Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

True MMO's are being faded out to more single-player content like console games to entice the majority, which are the casual crowd. Although I personally don't know WHY they are called the casual crowd really. Even hard core players such as myself who play nearly everyday are still casual in the end. As I said, I play nearly everyday when I am into an MMO, which hasn't been many recently with the lack of anything good on the market.....but I may only play an hour one day, maybe 2 or 3 hours the next. Sometimes I only log on for a few minutes to see how things I have for sale are doing. I have a life outside of the game believe it or not.

 

Yes, I am addicted to gaming, I'll be the first to admit it...but I know my obligations outside of gaming are more important and no matter how much I itch to play, those things come first. But I am on every minute I can be. So I consider my self hard core as far as a player's drive to play is concerned, but casual in my actual play due to outside responsibilities...if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

 

But anyway, the MMO world is leaning more towards single player content because that is what the majority seem to want. making it (to me anyways) LESS like a true MMO. Sure, MMO's are massive multi-player, but as an old school player, that includes player to player interaction, etc. I like to solo too, but I like to interact with others and make in-game friends and quest and adventure with them too. Just little of that actually going on in today's MMO's. I feel this is from a combination of player's soloing more and  not feeling the need to group or interact, and poor grouping design by companies. Grouping should have slightly better benefits than soloing. Maybe not better xp since your splitting it with others (Benefit there is it's faster xp if divided right), but  better loot for sure.

 

Not to mention that if people would slow down and not be in such a hurry to get to end-game, and get to know their classes better, as well as get to know how OTHER classes work so they can compliment them in combat, maybe grouping would be more worth it. Making MMO's a rat race breeds incompetence and frustration due to PUG's of people not knowing what they are doing or player's that ninja what they need and leaving the rest of the group stranded. It happens in Guilds too, hence why on most servers their is only 3 or 4 huge guilds usually and the rest are guild fodder of guild jumpers looking for the guild that will get them to the top quickest.

 

My opinion at least.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously, as well as read through a long winded post, you should may want to consider refraining from using the term "true MMO", because that's a pretty clear clue that whatever follows is going to be nothing but a load of garbage. 

I like how he capitalized TRUE MMO  - and then way down at the bottom said "in my opinion".  Which basically negated the "TRUE MMO" part since what is a True MMO  varies between each player and their wants and needs.  Also in the end  all of these posts are pretty much OUR opinions, and we all know about opinions - every one has one.

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

True MMO's are being faded out to more single-player content like console games to entice the majority, which are the casual crowd. Although I personally don't know WHY they are called the casual crowd really. Even hard core players such as myself who play nearly everyday are still casual in the end. As I said, I play nearly everyday when I am into an MMO, which hasn't been many recently with the lack of anything good on the market.....but I may only play an hour one day, maybe 2 or 3 hours the next. Sometimes I only log on for a few minutes to see how things I have for sale are doing. I have a life outside of the game believe it or not.

 

Yes, I am addicted to gaming, I'll be the first to admit it...but I know my obligations outside of gaming are more important and no matter how much I itch to play, those things come first. But I am on every minute I can be. So I consider my self hard core as far as a player's drive to play is concerned, but casual in my actual play due to outside responsibilities...if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

 

But anyway, the MMO world is leaning more towards single player content because that is what the majority seem to want. making it (to me anyways) LESS like a true MMO. Sure, MMO's are massive multi-player, but as an old school player, that includes player to player interaction, etc. I like to solo too, but I like to interact with others and make in-game friends and quest and adventure with them too. Just little of that actually going on in today's MMO's. I feel this is from a combination of player's soloing more and  not feeling the need to group or interact, and poor grouping design by companies. Grouping should have slightly better benefits than soloing. Maybe not better xp since your splitting it with others (Benefit there is it's faster xp if divided right), but  better loot for sure.

 

Not to mention that if people would slow down and not be in such a hurry to get to end-game, and get to know their classes better, as well as get to know how OTHER classes work so they can compliment them in combat, maybe grouping would be more worth it. Making MMO's a rat race breeds incompetence and frustration due to PUG's of people not knowing what they are doing or player's that ninja what they need and leaving the rest of the group stranded. It happens in Guilds too, hence why on most servers their is only 3 or 4 huge guilds usually and the rest are guild fodder of guild jumpers looking for the guild that will get them to the top quickest.

 

My opinion at least.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously, as well as read through a long winded post, you should may want to consider refraining from using the term "true MMO", because that's a pretty clear clue that whatever follows is going to be nothing but a load of garbage. 

 

I like how he capitalized TRUE MMO  - and then way down at the bottom said "in my opinion".  Which basically negated the "TRUE MMO" part since what is a True MMO  varies between each player and their wants and needs.  Also in the end  all of these posts are pretty much OUR opinions, and we all know about opinions - every one has one.

Man, I'm so glad their are so many self righteous people here without fault that can tell what someone is thinking or tell them when they are wrong and how they are right. Where would we be without you guys. I put opinion at the end because I thought about it AFTER I wrote my OPINION and thoughts on the subject...knowing someone like you and others would just look for reasons to knit-picked instead of thinking about the meat of the post, how the wording is meant and putting forth intelligent rebuttals.

This is why dev's don't listen to the MMO forum communities anymore. They are too interested in flaming one another and imposing their own will and ideas as the word than working together towards a common goal of effective argument and solutions to the problems found in the genre.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

I think you meant to say "the days of Everquest," unless you feel Ultima Online is not a "true MMO."

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

This is why dev's don't listen to the MMO forum communities anymore. They are too interested in flaming one another and imposing their own will and ideas as the word than working together towards a common goal of effective argument and solutions to the problems found in the genre.

Devs don't listen to MMO forum communities because they are not representative of the average gamer. Never have been, never will be. Happy people game, unhappy people post.

Your post was opinion presented as "fact". That doesn't go down well here.

Originally posted by LynxJSA

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

I think you meant to say "the days of Everquest," unless you feel Ultima Online is not a "true MMO."

Never played Ultima Online, so I don't know and can't comment on it. However, my roommate played UO and just told me that he feels even EQ is what an MMO should be like more so than what is out now.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

True MMO's are being faded out to more single-player content like console games to entice the majority, which are the casual crowd. Although I personally don't know WHY they are called the casual crowd really. Even hard core players such as myself who play nearly everyday are still casual in the end. As I said, I play nearly everyday when I am into an MMO, which hasn't been many recently with the lack of anything good on the market.....but I may only play an hour one day, maybe 2 or 3 hours the next. Sometimes I only log on for a few minutes to see how things I have for sale are doing. I have a life outside of the game believe it or not.

 

Yes, I am addicted to gaming, I'll be the first to admit it...but I know my obligations outside of gaming are more important and no matter how much I itch to play, those things come first. But I am on every minute I can be. So I consider my self hard core as far as a player's drive to play is concerned, but casual in my actual play due to outside responsibilities...if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

 

But anyway, the MMO world is leaning more towards single player content because that is what the majority seem to want. making it (to me anyways) LESS like a true MMO. Sure, MMO's are massive multi-player, but as an old school player, that includes player to player interaction, etc. I like to solo too, but I like to interact with others and make in-game friends and quest and adventure with them too. Just little of that actually going on in today's MMO's. I feel this is from a combination of player's soloing more and  not feeling the need to group or interact, and poor grouping design by companies. Grouping should have slightly better benefits than soloing. Maybe not better xp since your splitting it with others (Benefit there is it's faster xp if divided right), but  better loot for sure.

 

Not to mention that if people would slow down and not be in such a hurry to get to end-game, and get to know their classes better, as well as get to know how OTHER classes work so they can compliment them in combat, maybe grouping would be more worth it. Making MMO's a rat race breeds incompetence and frustration due to PUG's of people not knowing what they are doing or player's that ninja what they need and leaving the rest of the group stranded. It happens in Guilds too, hence why on most servers their is only 3 or 4 huge guilds usually and the rest are guild fodder of guild jumpers looking for the guild that will get them to the top quickest.

 

My opinion at least.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously, as well as read through a long winded post, you should may want to consider refraining from using the term "true MMO", because that's a pretty clear clue that whatever follows is going to be nothing but a load of garbage. 

 

I like how he capitalized TRUE MMO  - and then way down at the bottom said "in my opinion".  Which basically negated the "TRUE MMO" part since what is a True MMO  varies between each player and their wants and needs.  Also in the end  all of these posts are pretty much OUR opinions, and we all know about opinions - every one has one.

Man, I'm so glad their are so many self righteous people here without fault that can tell what someone is thinking or tell them when they are wrong and how they are right. Where would we be without you guys. I put opinion at the end because I thought about it AFTER I wrote my OPINION and thoughts on the subject...knowing someone like you and others would just look for reasons to knit-picked instead of thinking about the meat of the post, how the wording is meant and putting forth intelligent rebuttals.

 

This is why dev's don't listen to the MMO forum communities anymore. They are too interested in flaming one another and imposing their own will and ideas as the word than working together towards a common goal of effective argument and solutions to the problems found in the genre.

Didn't claim to know your thoughts, just commented on the structure of your post.   It seems you are the sefl-rightious one, bud.
 

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by elderotter

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

True MMO's are being faded out to more single-player content like console games to entice the majority, which are the casual crowd. Although I personally don't know WHY they are called the casual crowd really. Even hard core players such as myself who play nearly everyday are still casual in the end. As I said, I play nearly everyday when I am into an MMO, which hasn't been many recently with the lack of anything good on the market.....but I may only play an hour one day, maybe 2 or 3 hours the next. Sometimes I only log on for a few minutes to see how things I have for sale are doing. I have a life outside of the game believe it or not.

 

Yes, I am addicted to gaming, I'll be the first to admit it...but I know my obligations outside of gaming are more important and no matter how much I itch to play, those things come first. But I am on every minute I can be. So I consider my self hard core as far as a player's drive to play is concerned, but casual in my actual play due to outside responsibilities...if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

 

But anyway, the MMO world is leaning more towards single player content because that is what the majority seem to want. making it (to me anyways) LESS like a true MMO. Sure, MMO's are massive multi-player, but as an old school player, that includes player to player interaction, etc. I like to solo too, but I like to interact with others and make in-game friends and quest and adventure with them too. Just little of that actually going on in today's MMO's. I feel this is from a combination of player's soloing more and  not feeling the need to group or interact, and poor grouping design by companies. Grouping should have slightly better benefits than soloing. Maybe not better xp since your splitting it with others (Benefit there is it's faster xp if divided right), but  better loot for sure.

 

Not to mention that if people would slow down and not be in such a hurry to get to end-game, and get to know their classes better, as well as get to know how OTHER classes work so they can compliment them in combat, maybe grouping would be more worth it. Making MMO's a rat race breeds incompetence and frustration due to PUG's of people not knowing what they are doing or player's that ninja what they need and leaving the rest of the group stranded. It happens in Guilds too, hence why on most servers their is only 3 or 4 huge guilds usually and the rest are guild fodder of guild jumpers looking for the guild that will get them to the top quickest.

 

My opinion at least.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously, as well as read through a long winded post, you should may want to consider refraining from using the term "true MMO", because that's a pretty clear clue that whatever follows is going to be nothing but a load of garbage. 

 

I like how he capitalized TRUE MMO  - and then way down at the bottom said "in my opinion".  Which basically negated the "TRUE MMO" part since what is a True MMO  varies between each player and their wants and needs.  Also in the end  all of these posts are pretty much OUR opinions, and we all know about opinions - every one has one.

Man, I'm so glad their are so many self righteous people here without fault that can tell what someone is thinking or tell them when they are wrong and how they are right. Where would we be without you guys. I put opinion at the end because I thought about it AFTER I wrote my OPINION and thoughts on the subject...knowing someone like you and others would just look for reasons to knit-picked instead of thinking about the meat of the post, how the wording is meant and putting forth intelligent rebuttals.

 

This is why dev's don't listen to the MMO forum communities anymore. They are too interested in flaming one another and imposing their own will and ideas as the word than working together towards a common goal of effective argument and solutions to the problems found in the genre.

Didn't claim to know your thoughts, just commented on the structure of your post.   It seems you are the sefl-rightious one, bud.
 

Are you an english professor then? Comment on my content, not the structuring of it. As I said, it is harder to tell a person's demeanor and/or true meaning of a post compared to if we sat down face to face and discussed this so you could see that I mean it in a conversational way where I actually listen to others thoughts and opinions and comment accordingly.

Goat, the term "true MMORPG" is guaranteed to degenerate any discussion into useless semantics or worse.  Hopefully the last ~6 posts in this thread are sufficient for you to realize this.

So if you want to lead the discussion to interesting and useful places, avoid using the term.

The others aren't less guilty (nor am I, by continuing to harp on the same theme,) but the fact remains that you led us all here by using the term. :P

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

This is why dev's don't listen to the MMO forum communities anymore. They are too interested in flaming one another and imposing their own will and ideas as the word than working together towards a common goal of effective argument and solutions to the problems found in the genre.

Devs don't listen to MMO forum communities because they are not representative of the average gamer. Never have been, never will be. Happy people game, unhappy people post.

Your post was opinion presented as "fact". That doesn't go down well here.

Jesus you people are amazing.

I guess I should post a disclaimer that states it is opinion  right at the beginning of the post so the forum police don't chastise you for it. Although I have done that before and they still knit pick with comments like "well it doesn't sound like opinion, but as if you are stating facts due to the structure of it. Where is the proof?", etc. Did I SAY it was fact anywhere in the post? I'm not posting what I think EVERYONE thinks, just myself through personal opinion and observation. I may be wrong in some areas, but tell me so and why in YOUR opinion instead of simply heading straight to the gallows for me is all I'm saying.

I'd be playing if their were a game worth playing, so I come here to see what is new or coming down the road, as well as to chat with other gamer's about all sort's of stuff. But anymore, the site is just full of trolls, flamers, and people who apparently like to play post PvP. I'm done with it. I'll respond to anyone who wants to have an adult conversation about the threads in question or my posts in a critical sense based on the content of it as far as gaming is concerned. I'd be happy to discuss it positive or negative. =)

But responding to posts due to these other ridiculous and unintended/unintentional  reasons is done. Sorry I dared say "T___ MMO", didn't know it was an offensive term...somehow.

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

Jesus you people are amazing.

I guess I should post a disclaimer that states it is opinion  right at the beginning of the post so the forum police don't chastise you for it. Although I have done that before and they still knit pick with comments like "well it doesn't sound like opinion, but as if you are stating facts due to the structure of it. Where is the proof?", etc. Did I SAY it was fact anywhere in the post? I'm not posting what I think EVERYONE thinks, just myself through personal opinion and observation. I may be wrong in some areas, but tell me so and why in YOUR opinion instead of simply heading straight to the gallows for me is all I'm saying.

I'd be playing if their were a game worth playing, so I come here to see what is new or coming down the road, as well as to chat with other gamer's about all sort's of stuff. But anymore, the site is just full of trolls, flamers, and people who apparently like to play post PvP. I'm done with it. I'll respond to anyone who wants to have an adult conversation about the threads in question or my posts in a critical sense based on the content of it as far as gaming is concerned. I'd be happy to discuss it positive or negative. =)

But responding to posts due to these other ridiculous and unintended/unintentional  reasons is done. Sorry I dared say "T___ MMO", didn't know it was an offensive term...somehow.

No, you should just avoid presenting subjective opinions as fact.

It immediately puts you in an adversarial position.

You're not saying "this is my opinion".
You're saying "this is the RIGHT opinion".

Complaining about people reacting in an adversarial manner to an adversarial post doesn't help either.

And yes, you did say. "Let's just face facts".

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

Jesus you people are amazing.

I guess I should post a disclaimer that states it is opinion  right at the beginning of the post so the forum police don't chastise you for it. Although I have done that before and they still knit pick with comments like "well it doesn't sound like opinion, but as if you are stating facts due to the structure of it. Where is the proof?", etc. Did I SAY it was fact anywhere in the post? I'm not posting what I think EVERYONE thinks, just myself through personal opinion and observation. I may be wrong in some areas, but tell me so and why in YOUR opinion instead of simply heading straight to the gallows for me is all I'm saying.

I'd be playing if their were a game worth playing, so I come here to see what is new or coming down the road, as well as to chat with other gamer's about all sort's of stuff. But anymore, the site is just full of trolls, flamers, and people who apparently like to play post PvP. I'm done with it. I'll respond to anyone who wants to have an adult conversation about the threads in question or my posts in a critical sense based on the content of it as far as gaming is concerned. I'd be happy to discuss it positive or negative. =)

But responding to posts due to these other ridiculous and unintended/unintentional  reasons is done. Sorry I dared say "T___ MMO", didn't know it was an offensive term...somehow.

No, you should just avoid presenting subjective opinions as fact.

It immediately puts you in an adversarial position.

You're not saying "this is my opinion".
You're saying "this is the RIGHT opinion".

Complaining about people reacting in an adversarial manner to an adversarial post doesn't help either.

And yes, you did say. "Let's just face facts".

Yes, as in face the facts that the days of MMO's like EQ and other post-WoW MMO's are gone, making way for more single player, fast-paced friendly MMO content.  That is as far as that was to go. I guess I made the mistake of not saying immediately AFTER that, "Now, the REST is general opinion and personal observation that possibly..." so some wouldn't take the thread off in another tangent simply to pick at it. The rest of the post is mere opinion in general, again, from personal experience through dozens of MMO's and years of personal play.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

True MMO's are being faded out to more single-player content like console games to entice the majority, which are the casual crowd. Although I personally don't know WHY they are called the casual crowd really. Even hard core players such as myself who play nearly everyday are still casual in the end. As I said, I play nearly everyday when I am into an MMO, which hasn't been many recently with the lack of anything good on the market.....but I may only play an hour one day, maybe 2 or 3 hours the next. Sometimes I only log on for a few minutes to see how things I have for sale are doing. I have a life outside of the game believe it or not.

 

Yes, I am addicted to gaming, I'll be the first to admit it...but I know my obligations outside of gaming are more important and no matter how much I itch to play, those things come first. But I am on every minute I can be. So I consider my self hard core as far as a player's drive to play is concerned, but casual in my actual play due to outside responsibilities...if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

 

But anyway, the MMO world is leaning more towards single player content because that is what the majority seem to want. making it (to me anyways) LESS like a true MMO. Sure, MMO's are massive multi-player, but as an old school player, that includes player to player interaction, etc. I like to solo too, but I like to interact with others and make in-game friends and quest and adventure with them too. Just little of that actually going on in today's MMO's. I feel this is from a combination of player's soloing more and  not feeling the need to group or interact, and poor grouping design by companies. Grouping should have slightly better benefits than soloing. Maybe not better xp since your splitting it with others (Benefit there is it's faster xp if divided right), but  better loot for sure.

 

Not to mention that if people would slow down and not be in such a hurry to get to end-game, and get to know their classes better, as well as get to know how OTHER classes work so they can compliment them in combat, maybe grouping would be more worth it. Making MMO's a rat race breeds incompetence and frustration due to PUG's of people not knowing what they are doing or player's that ninja what they need and leaving the rest of the group stranded. It happens in Guilds too, hence why on most servers their is only 3 or 4 huge guilds usually and the rest are guild fodder of guild jumpers looking for the guild that will get them to the top quickest.

 

My opinion at least.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously, as well as read through a long winded post, you should may want to consider refraining from using the term "true MMO", because that's a pretty clear clue that whatever follows is going to be nothing but a load of garbage. 

 Not trying to be nasty here, want to really know..but have you played an MMO post-WoW? THAT is what I mean by true MMO. One that exhibits the passion put into making a rich storyline, meaningful quests with good back stories for them, challenging game play, and truly open worlds. What separates them from console games that are fast paced, linear, and repetitive.

 

Again, not being nasty when I say this (Reading what someone says in a post may seem a different tone than what they mean when speaking to them face to face after all) read past that term and see what I am getting at before passing judgement.

You'd be better of just saying what you mean, rather than using a subjective term like "TRUE MMO", especially when everyone's idea of a "TRUE MMO" will be different.  The more enlightened forum goers will know that there's no such thing as a "True MMO".

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by madeux

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Let's just face facts...the days of TRUE MMO's, where it was as if you were IN a fantasy book because the world was open, players and even NPC's interacted, the story and quest lines were deep and intricate, mobs were tough, death meant something, and leveling took awhile so you didn't get bored with the game in a month, or run out of content are over.

 

True MMO's are being faded out to more single-player content like console games to entice the majority, which are the casual crowd. Although I personally don't know WHY they are called the casual crowd really. Even hard core players such as myself who play nearly everyday are still casual in the end. As I said, I play nearly everyday when I am into an MMO, which hasn't been many recently with the lack of anything good on the market.....but I may only play an hour one day, maybe 2 or 3 hours the next. Sometimes I only log on for a few minutes to see how things I have for sale are doing. I have a life outside of the game believe it or not.

 

Yes, I am addicted to gaming, I'll be the first to admit it...but I know my obligations outside of gaming are more important and no matter how much I itch to play, those things come first. But I am on every minute I can be. So I consider my self hard core as far as a player's drive to play is concerned, but casual in my actual play due to outside responsibilities...if that makes sense to anyone but me lol.

 

But anyway, the MMO world is leaning more towards single player content because that is what the majority seem to want. making it (to me anyways) LESS like a true MMO. Sure, MMO's are massive multi-player, but as an old school player, that includes player to player interaction, etc. I like to solo too, but I like to interact with others and make in-game friends and quest and adventure with them too. Just little of that actually going on in today's MMO's. I feel this is from a combination of player's soloing more and  not feeling the need to group or interact, and poor grouping design by companies. Grouping should have slightly better benefits than soloing. Maybe not better xp since your splitting it with others (Benefit there is it's faster xp if divided right), but  better loot for sure.

 

Not to mention that if people would slow down and not be in such a hurry to get to end-game, and get to know their classes better, as well as get to know how OTHER classes work so they can compliment them in combat, maybe grouping would be more worth it. Making MMO's a rat race breeds incompetence and frustration due to PUG's of people not knowing what they are doing or player's that ninja what they need and leaving the rest of the group stranded. It happens in Guilds too, hence why on most servers their is only 3 or 4 huge guilds usually and the rest are guild fodder of guild jumpers looking for the guild that will get them to the top quickest.

 

My opinion at least.

 

If you want people to take your opinion seriously, as well as read through a long winded post, you should may want to consider refraining from using the term "true MMO", because that's a pretty clear clue that whatever follows is going to be nothing but a load of garbage. 

 Not trying to be nasty here, want to really know..but have you played an MMO post-WoW? THAT is what I mean by true MMO. One that exhibits the passion put into making a rich storyline, meaningful quests with good back stories for them, challenging game play, and truly open worlds. What separates them from console games that are fast paced, linear, and repetitive.

 

Again, not being nasty when I say this (Reading what someone says in a post may seem a different tone than what they mean when speaking to them face to face after all) read past that term and see what I am getting at before passing judgement.

You'd be better of just saying what you mean, rather than using a subjective term like "TRUE MMO", especially when everyone's idea of a "TRUE MMO" will be different.  The more enlightened forum goers will know that there's no such thing as a "True MMO".

I suppose so since there are way too many here who love to pick at poster's instead of genre issues, idea, and opinions presented. But at the same time, not really. Most in this thread would STILL find other things to pick at just for that sake of doing so.

Best way to derail a thread is to attack the way a post is presented, punctuated, or slanted  rather than address the content contained within.

Most everything written  in these forums is an opinion, very few facts ever rise to the surface so its a bit pointless to accuse someone of stating their opinions as facts.

Unless derailing the discussion is the point of course.

Neither side will ever agree on this issue, both sides feel they are "right".

But as long as people are having fun..... carrry on.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Best way to derail a thread is to attack the way a post is presented, punctuated, or slanted  rather than address the content contained within.

Most everything written  in these forums is an opinion, very few facts ever rise to the surface so its a bit pointless to accuse someone of stating their opinions as facts.

Unless derailing the discussion is the point of course.

Neither side will ever agree on this issue, both sides feel they are "right".

But as long as people are having fun..... carrry on.

 

LOL. I don't find this fun.

But I totally agree. I also don't think I am right all the time (And not saying you were saying this...just to confirm and stop another possible flame for nothing).  I like to discuss my MMO genre ideas and opinions, and listen (or read rather)  other people's ideas and opinions in turn. But I DON'T like when people come in here and pick and flame for wording that had unintentional meaning just to do so and ignore the original point of the thread or the poster in questions content that had genre relation enclosed.

Now can we PLEASE just get back on topic. Back to my OP, read it, BUT AS OPINION, general opinion. =)

 You can't get too attached to arguments or debates. They used to be means in which to test your ideas or better yourself. But nowadays, its all about winning, which usually means flames and fallacies.

All games should comply with both sides, and put in bonuses for teams but also a good bonus for solo efforts.

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Goatgod76 

This is why dev's don't listen to the MMO forum communities anymore. They are too interested in flaming one another and imposing their own will and ideas as the word than working together towards a common goal of effective argument and solutions to the problems found in the genre.

Devs don't listen to MMO forum communities because they are not representative of the average gamer. Never have been, never will be. Happy people game, unhappy people post.

Your post was opinion presented as "fact". That doesn't go down well here.

 

Jesus you people are amazing.

I guess I should post a disclaimer that states it is opinion  right at the beginning of the post so the forum police don't chastise you for it. Although I have done that before and they still knit pick with comments like "well it doesn't sound like opinion, but as if you are stating facts due to the structure of it. Where is the proof?", etc. Did I SAY it was fact anywhere in the post? I'm not posting what I think EVERYONE thinks, just myself through personal opinion and observation. I may be wrong in some areas, but tell me so and why in YOUR opinion instead of simply heading straight to the gallows for me is all I'm saying.

I'd be playing if their were a game worth playing, so I come here to see what is new or coming down the road, as well as to chat with other gamer's about all sort's of stuff. But anymore, the site is just full of trolls, flamers, and people who apparently like to play post PvP. I'm done with it. I'll respond to anyone who wants to have an adult conversation about the threads in question or my posts in a critical sense based on the content of it as far as gaming is concerned. I'd be happy to discuss it positive or negative. =)

 

But responding to posts due to these other ridiculous and unintended/unintentional  reasons is done. Sorry I dared say "T___ MMO", didn't know it was an offensive term...somehow.

how adult of you to spew like that.

I didn't read through all 18 pages of this thread.

But one problem is when someone tell me they want a good group content like Daoc of EQ, I don't know what they mean.  Since I never played both of this games.  And I'm sure many others too.

Originally posted by laokoko

I didn't read through all 18 pages of this thread.

But one problem is when someone tell me they want a good group content like Daoc of EQ, I don't know what they mean.  Since I never played both of this games.  And I'm sure many others too.

My views, below, remember, my views.

EQ is a game in which almost every mob can kill you unless you are a very soloable class, meaning a class with pets, or a very kiteable class.  With pet you need luck to survive.  With kiting you need patience.  I once soloed an even level mob for almost 2 minutes to kill him.  I never do it since.  2 min fight, 2 min resting with no screen to look at, as your screen is covered by your spell book when you med for mana.  No fun.

EQ is a game in which mobs usually come in pairs.  EQ is a game in which the good drops comes mostly from bosses deep inside instances, and instances are still common world, in which all teams see each other.  Any time a team gets wiped they run thru the instance to the exit, bringing an ever larger train of mobs following, killing everyone in the instance.

EQ is a game in which you can do practically nothing, but gain loots.  Loots comes from bosses.  There are no simple quests to get even a "green" loot.

EQ is a game in which level matters, and levelling is a huge evil task.  There are a few levels where xp requirement to get pass are doubled ... You need to grind endlessly, in a group, as you need to kill to get pathetically little xp, and you cannot kill anything solo worth 1 XP.

EQ is a game you must team.  Or you can forget about it.

DAoC is a game where you can barely solo, and with some classes you can comfortably solo, for xp.  I have been able to solo up to max level.  IF you group and grind some good instances, you can level up faster.  But solo to max is an option.

DAoC is a game where you focus on realm vs realm pvp, and you mostly RvR exclusively after max (50 at my times).  You can actually pvp all your way, after lvl 10.  In any case, you won't imagine soloing when you go RvR as a team of enemies will crush you like a bug.

DAoC is a game you must team up to RvR.  Yet its for fun, not for grinding, unlike EQ.

Hope this summarises it for you.