On a whim, I sent SOE an e-mail back in early November. Since my toons were all on Tarq, I was curious to know if they were gone yet. Not only were they still there, but the CSR I talked to transferred them over to Starsider for me for free, despite the fact that I haven't had an active sub since the NGE came down. I just mentioned that I was thinking about coming back, (which wasn't the truth at all), and he jumped at helping me.

Originally posted by DarLorkar

what i found on web:

So yes after the servers are closed you will be charged to move them.

 

This week, SOE announced that it would be taking nearly half of the game's player servers offline on October 15. Beginning today, all players on the 12 affected servers have the opportunity to apply for a free transfer to one of the remaining 13 servers. Players who do not transfer their profiles by 5:00 p.m. PT on October 15 will lose access to their characters.

In light of the server consolidation, SOE was quick to point out that the game has a number of new enhancements in the pipeline. Over the next few months, the developer plans to roll out the Chronicle Master System, Death Troopers, and Galactic Civil War regions.

Servers poised to be shut down as part of the consolidation are listed below. A FAQ addressing the server closures and character transfers is available through SOE's Web site.

Corbantis
Europe-Infinity
Intrepid
Kauri
Kettemoor
Lowca
Naritus
Scylla
Tarquinas
Tempest
Valcyn
Wanderhome

Lol, I haven't been anywhere near an SoE product in about 5 years and...I see they haven't changed at all.

I can only assume that it would have made more sense, and perhaps efficiency, to just transfer the entire database instead of 'cherry-picking' through it all. That way, if something good ever does come down the line, it would make it easier to convince those who haven't re-subbed to come back. But then, what do I know. I'm not as smart as Smedley.

What SWG has had added since the NGE dabacle is about as good as SWG will ever get in regards to post NGE game play. Since $OE has closed 12 servers and more than half of the remaining servers are significantly underpopulated, $OE realizes its business decisions mean SWG will never see the level of content or have the essential core game changes needed to truly revitalize the playerbase. Even so, it is too little, too late. It has been over four years now, so $OE squandered its opportunity to save the game a long, long time ago.

I  applaud the CSR's that are doing the toon transfers off the closed servers for free. This is how it should be. 

Originally posted by Kazara

What SWG has had added since the NGE dabacle is about as good as SWG will ever get in regards to post NGE game play. Since $OE has closed 12 servers and more than half of the remaining servers are significantly underpopulated, $OE realizes its business decisions mean SWG will never see the level of content or have the essential core game changes needed to truly revitalize the playerbase. Even so, it is too little, too late. It has been over four years now, so $OE squandered its opportunity to save the game a long, long time ago.

I  applaud the CSR's that are doing the toon transfers off the closed servers for free. This is how it should be. 

I see this new GCW update forthcoming as the last player demanded content to finally flesh out what remains to be added.  Any other demand should be trivial in comparision. Any new features will reflect other systems or trends in the MMO industry as a whole; as long as they can be added with a skeleton dev crew.  SWG could be promoted and advertised to have a much more robust population.  However, the initial $75 million is now run out and LA will not afford more or sacrifice current income at its given levels.  The only reason LA has considered using SOE for a Clone Wars MMO(Free Realms Engine) is SOE offers a quick and easy system that caters to the market that LA wants within the limited time frame of the run of the TV series.  That deal is all about money for LA.  Remember LA has cut thier staff and pretty much dropped thier development branch.  LA controls most of what happens outside the devlopement process of SWG.  Thats the key reason why SWG has no ads or banners.  All SOE will afford is to pitch it back to the email list of those that have played, pretty much.  My experiance with SOE is they just try to maintain thier current player bases but promote thier new products.

Server closings or games launching with fewer servers is pretty much par for the course.  We are in a economic resession and keeping food on the table matters more than playing online games.  Further, there are many more MMO's out to choose from in the non-WOW circles that may be more appealing to the individual based on IP or genere.  Not everyone is a gamer, not everyone is a Star Wars fan.

You might ask: "Why would those fools spend money on SWG to promote it?"  The common view to hardcore gamers and longtime SWG vets is its a terriable game after the NGE.  Much trust was lost with it and the bait and switch of the third expansion for those folks.  Thats old history that doesn't matter to new players to the market who might try SWG.  You might say: "It should matter to everyone who would try SWG!"  Its not thier history with the game and four years was a long time ago in this market.  That said, many folks go out of thier way to make sure new players to SWG just don't happen.  That reason alone is much of why LA won't throw more money at it.  Thats a pretty good case of break even managment in play.

There is nothing good I can say that would not be flamed about SWG.  So, if you are interested in a Star Wars MMO thats fairly developed after six plus years then try the free trail.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

There is nothing good I can say that would not be flamed about SWG.  So, if you are interested in a Star Wars MMO thats fairly developed after six plus years then try the free trail.

Oddly enough, when a former player recommends someone interested in SWG try the trial before making a monetary investment, they get flamed on the general forum by current players.

By all means, enjoy the game as it currently is.  The fact of the matter is, if SWG was anywhere near a fun game, it would have a much larger playerbase than it currently does.  The game currently has a much larger playerbase than a game of its quality deserves, as small as the current playerbase of SWG currently is.

Everything the ever revolving intern dev team has done to the game over the past five years has been the equivalent of putting lipstick on a pig.  The core game is just flat out not fun, so any added content is useless.  It would take another full overhaul of the game, which will not happen, for the game to have any chance of even being marginally fun.  Combat is horrible (easily the worst combat system of any MMO on the market), line of site is extremely bugged, and the speed of the psuedo-FPS system, which is still there with the sorry excuse for a target lock system SOE slapped onto the game, is too fast for the game's engine to handle, which is the primary cause of specials not firing.  Crafting has been turned into WoW's enchanting system.  The number of buffs in the game are ridiculous.  Character movement is still like Benny Hill, and the redone animations were nothing more than the DCU art team (considering there is not a single dedicated artist working on SWG) removing a few frames from the old animations, which is why they look horrible in the game.

The only thing SWG has going for it is the housing system and the Star Wars IP.  You can find a similar housing system in Ultima Online (though the UO housing system is many times more customizable than SWG's, it is attached to a game that has been trashed into something that is almost as unfun as SWG), and ToR will also have the Star Wars IP, though without the movie timeline, which has done nothing for SWG considering every dev team the game has ever had has basically ignored it.

Any steps forward since the NGE are little more than jogging in place.  SWG is no better a game than it was when the NGE went live, there are just some more things for players to not have fun doing, and a few systems intended to hide the horrid core game systems.  Even today, the primary positive points the current playerbase points to as reasons why they play the game are almost exclusively from the pre-NGE era.  The difference between then and now is that to enjoy those things, you have to look past the core game systems, which would be easier if the core systems didn't assault you at every chance with how poorly thought out and how poorly implemented they are.

Originally posted by Charisi

On a whim, I sent SOE an e-mail back in early November. Since my toons were all on Tarq, I was curious to know if they were gone yet. Not only were they still there, but the CSR I talked to transferred them over to Starsider for me for free, despite the fact that I haven't had an active sub since the NGE came down. I just mentioned that I was thinking about coming back, (which wasn't the truth at all), and he jumped at helping me.

I think that's the way it should be.  It would really be nice if that was company policy.  /tiphat to a good CSR.
 

Originally posted by JYCowboy

That said, many folks go out of thier way to make sure new players to SWG just don't happen.  That reason alone is much of why LA won't throw more money at it.  Thats a pretty good case of break even managment in play.

 

There is nothing good I can say that would not be flamed about SWG.  So, if you are interested in a Star Wars MMO thats fairly developed after six plus years then try the free trail.

Perhaps Lucas Arts doesn't spend money on advertising SWG, because it has had 3 complete reboots in an attempt to stem the decaying playerbase and the end result is catastrophic failure.  The company running and designing the game has turned a solid gold license to print money into the single biggest set of EXAMPLES of what NOT to do with an mmo. This was the best effort the king of the mmo hill could muster.  If you were lucas arts, would you spend money on swg?

I think you need to realize how large the mmo market currently is and how many people do not have a past history with soe or read forums where old disgruntled players somehow keep new players away from the game.

Go look at the trial area of the game.  There are new people trying the game all the time.  There are not old players there discouraging them not to join.  They do not join based on their own experience with the trial.

As someone else already stated, if swg was such a well developed game, then it would attract more players.  A few angry players could not stop that.  Just look at how much WoW and Eve get trashed here and yet they grow.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by JYCowboy

That said, many folks go out of thier way to make sure new players to SWG just don't happen.  That reason alone is much of why LA won't throw more money at it.  Thats a pretty good case of break even managment in play.

 

There is nothing good I can say that would not be flamed about SWG.  So, if you are interested in a Star Wars MMO thats fairly developed after six plus years then try the free trail.

 

Perhaps Lucas Arts doesn't spend money on advertising SWG, because it has had 3 complete reboots in an attempt to stem the decaying playerbase and the end result is catastrophic failure.  3 complete reboots?  The only significate reboot anyone cares about now is the NGE and how it radically altered the total game.  The company running and designing the game has turned a solid gold license to print money into the single biggest set of EXAMPLES of what NOT to do with an mmo.  This was the best effort the king of the mmo hill could muster. SOE, King of mmo hill? ...LMAO!  If you were lucas arts, would you spend money on swg?  At this current point in time, no as TOR is thier best 2nd chance at making the NGE dream come true.  When TOR releases and does not kill WOW or even break 1 million concurrent subs, Lucas Arts then will have to consider all its options in this genere which SWG is one.

I think you need to realize how large the mmo market currently is and how many people do not have a past history with soe or read forums where old disgruntled players somehow keep new players away from the game.  I do realize how big 11 million concurrent subs in one MMO is.  I also understand that other envious companies just want to take a percent of it with what ever crap they can put in a box.  NGE was such a move without modesty.  My view of those that rally against players trying SWG goes beyond forums to game seller employees like Wal-Mart and Gamestop. Games might stop selling in boxes but reviews live on forever.  I also know that SOE is apathetic to making older failed games like SWG.  It survives based on the licenes of obligation to develope.  SOE then uses that as a test bed for ideas and interns.  Further, income for SWG is supplemented with TCG and those crazy Star Wars collectors that gotta have it all.  Lucas Arts was totally in support of this idea as who else understands fandom better.(Looks at my figure collection... :o)

Go look at the trial area of the game.  There are new people trying the game all the time.  There are not old players there discouraging them not to join.  They do not join based on their own experience with the trial.  I fully understand that and know the circumstance of suggesting the trail.  Your not chastising a "believer" for begging more to join.

As someone else already stated, if swg was such a well developed game, then it would attract more players.  A few angry players could not stop that.  Just look at how much WoW and Eve get trashed here and yet they grow.  I used the words "fairly developed". In the context of how much stuff the game has compared to new releases such as AoC or WAR, which has more features?  I did not say it was better than any other.  Play what you will and have fun.

Continue to flame me if you feel so, but understand I pretty much agree with you.

 

 

 

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Charisi

On a whim, I sent SOE an e-mail back in early November. Since my toons were all on Tarq, I was curious to know if they were gone yet. Not only were they still there, but the CSR I talked to transferred them over to Starsider for me for free, despite the fact that I haven't had an active sub since the NGE came down. I just mentioned that I was thinking about coming back, (which wasn't the truth at all), and he jumped at helping me.

I think that's the way it should be.  It would really be nice if that was company policy.  /tiphat to a good CSR.
 

This is what I've been saying.  Although I doubt any vets will return at this point (Charisi lending validity to my point), if one did, I do not see SOE trying to dig them with a transfer fee.  It is just far too self-defeating, even for a company with as many bullet holes in their feet as SOE.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by JYCowboy

That said, many folks go out of thier way to make sure new players to SWG just don't happen.  That reason alone is much of why LA won't throw more money at it.  Thats a pretty good case of break even managment in play.

 

There is nothing good I can say that would not be flamed about SWG.  So, if you are interested in a Star Wars MMO thats fairly developed after six plus years then try the free trail.

 

Perhaps Lucas Arts doesn't spend money on advertising SWG, because it has had 3 complete reboots in an attempt to stem the decaying playerbase and the end result is catastrophic failure.  3 complete reboots?  The only significate reboot anyone cares about now is the NGE and how it radically altered the total game.  The company running and designing the game has turned a solid gold license to print money into the single biggest set of EXAMPLES of what NOT to do with an mmo.  This was the best effort the king of the mmo hill could muster. SOE, King of mmo hill? ...LMAO!  If you were lucas arts, would you spend money on swg?  At this current point in time, no as TOR is thier best 2nd chance at making the NGE dream come true.  When TOR releases and does not kill WOW or even break 1 million concurrent subs, Lucas Arts then will have to consider all its options in this genere which SWG is one.

I think you need to realize how large the mmo market currently is and how many people do not have a past history with soe or read forums where old disgruntled players somehow keep new players away from the game.  I do realize how big 11 million concurrent subs in one MMO is.  I also understand that other envious companies just want to take a percent of it with what ever crap they can put in a box.  NGE was such a move without modesty.  My view of those that rally against players trying SWG goes beyond forums to game seller employees like Wal-Mart and Gamestop. Games might stop selling in boxes but reviews live on forever.  I also know that SOE is apathetic to making older failed games like SWG.  It survives based on the licenes of obligation to develope.  SOE then uses that as a test bed for ideas and interns.  Further, income for SWG is supplemented with TCG and those crazy Star Wars collectors that gotta have it all.  Lucas Arts was totally in support of this idea as who else understands fandom better.(Looks at my figure collection... :o)

Go look at the trial area of the game.  There are new people trying the game all the time.  There are not old players there discouraging them not to join.  They do not join based on their own experience with the trial.  I fully understand that and know the circumstance of suggesting the trail.  Your not chastising a "believer" for begging more to join.

As someone else already stated, if swg was such a well developed game, then it would attract more players.  A few angry players could not stop that.  Just look at how much WoW and Eve get trashed here and yet they grow.  I used the words "fairly developed". In the context of how much stuff the game has compared to new releases such as AoC or WAR, which has more features?  I did not say it was better than any other.  Play what you will and have fun.

Continue to flame me if you feel so, but understand I pretty much agree with you.

 

 

 

 

I wasn't flaming you at all.  I guess it just matter how the reader views the words, but I don't think I insulted you anywhere or implied that you were bad did I?  If so my appologies.

To clarify a few points. 

I don't think LA has stopped supporting swg due to some critics of the game.  Soe has created 3 different versions of the game and failed to cash in on the success of the star wars license.  While all games have their critics I think the failure of soe to right the course has had the largest impact on lucas choosing to walk away from this project.  I doubt soe could come up with a "4th times the charm" plan that would convince anyone they could make this game work.

At one point in time SOE was the king of the mmo hill.  There was a time that they owned the top 2 population spots on the mmo market and a few more in the top 10, but also a time when there was little competition in the market.

Also my comment about size of population was not aimed at wow, but the entire genre as a whole.  It really is a huge market now.  I know, stating the obvious, but it was worth saying.

In the end sure some people try to talk people out of trying swg, but I doubt walmarts and ebgames are stocked with disgruntled swg players and that is causing the downfall of the game.  Most people here actually recommend people download the trial, because they think that is the surest way to get someone to not play the game (which I find really strange).

You endorsement of the game honestly tells the truth.  The best comment about a 6 year old game is that it is "fairly developed" isn't really a strong selling point.  That is really the virtual online equivalent of not being able to look someone directly in the eye and tell them swg is a good game to play.  When the majority of the current players endorse the game as "not that bad" it tells the whole story.

Do bad reviews keep people away or does the game generate bad reviews form people who try the game? 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Do bad reviews keep people away or does the game generate bad reviews form people who try the game? 

 

Kinda a moot point when you have folks policeing forums for good reviews to trash.  Now five years after and there are still folks wanting to put it to SOE for hurting them.  Sure they have earned that right but when will that hate stop? If say SOE (w/ LA agreement) released a Pre-NGE server, would it help?  Not really as it was a poor game that was loosing subs in light of WOW.  If SOE made the effort to fix it and addapt it with all its new shinies of Post-NGE, would that turn the holy hand of the MMO God as a bless on SOE? Nope, once betrayed forever a villian to some vets.  There is no good course that SOE could persue to mend all fences.  None of that will happen anyway as the money is just not there.  The game gets the attention warrented by its subs.

Further, SOE has butt hurt folks in thier other games which further labels them a greedy evil shlock dealer.  MxO was pretty much abandoned when the popularity of the sequel movies crashed. It was only picked up so SOE could get the DC licences.  Planetside had its radical facelift that caused its base game play to turn into something its fans were't happy with (Mecha inclusion).  Vanguard is kinda in the same boat as SWG with little new content and bug fixes and is a strange bed fellow as a direct competitor to EQ2.  EQ2 has its share of publishes that estranged players along with the changes to EQ that make it a hard game to enter.  Free Realms is not free anymore since its 5 million accounts don't play and don't RMT on its one semi active server (Im still trying to figure out how they failed that one).  DCUO will have more PS3 interest and probably more PS3 support than SOE support making it not a real SOE product.  If it doesn't launch first with PC, it may never launch with a PC version.  The Agency is too niche to strike big, and if it did, would hardly rate better than PotB.

What truly hurts SOE is its continued practices of AAA titles with about B to C level quality.  WOW ruined the practice of releasing products not ready and quickly fixing and polishing them after launch.  The market expects near perfection now and its evident, to me, with the success of AoC, WAR, CO, Talaba Rasa, and many others.  If you don't polish it, then just don't release it.  Customer reguard is also in question with SOE.  I truly think they see thier customers as cattle to milk for cash.  I have seen lead devs chasties thier gamers for thier worth with great contemp.  I found it very insulting.  I think these very conditions puts the strain on the SOE/Lucas Arts relationship and is why LA moved away from SOE as they wouldn't change thier ways.  Again, only money called to LA to consider SOE for the Clone Wars MMO, if its a true product.  A one off quicky.  LA is not faultless in the SWG story but I leave that for another time.

That all said, what MMO company doesn't have a sorted history?  CCP? Blizzard?

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

  If say SOE (w/ LA agreement) released a Pre-NGE server, would it help? 

It would go one of two ways:

1) Players would see how awesome Pre-CU was and come back in droves*.

2) Players would see how crappy Pre-CU was and SOE would be proven right.

Either way, it would be a huge feather in SOE's cap. Option 2, certainly would be expensive in the short term, but it would go along way towards restoring SOE as a reputable company (first by showing they do care about what the players actually want, second by showing their vision was in the best interest of the game... personally, I don't think option 2 would occur... but I digress).

*droves: Indeterminate number, likely close to Pre-CU numbers guessing by how large the MMO player base has grown by since Pre-CU and the amount of controversy the NGE has amassed.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

  If say SOE (w/ LA agreement) released a Pre-NGE server, would it help? 

 

It would go one of two ways:

1) Players would see how awesome Pre-CU was and come back in droves*.

2) Players would see how crappy Pre-CU was and SOE would be proven right.

Either way, it would be a huge feather in SOE's cap. Option 2, certainly would be expensive in the short term, but it would go along way towards restoring SOE as a reputable company (first by showing they do care about what the players actually want, second by showing their vision was in the best interest of the game... personally, I don't think option 2 would occur... but I digress).

*droves: Indeterminate number, likely close to Pre-CU numbers guessing by how large the MMO player base has grown by since Pre-CU and the amount of controversy the NGE has amassed.

I don't think situation #2 would be proven.  All it would prove is that it took soe 4 years to admit the nge was a failure.  If people do not return in droves I think it just shows you can't re-release a game 6 years later after screwing it up for 6 years and expect players to come back.  Personally I don't care what soe releases for swg.  Until the company soe changes, nothing will change.  There are no more second, third, fourth, fifth changes for them to draw upon.

@JYCowbay.

Well said and I agree.  Very few people can see that soe has done far more than just the nge to sully their reputation.  Deep down at soe there is a company that wants to make games, but they are being held back by a group of people preventing that from happening and spreading a very toxic corporate culture among the workers. 

I don't really agree with your last line though.  Sure all companies have problems, but that doesn't mean they are all in the same league or that it somehow averages out all companies when you put them all together.

Some companies make mistakes, but for soe it is a clear choice they make.  Almost company policy.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

  If say SOE (w/ LA agreement) released a Pre-NGE server, would it help? 

 

It would go one of two ways:

1) Players would see how awesome Pre-CU was and come back in droves*.

2) Players would see how crappy Pre-CU was and SOE would be proven right.

Either way, it would be a huge feather in SOE's cap. Option 2, certainly would be expensive in the short term, but it would go along way towards restoring SOE as a reputable company (first by showing they do care about what the players actually want, second by showing their vision was in the best interest of the game... personally, I don't think option 2 would occur... but I digress).

*droves: Indeterminate number, likely close to Pre-CU numbers guessing by how large the MMO player base has grown by since Pre-CU and the amount of controversy the NGE has amassed.

 To:
 

1)  The very reasons you and I find Pre-CU awesome are the very reasons that the majority of the non-posting demographics don't like it.

A. An immersive experiance of living in the Star Wars universe. VS.  A second job that paid little reward high reward once completed.

B. A complex and mature world experinace that seem to never end.  VS.  The Luke Skywalker theme park guided game experiance.

I met folks that did say the things that brought about the NGE.  "Its too much of a job and not a game for my time." "Whats the quickest way to unlock Jedi?" "Im lost on how to get Commando." "What mission rewards that Legendary Rifle?"

These statements are all naive sounding Pre-CU but they are words from those that dominate the market now.  As a "Helper" there was nothing I could say or do that satisfied thier wants.  They left.  No matter how you spin how awsome Pre-CU was, it lost subs on its best days.  That was the one sin that Lucas Arts would not accept from SOE even in the wake of WOW's rise.  Its the very reason, no other company has successfully tried the model for a MMORPG since.  A really interesting lesson the industry learned from the NGE that is little spoken is that no I.P. has been used to try new systems to the genere since SWG.  I.P. holders don't want to reinvent the wheel but just capitalize on thier brands for profit.  Look close and you can see this.

So who do I blame for SWG's failings both pre and post NGE?  SOE's practices to get games to market and their follow-up care coupled with Lucas Arts insistance of use for cross marketing of product.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Originally posted by JYCowboy

 

  If say SOE (w/ LA agreement) released a Pre-NGE server, would it help? 

 

It would go one of two ways:

1) Players would see how awesome Pre-CU was and come back in droves*.

2) Players would see how crappy Pre-CU was and SOE would be proven right.

Either way, it would be a huge feather in SOE's cap. Option 2, certainly would be expensive in the short term, but it would go along way towards restoring SOE as a reputable company (first by showing they do care about what the players actually want, second by showing their vision was in the best interest of the game... personally, I don't think option 2 would occur... but I digress).

*droves: Indeterminate number, likely close to Pre-CU numbers guessing by how large the MMO player base has grown by since Pre-CU and the amount of controversy the NGE has amassed.

 To:
 

1)  The very reasons you and I find Pre-CU awesome are the very reasons that the majority of the non-posting demographics don't like it.

A. An immersive experiance of living in the Star Wars universe. VS.  A second job that paid little reward high reward once completed.

B. A complex and mature world experinace that seem to never end.  VS.  The Luke Skywalker theme park guided game experiance.

I met folks that did say the things that brought about the NGE.  "Its too much of a job and not a game for my time." "Whats the quickest way to unlock Jedi?" "Im lost on how to get Commando." "What mission rewards that Legendary Rifle?"

These statements are all naive sounding Pre-CU but they are words from those that dominate the market now.  As a "Helper" there was nothing I could say or do that satisfied thier wants.  They left.  No matter how you spin how awsome Pre-CU was, it lost subs on its best days.  That was the one sin that Lucas Arts would not accept from SOE even in the wake of WOW's rise.  Its the very reason, no other company has successfully tried the model for a MMORPG since.  A really interesting lesson the industry learned from the NGE that is little spoken is that no I.P. has been used to try new systems to the genere since SWG.  I.P. holders don't want to reinvent the wheel but just capitalize on thier brands for profit.  Look close and you can see this.

So who do I blame for SWG's failings both pre and post NGE?  SOE's practices to get games to market and their follow-up care coupled with Lucas Arts insistance of use for cross marketing of product.

I'm definitely not debating as to whether or not SWG Pre-CU has a current-gen mass market appeal. It doesn't. Nobody is saying it will. I think we can all agree that the current typical MMO player would be lost and frustrated in SWG Pre-CU, and it's success would be purely on a niche level.

What I'm putting forth, is that while even a classic server may or may not have a successful future outlook in terms of subscriptions numbers, it would help SOE's image at the very least, and it's almost guaranteed to overshadow the current SWG user base numbers in the short term. Easily paying for it's implementation. Which brings me back to my original post. If it only shows the masses that SOE was right and that Pre-CU sucks, it's to their credit.

As Daffid said, how could it hurt at this point?

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

I'm definitely not debating as to whether or not SWG Pre-CU has a current-gen mass market appeal. It doesn't. Nobody is saying it will. I think we can all agree that the current typical MMO player would be lost and frustrated in SWG Pre-CU, and it's success would be purely on a niche level.

What I'm putting forth, is that while even a classic server may or may not have a successful future outlook in terms of subscriptions numbers, it would help SOE's image at the very least, and it's almost guaranteed to overshadow the current SWG user base numbers in the short term. Easily paying for it's implementation. Which brings me back to my original post. If it only shows the masses that SOE was right and that Pre-CU sucks, it's to their credit.

As Daffid said, how could it hurt at this point?

 

On principle there would be a slim possibility that SOE would recover.  But principle doesn't pay the bills and that where the NGE came in.  The mis-managed and high cost of development was cutting into profits from sub on SWG.  There was a meeting between SOE and Lucas Arts. It was noted that much yelling and pounding accured. The CU was the first attempt, but the smart guys of marketing pushed the NGE formula for profitable restults.  LA was not happy with the loss of sub and the high cost of nurse-maiding the live team on SWG Pre-CU. Dev teams were cut and game system of high resource demand were changed. At that point, the game should have been completed (post launch) and running to its peak heading towards the million sub goal.  Pre-Cu was so broken behind the scenes that devs spent much of thier time chasing ghosts of bugs.  Do you remember patch day when you feared a fix to one system would cause two or more others to break?  It was a nightmare to both players and developers.  Slowly it was getting better towards the end of the CU but it carried that trend well past the NGE launch.  Management was pretty bad to.  No developer took a lead and tried to champion one aspect of the game to a polished state as it was mandated to chase brush fires to keep players happy.  LA isn't going to help pay for repairs to that version of SWG any further and at this point care less about SOE's reputation.  LA is also not in the niche business by definition.  SOE long ago developed apathy to the product and does token service as its still a revenue generator.

How could it hurt at this point?  Understaffed with no support, it would be accepted much like the un-enhanced theatrical versions of the original Star Wars DVD's.  Fun to see and remember but offering none of the advantages the Special Editions have.  To that example, I have to say:  "Yeah, but Han did shoot first."

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

I'm definitely not debating as to whether or not SWG Pre-CU has a current-gen mass market appeal. It doesn't. Nobody is saying it will. I think we can all agree that the current typical MMO player would be lost and frustrated in SWG Pre-CU, and it's success would be purely on a niche level.

What I'm putting forth, is that while even a classic server may or may not have a successful future outlook in terms of subscriptions numbers, it would help SOE's image at the very least, and it's almost guaranteed to overshadow the current SWG user base numbers in the short term. Easily paying for it's implementation. Which brings me back to my original post. If it only shows the masses that SOE was right and that Pre-CU sucks, it's to their credit.

As Daffid said, how could it hurt at this point?

 

 

On principle there would be a slim possibility that SOE would recover. (1)

It was noted that much yelling and pounding accured. (2)

How could it hurt at this point?  Understaffed with no support, it would be accepted much like the un-enhanced theatrical versions of the original Star Wars DVD's.  Fun to see and remember but offering none of the advantages the Special Editions have.  To that example, I have to say:  "Yeah, but Han did shoot first." (3)

1) Better a slim possibility of recovery than a guarantee of failure (which is what SOE is looking at as it stands)

2) Where did you read this? I'd love to read about a yelling match between SOE and LA, link please.

3) There was market justification to release a non-enhanced version, just as there's market justification release classic servers.

Good try though!

And yes, Han absolutely shot first!

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

 

2) Where did you read this? I'd love to read about a yelling match between SOE and LA, link please.

Thats the thing about the internet.  Things don't always last forever.  So many sites and post have been deleted in the last 5 years.  I can point to the time in history from Freeman and Ruimfield but there is no direct explaination.  I originally read it from a former LA employee that was deleted quickly.  The best way way for me to indicate the mood and time it happen is one word:  Tiggs.

The details of what happen, I remember posted:  Big time meeting of all SWG department heads with the company bosses (That would be John Smedley and Jim Ward).  After much screaming and pounding of the table, Smed left the meeting with a great frown while others had tears.  Totally an observers view but it stuck with me.  Again was deleted to protect the NDA's.

I did try to search for it to no avail.

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by Daffid011

Do bad reviews keep people away or does the game generate bad reviews form people who try the game? 

 

 

Kinda a moot point when you have folks policeing forums for good reviews to trash.  Now five years after and there are still folks wanting to put it to SOE for hurting them.  Sure they have earned that right but when will that hate stop? If say SOE (w/ LA agreement) released a Pre-NGE server, would it help?  Not really as it was a poor game that was loosing subs in light of WOW.  If SOE made the effort to fix it and addapt it with all its new shinies of Post-NGE, would that turn the holy hand of the MMO God as a bless on SOE? Nope, once betrayed forever a villian to some vets.  There is no good course that SOE could persue to mend all fences.  None of that will happen anyway as the money is just not there.  The game gets the attention warrented by its subs.

 

Further, SOE has butt hurt folks in thier other games which further labels them a greedy evil shlock dealer.  MxO was pretty much abandoned when the popularity of the sequel movies crashed. It was only picked up so SOE could get the DC licences.  Planetside had its radical facelift that caused its base game play to turn into something its fans were't happy with (Mecha inclusion).  Vanguard is kinda in the same boat as SWG with little new content and bug fixes and is a strange bed fellow as a direct competitor to EQ2.  EQ2 has its share of publishes that estranged players along with the changes to EQ that make it a hard game to enter.  Free Realms is not free anymore since its 5 million accounts don't play and don't RMT on its one semi active server (Im still trying to figure out how they failed that one).  DCUO will have more PS3 interest and probably more PS3 support than SOE support making it not a real SOE product.  If it doesn't launch first with PC, it may never launch with a PC version.  The Agency is too niche to strike big, and if it did, would hardly rate better than PotB.

 

What truly hurts SOE is its continued practices of AAA titles with about B to C level quality.  WOW ruined the practice of releasing products not ready and quickly fixing and polishing them after launch.  The market expects near perfection now and its evident, to me, with the success of AoC, WAR, CO, Talaba Rasa, and many others.  If you don't polish it, then just don't release it.  Customer reguard is also in question with SOE.  I truly think they see thier customers as cattle to milk for cash.  I have seen lead devs chasties thier gamers for thier worth with great contemp.  I found it very insulting.  I think these very conditions puts the strain on the SOE/Lucas Arts relationship and is why LA moved away from SOE as they wouldn't change thier ways.  Again, only money called to LA to consider SOE for the Clone Wars MMO, if its a true product.  A one off quicky.  LA is not faultless in the SWG story but I leave that for another time.

 

That all said, what MMO company doesn't have a sorted history?  CCP? Blizzard?

Great summary of SOE's handling of its many titles Jess.  Probably sums up a few hundreds posts I've read lol, and a few that I've authored.   I also liked your summary of SOE and LA's roles over the course of SWG.  Hit the nail on the head imo.  I think you said rushing out busted stuff and then poor customer follow-up on the part of SOE, along with LA's crazy marketting deadlines.

I think you're right too about SWG being a test-bed for new ideas, business models and interns; and I've long felt that SOE treats customers as cows to be milked, rather than people to be provided an entertainment service.

I think, btw, that this feeling came through in the Free Realms game (e.g. you can be a pet trainer for free; oh btw, pets will cost you extra).  When I see stuff like that in a game, my middle finger starts to twitch.  They also wrote legal crap in their EULA to minors about using their parents' Visa card.  Seemed like they wanted the kids to go fetch the milk, sticking with the cattle analogy.  Imo, a EULA shouldn't address minors with regard to the use of a parent's credit card.  The EULA should address the parents, or tell the child to go get them.  The cartoon network game does that.  The name escapes me at the moment, but I read their EULA carefully, and liked what I saw.

Also, you're right that some former SWG players still want to put the hurt on SOE, and they see killing the NGE as the best way to do it.  That's really never been my thing though, because as much as I didn't like some of the things SOE did, I don't want to see someone else have their online happy place taken away.  Instead, over the last few years, I've attempted to highlight how I think SOE could amend their practices to be more consumer-friendly. 

I always hoped that they would have a friendlier business model, provide current players with good customer support, and open a classic server for pre-cu enthusiasts.  I never understood why they wouldn't do these things.  It always seemed to me that everyone would be better off for it, including SOE.  Whatever their reasons, and I'm sure they have them, they never seemed to make this direction a real priority.

You mentioned how some people seem to search for positive reviews to flame.  I think you're right.  Positive reviews never bothered me personally though.  I was always glad to see folks having a good time, even if they were doing so in a game I could no longer enjoy.  Mainly what I don't much like are posts that insult others (simply for having a different opinion) or that read like a guerilla marketting campaign.

Sort of in the same vein, I was always amazed at the massive flames that would be sent my way when I would point out bugs that still need to be fixed, or  highlight aspects of a new business model that didn't seem to have the gamer's best interest in mind.  It always seemed strange to me that some players would defend bugs, broken promises, or new ways to take more of our money while offering us less entertainment.  I still don't get that tbh :P.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Or

I think, btw, that this feeling came through in the Free Realms game (e.g. you can be a pet trainer for free; oh btw, pets will cost you extra).  When I see stuff like that in a game, my middle finger starts to twitch.  They also wrote legal crap in their EULA to minors about using their parents' Visa card.  Seemed like they wanted the kids to go fetch the milk, sticking with the cattle analogy.  Imo, a EULA shouldn't address minors with regard to the use of a parent's credit card.  The EULA should address the parents, or tell the child to go get them.  The cartoon network game does that.  The name escapes me at the moment, but I read their EULA carefully, and liked what I saw.

Also, you're right that some former SWG players still want to put the hurt on SOE, and they see killing the NGE as the best way to do it.  That's really never been my thing though, because as much as I didn't like some of the things SOE did, I don't want to see someone else have their online happy place taken away.  Instead, over the last few years, I've attempted to highlight how I think SOE could amend their practices to be more consumer-friendly. 

I always hoped that they would have a friendlier business model, provide current players with good customer support, and open a classic server for pre-cu enthusiasts.  I never understood why they wouldn't do these things.  It always seemed to me that everyone would be better off for it, including SOE.  Whatever their reasons, and I'm sure they have them, they never seemed to make this direction a real priority.

You mentioned how some people seem to search for positive reviews to flame.  I think you're right.  Positive reviews never bothered me personally though.  I was always glad to see folks having a good time, even if they were doing so in a game I could no longer enjoy.  Mainly what I don't much like are posts that insult others (simply for having a different opinion) or that read like a guerilla marketting campaign.

Sort of in the same vein, I was always amazed at the massive flames that would be sent my way when I would point out bugs that still need to be fixed, or  highlight aspects of a new business model that didn't seem to have the gamer's best interest in mind.  It always seemed strange to me that some players would defend bugs, broken promises, or new ways to take more of our money while offering us less entertainment.  I still don't get that tbh :P.

I thought Free Realms was supposed to be a great success for SOE? Is that incorrect?