I checked mmogchart.com but it hasn't been updated since April 2008. Does anyone know of another chart that is always updated as to the population rankings of today's MMO's?

Thanks in advance.

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

 

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

^ this

but you can look at xfire for a sample sizing of whats going on, though that isn't either a true showing of whats going on.

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

 

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

 

^ this

 

but you can look at xfire for a sample sizing of whats going on, though that isn't either a true showing of whats going on.

Xfire is as close as you can get to a true sampling , I would say, ....

        and that is woefully innacurate.

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

 

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

People in the industry do actually discuss things with each other, and SirBruce did know quite a few developers. Your post is gross misinformation on all counts and does an extreme disservice to those looking for this type of info.

CyberWiz has picked up maintaining the charts. His site can be found here: http://www.mmodata.net/

ya by no means did i mean to suggest xfire is accurate at all.. but it will show you a small % of whats going on.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

 

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

 

People in the industry do actually discuss things with each other, and SirBruce did know quite a few developers. Your post is gross misinformation on all counts and does an extreme disservice to those looking for this type of info.

CyberWiz has picked up maintaining the charts. His site can be found here: http://www.mmodata.net/

read my initial post...remember how i mentioned how people laughed at people who referred to that site.....

lol, guess what?

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

 

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

 

^ this

 

but you can look at xfire for a sample sizing of whats going on, though that isn't either a true showing of whats going on.

 

Xfire is as close as you can get to a true sampling , I would say, ....

        and that is woefully innacurate.

Nah, xfire very niche. Some of the most pop games around hardly have any xfire subs.

Short answer is no, there never has nor prob ever will be a reliable sub # site.

One and only I know of was way back in the day when SONY tracked eq1 #'s via its server pop, of course nothing else was around except UO and it didnt care.

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by iamnotsevere

No. Because mmochart was basically fraudulant in that it got most of its numbers out of thin air. People caught on and laughed at other people who referred to it.

 

There is no way of knowing sub numbers in the vast majority of games, so sites like this do not exist.Not legitimate ones anyway.

 

People in the industry do actually discuss things with each other, and SirBruce did know quite a few developers. Your post is gross misinformation on all counts and does an extreme disservice to those looking for this type of info.

CyberWiz has picked up maintaining the charts. His site can be found here: http://www.mmodata.net/

read my initial post...remember how i mentioned how people laughed at people who referred to that site.....

 

 

lol, guess what?

Nice self-serving prophecy you have there...

Anyway, the argument is there is information and then there is the validity of that information. If you fgo to the website that is the "new" mmochart (which Lynx linked), it provides you with a list of games AND the documented sources for games and where the information comes from. Is it 100% accurate? No, and there is even a disclaimer stating it. However, there are a lot of links to reports that state or indirectly state how a game is doing.

The thing is, the information is out there but people have to want to find it and then utilize it. For many, the truth hurts so when there is official documentation that their game of choice is doing poorly, they either refuse to accept the numbers or the do their best to discredit the gatherer of the information.

Sire Bruce did a great job gathering the information and providing the documentation for his sources. At least he did his best and provide the best information possible.....which is much more than anyone else has done or even attempted to do so personally I think he deserves more than to be called "fraudulent". Cyberwiz has continued that work and now links the sources of the subscriber information. It may not be perfect but it is an educated guess.

Sub numbers are fluid and are constantly changing, At any given moment, they can change and will change and it is impossible to know exactly what they are. However, utilizing the mmodata.net website and cross-referencing that with X-fire numbers (to look at recent trends) you can get an idea of how a game is doing. Would I use it in a report or a paper for school? No. Would I use it to make a personal assumption how a game is doing? Yes.

I remember when SirBruce's "data" said PlanetSide had 50,000 subscribers when hardly 20,000 characters were logging in every month.  Consider the average PlanetSide subscriber has a handful of characters and his "data" becomes laughable.  The best part is you call him out on that and he basically says he doesn't care and isn't changing it.

Originally posted by goneglockin

I remember when SirBruce's "data" said PlanetSide had 50,000 subscribers when hardly 20,000 characters were logging in every month.  Consider the average PlanetSide subscriber has a handful of characters and his "data" becomes laughable.  The best part is you call him out on that and he basically says he doesn't care and isn't changing it.

Really?

Here is the quote from the website:

"PlanetSide (Accuracy Rating: B)
Launched on May 20, 2003, PlanetSide has not done as well as SOE initially planned. After peaking at some 60,000 subscribers in October 2003, the game has been in decline. Insider sources place the number of PlanetSide subscribers as of May 2006 at around 20,000. http://planetside.station.sony.com/"

http://www.mmogchart.com/analysis-and-conclusions/

Not sure what you read but I read it very differently from your interpretation.

Well, WoW has 11.5 million subscribers which is over is 10X the amount of subscribers of all the other P2P games except Aion (which I think had around the 6-7 million mark).  It's possible WoW has more subscribers than all the P2P MMOs combined.  Kind of sad really.  Still, I think it's a pretty accurate reflection of the quality of MMOs we've been getting lately.

Lol.  May of 06.  That must have been around when I had my nasty email exchange with SirBruce.  Guess I'm the inside source.  He still had shit in his ears.  20,000 characters... not 20,000 subscribers...  Jesus.  Bout x2-x3 difference between "characters" and "subscribers."

I haven't sent him an email since then so I apologize for the lack of updates.  lol.  Lord knows how much else of his data he just pulled out of his ass.  That's why you never ever use those numbers.

There is no way to tell for sure. Lots of companies will spit out numbers but for all we know they lie. It is in their best interest since ppl like you want to know right?

Wow goes around spouting off numbers and forget to tell you that their servers can only hold so many players, not like you'll be playing with 10m subscribers, nope, more like the 20k range at best. But since they have 2 factions split that in half since you can only connect with your side. It's classic bait and switch and ppl fall for it daily.

Here's an example of a chart ppl send info to from the /who so it counts characters, not accounts. Yet, wow advertising wants you to believe there are millions around... mmm hmmm sure are - spread out around a bagillion servers and half of em or more you can't talk to and a good percentage are bots.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

Take a smaller place like LOTRO - yes, there are less subs but you encounter more ppl sometimes because they aren't spread into more servers. LOTRO has less than 10 servers if I remember right.

Those charts and xfire are not reliable stats either. Heck the hype on this site is no good either, I've never voted for one thing yet of course, I have opinions. I rarely run xfire when playing and I never saw a poll from the site that claims they know sub counts asking me if I still play x game.

 I can't find the link but I saw some info once about server farms in wow and I thought they stated between 2k - 6k max players on a server. Don't quote me on that because I need to refind the data lol

From their own website

http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?080122

"WORLD OF WARCRAFT® REACHES NEW MILESTONE: 10 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS
Subscriber base for Blizzard Entertainment®'s massively multiplayer online role-playing game now exceeds 2.5 million in North America, while Europe passes the 2 million mark "

Now... if 2m are europe and 3m are north america then how many does that leave that aren't either, so convenient to not talk about those - the majority of their players won't even speak english in all likelihood.

Read this if you like and get your mind around the difference of subscribers and what they don't advertise, well no game does.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2943#d49dd

Originally posted by a_name

There is no way to tell for sure. Lots of companies will spit out numbers but for all we know they lie. It is in their best interest since ppl like you want to know right?

Wow goes around spouting off numbers and forget to tell you that their servers can only hold so many players, not like you'll be playing with 10m subscribers, nope, more like the 20k range at best. But since they have 2 factions split that in half since you can only connect with your side. It's classic bait and switch and ppl fall for it daily.

Here's an example of a chart ppl send info to from the /who so it counts characters, not accounts. Yet, wow advertising wants you to believe there are millions around... mmm hmmm sure are - spread out around a bagillion servers and half of em or more you can't talk to and a good percentage are bots.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

Take a smaller place like LOTRO - yes, there are less subs but you encounter more ppl sometimes because they aren't spread into more servers. LOTRO has less than 10 servers if I remember right.

Those charts and xfire are not reliable stats either. Heck the hype on this site is no good either, I've never voted for one thing yet of course, I have opinions. I rarely run xfire when playing and I never saw a poll from the site that claims they know sub counts asking me if I still play x game.

 I can't find the link but I saw some info once about server farms in wow and I thought they stated between 2k - 6k max players on a server. Don't quote me on that because I need to refind the data lol

From their own website

http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?080122

"WORLD OF WARCRAFT® REACHES NEW MILESTONE: 10 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS
Subscriber base for Blizzard Entertainment®'s massively multiplayer online role-playing game now exceeds 2.5 million in North America, while Europe passes the 2 million mark "

Now... if 2m are europe and 3m are north america then how many does that leave that aren't either, so convenient to not talk about those - the majority of their players won't even speak english in all likelihood.

Read this if you like and get your mind around the difference of subscribers and what they don't advertise, well no game does.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2943#d49dd

 

 That has always been one of the things I have always though funny about Blizzards commercials when they report there numbers, they never tell you that a bunch of them are chinese.

On the topic at hand I have never liked those chart sites for one reason, some of the companies that make MMOs are privately owned. So they never ever have to release there sub numbers to anyone, so where is ever one getting there data. For example I have seen turbine tell people over and over again that they do not discuss there sub numbers with anyone. Now publicly held companies have to release everything to the public so I can see where people can speculate based on there profit and loss statements. So to me any chart that holds a privately held companies sub numbers is automatically bogus.

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by a_name

There is no way to tell for sure. Lots of companies will spit out numbers but for all we know they lie. It is in their best interest since ppl like you want to know right?

Wow goes around spouting off numbers and forget to tell you that their servers can only hold so many players, not like you'll be playing with 10m subscribers, nope, more like the 20k range at best. But since they have 2 factions split that in half since you can only connect with your side. It's classic bait and switch and ppl fall for it daily.

Here's an example of a chart ppl send info to from the /who so it counts characters, not accounts. Yet, wow advertising wants you to believe there are millions around... mmm hmmm sure are - spread out around a bagillion servers and half of em or more you can't talk to and a good percentage are bots.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

Take a smaller place like LOTRO - yes, there are less subs but you encounter more ppl sometimes because they aren't spread into more servers. LOTRO has less than 10 servers if I remember right.

Those charts and xfire are not reliable stats either. Heck the hype on this site is no good either, I've never voted for one thing yet of course, I have opinions. I rarely run xfire when playing and I never saw a poll from the site that claims they know sub counts asking me if I still play x game.

 I can't find the link but I saw some info once about server farms in wow and I thought they stated between 2k - 6k max players on a server. Don't quote me on that because I need to refind the data lol

From their own website

http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?080122

"WORLD OF WARCRAFT® REACHES NEW MILESTONE: 10 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS
Subscriber base for Blizzard Entertainment®'s massively multiplayer online role-playing game now exceeds 2.5 million in North America, while Europe passes the 2 million mark "

Now... if 2m are europe and 3m are north america then how many does that leave that aren't either, so convenient to not talk about those - the majority of their players won't even speak english in all likelihood.

Read this if you like and get your mind around the difference of subscribers and what they don't advertise, well no game does.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2943#d49dd

 

 That has always been one of the things I have always though funny about Blizzards commercials when they report there numbers, they never tell you that a bunch of them are chinese.

On the topic at hand I have never liked those chart sites for one reason, some of the companies that make MMOs are privately owned. So they never ever have to release there sub numbers to anyone, so where is ever one getting there data. For example I have seen turbine tell people over and over again that they do not discuss there sub numbers with anyone. Now publicly held companies have to release everything to the public so I can see where people can speculate based on there profit and loss statements. So to me any chart that holds a privately held companies sub numbers is automatically bogus.

 

Wotlk sold 4million copies in the first month of release (only avaliable outside of china), Wotlk and WoW has been in the top 10 monthly sales spots since... thats all we need to know.

Originally posted by coffee

Originally posted by AKASlaphappy

Originally posted by a_name

There is no way to tell for sure. Lots of companies will spit out numbers but for all we know they lie. It is in their best interest since ppl like you want to know right?

Wow goes around spouting off numbers and forget to tell you that their servers can only hold so many players, not like you'll be playing with 10m subscribers, nope, more like the 20k range at best. But since they have 2 factions split that in half since you can only connect with your side. It's classic bait and switch and ppl fall for it daily.

Here's an example of a chart ppl send info to from the /who so it counts characters, not accounts. Yet, wow advertising wants you to believe there are millions around... mmm hmmm sure are - spread out around a bagillion servers and half of em or more you can't talk to and a good percentage are bots.

http://www.warcraftrealms.com/realmstats.php

Take a smaller place like LOTRO - yes, there are less subs but you encounter more ppl sometimes because they aren't spread into more servers. LOTRO has less than 10 servers if I remember right.

Those charts and xfire are not reliable stats either. Heck the hype on this site is no good either, I've never voted for one thing yet of course, I have opinions. I rarely run xfire when playing and I never saw a poll from the site that claims they know sub counts asking me if I still play x game.

 I can't find the link but I saw some info once about server farms in wow and I thought they stated between 2k - 6k max players on a server. Don't quote me on that because I need to refind the data lol

From their own website

http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/company/press/pressreleases.html?080122

"WORLD OF WARCRAFT® REACHES NEW MILESTONE: 10 MILLION SUBSCRIBERS
Subscriber base for Blizzard Entertainment®'s massively multiplayer online role-playing game now exceeds 2.5 million in North America, while Europe passes the 2 million mark "

Now... if 2m are europe and 3m are north america then how many does that leave that aren't either, so convenient to not talk about those - the majority of their players won't even speak english in all likelihood.

Read this if you like and get your mind around the difference of subscribers and what they don't advertise, well no game does.

http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=2943#d49dd

 

 That has always been one of the things I have always though funny about Blizzards commercials when they report there numbers, they never tell you that a bunch of them are chinese.

On the topic at hand I have never liked those chart sites for one reason, some of the companies that make MMOs are privately owned. So they never ever have to release there sub numbers to anyone, so where is ever one getting there data. For example I have seen turbine tell people over and over again that they do not discuss there sub numbers with anyone. Now publicly held companies have to release everything to the public so I can see where people can speculate based on there profit and loss statements. So to me any chart that holds a privately held companies sub numbers is automatically bogus.

 

 

Wotlk sold 4million copies in the first month of release (only avaliable outside of china), Wotlk and WoW has been in the top 10 monthly sales spots since... thats all we need to know.

Yea bear in mind most of WoW's fanbase playing there game soon found that they had to buy the expansion pack. So rather those numbers show the ammount of current subscribers who feel they have to compete rather than how popular WoW is. Also a lot of sites and places which use a Top 10 system to promote games place games in the top based on what servs them the best or by what serves there Advertising income more [as in WoW pays more if you give glowing reviews].

Not that i am saying WoW is a poor game of course this is just my personall observation over the past 18 years.

That mmodata site is a joke. There's not a single MMO I can think of that regularly releases its subscriber numbers. Even WoW hasn't released subscriber numbers for about 9 months and that was during the christmas/expansion spike. And most of the numbers the site does have are from completely dodgy unofficial sources.

There's also the west/east divide.. pay-per-hour customers aren't really "subscribers" in the same way, are they?

Subscribers is a bad measure in this respect. Average online users during peak hours would give a far better picture.

As for xfire, it's not all that great either. There's mostly a certain demographic of player that uses xfire, the "competitive gamer" type (fps, WoW arena etc). It's like asking people in rural texas who they would vote for and saying it's a picture of the whole of the USA.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Well, WoW has 11.5 million subscribers which is over is 10X the amount of subscribers of all the other P2P games except Aion (which I think had around the 6-7 million mark).  It's possible WoW has more subscribers than all the P2P MMOs combined.  Kind of sad really.  Still, I think it's a pretty accurate reflection of the quality of MMOs we've been getting lately.

There is not even an official source saying aion has 3.5 million.    I would be surprised if they had even that amount of players.   Although I thought there was an official number posted on the max number of players per server.  I can't seem to remember where or when I saw it.

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Originally posted by joejccva I checked mmogchart.com but it hasn't been updated since April 2008. Does anyone know of another chart that is always updated as to the population rankings of today's MMO's? Thanks in advance.

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www.mmodata.net/ is continuing the good work.