everyday operations of Sony is how one day they are cutting costs,then the next they are in charity mode buying up failing IP's.

Sony corp made staggering cost cutting measures,basically tore down MGM from a billion dollar giant into a floor cleaner for once small time studios.They cutting 100's of millions from their budgets,because they really did mimmick Vivendi[Blizzard] for horrible spending practices.I mean these guys were buying up anything and everything that was in the millions of dollars.

They put in place new execs to help maintain spending,then we see them do something like buy up VG?

I think what this tells us is that there is a huge amount of sneaky stuff that goes  on in big corporations.You see the SWG scandal and another recent game has a history of a scandalous background.

This could all be ways to create tax breaks,charge up large debts then put those subsidiaries into bankruptcy.

What i am getting at in a round about way,is that these guys are losing money and cutting costs a lot,so why on earth did they buy VG,that is the question you need to ask.They have shown no effort or care about the IP,so again why?

It is only 2 things IMO,they figure it makes a small amount of money on it's own,and they don't have to sink another dime into it.

The other factor could have to do with business dealings.I am pretty sure they were funding Sigil in some capacity,and with Sigil basically going bankrupt,perhaps this was a way to get some of their money back.After all it was apparent Sigil was not going to make any money from this game,therefor SOE was not going to get any of their money from it,so wtf buy it off them or inherit it whatever.

I think either way,in the end it shows they have no intention of sinking money into it,it is just there to make whatever income it can to reimburse SOE whatever they had sunk into it.It is truly tragic is ti a great game,but at this point ,millions of dollars and updates will not save it.

As a person who played Vanguard from beta to 6 months after release I can safely save SOE did nothing but great things to Vanguard when they took over.  I came back and checked it out after Sony took over and was very impressed with what they had did and the amount of time and money spend on a game that was pretty much dead when they bought it.

Who in their right mind would by vanguard?  Buy the engine to remake into a new game maybe, but buy a game that is basically a side note in MMO history...only SOE would buy that.

Originally posted by logicbomb82

As a person who played Vanguard from beta to 6 months after release I can safely save SOE did nothing but great things to Vanguard when they took over.  I came back and checked it out after Sony took over and was very impressed with what they had did and the amount of time and money spend on a game that was pretty much dead when they bought it.

What? There are four developers working on it. Four. Period. VG might be struggling with 15k subs, and the amount of devs just reflect that.

Originally posted by Wizardry

What i am getting at in a round about way,is that these guys are losing money and cutting costs a lot,so why on earth did they buy VG,that is the question you need to ask.They have shown no effort or care about the IP,so again why?

Here are my thoughts

1) A successful release of vanguard was going to ravage the subscriber base of EQ/EQ2.  Even with the horrible release there was significant drop in both games, but very short lived.  Vanguard was directly aimed at the player base of those games and if it was finished would have done some serious damage to soe revenues.  Even sharing the subscriber fee between sigil and soe would have been a net loss for soe unless far more people joined VG from non soe games than those who left soe games for VG.

2) Soe could fund the game for just long enough then cut funding which would force a release.  Sigil had zero bargaining power in the arangement and soe could make any rules they wanted.  They knew the game was being horribly mismanged by sigil when they bought it.  What company is stupid enough to buy a failed project and demand no changes for their funding?  Soe didn't make sigil change their failed company practices, because a successful vanguard was just going to cost soe money.  Every player that switched from EQ/EQ2 to Vanguard was a net loss to soe, even when they were partners with sigil. 

3) When the game folded, soe could scoop up the IP for cheap and look like they saved vanguard.  They desperately needed some positive PR at the time and this wasn't a bad little perk. 

4) It also gave them access to over 100 developers to fill up their other projects.  Lets face it, if you are a talented programmer job hunting, soe isn't a very attractive company to work for.  If you suddenly find yourself in a parking lot and unemployed, the chance to retake your old job, not have to job search and wonder where you will have to move is a pretty attractive offer.  

Soe stood to gain more from a failed vanguard than it did a successful one.  I doubt their cost has not even broke 10 million for everything up to date.  That is a cheaper price than if they had lost just 20k players to vanguard under another company 3 years ago.  In the long run it was a bargain. 

Originally posted by NotNiceDino

Originally posted by Burntvet

Hahahahahahahahaha...

Like anyone can make Smed do anything. Even when SOE is doing something Galactically stupid. Even under massive customer outcry.

Smed doesn't give a crap about you or any other customer.

Too bad you apparently like your game more than Smed does.

It's Smed's world, you just live in it.....

 

 

 

Oh that's not true. Sony is a publically traded compnay... if you convinced the share holders that it was in their interest to sell Vangaurd Smed wouldn't have much to say about it. But like I said, it's not in the share holders best interest to sell Vangaurd. It's not evil... it's business.

SOE is a boil on the butt of Big Sony. You can not be a shareholder of SOE, or the division that controls SOE, SMEI or whatever the acronym is. You have to own shares in the whole company.

Most shareholders do not / would not give a crap about whether Vanguard gets sold or not ot Smed does this or that. Compared to Sony consumer products, Sony Studios/Entertainment and the rest, SOE is the smallest of small potatos.

Which goes back to the point/title of this thread "How can we make...."

You can't. No customer can make SOE do a damn thing. You have to like what they do, or quit. Those are your choices.

Originally posted by Thillian

Well that was the point why they bought it. So noone else could get it, improve it and compete to their precious Everquest franchise (with which is in direct competition).

Yeah, good one. No one wanted Vanguard. When it launched it was crap, no one wanted to touch the game. 
 

Originally posted by Kyleran

Offer them $500M for the product and I'll bet they'll be willing to sell it to you.

Anything can be bought for enough money.

 

Ill give them Sony 500 Mill for Soe... Fire all the leads and hire more people and start fixing and updateing. Id beat Wow for total subs in 2 years.

Be better off just getting them to fire silius. Be cheaper too.

If you succeed, let me know. I'd love to get them to sell Planetside.

SOE bought VG because that's what they do.  That said VG is the spiritual successor to EQ while at the same time being nothing like it =)

It is however in SOE's interest to make VG top of the food chain but the engine just isn't there.  But for SOE, to quote Blizzard, if they are going to lose subs from EQ/EQ2 they want it to be to a game that's theirs.  Blizzard was referring to WoW and their 2nd gen MMO but same diff.  If SOE could turn VG into gold they would if for no other reason than to bleed subs from EQ/EQ2 to VG instead of LotRO, WoW, WAR, AoC, Aion... etc.

VG has a great combat and class system.  Diplomacy, crafting, the network and graphic engine are all lacking however so SOE focused on EQ2, can't really blame them.  Did SOE even buy the Unreal engine or are they stuck with outside support?  NCSoft at least has full control over CryEngine for Aion so was able to tweak it to MMO use.