Greets

I been here before but i'm hoping you all found something i haven't yet

Looking for a fantasy MMo that has a free trial.

Crafting that means something(stuff you make is on par or better than quest rewards)

PvP like EQ2(they have lvl restrictions when you first start out, and the level restrictions become more lax the higher zones you go into)

a game that has a community(not a dead game)

Not a brand new mmo(not gonna pay 50$ so i can have Tons of lag, Server restarts and rollbacks)

Games I have tried and reasons i left

Jumgate - at the time i was on dial up and just couldn't compete in this twitched based space simm mmo(this was back in 2000)

Everquest(dungeons of norrath) - hellish grind, crafting moneysink, you couldn't mine ore, u had to kill in oreder to craft(my first experience with SOE, i was warned by all my gamer friends that I would end up hating and loathing SOE)

SWG(never played before NGE) - didn't like the plot,  my quests were really basic, and since i wanted to play a jedi(a good one) working for a hut just wasn't my cup of tea.(not to mention it took me 4 days to get the downloads, and it didn't come from SOE, had to get it from File planet, guess u an say SWG had 2 strikes against it already)

Vanguard - LOVED the Crafting in here, but the PvP server seemed like a bloody ghost town, and the Pve wasn't much better(on top of that had mondo problems with downloading the game, as well as glitches and bugs)

Everquest 2 - Loved the game except to be proffecient on a pvp server you had to max out your AA, and in order to do that, you had to do almost Every Bloody Quest out there, and that became an even worst grind than Everquest.  They installed a general exp conversion to AA slider but it only goes to 50% on the PvP servers(this was the nail in the coffin for me on why I Hate and Loathe SOE)

Eve online - just didn't like the skill being time-based.  and when calli came out and they totally Nerfed Ewar, that was it for me. 

Vendetta online - a space sim with no shields just wasn't right for me.

WoW(burning crusade) - Good game, changed everything i thought about Fantasy mmo's, didn't like the pvp(yea i can beat up a 5 yr old, but why.  to me same rules apply to WoW.  yea my 70 can hang out in ashenvale and kill everything there, but why)

LOTRO - crafting, to me, seems a lil long winded, i mean i would be out by Combe lookin all over for tin deposits, Ouch.  Plus it's primarally PVE, with, once again my oppinion, the PvP reminding me of WoW's Battlegrounds

DDO - don'ty know much bout the crafting, felt like it was only quest based, mayby if they combined lotro and ddo together and then have a good player base and a bad player base. . .  i'm asking too much.

Ultima online(started playing in 2009) - just started playing this, Love the crafting, but i believe this population is smaller than Vanguard.  don't know much about this game to actually say anything else.

Well hope that helps.  to be honest i tried the "free trial" from Fallen Earth(yea i went back on my idea bout new games) and all i see is way to much server downtimes and Lagg (sundays is a black day for this game. . . )

Thankyou for your replies.

 Sorry I`m in a rush posting this and I`m only replying in regards to the post' title.

If you want crafting, go for Fallen Eartth. 95% of world items are crafted.

/R.

Originally posted by Beermangler

 Sorry I`m in a rush posting this and I`m only replying in regards to the post' title.

 

If you want crafting, go for Fallen Eartth. 95% of world items are crafted.

 

/R.

check out my last paragraph mate. 

Well then I guess Ryzom is the only other game that has good crafting. Its just there isn't all that many people in the starter areas.

I never really played FE on a sunday till late so IDK about the lag. I just know cities slow me down on the weekdays but is usually ok, just need to turn down the graphics before I head into town.  I also don't know to much about server downtime since ive never experience a server crash in the game as of yet.

But what new games usually don't have a problem on the weekends? Im glad I do most of my playing during the week and go out and chill with friends on the weekend.

Let us know when you find one. I don't think it exists. The only game that I can think of that was a decent game outside of crafting and continued to have an incredible crafting setup was SWG before all the changes.

Also, what people consider as decent crafting will be different depending on who you ask. Some prefer some kind of player interaction with several steps such as Everquest 2 when it was first released (not the simplified version that is today). Some prefer crafting to make them self sufficent rather than farming instances. Some prefer crafting allow the variance in their items, such as Ryzom. Some want crafting to be the major source of items in the game - like Horizons and Darkfall.

On thing that is not mentioned too often that pushes the need to craft is a game with a player driven economy. Like Eve Online. It allows the player base to drive demand in the crafting circles and keeps both the high level/rank and low level/rank craftters busy. I have yet to see this and any of the above statements in the same game other than Eve Online - and also be a game that isn't a horrible pve/pvp (depending on type of game) experience. We need more.

I played Fallen Earth for nearly a month now. The problem that I have with the crafting is that during the low levels - everyone is a crafter and everyone has the ability (if they want to) to craft pretty much everything. Approaching the mid-tier levels, people need to somewhat specialize their character to craft. But, it felt rather empty and meaningless to craft unless you needed the item for yourself or someone that you knew that needed it. The economy just isn't there to support the crafting. At the moment, it's not too bad. But, eventually, everyone will have a crafting alt or won't have the need for certain items and those that do, will simply get it from someone that they already know.

To me, the original idea behind Horizon's would have been the ideal crafter's MMO. However, the playability of the rest of the game killed off most of the playerbase and with it - the entire market audience. It's kinda pointless to craft if you have no one to craft for. If you are interested in solo-crafting there are tons of single player games that offer a great crafting experience.

I highly suggest Ryzom, it has a sound crafting and combat system. It takes the standard MMO 'grindfest' and innovates it, so it rarely becomes boring. Instead of a total, static 'level' your character has, you gain levels in 4 different areas: Fight, magic, craft and harvest. When you go past the 'max level' for one area it branches out and specializes into new areas where you can gain new skills. For example when you get level 21 in magic 2 branches open up called Defense magic and Offense magic, and you can level in those by killing mobs or healing teammates. It branches out every 50 levels until you hit the max in any branch, 250. There isn't a total level limit like other games, so you don't have to specialize in one, you can level them all up to 250 (although this takes a very, VERY long time).

Skills are much different than normal games in that you build your own skills with 'Stanzas', and you can spend skill points to buy new stanzas for your skills. E.g. you can modify your default attack to have stronger damage, then attach an accuracy stanza, and a stanza that ignores armor. Then you can add a stanza that only makes it activate when you parry or get a critical hit. You can do this with magic too, along with crafting, prospecting and extracting (Aka foraging, or digging).

The crafting is dynamic, you don't just pick up a recipe and build it with the same materials over and over. You can choose your own materials which have many different stats, and improve your crafting skill (made of stanzas) to make higher quality versions of an item. The higher quality an item is, the more different it looks and you can see people with cool looking, glowing weapons which they harvested and crafted themselves. Instead of buying an 'Awesome sword' recipe, you just buy the 'Sword' plan and build up your crafting skills to make that 'Awesome sword'.

People claim the game is 'dead' but it's not. The company still works on the game (however it is a shadow of its formal glory, the company went bankrupt at some point and lost a lot of players). Usually you can get 100 or more people playing at once. but the entire community is very friendly and keen to help out newbies. Sometimes too friendly, hehe. Despite the somewhat small playerbase the community feels large and is very helpful.

There's so much in the game that explaining it would turn this (already big) post into a multi-page article, so go ahead and check it out for yourself. www.ryzom.com.

EVE Online - the best 'crafting' system ever created.

Real time skill training is good since it promotes player skills.

Nerfed e-war? 'calli'?

Wurm online? If crappy 3d graphics are fine.

Originally posted by Gdemami

EVE Online - the best 'crafting' system ever created.

Real time skill training is good since it promotes player skills.

Nerfed e-war? 'calli'?

yea eve is descent.  player skills though?  don't get that.  The expansion after cold war(you know the one where they nerfed missles) well I admit before calli Ewar was overpowered, but after Calli. . . kinda remindes me what they did to beastmaster hunters in wow rescently.  but then again. . .

Ryzom sounds descent.  i just may have to take another look at her again.  don't know, i remember i liked the game at first but can't remember why i left.

and wyrum, i'll take a look at it,  but who knows mayby rzom again.

Nvm you said fantasy...

Ryzom has extremely little PvP (instanced too, I believe) and no population, so that misses on 2 of your requests.

No population or PvP on Wurm, if I recall correctly.

DDO has no crafting for all intents and purposes.

---

Originally posted by joojoo1975
yea eve is descent.  player skills though?  don't get that.  The expansion after cold war(you know the one where they nerfed missles) well I admit before calli Ewar was overpowered, but after Calli. . .

---

In EVE, your success is not depending on time you spent in the game but how you play - player skills.
I have to admit that industry is basicaly more skill dependent, but it dos not make your wit less important.

That was in 2005, the game is nothing like that nowadays, even though current way of development is a bit idiotic...

You should try Ryzom, all items are crafted by players and mobs only drop materials (which you can sell for money or craft stuff). Also, this game has the best community I have ever seen in a mmo.

It doesn't have a pvp in the way you specified, but I can say that we have some nice battles for outposts...

You should try it, Ryzom has a 21 days free trial and is totally worth the monthly fee

---

Originally posted by PhelimReagh
Ryzom has extremely little PvP (instanced too, I believe) and no population, so that misses on 2 of your requests.

---

Ryzom's PvP isn't instanced. PvP boils down to informal skirmishes like WoW's TM battles (though not on the same scale) or Guild v. Guild outpost battles for control of resources. With outpost battles, a guild or group of guilds can declare war on an outpost that's owned by another guild. A time is picked so that both sides can gather their forces for the battle. The defenders will have help in the form of NPC guards that show up several times in the battle. To win control of the outpost, the attackers have to defeat the defenders and their guards more times than they get repelled. If they do that, they become the defenders and the previous owners become the attackers. A new time is set for this part of the war. If the new defenders successfully defend their new outpost, then it officially becomes theirs.

It sounds complicated, but it's not. And it's not instanced. Anyone can go to the site of the outpost war and pick a side to play with. Or you can be neutral and just watch the battle unfold.

 Three Words: Saga of Ryzom (www.ryzom.com)  Crafting is a very important part of the game and you have to discover your own recipies. I have never seen a more involved crafting system ever.

Originally posted by Nizur

 

---

Originally posted by PhelimReagh
Ryzom has extremely little PvP (instanced too, I believe) and no population, so that misses on 2 of your requests.

---

 

Ryzom's PvP isn't instanced. PvP boils down to informal skirmishes like WoW's TM battles (though not on the same scale) or Guild v. Guild outpost battles for control of resources. With outpost battles, a guild or group of guilds can declare war on an outpost that's owned by another guild. A time is picked so that both sides can gather their forces for the battle. The defenders will have help in the form of NPC guards that show up several times in the battle. To win control of the outpost, the attackers have to defeat the defenders and their guards more times than they get repelled. If they do that, they become the defenders and the previous owners become the attackers. A new time is set for this part of the war. If the new defenders successfully defend their new outpost, then it officially becomes theirs.

It sounds complicated, but it's not. And it's not instanced. Anyone can go to the site of the outpost war and pick a side to play with. Or you can be neutral and just watch the battle unfold.

TM Battles? I've been otu of WoW for a while and never really did a whole lot of PvP outside of battlegrounds, so I don't know what that means.

And the other option sounds like Wintergrasp, except that you fight to control resources instead of access to a popular instance/dungeon (Vault of Archavon ... forgive spelling on that one).

Fallen Earth has some of the most detailed and addictive crafting in any recent MMO I've played.

You can just continually craft and level without having to do a single quest if you want.

Futhermore, every single thing you craft is actually useful for your level, and won't be replaced by loot like other MMOs.

Fallen Earth. Crafting system is very deep.

---

Originally posted by PhelimReagh

---

Originally posted by Nizur
 Ryzom's PvP isn't instanced. PvP boils down to informal skirmishes like WoW's TM battles (though not on the same scale) or Guild v. Guild outpost battles for control of resources. With outpost battles, a guild or group of guilds can declare war on an outpost that's owned by another guild. A time is picked so that both sides can gather their forces for the battle. The defenders will have help in the form of NPC guards that show up several times in the battle. To win control of the outpost, the attackers have to defeat the defenders and their guards more times than they get repelled. If they do that, they become the defenders and the previous owners become the attackers. A new time is set for this part of the war. If the new defenders successfully defend their new outpost, then it officially becomes theirs.
It sounds complicated, but it's not. And it's not instanced. Anyone can go to the site of the outpost war and pick a side to play with. Or you can be neutral and just watch the battle unfold.

---

 
TM Battles? I've been otu of WoW for a while and never really did a whole lot of PvP outside of battlegrounds, so I don't know what that means.
 
And the other option sounds like Wintergrasp, except that you fight to control resources instead of access to a popular instance/dungeon (Vault of Archavon ... forgive spelling on that one).

---

Before Blizzard instituted PvP as you know and maybe love now, there used to be giant skirmishes between the alliance and horde at Tarren Mill. The fields next to TM were ground zero for some of the most fun PvP I've ever been a part of. Hundreds of people would gather and duke it out for hours.

This was before BC was released.

 it's a late response but Dream of Mirror Online is free and offers something different and has good crafting appartently. Can't say anything about the PvP though.