Originally posted by Valentina

The XP curve is going to recieve a major overhaul soon. Both quests and mob XP will be increased by a huge amount post 30.

I really hope not. All other new MMORPGs are easy-mode with people leveling to cap in a couple of weeks. Aion was one of the very few where it actually is something special to be at level cap because it takes some effort.

But I guess the whiners whined too loud and now the game is being put in easy-mode like the rest. *sigh*

The leveling curve is not meant to be 'challenging' nor is it meant to be something to sort out the losers that can't take the grind.

The leveling curve is only one thing, timesink, the longer people grind the more money they pay. Devs just have to balance the carrot and the sink, it's as easy as that... plus the fact that Korean nerds are considering teh grind as something like a 'Trial of Willpower' kind of Kung Fu mental resilience thing... I guess... or they're just nerdier than western nerds, or whatever...

M

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Valentina

The XP curve is going to recieve a major overhaul soon. Both quests and mob XP will be increased by a huge amount post 30.

I really hope not. All other new MMORPGs are easy-mode with people leveling to cap in a couple of weeks. Aion was one of the very few where it actually is something special to be at level cap because it takes some effort.

But I guess the whiners whined too loud and now the game is being put in easy-mode like the rest. *sigh*

It won't go easy-mode.

They needed to either add more quests that give valuable experience or edit the existing ones so while your leveling you won't get in some level gap were either you do repeatables or grind.

(My damn sig is stuck at that level for 3 days now -_-)

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Valentina

The XP curve is going to recieve a major overhaul soon. Both quests and mob XP will be increased by a huge amount post 30.

 

I really hope not. All other new MMORPGs are easy-mode with people leveling to cap in a couple of weeks. Aion was one of the very few where it actually is something special to be at level cap because it takes some effort.

But I guess the whiners whined too loud and now the game is being put in easy-mode like the rest. *sigh*

Actually, I wonder how grinding trashmobs has anything to do with not being 'easymode'. In WoW, you can level to 80 in like 3 weeks if you are a 4, 5 hour/day core player. Granted. But what does it take to actually get the best possible gear in game and make a difference?

Or, not so popular example, EvE Online. You don't have to grind one second in this game if you're clever. There's no uber-max-level in this game; you can either outsmart your opponents, or you can't. Now that's what I myself consider NOT easymode. Giving a monkey a toothbrush and a ballroom floor is easymode, in fact it doesn't get any easier than this...

M

Originally posted by supbro

Sorry you cant ding 50 in 2 weeks of casual play.

I think this is the bottom line right here. people are spoiled. the game hasnt been out a month (i think it ends on the 28th) and people are already bitching they arent max level yet. what has become of mmorpg players i wonder...

I see two groups of people here. one, the people who think you should be able to be 50 after those 2 weeks, ala wow, and the second group, who thinks this is great as it is, and are having fun. I predict the 1st group of people will bitch and moan and make ncsoft change things. what will happen is, the first group will get to max level faster then the second group can say 'go back to wow' and that second group will hate the changes. after max level, the first group will quit the game to the next flashy thing they see in the underbrush, and it will be up to the people that actually like Aion to endure what is now a game where each and every quest gives you a quarter of your total xp bar.

I hope not though.

Have you guys ever though about the fact that getting done with the whole leveling crap might have other motivations than 'lol too slow I wanna pwn teh game now!!11'?

Maybe people want to get rid of the leveling because they actually don't like levelling. I mean, do you like the level concept? In a PvP game? Where some random guy can kick your behind just because he is 10 levels above you. The only thing he had to do to be in this position is start the game like 2 weeks before you did.

In my experience, people tend to wear this 'teh level grind is for true hardcore gamers' because they actually enjoy the genuine advantage that comes with the easymode-grind. All you have to do to get easy kills is sit there and mash 4 buttons, while in a skill-based game, or a game that virtually starts at maxlevel, you have to actually be clever/social/organized to succeed.

M

Originally posted by Meridion

Have you guys ever though about the fact that getting done with the whole leveling crap might have other motivations than 'lol too slow I wanna pwn teh game now!!11'?

Maybe people want to get rid of the leveling because they actually don't like levelling. I mean, do you like the level concept? In a PvP game? Where some random guy can kick your behind just because he is 10 levels above you. The only thing he had to do to be in this position is start the game like 2 weeks before you did.

In my experience, people tend to wear this 'teh level grind is for true hardcore gamers' because they actually enjoy the genuine advantage that comes with the easymode-grind. All you have to do to get easy kills is sit there and mash 4 buttons, while in a skill-based game, or a game that virtually starts at maxlevel, you have to actually be clever/social/organized to succeed.

M

So what you are saying is that its perfectly reasonable for a person to pay a ticket to watch a football match, and when that person is in the stadium demand! that the teams start playing basketball instead because that person doesnt like to watch football? Didnt these people know Aion was a level based game? didnt they know the game was from korea? dont they know by now how korean games handle the leveling curve? if you dont like football, then dont pay tickets for football matches, simple. but dont ruin it for us who like it.

I think EVE is a glorified screensaver and you dont see me posting in the EVE forums bitching about how bad it is do you?

Originally posted by Meridion

The leveling curve is not meant to be 'challenging' nor is it meant to be something to sort out the losers that can't take the grind.

The leveling curve is only one thing, timesink, the longer people grind the more money they pay. Devs just have to balance the carrot and the sink, it's as easy as that... plus the fact that Korean nerds are considering teh grind as something like a 'Trial of Willpower' kind of Kung Fu mental resilience thing... I guess... or they're just nerdier than western nerds, or whatever...

M

That is like saying that the dificulty of the game is not meant to be challenging but only there as a timesink. That is nonsense. Since games were first done they needed to have some kind of dificulty to be interesting and challenging to people. Otherwise people would just get bored quickly and leave.

Nothing to do with nerdiness or whatever. Games, be it computer games or not, need to be challenging or people wont be playing them.

Originally posted by Meridion

Have you guys ever though about the fact that getting done with the whole leveling crap might have other motivations than 'lol too slow I wanna pwn teh game now!!11'?

Maybe people want to get rid of the leveling because they actually don't like levelling. I mean, do you like the level concept? In a PvP game? Where some random guy can kick your behind just because he is 10 levels above you. The only thing he had to do to be in this position is start the game like 2 weeks before you did.

In my experience, people tend to wear this 'teh level grind is for true hardcore gamers' because they actually enjoy the genuine advantage that comes with the easymode-grind. All you have to do to get easy kills is sit there and mash 4 buttons, while in a skill-based game, or a game that virtually starts at maxlevel, you have to actually be clever/social/organized to succeed.

M

More rubbish. I have played RPG games since I was a child and all of them had some kind of development. You finish quests, deeds or whatever and you gained some benefit. That is how RPGs have always been.

If you dont like that then maybe RPGs are not for you? You sound like you are more interested in a traditional FPS game where you are just thrown into the action. That is fine, but dont expect RPGs to be the same. Developing your character has always been an integral part of RPGs and I hope will always be.

Now the problem of the high levels vs the lower levels will always exist but that does not mean that all fights are like that. There are fighting among higher levels as well (probably more so since it is completely voluntary if you want to enter the Abyss or not). And in those fights you need to be "clever/social/organized to succeed".

Funny though that you are playing Eve, which has probably the largest difference between people with different ships, modules and skills than any other game. It takes MONTHS to be competetive in Eve and many corps have a minimum reqs. for how many SPs you got before you can be invited.

Originally posted by zantax

You know back in the day, god that makes me sound old but, back in the day I used to play Asheron's Call, and from release day on there was one goal on my mind and that was to hit level 126.  I listened to the message boreds and it took 1 guy almost a year of constant playing to finally get to max level.  The only reason he got there was because he had exploited the vassel/monarch system, well not an exploite he just found a way to maximize what he was doing.  I remember the devs saying the exp curve goes up such that the total experiance you attained by 125 is the same amount you now need to get to 126, so you have to double your experiance to go up to 126.  Now thinking logically if it took you 1 year to get to 125 it should take you 1 year to get to 126 playing the same amount.

The thing with AC is sometimes gaining experiance to raise a skill was boreing but the need to get those extra 3 points in sword or life magic was important enough to make you push through it, or any of the other skills in the game.  The point being if getting to max level is your goal then games should be a grind, but if enjoying the journey, or all the game has to offer so that you get the best bang for your buck then grinds are masked with a purpose that go by quickly.  Everyone has a compulsion to get to max level in every MMO, most are not taking the time to enjoy what games have to offer.

In today's Theme park games that lead you from ride to ride with a little golden "!" or "?" we have lost the want to just play the full game IMO of course.  True Open world/universe MMO's seem to be a dieing breed but I wish they would come back, todays MMO's are nothing but FPS games with a minor achievment system implemented.  The immersion factor is gone, as for Aion I don't mind it but again it hasn't given me that feeling of a great community, or world that I am making a difference in or that I can truely explore.  Maybe I will go back to COD4 at least then I don't waste my time leveling up, I just play my 3 hours and swear at people...LOL

 

I agree.  If Aion had more 'sandbox' type content, I could understand the people who say don't rush to endgame, slow down, enjoy the ride - but these themepark MMOs seem all about chasing the carrot from ride to ride.  Rushing to endgame is what it's all about.  That's the way all the content is designed, to point the character in that direction.  So, that's how people are going to play it.

And the PvP, of course, but that's largely an endgame thing - or it certainly will be, as more people get there.  Just another part of the carrot on the string system, to help encourage people to buckle down and grind, in a game that isn't really about giving players much to do that isn't a big neon arrow pointing to 50.

It's an issue common to MMOs, though.  I don't agree with people who say Aion is any worse than most of the competition for it, and I think whether the grind is too fast or too slow is really besides the point.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Meridion

Have you guys ever though about the fact that getting done with the whole leveling crap might have other motivations than 'lol too slow I wanna pwn teh game now!!11'?

Maybe people want to get rid of the leveling because they actually don't like levelling. I mean, do you like the level concept? In a PvP game? Where some random guy can kick your behind just because he is 10 levels above you. The only thing he had to do to be in this position is start the game like 2 weeks before you did.

In my experience, people tend to wear this 'teh level grind is for true hardcore gamers' because they actually enjoy the genuine advantage that comes with the easymode-grind. All you have to do to get easy kills is sit there and mash 4 buttons, while in a skill-based game, or a game that virtually starts at maxlevel, you have to actually be clever/social/organized to succeed.

M

 

More rubbish. I have played RPG games since I was a child and all of them had some kind of development. You finish quests, deeds or whatever and you gained some benefit. That is how RPGs have always been.

If you dont like that then maybe RPGs are not for you? You sound like you are more interested in a traditional FPS game where you are just thrown into the action. That is fine, but dont expect RPGs to be the same. Developing your character has always been an integral part of RPGs and I hope will always be.

Now the problem of the high levels vs the lower levels will always exist but that does not mean that all fights are like that. There are fighting among higher levels as well (probably more so since it is completely voluntary if you want to enter the Abyss or not). And in those fights you need to be "clever/social/organized to succeed".

Funny though that you are playing Eve, which has probably the largest difference between people with different ships, modules and skills than any other game. It takes MONTHS to be competetive in Eve and many corps have a minimum reqs. for how many SPs you got before you can be invited.

Now let's not start a fight in the 'I've been playing RPGs since...' arena, k? Let's just leave it at ' We know what we're talking about'... And god do I NOT want to glorify EvE, it has flaws and you named some of them already.

We all agree that development in an MMORPG is great and one of the major pillars of any RPG.

But: As important as this is, especially in a PvP centered game, you should gain advantages through development, not guaranteed win-situations. A very positive example here - and I KNOW this game has major flaws - is Warhammer Online. You can gain equipment through PvP, you can gain EP/RP through PvP, but a situation where you face a practically undefeatable enemy is very, very rare.

Now I'm distinctly NOT talking about PvE. In a PvE game leveling can be great fun. But for a fun PvE experience people need actual content that let's them level (fun dungeons, crafting, quests, events). A great example there is LotRO. This game has a big sign above it's head "PvE game, twinkers paradise, welcome" and is an example of how a PvE centered game can make leveling fun.

So the central flaw for a game like Aion is - in my book: Letting people level _for_ PvP through PvE while not providing enough PvE-content.

I KNOW this whole grind thing works in Asia; But I'm from stone-old Europe, so I have hard times understanding the american soul, let alone the asian :P

M

Originally posted by Meridion

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Meridion

Have you guys ever though about the fact that getting done with the whole leveling crap might have other motivations than 'lol too slow I wanna pwn teh game now!!11'?

Maybe people want to get rid of the leveling because they actually don't like levelling. I mean, do you like the level concept? In a PvP game? Where some random guy can kick your behind just because he is 10 levels above you. The only thing he had to do to be in this position is start the game like 2 weeks before you did.

In my experience, people tend to wear this 'teh level grind is for true hardcore gamers' because they actually enjoy the genuine advantage that comes with the easymode-grind. All you have to do to get easy kills is sit there and mash 4 buttons, while in a skill-based game, or a game that virtually starts at maxlevel, you have to actually be clever/social/organized to succeed.

M

 

More rubbish. I have played RPG games since I was a child and all of them had some kind of development. You finish quests, deeds or whatever and you gained some benefit. That is how RPGs have always been.

If you dont like that then maybe RPGs are not for you? You sound like you are more interested in a traditional FPS game where you are just thrown into the action. That is fine, but dont expect RPGs to be the same. Developing your character has always been an integral part of RPGs and I hope will always be.

Now the problem of the high levels vs the lower levels will always exist but that does not mean that all fights are like that. There are fighting among higher levels as well (probably more so since it is completely voluntary if you want to enter the Abyss or not). And in those fights you need to be "clever/social/organized to succeed".

Funny though that you are playing Eve, which has probably the largest difference between people with different ships, modules and skills than any other game. It takes MONTHS to be competetive in Eve and many corps have a minimum reqs. for how many SPs you got before you can be invited.

 

Now let's not start a fight in the 'I've been playing RPGs since...' arena, k? Let's just leave it at ' We know what we're talking about'... And god do I NOT want to glorify EvE, it has flaws and you named some of them already.

We all agree that development in an MMORPG is great and one of the major pillars of any RPG.

But: As important as this is, especially in a PvP centered game, you should gain advantages through development, not guaranteed win-situations. A very positive example here - and I KNOW this game has major flaws - is Warhammer Online. You can gain equipment through PvP, you can gain EP/RP through PvP, but a situation where you face a practically undefeatable enemy is very, very rare.

Now I'm distinctly NOT talking about PvE. In a PvE game leveling can be great fun. But for a fun PvE experience people need actual content that let's them level (fun dungeons, crafting, quests, events). A great example there is LotRO. This game has a big sign above it's head "PvE game, twinkers paradise, welcome" and is an example of how a PvE centered game can make leveling fun.

So the central flaw for a game like Aion is - in my book: Letting people level _for_ PvP through PvE while not providing enough PvE-content.

I KNOW this whole grind thing works in Asia; But I'm from stone-old Europe, so I have hard times understanding the american soul, let alone the asian :P

M 

Hey you started with that "Grinding is for nerds" attitude but sure I will dial back a bit.

But reading from this post seems to tell me that your beef is not with grinding per se but rather than levels plays such a huge role in the outcome of a PvP battle and with that I agree. Levels should give you some advantage but in this game it seems that the difference is HUGE and that I agree is a bad thing.

However I have no problem with PvE making you stronger in PvP, that is the classic PvPvE type of a game which Aion seems to be like. So in other words: Being better in PvP gives you access to more and better PvE which allows you to become stronger in PvP. I dont see a problem with that. If that wasnt the case then the PvP would be meaningless, you would fight over an area in Abyss but winning it would give no benefit so what would be the point?

Pointless PvP is what FPS games are for...

As for lack of PvE content. I came straight from Champions Online and compared with that game this game has ALOT more PvE (and PvP content). If you mean PvE content without the risk of being killed in PvP then I dont agree. Winning in PvP gives you the privilege to access better PvE. That is the whole point of PvPvE games.

This is very interesting. Max level is certainly where everyone wants to be but i also think it should be a reward.

I can just recall a game called FFXi where you would ding 75 after 6 months of gameplay for the hardcore. THIS game was a grind and not just a solo grind, but a group grind since it was impossible for let's say, a white mage to actually solo a single mob 10 levels lower than him. Getting to 75 was very rewarding back in the days.

If seeing the chart turns you off, i think you need to find something else to do in MMOs than gaining levels by fighting monsters alone, but this is just my opinion.

I also think that FFXi is the best MMO i've ever played (even tho i never got to 75)...

I'm sorry but you all look way to much into leveling then I do...I'm taking my time playing Aion and loving it!! What do I care how long it takes me to get to max level? The sooner I get there, the sooner I get bored and quit.

Anyways....Aion's a grind? Go play something else and stop whining, cause most of us enjoying the game could care less!    :-)

Typical Korean game curve.  They want you to suffer to get to end game (or bot).

Originally posted by avalon1000

Typical Korean game curve.  They want you to suffer to get to end game (or bot).

You don't know much about the game, do you?

There is nothing wrong about the levelling curve. In fact, I think it's a tad faster than I expected it to be. Definitely nothing like the previous generation of games.

What' wrong (for some people) is that the ratio of experienced gained between quests and mob killing is not balanced the way they prefer it. Most modern day MMO players are accustomed to mobs giving a token exp, while the majority comes from quest completion. In Aion the quest experience gain starts on equal foot with mob killing, but somewhere in the early 30s mob killing becomes a lot more productive than quest delivery. Thus the complaints from all the people who are accustomed to grind quests, instead of grinding mobs.

Personally, I don't have an issue with either method of gaining experience. I'm completing most quests just for the story (been doing quests from whole areas in LOTRO, despite being gray) and killing mobs for the experience and the drops. So far it's been an interesting ride, but it remains to be seen if the interest will remain high in the coming months.

What I would definitely like to see is:

• Active hunting of bots & botters. Also some confirmation that there are positive strides done on the issue. The situation is not bad yet, but it is progressively getting worse.
• More PvE content, in terms of zones. Not necessarily more quests, just alternative grounds to explore and fight.

Originally posted by Mishtal

So i'm on my way to level 29 right now and i took a bit of time to check out the xp level requirements for the game... then i started looking at these numbers and it seemed pretty crazy past level 30... 

I was bored at work so i made a simple chart... i'm not looking forward to 35+... 

 

 

LOL !! i wont ever touch this game. How stupid is this ? Grind until death ? NCSoft made CoX and i love it but AION seems crappy.

35+ must be the moment when many say "No thnx, it was nice but i am done....."