MMORPG.com World of Warcraft Correspondent Siji Ibikunle wrties this look at the evolution of the raiding system in Blizzard's hit game.

No matter what you think about World of Warcraft, few can deny that it is an immersive MMO experience that manages to cover the many aspects of the genre with a level of polish that one would be hard pressed to find elsewhere in one package. Whether you are into PVE, PVP, or RP, you can find it all in WoW at a level that few games are capable of reaching (although, some RPers would adamantly argue that the lack of a housing system is one of the great pitfalls of the game that is yet to be rectified). However, my favorite aspect of the game is PVE; and, further still, raiding. There is nothing like getting together with 9 or 24 guildies - or maybe even a PUG if you are desperate or not willing to be tied down - and downing the great, big baddies that the game has to offer.

Read The Evolution of Raiding.

Good article.

I am not a WoW player but have tried it a few times now. I even went so far as to buy the game and had a sub for a full 2 months.

I want to like WoW. I really do. All I read about it, the size of the community, the story lines, all the raids. It really seems like a great game to me.

In truth what keeps making me turn my lip up is the graphics. I get it, they wanted the game to be accessable to a very large market and Blizzard gets big points for hitting the proverbial nail squarely on the head for that one. But I have a pretty decent computer and after playing games like DDO/ CoX/ Champions the graphics in WoW are so crappy I just don't want to play it. I guess it's not as important to most as it is to me but I like really cool immersive graphics with a feel of realism.

WoW sure does seem to have alot going on all the time, and after reading this article about raids it makes me want to give it another shot, and try to look past the crappy graphics.

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Good article.

I enjoyed the read too.

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Good article.

 

I am not a WoW player but have tried it a few times now. I even went so far as to buy the game and had a sub for a full 2 months.

I want to like WoW. I really do. All I read about it, the size of the community, the story lines, all the raids. It really seems like a great game to me.

In truth what keeps making me turn my lip up is the graphics. I get it, they wanted the game to be accessable to a very large market and Blizzard gets big points for hitting the proverbial nail squarely on the head for that one. But I have a pretty decent computer and after playing games like DDO/ CoX/ Champions the graphics in WoW are so crappy I just don't want to play it. I guess it's not as important to most as it is to me but I like really cool immersive graphics with a feel of realism.

WoW sure does seem to have alot going on all the time, and after reading this article about raids it makes me want to give it another shot, and try to look past the crappy graphics.

You don't get it. WoW is supposed to look like the Warcraft games. Which it does very well.

Nuke this game already.  Yes it was fun years ago, they did a great job both in quality and success with the game but it's OLD.... OLD!  Stop milking the dead cow and use some of that furtune you made off us and release the next gig blizzard.  I still can't believe we have to wait another year for the the first major game release from this developer since wow launched.  God only knows when they'll give us a new mmo.  2020 by my calculations.  It's ridiculas.  I never thought I'd say this but thank god there is finally a decent alternative to wow, aion.  Whether you like the game or not many former wow heads are finding a home there.  I say migrate and let our subs speak for themselves.  Blizzard needs to fork out a new game or find themselves new blood.

it was a great game that entertained me for years but it doesnt give me what I need in a mmo anymore. No matter who you are you cant say its a bad game. The problem is a lot of learned and loved it but they have moved on miss the game for what it once was to them. All their memories of the game are all but gone and replaced with leveling, grinding and raiding (the bad way). I loved raiding at first but then when you find your self raiding 25 hours a week and they are all rince and repeat raids you get burned out. I will miss the memories of the game I once loved. Hopefully I will find a game that scratches my mmo itch like wow once did.

Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate it. Also, before anyone points them out, I have spotted two typos. I said that I started playing during the "second expansion, The Burning Crusade", which is actually the first expansion. Also later in the article, I threw in a rogue "is", the sentence starts something like "It is was". So sorry for the typos if they bothered anybody.

Now, @Babylon9000: Blizzard realizes that a lot of people don't like the fact that they make their graphics accommodate people who aren't willing to shell out a ton of cash for a fancy computer. They have taken steps to alleviate those issues so as to not alienate those who would appreciate better graphics. They have updated the shadows in the game to follow real world physics for shadows, they have included an option to increase the textures and polygon count for player character models, updated cat and bear form for druids and are in the process of updating the other forms,  added options to increase spell detail, and in the next expansion they will change to water to look absolutely awesome. If you want to see some pictures as to what is to come, the you should stop by the Blizzard website and check out the Cataclysm page, it looks great. Also, when you played the game, did you ever get into Outland, or just stay in the old world? The graphics in Outland are better than those in the old world, and the graphics in Northrend are better than those in Outland, and when Cataclysm comes out, they are going to revamp the old world so the graphics there will be up to par with anything that is currently available on the market, if you so choose.

I hope that has dispelled any doubts that you may have about the graphics in the game, because they truly are improving as the months and years go by.

@Greymann: WoW is far from dead. They have barely touched upon the lore available in the Warcraft franchise and they still have at least 4 expansion packs worth of content available to make. And like I said to Babylon9000, they are continually updating the graphics. Also, if you ask any raider from either end of the spectrum, they would say that the raids are at a point where they are getting to be challenging for those who want it and accessible for those who don't. Also, in terms of game balance, they are closer to parity between the classes in terms of PvE than they have even been at any other point in the game, and they continue to work towards closing the gap in PvP. The game is constantly improving, and if you would try to take an impartial, fresh, and nonjudgmental view towards it, you would see that. Of course, if you are just here to advertise Aion, which appears to be a more than decent game, then please continue.

Originally posted by shayneforu

it was a great game that entertained me for years but it doesnt give me what I need in a mmo anymore. No matter who you are you cant say its a bad game. The problem is a lot of learned and loved it but they have moved on miss the game for what it once was to them. All their memories of the game are all but gone and replaced with leveling, grinding and raiding (the bad way). I loved raiding at first but then when you find your self raiding 25 hours a week and they are all rince and repeat raids you get burned out. I will miss the memories of the game I once loved. Hopefully I will find a game that scratches my mmo itch like wow once did.

Yea, it is easy to look at a game after playing it for years and say, "man, it's just not what it used to be," because you have played it for so long. But out of all the people I've seen who have stuck with this game from the beginning the game is better than when it first started. There are less bugs, no more laggy 40 man raids with half of the people either AFK or being carried, and when was the last time you heard of shadow priests or boomkins being in a 40 man raid in Vanilla WoW, or a ret paladin in TBC? It didn't happen, but now you can bring almost any DPS spec to a raid and expect a decent performance from them as long as the player knows their class.

A lot of the lost greatness in a game can be the result of nostalgia and the almost inevitable jadedness that comes with time. I know that I can't pick up one of the new Pokemon games and enjoy as much as I did Pokemon Red when I was 9 or 10, because then it was new, and I was young, and it just loses that feeling of novelty over the years, even if the new games are better.

what turned me off was grinding to max level, grinding for all the gear I could get from each dungeon so I could do the next dungeon and before that grind was over they would release new levels and new builds, I guess I just hate doing the same dungeon for months and months just to de it with the next patch. I wanted more content but not more levels basically

Originally posted by sijmister

Also, if you ask any raider from either end of the spectrum, they would say that the raids are at a point where they are getting to be challenging for those who want it and accessible for those who don't.

I disagree here. They are becoming more and more accessible but far from challenging. I think complicated is a better description for WoW raiding these days. If you can learn where to stand or not to stand, when to run left/right, when its safe to cast and when its not, you can easily defeat any WoW encounter on heroic mode. Gone are the days when you had to be exceptionally skilled in your class. We no longer see wipes because a player used the wrong ability or a healer had to pick who to heal and who to let die because they just couldnt keep up with healing everyone...now its about wiping because some random generated spike comes out of the ground or someone hasnt spent enough time rehearsing running back and forth between the waves of acid. Its all well and good that Blizzard wants everyone to be able to access content, but it would be nice if they brought back the aspects that actually made raiding challenging, not complicated, at least for the heroic versions.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by sijmister

Also, if you ask any raider from either end of the spectrum, they would say that the raids are at a point where they are getting to be challenging for those who want it and accessible for those who don't.

I disagree here. They are becoming more and more accessible but far from challenging. I think complicated is a better description for WoW raiding these days. If you can learn where to stand or not to stand, when to run left/right, when its safe to cast and when its not, you can easily defeat any WoW encounter on heroic mode. Gone are the days when you had to be exceptionally skilled in your class. We no longer see wipes because a player used the wrong ability or a healer had to pick who to heal and who to let die because they just couldnt keep up with healing everyone...now its about wiping because some random generated spike comes out of the ground or someone hasnt spent enough time rehearsing running back and forth between the waves of acid. Its all well and good that Blizzard wants everyone to be able to access content, but it would be nice if they brought back the aspects that actually made raiding challenging, not complicated, at least for the heroic versions.

Amen

Originally posted by dterry

Originally posted by Babylon9000

Good article.

 

I am not a WoW player but have tried it a few times now. I even went so far as to buy the game and had a sub for a full 2 months.

I want to like WoW. I really do. All I read about it, the size of the community, the story lines, all the raids. It really seems like a great game to me.

In truth what keeps making me turn my lip up is the graphics. I get it, they wanted the game to be accessable to a very large market and Blizzard gets big points for hitting the proverbial nail squarely on the head for that one. But I have a pretty decent computer and after playing games like DDO/ CoX/ Champions the graphics in WoW are so crappy I just don't want to play it. I guess it's not as important to most as it is to me but I like really cool immersive graphics with a feel of realism.

WoW sure does seem to have alot going on all the time, and after reading this article about raids it makes me want to give it another shot, and try to look past the crappy graphics.

You don't get it. WoW is supposed to look like the Warcraft games. Which it does very well.

Your right I didn't get it.
 

Still don't.... I still think the graphics are crappy.

Good game and all, lots of content but not too pretty.

Originally posted by shayneforu

what turned me off was grinding to max level, grinding for all the gear I could get from each dungeon so I could do the next dungeon and before that grind was over they would release new levels and new builds, I guess I just hate doing the same dungeon for months and months just to de it with the next patch. I wanted more content but not more levels basically

It is now easier than ever to level and gear up a character. I can level a character from 1-80 in a matter of about 3 weeks, averaging about 2 hours per level or so, because leveling is so fast now. Plus, with the badge system, it is easy to upgrade your gear. And I find that when I check out the characters of a lot of the people who complain that the game is to easy, they haven't even beaten half of the bosses that are available in that tier of content. So, to those people I say, go kill the bosses before you complain about them.

Originally posted by sijmister

Originally posted by shayneforu

what turned me off was grinding to max level, grinding for all the gear I could get from each dungeon so I could do the next dungeon and before that grind was over they would release new levels and new builds, I guess I just hate doing the same dungeon for months and months just to de it with the next patch. I wanted more content but not more levels basically

 

It is now easier than ever to level and gear up a character. I can level a character from 1-80 in a matter of about 3 weeks, averaging about 2 hours per level or so, because leveling is so fast now. Plus, with the badge system, it is easy to upgrade your gear. And I find that when I check out the characters of a lot of the people who complain that the game is to easy, they haven't even beaten half of the bosses that are available in that tier of content. So, to those people I say, go kill the bosses before you complain about them.

I've made  5 level 70s and 3 level 80s, that grind just gets old and I've been there since release and I know how much easier the leveling has gotten but if they want to make the leveling so easy each expansion why not just not add levels and add content? AQ style new skills perhaps, if you want the new skills or talent points its a earn it doing something other then grinding out levels. That way when you add an expansion you dont force everyone to dump all that gear they worked to get. For the longest time I was keeping my memorable weapons and armor I had gotten in my bank because each piece had a fun story or memory attached to it. The level 70 and 80 gear just seemed like a grind of raids constantly, I dont have a fun cool story, maybe the first time we cleared something or on the rare occasion that something crazy happened but most of the time it was just killing the same simple bosses over and over in hopes for gear or for tokens to get gear. None of it really matters because in a few months they level cap will be raised and everything you just got is utter junk that you will vendor or de. How does that not bother anyone else but me lol

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by sijmister

Also, if you ask any raider from either end of the spectrum, they would say that the raids are at a point where they are getting to be challenging for those who want it and accessible for those who don't.

I disagree here. They are becoming more and more accessible but far from challenging. I think complicated is a better description for WoW raiding these days. If you can learn where to stand or not to stand, when to run left/right, when its safe to cast and when its not, you can easily defeat any WoW encounter on heroic mode. Gone are the days when you had to be exceptionally skilled in your class. We no longer see wipes because a player used the wrong ability or a healer had to pick who to heal and who to let die because they just couldnt keep up with healing everyone...now its about wiping because some random generated spike comes out of the ground or someone hasnt spent enough time rehearsing running back and forth between the waves of acid. Its all well and good that Blizzard wants everyone to be able to access content, but it would be nice if they brought back the aspects that actually made raiding challenging, not complicated, at least for the heroic versions.

Most of the mechanics in the encounters are the same as have been used in other fights from the last expansion. One can only come up with so many new ways to make players wipe. And since when does knowing when to cast and not to cast, and knowing where to stand, not constitute skill? The vast majority of people I played with outside of my hardcore guild had a problem mastering even those points. And the reason that healers couldn't keep every one up before was because of an empty mana bar, not because of skill. I think being able to react quickly is a better test of skill than watching a blue bar tell you whether you can heal or not.

Let's take pallies as an example. In The Burning Crusade, they had two heals: Flash of Light and Holy Light. Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, the occasional Divine Protection, Lay on Hands, or Divine Intervention when it was needed, win. That was a pallie's job. Fun? No. Now, in addition to those two abilities, they have Beacon of Light, Holy Shock, Sacred Shield, and other situational abilities that they need and use (anyone who actually plays a pally, correct me if I'm wrong on any of those points). A lot of other two button classes have had their skill caps raised, been given more abilities to use, and can't get away with spamming the same thing over and over anymore.

Originally posted by sijmister

Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate it. Also, before anyone points them out, I have spotted two typos. I said that I started playing during the "second expansion, The Burning Crusade", which is actually the first expansion. Also later in the article, I threw in a rogue "is", the sentence starts something like "It is was". So sorry for the typos if the bothered anybody.

Now, @Babylon9000: Blizzard realizes that a lot of people don't like the fact that they make their graphics accommodate people who aren't willing to shell out a ton of cash for a fancy computer. They have taken steps to alleviate those issues so as to not alienate those who would appreciate better graphics. They have updated the shadows in the game to follow real world physics for shadows, they have included an option to increase the textures and polygon count for player character models, updated cat and bear form for druids and are in the process of updating the other forms,  added options to increase spell detail, and in the next expansion they will change to water to look absolutely awesome. If you want to see some pictures as to what is to come, the you should stop by the Blizzard website and check out the Cataclysm page, it looks great. Also, when you played the game, did you ever get into Outland, or just stay in the old world? The graphics in Outland are better than those in the old world, and the graphics in Northrend are better than those in Outland, and when Cataclysm comes out, they are going to revamp the old world so the graphics there will be up to par with anything that is currently available on the market, if you so choose.

I hope that has dispelled any doubts that you may have about the graphics in the game, because they truly are improving as the months and years go by.

@Greymann: WoW is far from dead. They have barely touched upon the lore available in the Warcraft franchise and they still have at least 4 expansion packs worth of content available to make. And like I said to Babylon9000, they are continually updating the graphics. Also, if you ask any raider from either end of the spectrum, they would say that the raids are at a point where they are getting to be challenging for those who want it and accessible for those who don't. Also, in terms of game balance, they are closer to parity between the classes in terms of PvE than they have even been at any other point in the game, and they continue to work towards closing the gap in PvP. The game is constantly improving, and if you would try to take an impartial, fresh, and nonjudgmental view towards it, you would see that. Of course, if you are just here to advertise Aion, which appears to be a more than decent game, then please continue.

Hi,

Thanks for the update info.

I will have to take another look at WoW. I dont recall what part of the world I was in but never got very far any of the times I played it. I think my highest toon was only level 12. Im sure I never made it to the areas where the improved graphics are.

This is more than enough to make me want to try it again. I cant get into any of the MMos Ive tried lately, and really did find the game play good in WoW Im just fussy about good graphics.

Thanks again!

Originally posted by shayneforu

Originally posted by sijmister

Originally posted by shayneforu

what turned me off was grinding to max level, grinding for all the gear I could get from each dungeon so I could do the next dungeon and before that grind was over they would release new levels and new builds, I guess I just hate doing the same dungeon for months and months just to de it with the next patch. I wanted more content but not more levels basically

 

It is now easier than ever to level and gear up a character. I can level a character from 1-80 in a matter of about 3 weeks, averaging about 2 hours per level or so, because leveling is so fast now. Plus, with the badge system, it is easy to upgrade your gear. And I find that when I check out the characters of a lot of the people who complain that the game is to easy, they haven't even beaten half of the bosses that are available in that tier of content. So, to those people I say, go kill the bosses before you complain about them.

 

I've made  5 level 70s and 3 level 80s, that grind just gets old and I've been there since release and I know how much easier the leveling has gotten but if they want to make the leveling so easy each expansion why not just not add levels and add content? AQ style new skills perhaps, if you want the new skills or talent points its a earn it doing something other then grinding out levels. That way when you add an expansion you dont force everyone to dump all that gear they worked to get. For the longest time I was keeping my memorable weapons and armor I had gotten in my bank because each piece had a fun story or memory attached to it. The level 70 and 80 gear just seemed like a grind of raids constantly, I dont have a fun cool story, maybe the first time we cleared something or on the rare occasion that something crazy happened but most of the time it was just killing the same simple bosses over and over in hopes for gear or for tokens to get gear. None of it really matters because in a few months they level cap will be raised and everything you just got is utter junk that you will vendor or de. How does that not bother anyone else but me lol

TBC was release 2 years and some months after Vanilla WoW, and Wrath was released 1 year and 9 months after TBC. How is that raising the level cap every few months? Blizzard releases new content patches every 4-6 months, but that is not raising the level cap. That is adding new content just like you want. People have complained before that they don't release content fast enough. Also if you want to grind for gear, you should try for the Legendary Mace, Val'nyr, Hammer of Ancient Kings, or the ilvl 272 cloaks from ToC. Those are both extremely difficult  to get and I am sure you would remember those for some time to come.

And besides you could look at it this way. Instead of seeing new gear as destroying old memories, look at is as creating new ones. Life moves forward, and so does World of Warcraft. When you go from high school to college, you're not like, damn, all that time and all those memories from moving up in high school are gone, you say, I have a chance to make some new memories in college. How is that much different than what you are describing?

@Babylon9000, glad I could make you reconsider, and if you need anymore convincing, go to the official game website and check out the screenshots on the Cataclysm expansion page.

Originally posted by sijmister

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by sijmister

Also, if you ask any raider from either end of the spectrum, they would say that the raids are at a point where they are getting to be challenging for those who want it and accessible for those who don't.

I disagree here. They are becoming more and more accessible but far from challenging. I think complicated is a better description for WoW raiding these days. If you can learn where to stand or not to stand, when to run left/right, when its safe to cast and when its not, you can easily defeat any WoW encounter on heroic mode. Gone are the days when you had to be exceptionally skilled in your class. We no longer see wipes because a player used the wrong ability or a healer had to pick who to heal and who to let die because they just couldnt keep up with healing everyone...now its about wiping because some random generated spike comes out of the ground or someone hasnt spent enough time rehearsing running back and forth between the waves of acid. Its all well and good that Blizzard wants everyone to be able to access content, but it would be nice if they brought back the aspects that actually made raiding challenging, not complicated, at least for the heroic versions.

 

Most of the mechanics in the encounters are the same as have been used in other fights from the last expansion. One can only come up with so many new ways to make players wipe. And since when does knowing when to cast and not to cast, and knowing where to stand, not constitute skill? The vast majority of people I played with outside of my hardcore guild had a problem mastering even those points. And the reason that healers couldn't keep every one up before was because of an empty mana bar, not because of skill. I think being able to react quickly is a better test of skill than watching a blue bar tell you whether you can heal or not.

Let's take pallies as an example. In The Burning Crusade, they had two heals: Flash of Light and Holy Light. Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, the occasional Divine Protection, Lay on Hands, or Divine Intervention when it was needed, win. That was a pallie's job. Fun? No. Now, in addition to those two abilities, they have Beacon of Light, Holy Shock, Sacred Shield, and other situational abilities that they need and use (anyone who actually plays a pally, correct me if I'm wrong on any of those points). A lot of other two button classes have had their skill caps raised, been given more abilities to use, and can't get away with spamming the same thing over and over anymore.

I guess we will just have different views of what player skill is then. If you are a healer with an empty mana bar, it is most likely due to inefficient spell casting. I would not consider a player who just spams, spams, spams a heal then runs out of mana before the fight is half way over skilled. Empty mana bars are a very quick indicator of someone doing something wrong. I can understand wanting to have quick reaction times, but WoW has never been a twitch based game. IMO knowing when and how to use the proper spells should have more impact on the raid outcome than juking left and right.

I dont even want to get started talking about Paladins. Hybrids that can heal, tank, and DPS just as well as the non-hybrids is a whole other debate.

the problem is fanboys dont let anyone else have their opinions lol they hate because everyone doesnt love what they love

Sorry I am not trying to be a fanboy, I am just trying to maintain a discussion here. I respect your opinions, and I am just trying to counter them with opinions of my own. Sorry if in the process I come across as pushy or disrespectful, that is not the intent.