Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by Teala

It is an unwinnable war.    Short of genocide, the way Genghis Khan conquered it, it just isn't going to happen.   Think about it, even after Genghis Khan ordered the destruction of whole cities, killing all men, women and children, and all living things including birds and animals - he still failed to completely conquer Afghanistan completely.   What makes the US think they are going to have a better chance.    The people of Afghanistan need to be left alone.    What we on the outside need to do is just monitor for terrorist camps being set-up and eliminate them when needed.   Other than that - let them people govern themselves.    We have no business being there.

It's not that the war is unwinnable, it's the fact that the conditions we would consider as "winning" have not been clearly defined.  In that respect, I do agree with your statement, "We have no business being there." We probably shouldn't be or should never have been without a clearly defined mission and "endgame" to use an mmo term.  Are we there to disrupt the terrorists or are we nation building? 

At any rate, remember you can hate the war, but don't hate the soldier.  A soldier doesn't get paid to think about the politics or question the "why" of something.  A soldier is given a mission and is paid to acomplish it.  Nothing more...nothing less........

 

Precisely. We started the offensive in Afghanistan as one phase of winning the "War on Terror," which is fundamentally stupid, since you can't win a war against a tactic. That's like attempting to win the War on Cheating. And then it eventually transformed into a nation-building exercise, and if there's one thing the U.S. isn't very good at, it's nation-building.

Or like trying to win a war on drugs or a war on poverty.

And yeah, we do suck at nation-building...not that there is anyone who is particularly GOOD at it.

Originally posted by xanphia

Amount dead: 655000 Iraqis

Amount Dead: 706,899 Afghanis
many more injured

U.S. Troops dead: 3853 (more than 9/11)

Yeah, yeah you can use that bullshit about the "left" undermining the military but actually the people control the military by extension. If a large portion of the country wants em back I can't falter the leadership for wanting them back. Heard that same shit during Vietnam.

These were two wars, especially Iraq, that we had no reason to fight. Caused extensive tax dollars and loss of innocent life. There really was no reason for it, it was not a just war. The basic premise behind Iraq: WMD's was proven false.

So who was our enemy that would be in control of large parts of Iraq in 2005?

It all comes down to: how many lives do you want to ruin to further your own political agenda. Sure, we won militarily in Iraq but are doing a terrible job trying to rebuild. Let the Iraqis rebuild themselves. Any fault of their own they can't trace back to us.

 

Source?

Either send enough troops to make sure we control the situation over there, or pull our troops who are currently in danger back.  I don't care either, just do something to make sure we protect our soldiers there.  In Iraq they needed the troop surge and it helped.  If that's what they need for Afghanistan, then get it done and over with.  As is right now, they could wait forever to get the voting fraud issues settled.  All the meanwhile our troops are in danger.

I personally don't think we should be there, but remember the support to go into Afghanistan was always high.  People from both sides, including this president, have openly said they support the war in Afghanistan.  So this is Obama's war now, as he has embraced it and said he would do whatever it takes to hunt the 9/11 mastermind down.  Anybody who does not like how things are going, you probably have yourself to blame as well for supporting the war in Afghanistan.

Some posters in this thread are pointing fingers about how people didn't criticize Bush, what are you guys smoking?  Everybody, including Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly criticized Bush for mishandling of the Iraq war.  All the media were against Bush's Iraq war.  Why is it so hard for you to criticize Obama for his handling of Afghanistan war right now?  Why are you folks so easy going about this situation when we are suffering the worst year in Afghanistan since 2001?  Did you know U.S. alone lost 38 soldiers in June, 76 in July, 77 in August, 70 in September, and so far 39 in October?!  Does that look like things are going well?  This is allllll under President perfect nobel peace prize winning Obama.

My gosh people take off your party sunglasses.  The longer Obama waits, the worse things will become.  If he's not going to pull troops out of there, he needs to send them the reinforcements they need to secure the place.  For you people to make excuses for the president at this point in time is ridiculous.  We all have criticized Bush for his mishandling of the war, especially the part about not having a good strategy for after toppling Saddam.  It is OK to criticize Obama the superstar.

Originally posted by smokemonsc

Originally posted by Teala

It is an unwinnable war.    Short of genocide, the way Genghis Khan conquered it, it just isn't going to happen.   Think about it, even after Genghis Khan ordered the destruction of whole cities, killing all men, women and children, and all living things including birds and animals - he still failed to completely conquer Afghanistan completely.   What makes the US think they are going to have a better chance.    The people of Afghanistan need to be left alone.    What we on the outside need to do is just monitor for terrorist camps being set-up and eliminate them when needed.   Other than that - let them people govern themselves.    We have no business being there.

 

1000% agree.  The sooner people undertand this the better off we'll be.  Nation building is not authorized anywhere in the Constitution.

I agree that nation building is sketchy.

However, when critiquing whether or not we should be in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and whether or not the war is winnable, it's very important to understand what our actual goals are.

We know a majority of Afghanistan doesn't want the Taliban back in power, so should we quell the insurgency and stick around until Afghanistan's government and security is sustainable enough to do it on its own?

We're no longer engaged in a "war on terror", i.e. a tactic any of a thousand militant groups can employ. We're merely seeking to end the operational capacity of al Qaeda. So should we continue drone attacks in Pakistan and pressuring their government to engage al-Qaeda infested militants on their side of the border?

I believe we can prop Afghanistan's government and security, I believe we can find Osama bin Laden so long as we aren't passive about Pakistan. This "war" is very winnable so long as we fight within our terms, and our terms make sense.

That said, I certainly understand the calls to just withdraw. We save the lives of our soldiers and hundreds of billions of dollars. But we don't necessarily leave a region we won't have to visit again and that isn't dangerous to us. I believe now that we have actual achieveable goals, we should achieve them.

Sorry im writing this so late, i literally just got free...

Firstly, the first thing to note about the pakistani talbian is that they were trained by the army about 10 years ago, they were initially supportive of the government cause (and that of America), so the army knows the taliban very well. I was told a few weeks ago by an army official that they could destroy the taliban any time they wanted but the problem is that they don't want to because it is like killing your own brother. It is pakistani people fighting pakistani people, which is not what anyone wants and it's even worse that not tso long ago they were working side by side. Recently this has begun to change slowly but still the soldiers themselves don't want to fight.

Secondly, it's important to note that the public was not against the taliban until recent years and now they have turned against in them in the wake of several bombings, but before this they did not like the ruling government (military dictatorship who was a sellout in the eyes of the pakistani people) and so they sided with Taliban. But like I said this has changed and the people are now supporting the government BUT again it's important to note thtat the curent governments popularity has dropped so heavily that unless the party changes it's leader (Asif ZardarI) they are likely to be finished and probably never recover. this decline in popularity is mainly attributed by fake promises by the president and the fact that the president has sold pakistan out to america for money. The new american army compound being built in Islamabad (the capital) has caused widespread controversy, no one in pakistan is for it but the president was paid enough and so he let it through. Why is this important? Because the government needs the people on side and the people are turning against them, even worse the Army is turning against the government especially since the Kerry-Lugar Bill was introduced. This bill was basically introduced by Senator Kerry, it's provisions in shell are; we'll provide pakistan with more money if we gain greater control over the way the war on terror is run, this includes APPOINTING THE HEAD OF THE PAKISTANI ARMY. This is the most important part, this part has caused a split to occur between the state and the army, if this bill is passed i would not be suprised if there was a military coup after that. The Army is already on breaking point with continuing attacks from the Taliban but what has enraged them the most is the american drone attacks, had the army had it's way it would waded into afghanistan and started tof ire on american troops, that is the level of hatred they are causing because so many innocent pakistanis are being killed.

But what is going for America is the fact that the Taliban is becoming less and less popular day by day as attacks continue but they were often seen as the force which was fighting off the EVIL america, which is true because America was seen as evil due to the drone attacks it continued and might add WAS ADVOCATED BY OBAMA! So despite Obama's Islamic "connections" he's not the most popular guy in pakistan, furthermore he's generally seen as a YES man in most of the muslim world, all talk and no action.

On a more general point, people often worry about nuclear weapons falling into the hands fo terrorists, this is never going to happen! a) the terrorsits are no where near strong enough and b) they would be stopped by the army, the army would simply enforce marshal law and they be completely destroyed.

Thirdly, fighting the Taliban is not as easy as you might think, this is not an organised army with army gear, they look pakistani, act pakistani and they ARE pakistani. Now tell me in a busy market street full of asians in similar clothing how do you tell whose the terrorist? They all look alike, so when you see on the news army compound attacked or whatever don;t blame the lack of security, becuase security is there but it is just impossible to figure out who is the terrorist and who is the civilian. I often liken the taliban to the Vietcong because it is a close likeness but i would say these guys are more deadly, because they the drive and more importantly they have the cash. They sell drugs through pakistan which is often exported to western countries around the world through some way or another. You must also note about the current offensive is that those areas are not easy to spot the enemey from, the previous offensive in the SWAT Valley was much easier because the SWAT Valley is simply one massive valley and you know the enemy has to be somewhere inside, (by the way SWAT is a beautiful place, if the war is over and it is safe to go, I would strongly recommend people to go, absolutely amazing, i went there before all this started with the family) but the offensive in Waziristan is nowhere near as simple, it is nigh on impossible tospot the enemy from a plne or a helicopter because they are so well hidden and they can shoot you down without you even knowing it...Not pretty my friends....

I just want to add, I do not like the Taliban, in fact i hate them because they hate me, if I was to go to them they would kill me because I 'deviate' from religion, I think some of you may know about Sufism, but for those who don't it is a certain sect of Islam which is the more peacful side and away from the more fundamental Taliban, (and if you haven't guessed I'm sufi :) You can fill them in for me Fisher :P)

Anyway sorry for any mistakes, i'm typing this at 01:53 am GMT, I can't be bothered to spell check...and sorry again for posting this so late. thanks. There is some more stuff i'll add later but this will do for now :)

 Edit: Sorry I forgot to add, The full provisions of the Kerry-Lugar Bill.

Originally posted by murdera2k6

On a more general point, people often worry about nuclear weapons falling into the hands fo terrorists, this is never going to happen! a) the terrorsits are no where near strong enough and b) they would be stopped by the army, the army would simply enforce marshal law and they be completely destroyed.

This is very true (so is pretty much the rest of your post, at least based on what I have seen and read). People seem to think that Pakistan's nuclear arsenal is just sitting in a field behind a rusty chain-link fence, guarded by a goat, just waiting for Al-Qaeda or the Taliban to swoop in, grab them and nuke Tel Aviv, London and Las Vegas. This is most definitely not the case -- by all accounts I've read, security around Pakistan's nuclear weapons is tighter than a dolphin's asshole.

That is some great information, Murdera! Thank you.

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by xanphia

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Pakistan has been a good ally of the USA from the start in this.

 We overthrew Saddam Hussein and he was hung for Crimes Against Humanity. We defeated al Qaeda and their insurgent friends in Iraq. WE WON IRAQ. One of the great victories this nation has achieved in its history.

 Now onward to Victory in Afghanistan and wherever else the enemy may reside.

 

 ..and to hell with the leftist liars in this nation who are as much a threat to our troops as the al Qaeda terrorist they face on the battlefield is had we listened to them in 2005 the enemy would be in control of large parts of Iraq and MILLIONS of people would be dead.

 

 

 

/////

As for Obama..its been a damn month!..DECIDE what plan for VICTORY you are going to chose!...Quit dicking around!

VICTORY Obama..if you don't believe in it then get the hell out of the WH so someone who does can lead this great nation.

 

 

 

 

Yeah you leftist liars. Watch out.

***American people are tired of seeing defeatists in this nation undermine our troops and peddling lines that have no basis in reality**

 

Dude, there already are millions dead from both wars.

 

***no there is not****

 

 

I'm really not quite sure what we are doing anymore in Iraq or Afghanistan. Can we just bring our men and women home already? This became a hassle years ago.

 

****We won in Iraq and are drawing down after the Victory there. Bush ignored the Democrat/Leftist defeatists and supported the Generals to win that Victory..or Iraq would be a hell on earth for those the left wanted to abandon....

 

We are fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan until we WIN****

 

 

Pakistan may have said they were good allies, but up until now we've had to pressure them to attack the Taliban strongholds near their borders.

 

****they launched numerous offensives up until about 2007/2008 when they attempted a peace deal..it fell apart when the Taliban launched a major offenive back January 2009. Which the Pakistanis first repulsed then destroyed.

Now as they have made clear there will be no peace agreement.***********

 

The left in this nation since 9/11 has done nothing but try to undermine our troops and cause the USA to fail. Millions are alive today because they failed. USA is a beacon of hope to millions because they failed. Our enemies are being destroyed because they failed.

 

Thank God they failed and may God assure they fail forever.

While I have to say that your outburst is quite hilarious, it's also quite incorrect.

The USA is a beacon to hope? I'm going to assume you're refering to ignorant american patriots because the outside world certainly doesn't see the US as a beacon of hope,rather a country that invades other countries and kills its population for no good reason,

You remember that man that threw his shoe to President Bush? That man is now considered to be a hero not just in iraq, but in other middle eastern countries as well.

The US won Iraq? is this a joke? Iraq is a freaking mess. The US has killed more Iraq citizens than Sadam Hoessein would have and Al Qaeda is still alive and so is Osama Bin Laden.

Originally posted by zzvicezz

 

The left in this nation since 9/11 has done nothing but try to undermine our troops and cause the USA to fail. Millions are alive today because they failed. USA is a beacon of hope to millions because they failed. Our enemies are being destroyed because they failed.

 

Thank God they failed and may God assure they fail forever.

Not only are you an asshole, but you're a lunatic and an idiot.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? Outside of being factually incorrect, you seem to have this idea that your fellow Americans are playing for a different team simply because they disagree with YOUR way of doing things. That the simple act of having a different opinion than you means that they HATE AMERICA and they WANT TO SEE AMERICA FAIL. 

This is why I think our politics should end with our shores, Kobie. This is the only thing I'll stand with Obama on (well, that and weed of course), and the only time Bush got my support as well.

Even if I disagree with the policy, once we commit, I commit as well.

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by xanphia

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Pakistan has been a good ally of the USA from the start in this.

 We overthrew Saddam Hussein and he was hung for Crimes Against Humanity. We defeated al Qaeda and their insurgent friends in Iraq. WE WON IRAQ. One of the great victories this nation has achieved in its history.

 Now onward to Victory in Afghanistan and wherever else the enemy may reside.

 

 ..and to hell with the leftist liars in this nation who are as much a threat to our troops as the al Qaeda terrorist they face on the battlefield is had we listened to them in 2005 the enemy would be in control of large parts of Iraq and MILLIONS of people would be dead.

 

 

 

/////

As for Obama..its been a damn month!..DECIDE what plan for VICTORY you are going to chose!...Quit dicking around!

VICTORY Obama..if you don't believe in it then get the hell out of the WH so someone who does can lead this great nation.

 

 

 

 

Yeah you leftist liars. Watch out.

***American people are tired of seeing defeatists in this nation undermine our troops and peddling lines that have no basis in reality**

 

Dude, there already are millions dead from both wars.

 

***no there is not****

 

 

I'm really not quite sure what we are doing anymore in Iraq or Afghanistan. Can we just bring our men and women home already? This became a hassle years ago.

 

****We won in Iraq and are drawing down after the Victory there. Bush ignored the Democrat/Leftist defeatists and supported the Generals to win that Victory..or Iraq would be a hell on earth for those the left wanted to abandon....

 

We are fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan until we WIN****

 

 

Pakistan may have said they were good allies, but up until now we've had to pressure them to attack the Taliban strongholds near their borders.

 

****they launched numerous offensives up until about 2007/2008 when they attempted a peace deal..it fell apart when the Taliban launched a major offenive back January 2009. Which the Pakistanis first repulsed then destroyed.

Now as they have made clear there will be no peace agreement.***********

 

The left in this nation since 9/11 has done nothing but try to undermine our troops and cause the USA to fail. Millions are alive today because they failed. USA is a beacon of hope to millions because they failed. Our enemies are being destroyed because they failed.

 

Thank God they failed and may God assure they fail forever.

 

While I have to say that your outburst is quite hilarious, it's also quite incorrect.

The USA is a beacon to hope? I'm going to assume you're refering to ignorant american patriots because the outside world certainly doesn't see the US as a beacon of hope,rather a country that invades other countries and kills its population for no good reason,

You remember that man that threw his shoe to President Bush? That man is now considered to be a hero not just in iraq, but in other middle eastern countries as well.

The US won Iraq? is this a joke? Iraq is a freaking mess. The US has killed more Iraq citizens than Sadam Hoessein would have and Al Qaeda is still alive and so is Osama Bin Laden.

Yes you hate the USA we all know this.

Yes Iraq is a sucees and a victory..sorry you didn't get to abandon millions to terrorists and blame the USA for it.

Better luck next time.

Yes because if you're not a blind US patriot, you must hate the US. I wonder what loops of logic you had to jump through to come to that conclussion.

Abandon millions to terrorist? Don't make me laugh. What were they going to kill them with? The imaginary WMDs?

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by kobie173

Originally posted by zzvicezz

 

The left in this nation since 9/11 has done nothing but try to undermine our troops and cause the USA to fail. Millions are alive today because they failed. USA is a beacon of hope to millions because they failed. Our enemies are being destroyed because they failed.

 

Thank God they failed and may God assure they fail forever.

 

Not only are you an asshole, but you're a lunatic and an idiot.

What the fuck is wrong with you people? Outside of being factually incorrect, you seem to have this idea that your fellow Americans are playing for a different team simply because they disagree with YOUR way of doing things. That the simple act of having a different opinion than you means that they HATE AMERICA and they WANT TO SEE AMERICA FAIL. 

 

 

 

You said you where ignoring me..

 

SO DO IT.

Nah. Decided you're more fun to kick around and point out how everything you post is a complete travesty. Besides, I get subjected to your lunacy when people quote it anyway, so I might as well  just rip it firsthand.

Originally posted by murdera2k6

Sorry im writing this so late, i literally just got free...

Firstly, the first thing to note about the pakistani talbian is that they were trained by the army about 10 years ago, they were initially supportive of the government cause (and that of America), so the army knows the taliban very well. I was told a few weeks ago by an army official that they could destroy the taliban any time they wanted but the problem is that they don't want to because it is like killing your own brother. It is pakistani people fighting pakistani people, which is not what anyone wants and it's even worse that not tso long ago they were working side by side. Recently this has begun to change slowly but still the soldiers themselves don't want to fight.

Secondly, it's important to note that the public was not against the taliban until recent years and now they have turned against in them in the wake of several bombings, but before this they did not like the ruling government (military dictatorship who was a sellout in the eyes of the pakistani people) and so they sided with Taliban. But like I said this has changed and the people are now supporting the government BUT again it's important to note thtat the curent governments popularity has dropped so heavily that unless the party changes it's leader (Asif ZardarI) they are likely to be finished and probably never recover. this decline in popularity is mainly attributed by fake promises by the president and the fact that the president has sold pakistan out to america for money. The new american army compound being built in Islamabad (the capital) has caused widespread controversy, no one in pakistan is for it but the president was paid enough and so he let it through. Why is this important? Because the government needs the people on side and the people are turning against them, even worse the Army is turning against the government especially since the Kerry-Lugar Bill was introduced. This bill was basically introduced by Senator Kerry, it's provisions in shell are; we'll provide pakistan with more money if we gain greater control over the way the war on terror is run, this includes APPOINTING THE HEAD OF THE PAKISTANI ARMY. This is the most important part, this part has caused a split to occur between the state and the army, if this bill is passed i would not be suprised if there was a military coup after that. The Army is already on breaking point with continuing attacks from the Taliban but what has enraged them the most is the american drone attacks, had the army had it's way it would waded into afghanistan and started tof ire on american troops, that is the level of hatred they are causing because so many innocent pakistanis are being killed.

But what is going for America is the fact that the Taliban is becoming less and less popular day by day as attacks continue but they were often seen as the force which was fighting off the EVIL america, which is true because America was seen as evil due to the drone attacks it continued and might add WAS ADVOCATED BY OBAMA! So despite Obama's Islamic "connections" he's not the most popular guy in pakistan, furthermore he's generally seen as a YES man in most of the muslim world, all talk and no action.

On a more general point, people often worry about nuclear weapons falling into the hands fo terrorists, this is never going to happen! a) the terrorsits are no where near strong enough and b) they would be stopped by the army, the army would simply enforce marshal law and they be completely destroyed.

Thirdly, fighting the Taliban is not as easy as you might think, this is not an organised army with army gear, they look pakistani, act pakistani and they ARE pakistani. Now tell me in a busy market street full of asians in similar clothing how do you tell whose the terrorist? They all look alike, so when you see on the news army compound attacked or whatever don;t blame the lack of security, becuase security is there but it is just impossible to figure out who is the terrorist and who is the civilian. I often liken the taliban to the Vietcong because it is a close likeness but i would say these guys are more deadly, because they the drive and more importantly they have the cash. They sell drugs through pakistan which is often exported to western countries around the world through some way or another. You must also note about the current offensive is that those areas are not easy to spot the enemey from, the previous offensive in the SWAT Valley was much easier because the SWAT Valley is simply one massive valley and you know the enemy has to be somewhere inside, (by the way SWAT is a beautiful place, if the war is over and it is safe to go, I would strongly recommend people to go, absolutely amazing, i went there before all this started with the family) but the offensive in Waziristan is nowhere near as simple, it is nigh on impossible tospot the enemy from a plne or a helicopter because they are so well hidden and they can shoot you down without you even knowing it...Not pretty my friends....

I just want to add, I do not like the Taliban, in fact i hate them because they hate me, if I was to go to them they would kill me because I 'deviate' from religion, I think some of you may know about Sufism, but for those who don't it is a certain sect of Islam which is the more peacful side and away from the more fundamental Taliban, (and if you haven't guessed I'm sufi :) You can fill them in for me Fisher :P)

Anyway sorry for any mistakes, i'm typing this at 01:53 am GMT, I can't be bothered to spell check...and sorry again for posting this so late. thanks. There is some more stuff i'll add later but this will do for now :)

 Edit: Sorry I forgot to add, The full provisions of the Kerry-Lugar Bill.

Thank you for taking the time to provide us with a better insight to what is going on there. I can understand the frustration of the people, our government has NO right in appointing the head of the Pakistan army. It is absurd that they think they do have this right at all.  My understanding of the fighting style of the Taliban is pretty much what I had already heard,  guerrilla  style warfare, anything goes,  taking opportunity when it arrives. 

I understand that it is our meddling in the affairs of other nations that has caused the "rift" between the United states and the populations of many nations. I do not approve of this meddling, and do not see it in the best interests of our people, or the people of those nations. I do not believe this meddling to ever have a good outcome for us, and feel that people would respect the US more if we were straightforward and honest with the peoples of other nations, rather than always saying one thing and doing another.

  I honestly feel that the US is just trying to prime all the nations to get them hooked on " consumerism" so they can control the masses and the global economy and do not care whether or not those countries want this or not. That was never meant to be the role of our government, and  if our government was doing it's job properly these things would have never happened in the first place.

Shorter zzvicezz: Left left left hate america left left left hate america left left left.

Get new material.

Yeah I guess even one person dead in war isn't a travesty. Explain that to their family and friends.

I have a lot more compassion for my fellow human being than to let them waste what short life they have on someone else agenda.

Edit: Can't find sources now. Will later.

Originally posted by zzvicezz

How many civilians have died in Afghanistan and Iraq?

..as a result of warfare in those two nation 2001-as close to present as reported.

 

That was the subject being addressed.

 

Why don't you go ignore me like you said you would.

See if you can make it past 2 days this time....

Someone's desperate to be ignored. Interesting.

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by xanphia

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Pakistan has been a good ally of the USA from the start in this.

 We overthrew Saddam Hussein and he was hung for Crimes Against Humanity. We defeated al Qaeda and their insurgent friends in Iraq. WE WON IRAQ. One of the great victories this nation has achieved in its history.

 Now onward to Victory in Afghanistan and wherever else the enemy may reside.

 

 ..and to hell with the leftist liars in this nation who are as much a threat to our troops as the al Qaeda terrorist they face on the battlefield is had we listened to them in 2005 the enemy would be in control of large parts of Iraq and MILLIONS of people would be dead.

 

 

 

/////

As for Obama..its been a damn month!..DECIDE what plan for VICTORY you are going to chose!...Quit dicking around!

VICTORY Obama..if you don't believe in it then get the hell out of the WH so someone who does can lead this great nation.

 

 

 

 

Yeah you leftist liars. Watch out.

***American people are tired of seeing defeatists in this nation undermine our troops and peddling lines that have no basis in reality**

 

Dude, there already are millions dead from both wars.

 

***no there is not****

 

 

I'm really not quite sure what we are doing anymore in Iraq or Afghanistan. Can we just bring our men and women home already? This became a hassle years ago.

 

****We won in Iraq and are drawing down after the Victory there. Bush ignored the Democrat/Leftist defeatists and supported the Generals to win that Victory..or Iraq would be a hell on earth for those the left wanted to abandon....

 

We are fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan until we WIN****

 

 

Pakistan may have said they were good allies, but up until now we've had to pressure them to attack the Taliban strongholds near their borders.

 

****they launched numerous offensives up until about 2007/2008 when they attempted a peace deal..it fell apart when the Taliban launched a major offenive back January 2009. Which the Pakistanis first repulsed then destroyed.

Now as they have made clear there will be no peace agreement.***********

 

The left in this nation since 9/11 has done nothing but try to undermine our troops and cause the USA to fail. Millions are alive today because they failed. USA is a beacon of hope to millions because they failed. Our enemies are being destroyed because they failed.

 

Thank God they failed and may God assure they fail forever.

 

While I have to say that your outburst is quite hilarious, it's also quite incorrect.

The USA is a beacon to hope? I'm going to assume you're refering to ignorant american patriots because the outside world certainly doesn't see the US as a beacon of hope,rather a country that invades other countries and kills its population for no good reason,

You remember that man that threw his shoe to President Bush? That man is now considered to be a hero not just in iraq, but in other middle eastern countries as well.

The US won Iraq? is this a joke? Iraq is a freaking mess. The US has killed more Iraq citizens than Sadam Hoessein would have and Al Qaeda is still alive and so is Osama Bin Laden.

Yes you hate the USA we all know this.

Yes Iraq is a sucees and a victory..sorry you didn't get to abandon millions to terrorists and blame the USA for it.

Better luck next time.

 

Yes because if you're not a blind US patriot, you must hate the US. I wonder what loops of logic you had to jump through to come to that conclussion.

Abandon millions to terrorist? Don't make me laugh. What were they going to kill them with? The imaginary WMDs?

 

Oh please every goddamn thing anyone brings up you come out slamming the USA and bad mouthing the USA.

..and to top it off you're not even an American.

If you actually paid attention to my posts, you'd know that isn't the truth.

Then again you're a far right winger. You're not interested in the truth, only ignorance and blind patriotism.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by xanphia

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Pakistan has been a good ally of the USA from the start in this.

 We overthrew Saddam Hussein and he was hung for Crimes Against Humanity. We defeated al Qaeda and their insurgent friends in Iraq. WE WON IRAQ. One of the great victories this nation has achieved in its history.

 Now onward to Victory in Afghanistan and wherever else the enemy may reside.

 

 ..and to hell with the leftist liars in this nation who are as much a threat to our troops as the al Qaeda terrorist they face on the battlefield is had we listened to them in 2005 the enemy would be in control of large parts of Iraq and MILLIONS of people would be dead.

 

 

 

/////

As for Obama..its been a damn month!..DECIDE what plan for VICTORY you are going to chose!...Quit dicking around!

VICTORY Obama..if you don't believe in it then get the hell out of the WH so someone who does can lead this great nation.

 

 

 

 

Yeah you leftist liars. Watch out.

***American people are tired of seeing defeatists in this nation undermine our troops and peddling lines that have no basis in reality**

 

Dude, there already are millions dead from both wars.

 

***no there is not****

 

 

I'm really not quite sure what we are doing anymore in Iraq or Afghanistan. Can we just bring our men and women home already? This became a hassle years ago.

 

****We won in Iraq and are drawing down after the Victory there. Bush ignored the Democrat/Leftist defeatists and supported the Generals to win that Victory..or Iraq would be a hell on earth for those the left wanted to abandon....

 

We are fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan until we WIN****

 

 

Pakistan may have said they were good allies, but up until now we've had to pressure them to attack the Taliban strongholds near their borders.

 

****they launched numerous offensives up until about 2007/2008 when they attempted a peace deal..it fell apart when the Taliban launched a major offenive back January 2009. Which the Pakistanis first repulsed then destroyed.

Now as they have made clear there will be no peace agreement.***********

 

The left in this nation since 9/11 has done nothing but try to undermine our troops and cause the USA to fail. Millions are alive today because they failed. USA is a beacon of hope to millions because they failed. Our enemies are being destroyed because they failed.

 

Thank God they failed and may God assure they fail forever.

 

While I have to say that your outburst is quite hilarious, it's also quite incorrect.

The USA is a beacon to hope? I'm going to assume you're refering to ignorant american patriots because the outside world certainly doesn't see the US as a beacon of hope,rather a country that invades other countries and kills its population for no good reason,

You remember that man that threw his shoe to President Bush? That man is now considered to be a hero not just in iraq, but in other middle eastern countries as well.

The US won Iraq? is this a joke? Iraq is a freaking mess. The US has killed more Iraq citizens than Sadam Hoessein would have and Al Qaeda is still alive and so is Osama Bin Laden.

Yes you hate the USA we all know this.

Yes Iraq is a sucees and a victory..sorry you didn't get to abandon millions to terrorists and blame the USA for it.

Better luck next time.

 

Yes because if you're not a blind US patriot, you must hate the US. I wonder what loops of logic you had to jump through to come to that conclussion.

Abandon millions to terrorist? Don't make me laugh. What were they going to kill them with? The imaginary WMDs?

 

Oh please every goddamn thing anyone brings up you come out slamming the USA and bad mouthing the USA.

..and to top it off you're not even an American.

 

If you actually paid attention to my posts, you'd know that isn't the truth.

Then again you're a far right winger. You're not interested in the truth, only ignorance and blind patriotism.

 

Gaemloading, I know we don't see eye-to-eye on a lot of things, but here is a suggestion, just put zzvicezz on ignore.    The guy just isn't worth the stress.   ^_^
 

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Yeah that's it. Must have been the other gameloading form the netherlands....

 

Anyone who has read to this point will make note that 3 posters clearly could not back themselves up and instead relied on totally made up BS/Far Left smut site nonsense/...........and/or tried to start some lil arguments.

 

I made two main points.

 

1. They(The Left/far Left/"Progressive") lie about the realities of Iraq(well everything else usually to.) . I provided numbers they couldn't refute...so they fell back on the usual routines.. Specifically in this case by highlighting the ABSURD numbers one of them tried to pull.

 

2. I said the Left here lies and uh huh's without thought, knowingly lying about fact in order to mislead with the belief that the wil be able to get away with it.

 

Both point where more then adequately proven.

 

 .............

 

Anyway good luck to our Pakistani Allies in their offensive. Hope they kill alot of the enemy and destroy his means to continue waging any meaningful level of warfare on this front in the War.

T o take a page from a time gone by...

"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. . . . You ask,
what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea, and air. War with
all our might and with all the strength God has given us, and to wage war
against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark and lamentable
catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I
can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs - Victory in
spite of all terrors - Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for
without victory there is no survival."

 

God Bless the USA  our soldiers and our Allies soldiers in this Great Crusade to rid the world of the modern day monstrous tyranny of our enemies.

 

 

With all of your flag waving and and your pseudo-patriotic rhetoric, I have one question for you...... Did you serve?  Did you put your ass on the line?  If you haven't, then you really need to stop talking.  You know nothing of meaningful warfare and the statements you make are a disgrace to those that have served or died serving.  The fact that you bring religion into this discussion and talk of the "Great Crusade" tells me that you are truly clueless.  Please show some respect and STFU. 

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Originally posted by stevebmbsqd

Originally posted by zzvicezz

Yeah that's it. Must have been the other gameloading form the netherlands....

 

Anyone who has read to this point will make note that 3 posters clearly could not back themselves up and instead relied on totally made up BS/Far Left smut site nonsense/...........and/or tried to start some lil arguments.

 

I made two main points.

 

1. They(The Left/far Left/"Progressive") lie about the realities of Iraq(well everything else usually to.) . I provided numbers they couldn't refute...so they fell back on the usual routines.. Specifically in this case by highlighting the ABSURD numbers one of them tried to pull.

 

2. I said the Left here lies and uh huh's without thought, knowingly lying about fact in order to mislead with the belief that the wil be able to get away with it.

 

Both point where more then adequately proven.

 

 .............

 

Anyway good luck to our Pakistani Allies in their offensive. Hope they kill alot of the enemy and destroy his means to continue waging any meaningful level of warfare on this front in the War.

T o take a page from a time gone by...

"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat. . . . You ask,
what is our policy? I say it is to wage war by land, sea, and air. War with
all our might and with all the strength God has given us, and to wage war
against a monstrous tyranny never surpassed in the dark and lamentable
catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I
can answer in one word. It is victory. Victory at all costs - Victory in
spite of all terrors - Victory, however long and hard the road may be, for
without victory there is no survival."

 

God Bless the USA  our soldiers and our Allies soldiers in this Great Crusade to rid the world of the modern day monstrous tyranny of our enemies.

 

 

 

With all of your flag waving and and your pseudo-patriotic rhetoric, I have one question for you...... Did you serve?  Did you put your ass on the line?  If you haven't, then you really need to stop talking.  You know nothing of meaningful warfare and the statements you make are a disgrace to those that have served or died serving.  The fact that you bring religion into this discussion and talk of the "Great Crusade" tells me that you are truly clueless.  Please show some respect and STFU. 

 

Yes. 18 years ago. Army. No I did not go to the Gulf that was a few months prior ..I recall the USSR was doing something in the Baltic States

Did I go to war? No. All I did was play infantry..zzzzz. I served with many who did go to war/peacekeeping though.  Doesn't matter anyway. Doesn't mean a thing.

Supporting those today in their war is disgraceful??....but making up numbers to defame them isn't??

The religion problem is yours. Make it a secular crusade if you wish....who cares.

Secular crusade,ROFL..funny stuff there.

I'm just going to say more kick ass is coming for the mid-east  and Obama is going to do what he is told to do no matter what the liberals says.Were about to unleash Israel soon.