i was thinking about buying this game...

but i've seen loads of vids on youtube of really quite poor AI in terms of combat and poor combat generally

my complaints so far are:

* AI aggro distance is stupidly short & AI attack in predictable ways

* AI enemies are types which you would expect to be a challenge but are not (e.g. shouldn't humans be able to put up more of a fight? - is it really fun to slaughter a dozen people on a single mission when it just isn't a challenge?)

* I've never seen AI use cover

* damage model is based on 'skills' - but shouldn't a bullet in the leg cause the same damage regardless of who shoots it?

* no apparent physics model to any combat (can you 'blow' someone into the air?)

i think they (the devs) will need to revisit this - becasue at the moment - the combat may as well be the same trash combat other MMO's seem to get away with

go ahead - prove me wrong - show me your best vid of the combat this game has to offer - because thats the only way you are gonna change my mind

the justification is you're a noob.  Sector 2+ mob ai starts using cover and stuff.  The AI is my least favorite part of the game and it definately needs help, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be.  The combat is awesome, just the pve sucks.

Hmmm, I've mixed feelings about the aggro distance actually. Often, I think it's really low, but then most often because like nearly two times the level of that mob. And sometimes I've the feeling that they aggro very very quickly. As said, it probably depends on the level of the mobs, and during the last days I was mostly doing missions in areas far below my level.

A large part of the damage is calculated by the type of weapon you use and the type of armor and abilities the victim is having. Of course your own skills play a role. Why? Well, in my opinion, there is always a certain line that has to be found, that is between realism and fun.
For example, in theory it should happen that you would stumble over a stone every now and then, break your ankle, and move at a third speed for the next month. Should happen. Could be implemented without a problem. Would be realistic. Is it done? No, never, in no MMORPG. Why? Because it wouldn't be fun. That's the point. 

I do agree, the AI is dumb. Yet, this is the case for nearly all MMORPGs. I wouldn't expect anything else. It's just that way in MMORPGs. Mobs are dumb in about all the MMORPGs in existance. When I buy an MMORPG, then I assume the mobs are dumb, and bosses even that out mostly with their increased amount of hitpoints, some increased damage and special ability. They ain't more clever though.

I'd prefer a more clever AI sometimes too. But as said... I knew that was in this game the way. I know it's in about all games that way. As such, I know what I was doing when I bought the game and when I play it, and I am having fun.

PvE is boring indeed. It feels like they have put mostly all effort on the crafting leaving nothing to PvErs but crafters. I was surprised to see this game being so easy and containing no group oriented content or at least solo instances/dungeons.

Originally posted by robino

i was thinking about buying this game...

but i've seen loads of vids on youtube of really quite poor AI in terms of combat and poor combat generally

my complaints so far are:

* AI aggro distance is stupidly short & AI attack in predictable ways

* AI enemies are types which you would expect to be a challenge but are not (e.g. shouldn't humans be able to put up more of a fight? - is it really fun to slaughter a dozen people on a single mission when it just isn't a challenge?)

* I've never seen AI use cover

* damage model is based on 'skills' - but shouldn't a bullet in the leg cause the same damage regardless of who shoots it?

* no apparent physics model to any combat (can you 'blow' someone into the air?)

 

i think they (the devs) will need to revisit this - becasue at the moment - the combat may as well be the same trash combat other MMO's seem to get away with

go ahead - prove me wrong - show me your best vid of the combat this game has to offer - because thats the only way you are gonna change my mind

 

That's your opinion. I find the game to be great. dont try to smash something if you havent tried it.

Sucky combat? Guess you haven't played SWG since the CU huh?

Originally posted by robino

* AI aggro distance is stupidly short & AI attack in predictable ways

This varies depending on your level/ and the creature type. I've had humans in a lookout tower run at me from a fair distance away. That being said, the AI does need a bit of work.

* AI enemies are types which you would expect to be a challenge but are not (e.g. shouldn't humans be able to put up more of a fight? - is it really fun to slaughter a dozen people on a single mission when it just isn't a challenge?)

This is a BS point. When has this ever been the case in any MMO where you have rats that can slaughter a whole group, and orcs that drop on a dime if you're high enough. And it's not really a challenge to kill someone with, you know, a crossbow. 

* I've never seen AI use cover

Haven't seen it myself. Supposedly they do later.

* damage model is based on 'skills' - but shouldn't a bullet in the leg cause the same damage regardless of who shoots it?

That's like complaining that "the damage model is based off "levels" but shouldn't a sword cut a leg off regardless of who you are?" It's a nitpick that's true of any game. And the answer is also always the same, the level, or in this case skill, represents how well you can use the weapon/ability. Someone who's never used a rifle may be able to hit a leg by luck. Someone who's an expert marksmen however is going to know how to blow off your kneecap, and aim correctly, to completely disable you. 

* no apparent physics model to any combat (can you 'blow' someone into the air?)

Actually, the fact that enemies are being knocked back shows that there is obviously some physics model since they're being affected by the force of the impacts. I agree that the system is a bit out of whack though. 

As for the "justification" it's not WoW. I don't know what you were expecting. The game ran out of funding in development and had to release earlier than planned, and it was built from the ground up, engine and all, by a very small group of dedicated people.  Does it justify the problems, no. But there's a fairly understandable reason. 

""PvE is boring indeed. It feels like they have put mostly all effort on the crafting leaving nothing to PvErs but crafters. I was surprised to see this game being so easy and containing no group oriented content or at least solo instances/dungeons.""

Easy is relative. I'm guessing you're expecting something very different than what the game is looking to be considering you're looking for "group content" "solo instances/dungeons." There are no instances. The only breaks in the world are between the sectors. There are areas in the game which are best cleared with groups, there are bosses, and there are areas that can be cleared by yourself. However, you need to explore to find them. Quests in this game are more of a formality and used for particular features like faction wars. They're not there to guide your "progression" or anything like that. You can wonder off into the wilderness and find a number of things similar to what you're looking for, but don't expect there to be any raids and dropping of rare loot.

I'm not sure why I bothered to actually respond to this. It's quite clear you're not looking for actual explanations and are just trolling for attention and to bash something you don't like. 

i was thinking about buying this game...

but i've seen loads of vids on youtube of really quite poor AI in terms of combat and poor combat generally

my complaints so far are  (QUOTE)
 

Ok you lost me right at the begining, 'my compliants are', What the heck, you havnt played the game and you have compliants, what level of ownership do you think you have, are you a shareholder or an investor ?

90%+ of all in game vids for starters come from S1-sector one, now S1 is the training wheels of the game if you like, it has dumb Ai at the first half of the zone, with its caling slowly up to S2 behaviour. That is a well known part of the game and shows a lack of research to gain a basic knowledge of how the game begins.

Now you have hit lvl 15+ plus you are ready to start getting close to the end of S1, you think you are a good to go anyway, leap into s2 and suddenly mobs are diving to prone to open fire, in long grass, some mobs are using mutagenics skills to blind you, confuse you and set you on fire, poison you and then more than likely pose for pictures over your corpse still saying WTF.

Now after that, yeah more tweaking meeds doing, some stuff is working to well, bodies bouncing 9 foot in the air after a hit, or not at all, ATVs just hug the ground but all in all its all just tweaking, which has been occurring on a very regular basis.

But the main point is I can go where the hell I like and level in different ways, I got 2 levels from crafting stuff I needed, I didnt move a bloody inch.

Originally posted by robino

i was thinking about buying this game...

but i've seen loads of vids on youtube of really quite poor AI in terms of combat and poor combat generally

my complaints so far are:

* AI aggro distance is stupidly short & AI attack in predictable ways

* AI enemies are types which you would expect to be a challenge but are not (e.g. shouldn't humans be able to put up more of a fight? - is it really fun to slaughter a dozen people on a single mission when it just isn't a challenge?)

* I've never seen AI use cover

* damage model is based on 'skills' - but shouldn't a bullet in the leg cause the same damage regardless of who shoots it?

* no apparent physics model to any combat (can you 'blow' someone into the air?)

 

i think they (the devs) will need to revisit this - becasue at the moment - the combat may as well be the same trash combat other MMO's seem to get away with

go ahead - prove me wrong - show me your best vid of the combat this game has to offer - because thats the only way you are gonna change my mind

 

1. If it didn't no noob would ever hit anything with a rifle and you'd get swarmed by a buttload of mobs everywhere you went. The game just isn't made that way and shouldn't be.

2. How much of a fight would you put up with a crossbow bolt sticking through your head? Yes it is fun for me. Especially when I put a dozen crossbow bolts through a dozen heads.

3. I have, bastards.

4. Not all wounds are equal. It can be "just a fleshwound" or "when the bullet hits the bone," Even in the real world. Especially in the real world.

5. It's called rag doll physics. You see it a lot these days. I like the way they flop down hill when you put a crossbow bolt through their head. The popping up into the air thing is a bit odd but you get used to it. Especially if you can put a cross bow bolt through their head in midair.

I think the devs will ignore you and rightly so.

I have nothing to prove and the game doesn't either. You like it or you don't. Why would I put any effort into changing your mind? I have a job that ain't it.

OK.  If sector 2 combat is much better then show me some videos.

Originally posted by robino

OK.  If sector 2 combat is much better then show me some videos.

 

How about you do your own legwork? I'll tell you a secret. All game videos give a false impression. I've yet to see someone post one of them doing something stupid and getting owned by mobs that wasn't a comedy setup. Not One.

Yes,NPC AI suck in this game.The hardest action they can do is proness.

Originally posted by robino

OK.  If sector 2 combat is much better then show me some videos.

 

I'd show you but fraps turns FE on my rig into a slideshow (its fraps not FE, as soon as it goes off I get good fps) and then everyone would say the lags terrible. Hardly a accourate representation of combat. Maybe when some of the folks with high end systems like maji get to s2 they can post different AI actions.

Originally posted by robino

i was thinking about buying this game...

but i've seen loads of vids on youtube of really quite poor AI in terms of combat and poor combat generally

my complaints so far are:

* AI aggro distance is stupidly short & AI attack in predictable ways

* AI enemies are types which you would expect to be a challenge but are not (e.g. shouldn't humans be able to put up more of a fight? - is it really fun to slaughter a dozen people on a single mission when it just isn't a challenge?)

* I've never seen AI use cover

* damage model is based on 'skills' - but shouldn't a bullet in the leg cause the same damage regardless of who shoots it?

* no apparent physics model to any combat (can you 'blow' someone into the air?)

 

i think they (the devs) will need to revisit this - becasue at the moment - the combat may as well be the same trash combat other MMO's seem to get away with

go ahead - prove me wrong - show me your best vid of the combat this game has to offer - because thats the only way you are gonna change my mind

 

It does, but if I have a steal plate on my leg, I wont take as much damage as you. Sorry. 

The combat is sucky? I thought it was freaking awesome for a mmo.

Shit if you expected Single player type fps combat you must not have read up on the game ahead of time.

Sorry you wasted 50 bucks.   Read about a game before you buy it next time.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by robino

OK.  If sector 2 combat is much better then show me some videos.

 

 

How about you do your own legwork? I'll tell you a secret. All game videos give a false impression. I've yet to see someone post one of them doing something stupid and getting owned by mobs that wasn't a comedy setup. Not One.

never having played the game before how am i to tell sector 2 from sector 1?  This could lead me to mis-represent the game as you have described.

i assume you could differentiate between the two - being an actual player and all

so anyone who wants to post up vids or links to vids which show sector 2 combat?

show me

---

Originally posted by robino

---

Originally posted by zymurgeist

---

Originally posted by robino

OK.  If sector 2 combat is much better then show me some videos.
 

---

How about you do your own legwork? I'll tell you a secret. All game videos give a false impression. I've yet to see someone post one of them doing something stupid and getting owned by mobs that wasn't a comedy setup. Not One.

---

never having played the game before how am i to tell sector 2 from sector 1?  This could lead me to mis-represent the game as you have described.

i assume you could differentiate between the two - being an actual player and all

so anyone who wants to post up vids or links to vids which show sector 2 combat?
show me

---

If you're really wanting to find vids of S2 combat, you would've already found them yourself. I don't even play FE, and it took me less than a minute to find some on YouTube.

You could differentiate between the two by reading vid descriptions.

don't you think i've already looked?

don't you think i know how to use youtube?

don't you think if i knew what sector 2 combat looked like i'd be here asking about it?

there are currently NO vids on youtube entitled 'fallen earth sector 2'

there are currently NO vids on youtube entitled 'sector 2 combat'

which is why i am here - relying on YOU people - who recognise the signs - to direct me to the right vids - i'm being pateint - i'm waiting for the good pple in this thread to show me some of the nice features they are talking about - because every vis i;ve seen so far SEEMS to be of sector 1 and the AI SEEM to be as thick as two short planks!!

don;t come in here saying 'you don;t know how to use youtube hahah!' because it's a specific thing i'm looking for

now i'm not accepting that's the limit of the AI in this game because the pple in this thread have led me to believe otherwise

are they wrong?

Originally posted by robino

don't you think i've already looked?

No.

don't you think i know how to use youtube?

No.

don't you think if i knew what sector 2 combat looked like i'd be here asking about it?

 Probably. 

there are currently NO vids on youtube entitled 'fallen earth sector 2'

there are currently NO vids on youtube entitled 'sector 2 combat'

 

which is why i am here - relying on YOU people - who recognise the signs - to direct me to the right vids

 

In all seriousness, though, the information is out there. It's just the matter of fact attitude you took in your OP when you haven't even played the game, and which I have been for a long time now, that's just a put off to giving any links or even trying to argue your points. Course, there are enough positive threads on this forum, from people who railed on the game who had at least some actual game time who later did a 180 on their view that show FE's merits that arguing against these type of threads or trying to win every individual over who posts these type threads is a waste of time.

The amount of people I run into at all times of the day, the realistic estimate of 50K subs making FE very profitable for Icarus and the relative lack of doom and glooming on the original forums and in game chat let me know in the current situation FE has a good solid start. The game needs no justification, especially to someone who hasn't played it yet feels compelled to rant in a "fact of matter" manner.

I played the game for a couple of weeks.  I too was turned off by the combat.  It felt overly clunky.  I did like the community and the general atmosphere of the game, but the lack of polish and the clunky combat was a killer for me.  I might check it out in a few months when the developers have had more time to polish it.