Originally posted by augustgrace

Try out Fallen Earth.  The closest game I've found, to the old UO experience.  Very good game.

I don't think Fallen Earth is exactly what he is looking for. He said:

"The crafting side of the game should be immersive, I.E. not a 'buy ingredients from vendor, click 'Make all', wait for 2 minutes' style."

Which describes Fallen Earth crafting almost exactly. Its very similar to EvE (which he said he didn't like) in that you just create a queue of items to craft and then log out while the game does the work. Seems like the kind of thing he is trying to avoid.

Plus he asked to be able to create buildings, which is not possible at all in Fallen Earth.

http://www.atitd.com/

a tale in the dessert (IV) a game set in ancient egypt and the game is ALL about crafting/construction, researching, politics and other stuff like farming, breeding,etc. surprised no one mentioned this.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Sikgamer

 

Plus the community really got on my nerves. I don't know whether this was a bad experience alone on my part, but the first corporation (guild) I joined was full of your typical nerd stereotypes. Constantly spewing bad memes and insults on Vent, and when you're debating about something they read the first few words and start trolling over it. It was pathetic, although they were good at the game they were just assholes.

 

No, it wasn't just you. EvE and virtually all other open PvP games suffer from serious community issues. My experience with EvE was much like yours. I enjoyed it for a bit when I was playing solo and doing PvE content. But the PvE gets old very fast in that game since its just the same limited types of missions over and over. When I tried to get more involved in the game than that I found that most players either hide out in giant alliances to avoid griefers or become griefers themselves. Neither really makes for a fluid and trustworthy community so I moved on from that game.

As for Darkfall, it suffered the exact same fate as another open PvP game which was almost identical in design: Shadowbane. I suspect that Mortal Online will be the next game to continue in this tradition of failed PvP based games.

You may have heard that Darkfall is getting "better" now. This has about as much truth to it as the claim that AoC is "better" now. A few bug fixes and some clever PR does not fix a game which was flawed at its very core. Here is a great review of Darkfall which was written recently by a guy who played since beta and up until the review was posted. He says that the game still suffers from many of the same problems it always did with hackers, botters and exploiters still holding a massive advantage over everyone else and that there has been nothing done about this by the developers. This was a guy who was probably one of the biggest Darkfall fanboys there was during development and after release, but if even he can admit the problems the game has then it is clearly the truth.

The inherent problem with this game design is what I like to call the "If you build it they will come" syndrome. When you build a PvP based game where a major part of the game is killing other players and stealing/destroying everything they have, you attract players for whom the idea of killing people and stealing/destroying their stuff is attractive. That of course means assholes. You may attract other players as well but the assholes will outnumber them and eventually dirve them off leaving just the assholes to play the game by themselves. And a community full of assholes can only grief, back stab, lie to and cheat one another for so long before even they get tired of it and start looking for the next big thing, which is why you see so many of these people who claim to enjoy open PvP games constantly declaring how there is nothing good out right now and waiting for the next one. First they all waited for Shadowbane and when that game was crap they moved on to waiting for Darkfall. Now that game is crap and they are all waiting for Mortal Online. Mortal Online will meet the same fate and some other upstart developer with no clue how to run a game will announce a PvP based MMO so all the former MO players will go wait for that game. This type of game design will NEVER work. It will fail every time because the core concept behind a game like this is flawed.

Both you and PhelimReagh have very valid points... I was pretty short sighted in asking for open PvP in a sandbox especially since your 'If you build it they will come' theory plays out on almost every game I've seen. It's a shame that, going by this theory, it also means there are few people who have an interest in player building, crafting and community in an MMO. Maybe I'm just a carebear as the typical Darkfall griefer would say.

Anyway right now I'm trying Ryzom, I've heard a lot about it recently and the innovative system seems pretty good. Everything has a quality stat and lots of other stats determining how the final item ends up. I haven't played it for that long (I'm still doing the tutorial) and it seems very complex. The only thing that seems bad about it is the lack of players. So far in about an hour playing I've only seen 1 other player. I could be missing something but, that's my observation currently.

I'm not going to try Fallen Earth. One because it doesn't fit what I asked in OP at all, two I was in both the closed and open beta for the game, and the game was going at a fantastic pace. So much so, that the closed beta experience was almost exactly the same as the retail version, bar a few random glitches you'd encounter. It even still has the same UI and weapons, all they've really done since closed and open beta is squash bugs and balance some guns.

Fallen Earth claims to have an open sandbox style, but I think they're just milking those words. For one, they claim there are no classes. While FE has no classes, it has a horribly restricted SP system which pretty much restricts you to a 'Class' which will always consist of either Rifles, Pistols or Melee, with varying stats in health, stamina etc. Pretty much everyone goes Rifle and the support skills aren't that useful. It's like taking out classes and leaving you to pick something from what remains.

The crafting is the same as in any mainstream MMO, I.E. you go to a vendor or harvest materials (which has no restrictions so anyone can be a top crafter if they keep a skill maxed), then click a Craft button and wait. For a long time with no active input. No innovation, no crafting customisation, no being able to build structures. While they say it may be added in a later patch, promises like that usually end up not happening. FE is just a post-apoc version of your average mainstream MMO in my opinion.

---

Originally posted by Sikgamer
EvE in general was a fun game, very immersive, but the slow progression and such made it boring. I probably spent more of my time ogling at weapons an ships I couldn't use or afford, instead of grinding missions.
Plus the community really got on my nerves. I don't know whether this was a bad experience alone on my part, but the first corporation (guild) I joined was full of your typical nerd stereotypes. Constantly spewing bad memes and insults on Vent, and when you're debating about something they read the first few words and start trolling over it. It was pathetic, although they were good at the game they were just assholes.
That pushed me to quit, because I assumed the entire community was this immature, and reviews I had read and 'promotion' videos from corps like GoonSwarm were the last nail in the coffin. Watching a Youtube video of a corp leader airhumping another overweight corp leader while he isn't looking is funny at best, patheticly immature at worst.

---

Slow progresion? What do you mean?

Well, there is always good and bad parts of the community wherever you go.
May I ask you how much time you spent to find a corp and how did you find them?

Oh yeah, Goonswarm... :)
They are jerks but EVE is accomodating all kind of players, Without Goons the game wouldn't be what is is. You like it or not, there are always two sides of the coin.

I think you should be patient with MO.  The crafting holds great potential.

 Second Life.

Also, keep in mind that I don't think the technology is quite there yet to be able to have really good player-customizable worlds yet in a standard Fantasy RPG.

It's one thing to have the physical environment pre-loaded to your machine and then render it from your hard drive as you play. But to stream that environment in from the server on the fly as you move around in the environment is infinitely more resource intensive and complex.

Technologically speaking, I think we're probably years away from this in an MMORPG environment.

Originally posted by colddog

 Second Life.

While I would never consider Second Life a game it does have the best crafting I would say. Everything is player made, and that can lead to some amazing things, and also soom really bad things. It is a lot like a 3D interpretation of the internet and social networking sites. So you have the good things such as being able to chat to many people easily, along with the bad things such as large amounts of sex and porn.

SL would also allow for great RP possibilities by allowing people to create the world they want to RP in and unlimited possibilities for character creation. Still have to say again that it isn't a game so much as a big sandbox to play in.

I have played Wurm...loved it but hated the pay to skill cap increase.

I have the perfect game for you its called "Roma Victor", I just started playing it last few days...its been around a while but there is a new update supposed to be coming out (you tube roma victor 2, youll see it). so its only like 10 pounds or 16usd i believe  if you buy, now rumor is after update will be more...but its 1 time fee unless you want depo for money in-game. but its free to play and no skill penalties. :)

Any how read up on it its a great game that needs more population Romans Vs. Barbarians! put my name "Zaemon" as referral if you try it.

hate to say it m8, but what you are looking for is what i look for too from time to time, and. . . well  :(

my suggestion is to take a look at the game forums first and see if there is a free trial.  i've already descided never to try out a game unless it has a free trial.  and i wished i stuck to that when i bought RV(Roma Victor)  but i already said what i wanted too about that game on it's mmorpg forums.  lets get down to what your lookin for, shall we :)

I'm looking for an MMO where you can build and craft a massive variety of items and buildings, with a friendly community and multiple player-made 'villages' or 'forts' etc.  take a look at http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/   it's gots its pros and cons.  but it's free and you may like it.  if your interested also take a look at the wiki havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/Axehilt%27s_Quick-Start_Guide 

PvE and PvP aren't so important but preferably an open PvP style (where you can kill and be killed anywhere). Please don't suggest a cuddly wuddly Korean anime game...  i believe that's been discussed already :)

The crafting side of the game should be immersive, I.E. not a 'buy ingredients from vendor, click 'Make all', wait for 2 minutes' style. Similar to Wurm Online's style of crafting, where you have many tools and you can use (or build your own) workshops to make items, with quality ratings etc.

As for building, again similar to Wurm Online where you can make buildings almost anywhere and using tools and materials, instead of 'go to instanced place, buy house, place some useless objects in predefined places'.  well this can be a bit of a doosey.  u might want to take a look at everquest 2(that is you can stomach SOE) the crafting is in demand and you can find recipes and such through monsters and the auction house(player sold stuff)  but i don't think it's gonna be as detailed as you want.  though you can craft a Heck of a lot of stuff, heck most of the stuff in the guild complexes i believe is crafter by players(though you gotta join a guild)  check this out and see.  http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Tradeskilling
 

srry i don't have much more for ya m8.  hope this helps.

Originally posted by joojoo1975

hate to say it m8, but what you are looking for is what i look for too from time to time, and. . . well  :(

 

my suggestion is to take a look at the game forums first and see if there is a free trial.  i've already descided never to try out a game unless it has a free trial.  and i wished i stuck to that when i bought RV(Roma Victor)  but i already said what i wanted too about that game on it's mmorpg forums.  lets get down to what your lookin for, shall we :)

I'm looking for an MMO where you can build and craft a massive variety of items and buildings, with a friendly community and multiple player-made 'villages' or 'forts' etc.  take a look at http://www.havenandhearth.com/portal/   it's gots its pros and cons.  but it's free and you may like it.  if your interested also take a look at the wiki havenandhearth.wikia.com/wiki/Axehilt%27s_Quick-Start_Guide 

PvE and PvP aren't so important but preferably an open PvP style (where you can kill and be killed anywhere). Please don't suggest a cuddly wuddly Korean anime game...  i believe that's been discussed already :)

The crafting side of the game should be immersive, I.E. not a 'buy ingredients from vendor, click 'Make all', wait for 2 minutes' style. Similar to Wurm Online's style of crafting, where you have many tools and you can use (or build your own) workshops to make items, with quality ratings etc.

As for building, again similar to Wurm Online where you can make buildings almost anywhere and using tools and materials, instead of 'go to instanced place, buy house, place some useless objects in predefined places'.  well this can be a bit of a doosey.  u might want to take a look at everquest 2(that is you can stomach SOE) the crafting is in demand and you can find recipes and such through monsters and the auction house(player sold stuff)  but i don't think it's gonna be as detailed as you want.  though you can craft a Heck of a lot of stuff, heck most of the stuff in the guild complexes i believe is crafter by players(though you gotta join a guild)  check this out and see.  http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Tradeskilling
 

srry i don't have much more for ya m8.  hope this helps.

 

 

I think haven and hearth is really awesome, but be prepared to not see anyone for a while, unless you make friends with somebody via the forums. Also, it is not forgiving to new players, be prepared to get very frustrated once in a while. My biggest issue was finding flax to make practically ANYTHING. It was literally a game breaker for me and I couldnt get find anyone to trade with for it. Bones for a saw may be an issue as well since its difficult to kill anything in the beginning, but you need a saw for boards. Just throwing it out there. Haven and Hearth IS really awesome though, don't look at this as bashing, more of a heads up.

You should definitely check out this game .... next week they patch in the full crafting system. Already today it's very dynamic ... but soon ... even more ...

www.youtube.com/watch 

Originally posted by Airwren

Originally posted by Sikgamer

First off, I've already tried games such as EvE Online, Wurm Online, LOTRO and Runescape which have these features, so please don't recommend these.

 

I'm looking for an MMO where you can build and craft a massive variety of items and buildings, with a friendly community and multiple player-made 'villages' or 'forts' etc.

PvE and PvP aren't so important but preferably an open PvP style (where you can kill and be killed anywhere). Please don't suggest a cuddly wuddly Korean anime game...

I've looked at Darkfall and MO, and they both pushed me away because of their terrible failures at release. (Yes MO had a big problem at release, leading to US people within the first 5 minutes of the shop opening getting a pre-order and beta, while the rest were left with a bugged shop being unable to buy even the DD version). Apparently Darkfall has improved so if you can persuade me that the community is mature and the crafting/building is great, go for it.

I don't care if the game is pay to play or free, as long as it's worth the price (I'm not paying $20 a month for a game, that's just dumb). I also don't care about the size of the community as long as there are more than 50 people actually playing.

The crafting side of the game should be immersive, I.E. not a 'buy ingredients from vendor, click 'Make all', wait for 2 minutes' style. Similar to Wurm Online's style of crafting, where you have many tools and you can use (or build your own) workshops to make items, with quality ratings etc.

As for building, again similar to Wurm Online where you can make buildings almost anywhere and using tools and materials, instead of 'go to instanced place, buy house, place some useless objects in predefined places'.

If Wurm Online wasn't so slow, deserted and had better graphics, I would be playing that.

I know this thread is probably pointless seeing as there are so few sandboxes out there, but I'm sure someone's bound to find an awesome niche MMO.

 

tl;dr: Go back and read the whole thing :)

The game you're looking for was Star Wars Galaxies, pre-cu.  The game you want doesn't exist.
 

Actually, you're partly wrong, it's being reborn. But I'll leave you to research that on your own. ;)

 Well, there's always AfterWorld, as well.