Originally posted by thinktank001

Originally posted by Kexo

There are so many interesting bugs in this game. Some of them let you walk through walls. Some of them like the one I discovered a few days ago are awesome. Of course in order to verfiy this bug I had to replicate it a few times to make sure that it's real and repeatable. Unfortunately those ungratefull devs didn't see it that way and wacked me with the ban hammer eventhough I did /bug it. Oh well, maybe after my 12 days ban expire perhaps the devs can get this damn game out of the beta and cut down on all those game breaking...or at least keep the server up for one entire weekend.

 

If you actually made some profit from the exploit or progressed your character a significant amount, then there should not be any surprise on your behalf.   I think they are being more than generous giving you a 12 day ban and not a permaban.   However, if you only replicated the bug and did not benefit from it at all, then it is a bit ridiculous that they gave you a ban in the first place.

Hey now that is using common sense and rational,i'm not so sure they have GM's that have acquired that skill,i have never in all my gaming career,had any respect for GM's.Why? Because i have seen GM's do a horrible job,witch is the reason they are suppose to be GM's not because they like some fancy title.I VERY highly doubt the GM's in this game are  any different than all the rest i have encountered.

Ask yourself this,if the Gm's girlfriend or wife or child did the same thing would they get banned?simple answer no !.The bug IS Icarus studios fault not yours ,so IMO it is a two way street,they screwed up and you exploited,but you evened the score by reporting it,so it's done.If a rep from Icarus can come on this forum and tell me he would ban their own family member then i can accept bans of this nature,otherwise it is their problem,their screw up.They need to wake up and realize you are paying them money for that buggy software,it is not like they are  paying you.

I forgot to ask how soon you got banned?? DID they even have time to look over any game logs?or did they just auto ban like some Hitler wannabe?

SO...if you dropped your wallet on the sidewalk, and I found it and maxed out all your credit cards buying everything I like for myself, then gave you your wallet back...that would be ok with you right?? I mean, I didn't drop the damn thing - you did, I just took advantage of it for my own benefit. Starting to see the point yet??

Maybe if you left your keys in your car and I took it for a spin, bounced it off a few telephone poles before I returned it to you, that would be ok with you too right?

Just saying....

Nope you are talking about stealing real money,the only one that benefits from real money here is ICARUS,the user is paying his hard earned money for buggy software.

If the banned player was using an exploit to attain someone else's money/identity personal information that is a way different scenario.You could never compare glitching through a wall with using someone's CC"s that are not authorized to you.If anyone steals CC's and uses them that is jail time,you could NEVER jail anyone for glitching through a wall,as a matter of fact no judge would even listen to you.

I see, so rules only apply if your not paying for them? I mean sure, your paying a sub fee to play the game, but there are rules everyone who plays must abide by. In the real world, we have things like right and wrong, legal and illegal, we pay taxes and support our police who enforce those rules for us.

If I find your wallet that you left laying on the street, its ok for me to pick it up, I can even look through it if I like, but I can't use your credit cards to buy me stuff. That is against the law.

In this game I can find a bug that the devs left in the code, I can look at it a couple times if I want to, but I can't exploit it to make me a profit in the game. Thats against the rules.

You understand yet?

You're talking about moral choices in a MMO and thats completely irrelavent because the judge and executioner is Icarus. Their guideline regarding bugs is basically the same as SoE or any company. Any bugs that negative effect you, too bad. Any bugs that you benefit from intentionally or unintentionally is bannable.

It kinda sounds like you were exploiting this.  I mean, if I were a GM in FE and saw you continuously do this, then I would lay the ban hammer down as well.  If you were just making sure that you could duplicate the process, then one time is sufficient.  You duplicated it, it's likely a bug....report it and move on.  Continuously doing it, looks like you were exploiting the bug.  Sadly, I would side with the GM on this one.

Actually no, I'm not talking about moral choices, since its against the written rules you don't get to make the choice. And that is the point entirely. Some think that it is their choice to make, and that since they pay a monthly fee that they can break the rules, or if its in the game they have the right to use it however they wish. The fact is that its against the rules, the previous assumptions are just that, assumptions - not rights.

Here is a fact about FE, there are GM online pretty much all the time. If you as a player are unsure what your doing is against the rules or not, all you have to do is ask to speak to a GM. Within minutes they will be talking to you, and will be more than happy to answer those questions.

In this instance, when you thought you found a bug, had you asked the GM about it instead of taking it upon yourself to 'test it' and then 'use it to your advantage' you would not have had to worry about  a ban at all. By not asking them, then doing what you did, you asked to be held accountable for breaking the rules.

Try this analogy on for size...

You walk past a jewelry store at 2am and find the front door open, decide that its their fault they left it open so you waltz in and proceed to steal 2 mil in gems before walking out the same open door. After you have walked 3 blocks away you call 911 and tell them the door was left open. The next morning you get arrested for stealing the gems. Yeah I know, some people would say this is different, well is it really? You knew it was against the law/rules before you did it, and if you didn't you should have. Sure you reported the door being open, but not until after you already took advantage of it first. And did you really think they wouldn't look once they got there to check out the door (bug)?

The side effect is different, in RL you go to jail and keep Bubba happy in your pretty orange jumpsuit, in the game you get a 2 week banhammer upside the preverbial head. Same thing really though isn't it?

The only moral choice involved in this situation is 'should I knowingly take advantage of this and risk being caught for breaking the rules, or shouldn't I?' There had to be a point while you were doing this that this very question popped into your head, you just chose to either ignore it or you answered it the wrong way.

I founda nnice bug and Exploit the other day.

I got it to happen twice in a row then did /Bug, quickly filled it in then worked around the bug/exploit nad noted on it what I had made and that I had deleted the offending items

within 10 mins another toon magically appeared (i wasnt paying attention) and I did /local 'That is bugged, have reported it cos it can be exploited'

The toon responds 'it's ok I am just checking it out'

I shrug my shoulders and carry on, POOF the toon vanishes, a few moments later I get a post in my mailbox

'The bug you have reported has been confirmed, this will be fixed shortly, thank you'

Next Log in and BOOM its fixed.

I just think they need to make the dev toons look awesome rather than just as normal level 42 npc ;)

I just love the title of this thread.  You know full well that you weren't banned for "reporting a bug", you were banned for "profiting from a bug."  You can still argue about whether it was the right move on their part or not, but the title is intentionally misleading. 

No sympathy from me.

Bugs happen in games. If you run into a bug, you report it. You dont exploit it for your own gain, then report it. It is not a hard concept to grasp. Personally, I would have preferred your account be banned permanently, but that is just me. I hate cheaters

People are confused about the actual scope of what they're allowed to do. It's fairly simple.

It is not your job to test the bugs. It is your responsibility to report the bugs. Don't confuse the two or you will simply get yourself into a trouble. You don't want to report bugs, then don't. It's as simple as that. However, if you start testing bugs, trying to reproduce them, then you are opening yourself up to getting banned  because you are going outside of the scope of what you, as a user, are allowed to do.

Let's say you found a bug that dupes chips. The first time was an accident, but you just want to nail it down how it is done, so you do it again. Well, it was slightly different the second time, so you don't really have a clear idea of how you did it, so you do it a third time and find out exactly how it is done. You're now guilty of duping chips and can be banned for doing so. The difference of them testing for bugs and you testing for bugs is that they are in a controlled environment that has no effect on the live server. Everything you do has an effect within the live environment, which is precisely what they're trying to avoid/limit.

If you absolutely have to play with bugs, then do it on the test server and submit bug reports constantly, since that is what it is there for.

Originally posted by Kexo

There are so many interesting bugs in this game. Some of them let you walk through walls. Some of them like the one I discovered a few days ago are awesome. Of course in order to verfiy this bug I had to replicate it a few times to make sure that it's real and repeatable. Unfortunately those ungratefull devs didn't see it that way and wacked me with the ban hammer eventhough I did /bug it. Oh well, maybe after my 12 days ban expire perhaps the devs can get this damn game out of the beta and cut down on all those game breaking...or at least keep the server up for one entire weekend.

I can see what you were thinking, but I also think that you were asking for it :)

Originally posted by Kexo

There are so many interesting bugs in this game. Some of them let you walk through walls. Some of them like the one I discovered a few days ago are awesome. Of course in order to verfiy this bug I had to replicate it a few times to make sure that it's real and repeatable. Unfortunately those ungratefull devs didn't see it that way and wacked me with the ban hammer eventhough I did /bug it. Oh well, maybe after my 12 days ban expire perhaps the devs can get this damn game out of the beta and cut down on all those game breaking...or at least keep the server up for one entire weekend.

Was the ban implemented before/during/after the action? Did you learn of it, repeat it then report it or were you in the middle of the act when you were banned?

To the people saying he was exploting when he sold to the vendor.  There is only afew ways to tell if his newfound dupe was client-sided or server-sided and it wouldv had to been trading,selling, or crafting items using those items.

So all he did was choose one of the 3 that was the quickest which was selling.  I think that once he reported a dupe, the gms temp banned his account from disallowing him to do anything else while they investigated the matter to avoid a rollback from someone buying all the ah stuff etc etc.