Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

It was not that short.  It only felt that short because there was a ton of stuff to do compared to other MMOs at the time that dragged stuff out with boring repetition.  WoW filled the journy with interesting stuff to do and see rather than just filling the time with pointless grind.  When I look on my time leveling my first WoW character I have a ton of great memories.  In other MMOs all I remember is 'I camped this spawn for hours and finally got a level'.

Originally posted by Loricane

So...the general argument behind the past few threads seems to be this: (Please, correct me if I'm mistaken)

1) WoW became a massive success, with subscription numbers exceeding those of any MMO that came before it.

2) The subscription rates of new MMO's more closely resemble those of the older games in the genre, rather than WoW.

3) Because these new MMO's have not exceeded the popularity of WoW, but instead remained at the average pre-WoW level, WoW is responsible for new MMO failing and/or WoW is directly responsible for any new MMO that comes out and you happen to dislike.

Is that about right?

 

Thats what the anti-wowers are saying.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

I didn't see level 60 with my Shaman until about late March or early April in 05 and I was in beta.  WOW had the best journey by far.  That was one of the eye openers when you transitioned from EQ or DAOC.   My journey in DAOC for example  was killing 100000 trees to gain a level in my 40s.  That wasn't a journey.  It was a grind.  

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

How long did you play WoW?  How long did it take you to reach 60?  70?  80? 

I'm curious, because I've probably been playing games every bit as long as you have, and I'm casually playing a shaman, and it's taken me nearly two weeks to get him to 18.  Granted, I'm not playing every day, and when I do, it's only for a few hours at a time.  But you do realize that the leveling process is entirely up to you, right?  If someone wants to sit up for a week straight, on a diet of stimulants and coffee, so they can level to cap as fast as possible...it'd be stupid for that person to complain how quick it was. 

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

Wat are you talking about? Leveling up to L70, the first time, takes me like 3 months at least, and two more weeks from L70-80. That is a lot of gaming and I have only seen like half of the leveling zones.

@ Robsolf

I don't quite get the logic, and I can't really accept the premise. A monopoly occurs when one company owns the majority share of product supply, NOT the majority of the market. If blizzard bought out Funcom, EA, Turbine, etc, then raised sub prices on all those games to $50/month, THAT is a monopoly.

As it sits, Blizzard could raise their prices to $50/month, and likely many people would stop playing the game, move to a cheaper MMO, or leave MMO's altogether. If there was a monopoly, you'd only have the latter option.

There is still plenty of competition. There are many MMO's which are profitable. Many that are claimed to be "failing" are not at all failing. They just have to be profitable.

It's like saying a local, profitable restaurant is failing because McDonalds is so huge...

Now, if Blizzard pulled a WalMart and started lowering sub prices to starve out competition, or, as I said before, started buying these small companies out and raising sub prices, THAT would fit your assessment.

To cover your metaphor about the local vs. McD topic: allow me to reiterate that my statement was with regards to subscriptions. In a genre that is defined as massively multiplayer... absolutely a local restaurant fails when compared to McD's. There's the chance I don't fully grasp where you were going with this metaphor however.

I understand the concept of a monopoly very well, but I can see why you would have been spurred to redefine it. I use the term perhaps a little too loosely for your liking. It would appear you prefer a more literal approach. I apply the term with regards to market dominance, quite plainly. It isn't even an 800lb gorilla sitting unmentioned in the room: WoW dominates the market to such an extent that the next biggest competitor... isn't competing at all. Perhaps it would read easier as 'WoW is the undisputed dominant subscription based MMO'?

I stand by my assessment.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

Seems like the problem is you again.  =(

 I still stick by that the game lacks content not related to combat (like most boring mmo's today), which makes it a very shallow mmo to RPG-players

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

 

Wat are you talking about? Leveling up to L70, the first time, takes me like 3 months at least, and two more weeks from L70-80. That is a lot of gaming and I have only seen like half of the leveling zones.

I wish I could of made levelling last that long, I could of only played 1 day a week and still did 1-70 in under 3 months without ever really pushing myself.

You can't reason with WoW haters.  Every argument against WoW is countered.  They compare the game to McDonalds, Walmart, or Britney Spears and feel like they made some kind of point.  They call all gamers except themselves "the masses", in order to further elevate their status in their own eyes.  They can't differentiate boredom with hate.  They get bored with a mmorpg because they burn out on it, then declare it sucks, even if they played it for 5 years.  All games before WoW were fantastic, incredible games that they won't play anymore, just bring up constantly in threads looking back with the thickest rose colored glasses in existence.  There are hardcore, sandbox games coming out almost continiously, but while those games are good, "they just aren't for them".  I'm done with WoW, too.  I can't make myself play it anymore.  But the thing is, I played it for several years on and off.  It kept my interest for longer then most games, so it did it's job.  WoW isn't perfect, but it's the best all around mmorpg out there.   That's why it's so popular with casual gamers and hardcore gamers.  It's a subset of the hardcore gamers that hate it with so much passion, the Emo gamers.  They hate everything, though.

The trick to enjoying any mmorpg, is to not pour your whole reason for being into it.  Don't place all your self worth into your status in a game.  You're never going to be happy.  It's ok to not like a game.  But the intensity and passion I see poured into posts about a casual mmorpg is disturbing at times.  I've seen posts like "I hate casual games and casual gamers", or one recently that equated a "dedicated player" as someone that will play for 20 hrs straight.  That's over the top compulsive behavior.

The reason so many people respond negatively to anti-WoW posts is it's usually not just an attack on WoW but an attack on everyone that plays it.  You can say WoW sucks without following it with "and everyone that plays it sucks".  You can say all you want that the WoW's community is part of the reason you hate it, but I have found that it doesn't seem to matter what mmorpg I'm playing, much of the community are jerks.

Originally posted by otter3370

You can't reason with WoW haters.  Every argument against WoW is countered.  They compare the game to McDonalds, Walmart, or Britney Spears and feel like they made some kind of point.  They call all gamers except themselves "the masses", in order to further elevate their status in their own eyes.  They can't differentiate boredom with hate.  They get bored with a mmorpg because they burn out on it, then declare it sucks, even if they played it for 5 years.  All games before WoW were fantastic, incredible games that they won't play anymore, just bring up constantly in threads looking back with the thickest rose colored glasses in existence.  There are hardcore, sandbox games coming out almost continiously, but while those games are good, "they just aren't for them".  I'm done with WoW, too.  I can't make myself play it anymore.  But the thing is, I played it for several years on and off.  It kept my interest for longer then most games, so it did it's job.  WoW isn't perfect, but it's the best all around mmorpg out there.   That's why it's so popular with casual gamers and hardcore gamers.  It's a subset of the hardcore gamers that hate it with so much passion, the Emo gamers.  They hate everything, though.

The trick to enjoying any mmorpg, is to not pour your whole reason for being into it.  Don't place all your self worth into your status in a game.  You're never going to be happy.  It's ok to not like a game.  But the intensity and passion I see poured into posts about a casual mmorpg is disturbing at times.  I've seen posts like "I hate casual games and casual gamers", or one recently that equated a "dedicated player" as someone that will play for 20 hrs straight.  That's over the top compulsive behavior.

The reason so many people respond negatively to anti-WoW posts is it's usually not just an attack on WoW but an attack on everyone that plays it.  You can say WoW sucks without following it with "and everyone that plays it sucks".  You can say all you want that the WoW's community is part of the reason you hate it, but I have found that it doesn't seem to matter what mmorpg I'm playing, much of the community are jerks.

And why is it WoW hating simply to say the leveling was really fast for me without even being hardcore?

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

I didn't see level 60 with my Shaman until about late March or early April in 05 and I was in beta.  WOW had the best journey by far.  That was one of the eye openers when you transitioned from EQ or DAOC.   My journey in DAOC for example  was killing 100000 trees to gain a level in my 40s.  That wasn't a journey.  It was a grind.  

And doing 1000 "Kill/collect X amount of X" quests in WoW wasn't a grind?

It's in all MMO's in some form.

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

 

How long did you play WoW?  How long did it take you to reach 60?  70?  80? 

I'm curious, because I've probably been playing games every bit as long as you have, and I'm casually playing a shaman, and it's taken me nearly two weeks to get him to 18.  Granted, I'm not playing every day, and when I do, it's only for a few hours at a time.  But you do realize that the leveling process is entirely up to you, right?  If someone wants to sit up for a week straight, on a diet of stimulants and coffee, so they can level to cap as fast as possible...it'd be stupid for that person to complain how quick it was. 

I played 2 years (Just until a bit after TBC's released). So lvl 80 hadn't been in yet. I only played a few hours a day myself, but I was persistent with quests, etc when online. Not dilly dallying around..well, very little at least. I love exploration aspects too.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

 

Wat are you talking about? Leveling up to L70, the first time, takes me like 3 months at least, and two more weeks from L70-80. That is a lot of gaming and I have only seen like half of the leveling zones.

Rogue. Nuff said. =)

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

Believe it or not, many people do enjoy the journey in wow.  It was one of the major features that set it apart from others games when it released. 

 

 

Sure..but it was the shortest journey ever. Like traveling through a one stoplight town...and I wasn't even one of those players looking to be first in everything by a long shot. It was just that easy.

 

 

Seems like the problem is you again.  =(

 

You just can't help yourself can you. The comment was MY experience. Sorry if I didn't type that in and you decided to yet again assume something else.

If WoW is killing the MMOrpg genre, then why are there more MMORPG games now then back in EQ days before WoW?

WoW didn't "kill" MMORPG's.  It just made them boring and made a lot of us not want to play anymore and do things like lurk on these forums.

I played UO and I played PlanetSide.  Those were "innovative" and they made real contributions to MMOGs.

I do not consider a new title that simply changes the setting, a few rules, etc. to be "innovative."  If it's primarily PvE, centers on questing and releases expansions constantly to keep people leveling as it's hook... I'm not interested nor have I ever been.

There are so many great things they could do be doing with virtual worlds that can hold thousands of players and yet it's the same old shit.  Fantasy.  Leveling.  Gear.

Pathetic.

It made chicks get tattoos:

And the plush Murloc:

Nuff said.

Originally posted by tro44_1

If WoW is killing the MMOrpg genre, then why are there more MMORPG games now then back in EQ days before WoW?

If I had to speculate, it's because of the SUCCESS of WoW that tons of other companies took notice of the ungodly amounts of cash that can be made in the genre, hence the bunches of MMO's that keep using the same tired methods and failing. It's the companies making those games faults that their games keep failing. But, again, in speculation, it's killing the genre because everyone simply keeps sticking to "what works now" from WoW, with few trying to be creative and improve upon existing features from WoW to use, but also putting their own twist on things...just as WoW did with the EQ model.

It's not really killing it, as much a stunting it's grow for awhile.

WoW was part of a genre in MMORPG’s, high fantasy with its unique blend based on the older MMO’s. But it became genre, that’s like Fallout doing so well as a single player that every game uses the same background, the same sort of world, the same rules. Gets boring after a few years.