Originally posted by ctshame

 it seems like now a days players consider everything a grind. what happened to all the older games when players were jsut enjoying the game even when there was grind. it seems people have to high of standards and if your bored with the game then just quit instead of complaining of grind because eventually everything will be a grind because there wont be anything left to do.

Because the first time around it's new and exciting. But we're close to 10 years into the grind era, and MMO's simply haven't attempted enough to create that feeling again. New concepts aren't being developed or used. MMO's have become cookie cutter, in the same way FPS games have. It's time to deviate from the current pattern, and introduce a new archetype to break the mold of the past 10 years.

Originally posted by dethgar

 

Because the first time around it's new and exciting. But we're close to 10 years into the grind era, and MMO's simply haven't attempted enough to create that feeling again. New concepts aren't being developed or used. MMO's have become cookie cutter, in the same way FPS games have. It's time to deviate from the current pattern, and introduce a new archetype to break the mold of the past 10 years.

Couldnt agree more. MMO need evoloution, not resignation.  And especially in the field which MMO is 95% all about; killing mobs. Its basicly what you do in theese games, with a "holiday" in a Battleground or some pvp after you have killed enough mobs to actually be viable.  Basicly what the developers renews is all the things around the main thing; graphic, ui, customied appereances and suchs - yet they let the mobkilling mechanics continue out of the same boring road.

And besides; i dont think ppl just suddenly started to complain about grind. The grind in AIon really do feels more boring then the average mmo out there. AOC, War and WOW all have issues, but none of them had ppl complaining about the grind in same amount as ppl are about Aion.  Aion have alot off qualitys, and the grinding could have been even more monotone, but the important thing is, it could allso have been so much more. -Instead of making the combat slightly more fun then its presessors, it have ended up beeing slighlty more boring. Regression instead of progression.

Real life is a grind. I don't know how a game could be less of one in the long run. I mean, think about what you do each day...

Wake up. ((Status is rested, decreasing over time))
Eat ((Status is fed, decreasing over time))
Greet family / significant other ((increases happiness and boosts our social skill slightly... unless the roll is botched!))
And then... options!
Go to School - skill at ((insert course here)) increases.
Go to Work - skill at ((insert job here)) increases. Receive x dollars for your work.
Stay home and play games... ((nothing really increases, but stress is sure lower...))

Then we go home and go to sleep and it starts over, with the objective being receiving money, keeping our stats and skills in order, and repeating it all over again.

Okay, seriously, I know that there's a lot more to life than this and that my analogy was grossly oversimplified, but I'm just trying to make a basic point:

If quests, missions, and crafting in MMORPGs are a grind, then what else is there? The end objective of a game is to make your character better at whatever he, she, or it does. If your character is a swordswoman who also cooks, at some point, gosh darn it, you're going to have to swing that sword and bake some wily mandragora cakes to increase your skill unless you throw out anything relevant to reality at all.

I suppose the answer is diversity in the places you swing your sword, the things you swing it at, and the sort of things you're baking your cakes with. You can make things skill based or level based, quest based or fight based, or anywhere in between, but those basic actions still have to happen.

So, is the complaint that the environments and enemies are too redundant? Do you want more "useless" tasks or trade skills that don't directly pertain to your job to do?

Originally posted by Gorudu

I don't get it. Everyone gets so touchy when people say the word "grind". It's not that bad. I'm not saying the grind in Aion isn't that bad, I'm saying, get this: Grinding isn't that bad or hard to do. It's pretty much the same thing as doing any of the quests you would normally do in every other friggen MMO except without the number X bonus exp at the end. Oh friggen boy. I mean, even the fanboys freak out when other people call it a grind. I just don't get it. Seriously, just blast some techno music/rock music/not country or rap music and kill mobs. At least in Aion the character animations and models are pretty to watch...

For some it is just not a "comfort zone" myself included, I tend to get into the lore of the games I play I enjoy reading and completing quests and most of all it gives me something else to focus on as opposed to whatever random number I'm trying to get to in getting ultimately to the next level.  Now think of it that way reaching your next level is a goal and not the goal unless of course you are forced to grind mobs to get to that next level.

  What I think is a more telling question is why are some so bothered by the fact that some are opposed to the "grind", and I don't mean to caste blame of this your way but I think you have seen alot of the posts as well people seem to take objection with the fact that there is apparently a large part of the population who would like to have other things to do than mindlessly stand out in the woods and kill, adding quests should be one of the easiest things to do for an mmo so why so much resistance to people being given the option to avoid said grind, adding quests does not force anyone to do them for those who like to grind it should have no effect yet it still seems to bother them.

With all these justifications here, the simply truth of the matter is: the average gamer does not like to do the same OBVIOSULY (key word here) boring crap over and over. Keep in mind that the general population is stupid. Whether they are collecting 10 bear asses or 10 mystical waterdrops from the fountain of poon, it appears to be a diverse event. Also, to have XP come in in a big chunk, and to "Clear" certain zones of quests feels more like an accomplishment then just ONE MORE MONSTER - or a fraction of the XP bar.

Quests also emphasize exploring different regions of a map, while grinding can be in the same place for hours. However, repeatable quests appear as a grind, thats why a lot of people complain about how annoying dailies are in WoW. It isn't different everytime, its the same damn thing. How a majority of you posters here don't understand that absolutely astounds me. Then again, I did say the general population is stupid

To be honest i think it's the Warhammer Online Syndrome. Most people wanna lvl up in pvp, craft in pvp, loot in pvp, get AP in pvp. Grinding is part of Mmos and their patch that made LFG readable again made it much easier to find a group and enjoy some teamplay. EZ mode is not profitable.

Most casual players who wanna get to 50 in a month are wrong. What's the point enjoying a game when (and only when) you have achieved everything?

The longer you play the better. There is a lot of content even at low levels and many ways to enjoy the game. Rushing to 50 is just dumb. Players should just focus on what they like.

Originally posted by glid

To be honest i think it's the Warhammer Online Syndrome. Most people wanna lvl up in pvp, craft in pvp, loot in pvp, get AP in pvp. Grinding is part of Mmos and their patch that made LFG readable again made it much easier to find a group and enjoy some teamplay. EZ mode is not profitable.

Most casual players who wanna get to 50 in a month are wrong. What's the point enjoying a game when (and only when) you have achieved everything?

The longer you play the better. There is a lot of content even at low levels and many ways to enjoy the game. Rushing to 50 is just dumb. Players should just focus on what they like.

 

I think Warhammer syndrome is a good term. It was the one thing they did right. Even if you made leveling much slower, something akin to Warhammer's setup would be much more fun leveling than most MMO's. You wouldn't necesasrily have to make it "EZ", you can let people level with PvP without "EZ" mode.

omg ppl just omg..

No, I mean NO mmorpg doesnt have grinding.  Leveling is what makes it an Mmorpg.. ppl who cry about grinding/leveling are the ppl who just want to pvp simply put..  If you dont enjoy the entire gameplay dont play mmorpgs so play a private wow server and just gank ppl . its that simple

Originally posted by GPrestige

With all these justifications here, the simply truth of the matter is: the average gamer does not like to do the same OBVIOSULY (key word here) boring crap over and over. Keep in mind that the general population is stupid. Whether they are collecting 10 bear asses or 10 mystical waterdrops from the fountain of poon, it appears to be a diverse event. Also, to have XP come in in a big chunk, and to "Clear" certain zones of quests feels more like an accomplishment then just ONE MORE MONSTER - or a fraction of the XP bar.

 

Quests also emphasize exploring different regions of a map, while grinding can be in the same place for hours. However, repeatable quests appear as a grind, thats why a lot of people complain about how annoying dailies are in WoW. It isn't different everytime, its the same damn thing. How a majority of you posters here don't understand that absolutely astounds me. Then again, I did say the general population is stupid

You know, the best quest line I ever did was in EQ, when I was working towards getting my Greenmist sword of which I was the second on my server to get once the final quest went live. This quest line started at lvl 5 and was every 5 - 10 lvls for a new quest finally getting the last quest at lvl 55 I beleive. (remember at this time the highest lvl was 60) Finishing that quest line was so gratifying, and it took forever, but it was totally worth it, and I would do it over again in a heartbeat.

The backstory to this quest line as well as most of the Iksar quests was great, they pulled you right into the game, I only wish more games had the same thing.