Most of the elements you listed you are suposed to provide yourself through roleplaying or such... Deep thinker? If people dont get that impression is not because of your class choice. You list five atributes when you know, if youve had any experience with MMOs, that most clases are based around one or two, three at most. Keeps to himself but is knowledgeable of people (dont you find it contradictory) and is both a rugged outdoorsman and an intellectual and fights with both melee and magic and is both heroic and a lone wolf...

GET OVER YOURSELF. Its not games that lack depth, its you and your pretentious ideals... I remember your kind from my pnp days, guys like you chose hybrid or jack-of-all-trades classes and expected to be every bit as good as specialist in their roles. Always minmaxing and begging the DM to bend the rules for you. What a wacked ego... and you even have the nerve to shoot down the people trying to help you?

Just go through game forums and pick the game people complaint of being the most unbalanced, then roll the most OP class and buy gold so you can get uber gear. Dont forget to choose the rp server so you can constantly gloat about how deep you char is...

Edit; Come on!  Three blades (oh, yea, one concealed) a bow and elemental magic. Oh yea, but you want to look cool in leather armor... Dont you want a win button added to your UI?

My suggestion would be a game like Darkfall.  No classes.  You create your own class by leveling up the skills you want.

You have not described a class.  You've described a character.

Classes are a loose archetype which defines your abilities.  Characters are specific people, as you've described.

Nobody wants a game with an Aragorn class, where 20,000 players all look exactly like Aragorn.  Instead we usually have the "ranger" class, where you're free to create slight variations in character design but with the general fighting style of aragorn.

To be honest, you could probably create the character in Champions.  Archery skills, lighting magic, a cloak, dagger, short sword (or two) on back, and bow.

Despite that vague possibility, do you honestly think it's fair to demand that you won't play a game until it lets you create this extremely specific character?   I mean, it's not like people go around saying "I refuse to read any book unless it's about a dyslexic german midget named Ted."    That's just unreasonable.  And a little funny.

I'd say Shadowbane if it were still running.

Their rangers were pretty damn versatile in abilities. Ranged, melee, stealth, nature magic/lore, animal pets and taking animal form, tracking and some stuff I can't remember.

Of course, you couldn't really have all of these and excel at each. You had to choose how you wanted to build your character.

Originally posted by Caleveira

Most of the elements you listed you are suposed to provide yourself through roleplaying or such... Deep thinker? If people dont get that impression is not because of your class choice. You list five atributes when you know, if youve had any experience with MMOs, that most clases are based around one or two, three at most. Keeps to himself but is knowledgeable of people (dont you find it contradictory) and is both a rugged outdoorsman and an intellectual and fights with both melee and magic and is both heroic and a lone wolf...

GET OVER YOURSELF. Its not games that lack depth, its you and your pretentious ideals... I remember your kind from my pnp days, guys like you chose hybrid or jack-of-all-trades classes and expected to be every bit as good as specialist in their roles. Always minmaxing and begging the DM to bend the rules for you. What a wacked ego... and you even have the nerve to shoot down the people trying to help you?

Just go through game forums and pick the game people complaint of being the most unbalanced, then roll the most OP class and buy gold so you can get uber gear. Dont forget to choose the rp server so you can constantly gloat about how deep you char is...

Edit; Come on!  Three blades (oh, yea, one concealed) a bow and elemental magic. Oh yea, but you want to look cool in leather armor... Dont you want a win button added to your UI?

The title of the thread was an obvious rhetorical question. Of course no MMORPG has the class I described. I intended the thread to be more about talking about class concepts, but it didn't evolve to what I hoped. Instead, people like you came in here with a narrow perspective and mind, and decided it'd be much easier to insult than to approach the subject with an open mind. I'm not looking for a new MMORPG right now. I've played all of the ones on the market over the past 7 years.

As for your insults, I won't dignify them with a rebuttal or counter-insult. You obviously have some unresolved issues and prejudices and decided to vent your fustrations out on me, instead of the people you actually delt with that were as you described. This post from you has earned you 0 respect from me.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Caleveira

Most of the elements you listed you are suposed to provide yourself through roleplaying or such... Deep thinker? If people dont get that impression is not because of your class choice. You list five atributes when you know, if youve had any experience with MMOs, that most clases are based around one or two, three at most. Keeps to himself but is knowledgeable of people (dont you find it contradictory) and is both a rugged outdoorsman and an intellectual and fights with both melee and magic and is both heroic and a lone wolf...

GET OVER YOURSELF. Its not games that lack depth, its you and your pretentious ideals... I remember your kind from my pnp days, guys like you chose hybrid or jack-of-all-trades classes and expected to be every bit as good as specialist in their roles. Always minmaxing and begging the DM to bend the rules for you. What a wacked ego... and you even have the nerve to shoot down the people trying to help you?

Just go through game forums and pick the game people complaint of being the most unbalanced, then roll the most OP class and buy gold so you can get uber gear. Dont forget to choose the rp server so you can constantly gloat about how deep you char is...

Edit; Come on!  Three blades (oh, yea, one concealed) a bow and elemental magic. Oh yea, but you want to look cool in leather armor... Dont you want a win button added to your UI?

 

The title of the thread was an obvious rhetorical question. Of course no MMORPG has the class I described. I intended the thread to be more about talking about class concepts, but it didn't evolve to what I hoped. Instead, people like you came in here with a narrow perspective and mind, and decided it'd be much easier to insult than to approach the subject with an open mind. I'm not looking for a new MMORPG right now. I've played all of the ones on the market over the past 7 years.

As for your insults, I won't dignify them with a rebuttal or counter-insult. You obviously have some unresolved issues and prejudices and decided to vent your fustrations out on me, instead of the people you actually delt with that were as you described. This post from you has earned you 0 respect from me.

So you dont see the contradiction in calling me narrow minded and then claiming you wont insult me? Did it take you another 15 min to write that post... If you meant to discuss class concepts you should have said so instead of writing a wish list for what a player with 7 years on his belt would know to be an overpowered and unbalancing class. How would you translate "deep thinker" into a class mechanic anyway? Apparently no other poster got your obvious rethorical question mmm... could it be that maybe you couldnt express yourself properly? Its a good thing you took time to sort your thoughts...

And really, you must be delussional if you thought i was trying to earn your respect...

And btw, i hold no resentment. Its just that ive always dealt with people like you by being "brutally honest"

Originally posted by Caleveira

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by Caleveira

Most of the elements you listed you are suposed to provide yourself through roleplaying or such... Deep thinker? If people dont get that impression is not because of your class choice. You list five atributes when you know, if youve had any experience with MMOs, that most clases are based around one or two, three at most. Keeps to himself but is knowledgeable of people (dont you find it contradictory) and is both a rugged outdoorsman and an intellectual and fights with both melee and magic and is both heroic and a lone wolf...

GET OVER YOURSELF. Its not games that lack depth, its you and your pretentious ideals... I remember your kind from my pnp days, guys like you chose hybrid or jack-of-all-trades classes and expected to be every bit as good as specialist in their roles. Always minmaxing and begging the DM to bend the rules for you. What a wacked ego... and you even have the nerve to shoot down the people trying to help you?

Just go through game forums and pick the game people complaint of being the most unbalanced, then roll the most OP class and buy gold so you can get uber gear. Dont forget to choose the rp server so you can constantly gloat about how deep you char is...

Edit; Come on!  Three blades (oh, yea, one concealed) a bow and elemental magic. Oh yea, but you want to look cool in leather armor... Dont you want a win button added to your UI?

 

The title of the thread was an obvious rhetorical question. Of course no MMORPG has the class I described. I intended the thread to be more about talking about class concepts, but it didn't evolve to what I hoped. Instead, people like you came in here with a narrow perspective and mind, and decided it'd be much easier to insult than to approach the subject with an open mind. I'm not looking for a new MMORPG right now. I've played all of the ones on the market over the past 7 years.

As for your insults, I won't dignify them with a rebuttal or counter-insult. You obviously have some unresolved issues and prejudices and decided to vent your fustrations out on me, instead of the people you actually delt with that were as you described. This post from you has earned you 0 respect from me.

 

So you dont see the contradiction in calling me narrow minded and then claiming you wont insult me? Did it take you another 15 min to write that post... If you meant to discuss class concepts you should have said so instead of writing a wish list for what a player with 7 years on his belt would know to be an overpowered and unbalancing class. How would you translate "deep thinker" into a class mechanic anyway? Apparently no other poster got your obvious rethorical question mmm... could it be that maybe you couldnt express yourself properly? Its a good thing you took time to sort your thoughts...

And really, you must be delussional if you thought i was trying to earn your respect...

And btw, i hold no resentment. Its just that ive always dealt with people like you by being "brutally honest"

Since you like to be brutally honest, what would you call a person who cannot comprehend a post? Because I stated plainly that I'd only expect to see the skills and attributes section turned into a class. Nothing listed under personality could be. That's something only I could bring to the game with either a Bio or RP.

You've read a few post out of one thread, yet you think you know me enough to make a comment like "...always dealt with people like you..." Now if someone said that to you, what would you think of that person? Try puting yourself in another persons shoes for once. Maybe you'd find that person hysterical for assuming they know you after a few posts? Anyone with critical thinking skills know that if you stereotype someone, you're going to be wrong, because when you stereotype you fail to see beneath the surface of the person, not to mention that surface was interpretted by your perspective that is heavily biased through your upbringing and enculturalization.

You don't need my respect to post on these forums, but a decent human being would want the respect of others. Don't mistaken that for caring what others think either. When you lose a persons respect, you miss out on any information and knowledge that they may have, that you don't and might want to know. By not wanting my respect, wouldn't that be an assumption on your part that there is nothing worth learning from me? That's text book arrogance. But since you don't want my respect, I'll just block you and stay out of your threads. I wonder if you have the maturity to stay out of mine.

You actually described a ranger from EQ. They could dual wield and were pretty good melee, but not the best. They were the best at bows, with the right AA, but eventually the melee was better than bow skill. He had magic, lightning attacks, some fire and various other utility magic. He could forage the land, charm animals and track people. I always carried food, drink, and bandages on my ranger.

Hmm, yup, you pretty much described an EQ ranger with your personal preference to roleplay him.

Originally posted by nate1980

Below is my ideal character. In answering this question, just consider his attributes and skills. His gear should be considered secondary.

Attributes:

Intelligence, Wisdom, Strength, Constitution, and Endurance

His Gear:

On his person, he is decked out in leather armor, w/ moulded plate armor covering his chest, back, shoulders, upper arms, forearms, thighs, and shins. He wears leather gloves and boots. He'll wear fur instead of leather in the cold months. He wears a cloak ,with the hood down. In the shadow of the cloak, you can barely make out his features.

He has a longsword strapped to his back, a short sword on his hip, a dagger strapped to his leg, and a bow strung w/ arrows hung across his bag. On his leather belt is a money pouch, usually concealed by his cloak. He also walks around with a staff, that aids in balance on rough terrain, and doubles as a bowstaff.

In his pack, he carries food, water, and a first aid kit made out of herbs.

Skills:

He has intermediate skill with his swords and bow. He has basic skill w/ the bow.

He is knowledgable of plants, animals & their benefits.

He is knowledgable of people. (psychology, sociology, and politics)

He commands elemental magic (lightning & wind)

Personality:

His outward appearance is quiet and keeps to himself mostly.

He opens up around those he knows, revealing a depth of character.

Those who know him, know that he's a deep thinker (philosophical), is brutally honest, thirsts for knowledge and truth, has a strong sense of justice, is curious, loves to have fun, thinks happiness is the purpose in life, enjoys the outdoors (the mountains and surrounding terrain in particular [think the Rockies] ), hates sand (it gets everywhere), the ocean, swamps, and thick forests (think SouthEastern USA).

Those who seek his help know that he's a problem solver, protects the innocent, and is an avenger.

 

I scribbled this out in a matter of 15min. to sort out my thoughts. After reading it, it's no wonder I have a hard time getting into MMORPG's. There's no depth in character in any of these MMORPG's, and good luck with me finding a class that would have everythign I added above.

What do you all think?
 

I think you should either continue or start playing DnD as you can have all of that pretty much and all of it will actually make a difference.

I agree, there is very little character depth in MMORPGs, but companies will never find the time for it because its not a 'selling point.' One day there'll be one, but for now, DnD is a good way to get into a playable character for sure.