Originally posted by Vallanor

That said, I do have very serious issues with FE's questing system with regard to its "x-marks-the-spot" type gameplay, which has been taken to a whole new level.  Yes, there is a lot to do beyond questing, and I've credited the game numerous times as such, but a red "blip" telling me exactly where to go at all times is frustrating beyond measure to me.  It really did make it unplayable in my experience, but again, I think many people will like it as it makes things less frustrating.  FE has a lot going for it, but I'll have to leave it alone for now.

I am one of those who like the "x-marks-the-spot" approach. In LotRO I regularly spent 30 mins trawling the area which the general description of where the quest object was before finding it. That annoyed me to a very large extent, and I ended up alt+tab'ing out to a database giving me the location after a little while. A feature disabeling the X would be better imho, then you guys who hate it can run around like blind chickens ;)

hehe groups.... Ya, for S1 you don't really need one unless you are a crafter. I just follow people and shoot their mobs once and get kill credit. No one cares, and if they ask you just say you are a crafter. Most people have alts and understand. I really don't think this game is very anti-social. I talk all the time in region. I get help when I need it. Its not like WoW where in 2-3 minutes of looking you have a full group ready to do a quest. There just is not that many people.

Originally posted by Benjola

I dunno.

It's Mad Max online and I like it solo, what can i tell you.

I've been playing MMORPGs for over a decade and I've had my share of socializing in online games.

I've been a guild leader and raid leader of one of the largest guilds in EQ for 3 years.

So you could say I know grouping heh.

One of the things I like about this game is that nothing is forced, not the PVE content nor the PVP.

Everything is optional and done for enjoyment of the game as a whole instead of being forced to group with people in order to finish an objective even when you dont feel like it.

 

Feature-wise this game is as good as it gets for me, I wouldn't change a thing.

 

SIGN!

One reason why i love this game! Why should anyone be forced to group to finish a quest, a dungeon or whatever?Why?

Yea thats reason why i realy cant stand this standard mmorgs anymore (wow war aion ect..) u HAVE to be in a big guild to survive..
 

If u whant group, there are for sure more than enough ppl who whant, most ppl will be in clans, playing with friends ect. they have the option, and im sure they will group up when for them it s greater fun, no need for a uber boss or a dungeon where u have to spend 7 hours to complete....who looks for this kind of "socialisation" they can get one of that thousands mmorg games out there who forces u to play in groups, to be able to finish a q/dungeon content even if u must play with the greatest idiots on this planet:))
 

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Vallanor

That said, I do have very serious issues with FE's questing system with regard to its "x-marks-the-spot" type gameplay, which has been taken to a whole new level.  Yes, there is a lot to do beyond questing, and I've credited the game numerous times as such, but a red "blip" telling me exactly where to go at all times is frustrating beyond measure to me.  It really did make it unplayable in my experience, but again, I think many people will like it as it makes things less frustrating.  FE has a lot going for it, but I'll have to leave it alone for now.

 

I am one of those who like the "x-marks-the-spot" approach. In LotRO I regularly spent 30 mins trawling the area which the general description of where the quest object was before finding it. That annoyed me to a very large extent, and I ended up alt+tab'ing out to a database giving me the location after a little while. A feature disabeling the X would be better imho, then you guys who hate it can run around like blind chickens ;)

I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.

I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.

Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.

Originally posted by neonwire

 

I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.

I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.

Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.

  I remember that quest; I still feel like a complete ass for subscribing to that game (back when it was P2P), but even more of one for actually completing it.

Originally posted by //\\//\\oo

Originally posted by neonwire

 

I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.

I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.

Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.

 

  I remember that quest; I still feel like a complete ass for subscribing to that game (back when it was P2P), but even more of one for actually completing it.

Ha ha! I remember trying to get to the end before my subscription ran out. I never made it. Most of it wasnt even a game! Run to npc. Read story. Run to next npc. Read story. Run back to previous npc. Read story. Run to next npc. Read story. Ask myself why the hell I'm doing this shit. Fail to provide myself with an answer but carry on anyway like a complete spastik. Run to next npc.......

.....and there wasnt even any loot to find which is one of the addictive qualities that keep people playing these crappy MMO's. Well there sort of was but it was only visual fluff and had no stats. That was the developers attempt at being innovative......by removing loot grinding. Unfortunately addiction is the only appeal of MMOs so if you remove that then people find it hard to ignore how crap they are to play. They did however have a fairly good FPS style combat system which was far more fluid than what FE has to offer. Not neccessarily more interesting but it felt much nicer and more intuitive to use.

Oddly enough despite the fact that the game is mostly just reading a crappy story, its actually not much worse than any other MMO. God why are MMO's so fucking rubbish? lol

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by Vallanor

That said, I do have very serious issues with FE's questing system with regard to its "x-marks-the-spot" type gameplay, which has been taken to a whole new level.  Yes, there is a lot to do beyond questing, and I've credited the game numerous times as such, but a red "blip" telling me exactly where to go at all times is frustrating beyond measure to me.  It really did make it unplayable in my experience, but again, I think many people will like it as it makes things less frustrating.  FE has a lot going for it, but I'll have to leave it alone for now.

 

I am one of those who like the "x-marks-the-spot" approach. In LotRO I regularly spent 30 mins trawling the area which the general description of where the quest object was before finding it. That annoyed me to a very large extent, and I ended up alt+tab'ing out to a database giving me the location after a little while. A feature disabeling the X would be better imho, then you guys who hate it can run around like blind chickens ;)

 

I'm the same. Running around like a headless chicken looking for an npc or object which you KNOW will always be in the same place anyway is extremely boring. If I want to just run around aimlessly then I will do that when the fancy takes me......and sometimes I do go out harvesting which includes that activity. However if I'm doing a quest then I want to know where I need to go so I can experience what that quest has to offer......which isnt much usually lol. Having the red X removed wont make it more interesting or challenging. It would just make it more boring and time consuming. There's a difference. Oh and this doesnt mean I am one of the "gimme gimme now kids". It means I want to spend my time doing the fun stuff in a game and less of the boring stuff.

I remember The Chronicles of Spellborn didnt have quest markers. Oh golly did that game get tiresome. There was one quest in a fairly early zone in which a little boy had lost his toys. You had to search the entire zone for these bloody things. I think there were 8 of them. It was BORRRRRIIIINNNNGGGG. No brain power was required for this. I didnt really have to think about anything. Any brain dead idiot could have done it. This kind of crap happened a LOT in that game. Because of mind numbing experiences like that I am really glad that Fallen Earth clearly indicates where you need to go.

Oh and yes I ended up using websites to tell me where the things were as well. It was the only sensible thing to do.

I can actually agree with you on this one, believe it or not.  Quests should not be designed like the one you mentioned in TCoS.  Finding eight random locations in a zone to complete the quest is absurd and poorly put together.

My issue really is less with the "x marks the spot" stuff (althought I really do despise it) as it is with the entire concept of quest-based advancement.  Quests should be less common and far more meaningful.  And they should require thought to complete.  Collecting 8 dolls is not a thought-based quest and really shouldn't be in a game.  I'd much rather go dungeon-crawling somewhere and come across an artifact or something.  I could then find a language expert in a nearby town to translate the writing which would lead me somewhere else, etc.  The real problem with questing these days is the "kill x mobs, gather y plants, etc. etc. etc. etc., then repeat at the next quest hub, yadda yadda yadda" drivel that we are bombarded with.  In my mind, they don't disguise the grind they just make it more annoying because the developers decide where and how you should be grinding.

And don't even get me started on the little exclamation points above everyone's heads either....

(I've been on a bit of a rant-fest these last few days.  Apologies all around, but it feels good to air my grievances!)

Originally posted by Benjola

I dunno.

It's Mad Max online and I like it solo, what can i tell you.

I've been playing MMORPGs for over a decade and I've had my share of socializing in online games.

I've been a guild leader and raid leader of one of the largest guilds in EQ for 3 years.

So you could say I know grouping heh.

One of the things I like about this game is that nothing is forced, not the PVE content nor the PVP.

Everything is optional and done for enjoyment of the game as a whole instead of being forced to group with people in order to finish an objective even when you dont feel like it.

 

Feature-wise this game is as good as it gets for me, I wouldn't change a thing.

 

Exactly the reason I play this game, and yeah, I've been all those in the past as well (just not EQ though). After all those previous games where I HAD to group with people I really like the fact that I don't have to here. Just once, I get to look forward to being able to say I did it all on my own. I'd rather be known at the end as 'the guy' that took on the world and won, not 'one of the guys' that did it together.

I actually like the game because it doesn't force you to group, although I have grouped more in FE than I have in other MMO's. I have been forced to leave other MMO's because I couldnt proceed due to not being able to find a group and when I do I always found some prat 'needing' everything!  The groups I have been in, have been mature, sensible and quite patient.  Most times I will get an invite with a person to run through a mission and then parting at the end of it.  Later in S1 there are some missions that need a group and I found plenty of people waiting to do them. 

You want people to group? Create a tough dungeon and stock it up with bosses who drop great loot. Of course this is not what FE is about. Which is bad in a way since the PvE content is boring as hell in the late game. Its like an after thought.

Originally posted by blakavar

I find many times posted problems with FE are often barely hidden desires never incorporated in the original design ie full pvp looting, FFA pvp.

In the case of your post you are 100% correct sir. It is one of a couple pretty big problems Icarus needs to really get fixed soon.

Other two are no item degradation and AP farming/Mob aggro fixes. Those are whole rants on thier own so I'll stick with the need to include forced grouping content for s1. By that I mean measure it so you can't go back 5 levels later and solo it.

Do it in a group or make it useless.

QFE.  I have gone through most of S1 so far without really needing to group.  Last night I did Kingman Prison with a group and we had a ton of fun and just rolled through the place, something I couldn't do solo.  I really hope that Icarus will make some of the new zones more group friendly as it is one area that the game needs improvement.  I'll follow suit and leave those other topics to other threads.