I would have to say that DarkFall has been generally most challenging MMO I have played due to full loot and PVP focus. Especially after the launch when your ingame life was truly cheap. Now if they would only polish the game slightly, add meaningful quests and fix the balance, etc. and get more players it would be a great game overall. Hope the new expansion does all that...

On rules, equipment and tactics point of view I would say EVE is the most challenging MMO game around. WW II Online is a good contender in this category too if you can count it as being a MMO.

I had high hopes for Fallen Earth, but I find it a bit too fluffy and easy even at the beginning.

Originally posted by Torik

 

The problem I have addressing your topic is that I do not consider your description of the content you want to be particularly 'challenging'.  That's probably because I do not consider 'endurance challenges'  in video games to be 'real challenges'. 

Try not to look at it in the context of current MMOs.  By challenging, I'm not talking about it simply taking a long time, and I've no interest in mindlessly grinding for months on end.  But I would enjoy a game world requiring more brain activity than being in a coma, while lasting longer than 2 weeks.  I don't want to get all the way to end-game with no effort at all, I want the game to stop me like it's saying "You can't go any further", so I can come up with a creative way of saying "bullshit", not just mindlessly quest and grind like a zombie until end-game, I don't even want to see the end-game.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by Palebane

 

Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.

 

Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.

 

True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.

Plus, there's a hell of  a grind.

So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!

And permadeath, that part really sucks too. 

have you looked at Ryzom? It is skill based, and it would take a very long time to max all the skills.

The world is very immersive too, and you can't just walk around blindly. You need to be aware of the predators, where they hunt, when they sleep, etc.

The crafting is the best in any game; there are no set recipes, you have to learn how to make stuff yourself. Everyone has their own special recipes that they have worked out.

Resource gathering is also the best in any game; stuff isn't just lying around to be picked up. You have to go prospecting (which is a trainable skill) for what you need, and once you find it, you can't just dig it up. Digging is dangerous, and will probably kill you if you don't have the skills and pay attention.

Originally posted by heremypet

Originally posted by Torik

 

The problem I have addressing your topic is that I do not consider your description of the content you want to be particularly 'challenging'.  That's probably because I do not consider 'endurance challenges'  in video games to be 'real challenges'. 

 

Try not to look at it in the context of current MMOs.  By challenging, I'm not talking about it simply taking a long time, and I've no interest in mindlessly grinding for months on end.  But I would enjoy a game world requiring more brain activity than being in a coma, while lasting longer than 2 weeks.  I don't want to get all the way to end-game with no effort at all, I want the game to stop me like it's saying "You can't go any further", so I can come up with a creative way of saying "bullshit", not just mindlessly quest and grind like a zombie until end-game, I don't even want to see the end-game.

Fair enough.

With all the discussions on this forum going over the same issues over and over, it often becomes hard to read what exactly a poster is trying to convey.  My reading of your OP gave me a picture that you actually wanted things to take a long time and consist of more grinding.  If that was not your intention then I appologize.

I am strong supporter of an 'achievement-based' progression where levels are not based on how much XP you gain but on what you have accomplished.  So in order to progress you would have to beat a challenge.  The tricky part is to design a system like this in a way that will not pigeon-hole players into roles and content that they do not find fun. 

Aion is nothing but mindless repetitiveness...that does not in any way shape or form make it difficult.

FFXI and EVE on the otherhard have very challenging gameplay and I suggest looking into those games if you are looking for a challenge.

Originally posted by ChrisMattern

 

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Originally posted by Ihmotepp

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Originally posted by heremypet

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Originally posted by Palebane
 
Real Life is pretty epic, and awefully challenging at times as well.

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Yea, I get excellent framerate in RL, but the community stinks and the storyline is pointless.

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True. And you don't get bind on pick up, but gear replacement and repair costs are way to high.
Plus, there's a hell of  a grind.
So gear wears out, then you have to grind to fix it. Bleh!

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Worst of all, RMT is only way to get anything.

A question on the epic new game how do you reoll? 

 EVE is the only mmo I've ever tried that itimidated me and made my brain hurt from it's complexity and vastness.  Regrettably I never got in on the ground floor and each time I play the demos I like it but fear it's too late.

The new Dust 514 game coming up makes it look even more challenging.

EVE, find a good corp in 0.0 and it helps to have a RL friend to play with because you really need someone you can trust :)

Hello Kitty online.

You could try playing Dofus on permadeath server.