Originally posted by Diekfoo

But he got access to the beta and played for some days. Then you have started to use what you bought.

Uhm what? Isnt the stance of Starvault, and everybody else supporting this paid beta thing, that you are NOT paying for beta but rather for the game?

Because you are not saying that you are indeed paying for beta...

But even so, they cannot hold on to your money indefinetely, that is shady business practices. People that want out should be able to get out, it is a pre-order, not a maffia deal.

But you can only play the beta if you have bought the product.  

It is often possible to utilize the consumer rights to ones best: When a shop offers a free lottery if you buy a product, or a certain free product if you buy more than 100 dollar. Now suppose a customer makes a purchase and gets a free thing, he then uses the free thing and returns to the shop to return the product he purchased to get a refund. Sometimes the shop will agree to refund, sometimes they refuse. It is up to the merchant to take the most appropriate action.

Sometime there is a real legitimate reason for the customer, somtime he is just smart. He knows best himself. If the customer then stands in front of the shop, tells everyone that they can easily get refunded if they do as he did, he is probably a smart one. If enough people are "smart", no merchants can afford to be nice to their customers.

In contrary to MiteFiend, I believe very few, less than 1%, people claimed refund. But if he continues agitating people, there could be real consequences. Many beta testers want Star Vault to release the game in a polished state, even if this means they have to push release date to Q1 next year. It is not a big deal for any people. Beta testers get postponed their monthly payments. That is all and it is fair. But if there is risk for massive refund claims. SV might feel forced to release in Q4, even the game might need one or two months work on it. Then people like MiteFiend may be very delighted to talk about "second Darkfall". I don't know if this was the intented effects or not. This was at least the reason I reacted.
 

Originally posted by apple01

It is often possible to utilize the consumer rights to ones best: When a shop offers a free lottery if you buy a product, or a certain free product if you buy more than 100 dollar. Now suppose a customer makes a purchase and gets a free thing, he then uses the free thing and returns to the shop to return the product he purchased to get a refund. Sometimes the shop will agree to refund, sometimes they refuse. It is up to the merchant to take the most appropriate action.

If the consumer can not give the product back the free gift wasn't free at all. It is more part of a pack or set then which would mean in the case of MO paid beta.

Sometime there is a real legitimate reason for the customer, somtime he is just smart. He knows best himself. If the customer then stands in front of the shop, tells everyone that they can easily get refunded if they do as he did, he is probably a smart one. If enough people are "smart", no merchants can afford to be nice to their customers.

The "being nice to customers thing" is nothing else than marketing and nothing more than this. Its a way to make the consumer interested in the product and not a try be welfare. The aim of every business company is to earn as much money as possible, if it helps when they give the dog a bone to reach their aim then it is calculated that the dog may run away with that.

In contrary to MiteFiend, I believe very few, less than 1%, people claimed refund. But if he continues agitating people, there could be real consequences. Many beta testers want Star Vault to release the game in a polished state, even if this means they have to push release date to Q1 next year. It is not a big deal for any people. Beta testers get postponed their monthly payments. That is all and it is fair. But if there is risk for massive refund claims. SV might feel forced to release in Q4, even the game might need one or two months work on it. Then people like MiteFiend may be very delighted to talk about "second Darkfall". I don't know if this was the intented effects or not. This was at least the reason I reacted.
You don't have any proof how much people have claimed refund either. I don't see him agitating anyone, he only told about his experiences that he had with MO and its a fact that he didn't received the box that you can't deny. It is good to know that for every forum user here because in the main forum these threads will be deleted.

Even if MO fails its not the end of the world and if Star Vault is able to deliver a decent product a forum post will not stop the game. No one else than Star Vault is responsible for the release date so calm down please.

You know there is going to be a lot of games coming out over the next year,i have nothing against MO,but i think they are going to be in trouble.

Just to name a few big ones ...TERA,FFXIV,Blade n Soul[ncsoft],GuildWars,this not including many indie developers,does MO have much of a chance?

Originally posted by Wizardry

You know there is going to be a lot of games coming out over the next year,i have nothing against MO,but i think they are going to be in trouble.

Just to name a few big ones ...TERA,FFXIV,Blade n Soul[ncsoft],GuildWars,this not including many indie developers,does MO have much of a chance?

MO is not competing with those theme park games.

It has a small but devoted fanbase that are looking for a true sanbox fantasy mmo with no levels and no grinding.

Actually there are more new ppl joining MO´s boat every day.

Most of them are old-school UO fans that are disapointed with DF.

Originally posted by adrala

Originally posted by Wizardry

You know there is going to be a lot of games coming out over the next year,i have nothing against MO,but i think they are going to be in trouble.

Just to name a few big ones ...TERA,FFXIV,Blade n Soul[ncsoft],GuildWars,this not including many indie developers,does MO have much of a chance?

MO is not competing with those theme park games.

It has a small but devoted fanbase that are looking for a true sanbox fantasy mmo with no levels and no grinding.

Actually there are more new ppl joining MO´s boat every day.

Most of them are old-school UO fans that are disapointed with DF.

If they are dissapointed with DF then what makes them think MO will be any different? Both games developed by indy developers, both are full loot, both forced 1st person view, both sandbox game with skills rather than levels and both short on money (which is never a good sign).

My bet is that MO will turn out excactly like DF. I didnt at first but this whole "pay for beta" debacle and the fact that they dont allow refunds makes me think DF, or even Mourning. I.e. devs that say that this is their "dream come true" yet they do everything they can to get hold of your money (and keep it even though they havent delivered the game).

Originally posted by Yamota

If they are dissapointed with DF then what makes them think MO will be any different? Both games developed by indy developers, both are full loot, both forced 1st person view, both sandbox game with skills rather than levels and both short on money (which is never a good sign).

My bet is that MO will turn out excactly like DF. I didnt at first but this whole "pay for beta" debacle and the fact that they dont allow refunds makes me think DF, or even Mourning. I.e. devs that say that this is their "dream come true" yet they do everything they can to get hold of your money (and keep it even though they havent delivered the game).

I'm in the MO beta and I was in the DFO one. I can't talk about it because of the NDA other than what patch notes say. MO developers do not lie.

I don't expect much from MO. This is the current situation:

1) official forums are dead since beta forums started. That means, only 10.000 people are following the game.

2) forumers from 2008 have disappeared and they looked so hyped. And I was the troll. I'm still in the forums and they just left. Wonder if they will keep the guys from 2009.

3) forumers love the combat in some medieval addon, I think for half-life2, I forgot the name. They announced it in the forums in several threads and said that the combat was so good and very similar to what MO should be.  I downloaded it and played it. It's just the worst combat ever. I mean.. worse than some flash games going around. But forumers love it. And they are the ones beta testing MO.

4) These beta testers have bought the game. They are the 10.000 most die-hard MO fanatics in the planet. So don't expect any rational and objective criticism from them. They will be extremely condescent to the developers, they will forgive all shortcomings. The few that will dissent will be acused of trolling and rejected.

So no I don't expect much from this situation.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Yamota

If they are dissapointed with DF then what makes them think MO will be any different? Both games developed by indy developers, both are full loot, both forced 1st person view, both sandbox game with skills rather than levels and both short on money (which is never a good sign).

My bet is that MO will turn out excactly like DF. I didnt at first but this whole "pay for beta" debacle and the fact that they dont allow refunds makes me think DF, or even Mourning. I.e. devs that say that this is their "dream come true" yet they do everything they can to get hold of your money (and keep it even though they havent delivered the game).

 

I'm in the MO beta and I was in the DFO one. I can't talk about it because of the NDA other than what patch notes say. MO developers do not lie.

Implying that the Aventurine devs DID lie? 

I don't know, I'd say the MO devs charging actual money for people to play beta, having their first trailer pre rendered and pretending it was all in game footage, and saying they'd release what was it? last year? then last spring? then last summer? now its like, next year ? To most people who trolled Darkfall, that counts as lying. 

Originally posted by altairzq

I don't expect much from MO. This is the current situation:

1) official forums are dead since beta forums started. That means, only 10.000 people are following the game.

2) forumers from 2008 have disappeared and they looked so hyped. And I was the troll. I'm still in the forums and they just left. Wonder if they will keep the guys from 2009.

3) forumers love the combat in some medieval addon, I think for half-life2, I forgot the name. They announced it in the forums in several threads and said that the combat was so good and very similar to what MO should be.  I downloaded it and played it. It's just the worst combat ever. I mean.. worse than some flash games going around. But forumers love it. And they are the ones beta testing MO.

4) These beta testers have bought the game. They are the 10.000 most die-hard MO fanatics in the planet. So don't expect any rational and objective criticism from them. They will be extremely condescent to the developers, they will forgive all shortcomings. The few that will dissent will be acused of trolling and rejected.

So no I don't expect much from this situation.

I was just about to make a post along these lines but you've said it all. The one thing I will add is that the numerous youtube videos around make it clear this game has a long, long way to go before it is even playable, with basic features. The "MO is better than DF" fan-cry is still pure unadulterated optimism at this point.

And IMO, charging 90 bucks for a game in alpha is far, far more dishonest/dodgy than anything we have seen from Aventurine. And P.S. I am not a huge DF fan nor MO hater, I support both games and am just trying to be objective.

Originally posted by Polarisation
I'm not in the beta, so I have no clue of what I'm talking about and am just making speculations and trolling here.

Fixed for you.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Polarisation
I'm not in the beta, so I have no clue of what I'm talking about and am just making speculations and trolling here.

Fixed for you.

In the beta, and guess what your fix is totally wrong. Nice try fawnboi.

Originally posted by gnomad1

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Polarisation
I'm not in the beta, so I have no clue of what I'm talking about and am just making speculations and trolling here.

Fixed for you.

In the beta, and guess what your fix is totally wrong. Nice try fawnboi.

Sure you are. And I am Bill Gates.

I actually like MO better then DF.
Been in beta since block A.  I've spent more time in this beta then I have in any released MMO in the past couple years.

Darkfall and Mortal Online are completely dif. games.
There is no comparing the two.
 

I'd like to point out.
The guys who are blasting MO as being bad,
Are Darkfall fans. 

Stop worrying.
MO isn't going to kill your game.
It's not even going to compete for the same audience.
People that prefer Darkfall are going to play Darkfall for the style of game it is. 

It's like trying to compare Shadowbane to UO. 
Not the same kind of games, and as much as Darkfall fans want to deny it, Shadowbane is exactly the kind of game AV intended to make.

Quite a number of the negative posters here seem to have a fair amount of posts in the Darkfall forums.

The game is moving along fairly well from the patch notes, and the forums still seem just as active as ever.

You are looking at about 1500 different accounts checking the forums a day, and roughly 4500 active forum accounts since the beginning of the month. If even a quarter of that number posted, I'd have difficulty keeping up.

Is that a terribly huge number? No, I've seen bigger, but I'm still debating on whether or not I've seen better.

Once more, for those of you who are really interested and looking for information, ignore this post and continue on into the MO forums or another topic here.

Originally posted by Fariic

I actually like MO better then DF.
Been in beta since block A.  I've spent more time in this beta then I have in any released MMO in the past couple years.

Darkfall and Mortal Online are completely dif. games.
There is no comparing the two.
 

I'd like to point out.
The guys who are blasting MO as being bad,
Are Darkfall fans. 

Stop worrying.
MO isn't going to kill your game.
It's not even going to compete for the same audience.
People that prefer Darkfall are going to play Darkfall for the style of game it is. 

It's like trying to compare Shadowbane to UO. 
Not the same kind of games, and as much as Darkfall fans want to deny it, Shadowbane is exactly the kind of game AV intended to make.

 

Not really.

The thing that ticks me off somewhat about MO is their fans stating unbelievable claims such as MO will be more of a sandbox than DF, and quite a few times reading that the community is sooo much better etc.

I read the patch notes and follow all the leaks and know from personal experience some people are just overhyping the game. The reason why the community is better is because its tight knit just like DF's was perhaps 3 years ago, before the imbeciles showed up. Once its released forget about it, same as DF

Regarding the stat loss with MO, thats not sandbox that's just an artificial barrier. I dont like being PKd but I think a real sandbox should not penalise anyone's actions like that, its a different playstile that should be allowed in a real sandbox. 

Originally posted by tensspotting

MO will be more of a sandbox than DF

 It already is.

I read the patch notes and follow all the leaks and know from personal experience some people are just overhyping the game. The reason why the community is better is because its tight knit just like DF's was perhaps 3 years ago, before the imbeciles showed up. Once its released forget about it, same as DF

So basically, you know nothing about the game.

Regarding the stat loss with MO, thats not sandbox that's just an artificial barrier. I dont like being PKd but I think a real sandbox should not penalise anyone's actions like that, its a different playstile that should be allowed in a real sandbox. 

A sandbox game favors all play styles, not only gankers and PKs. If you don't put limits, and make the life of an outlaw harsh and hard, the game will be filled with gankers just like the failure that is DF. The people who think sandbox = ganking noobs without restriction, without consequences, can stick to DF. It's the kind of population we don't want to see in MO anyway. We can live without the "zomg roflcopter pwned noob /spit /spit" type of kiddy console/FPS reject players.

 Fact is Darkfall fanbois don't like what the see in the MO patch notes, because the MO devs are adding everything they promised, and also everything DF was supposed to contain and which was ditched under the cover of Tasos's lies. They already know MO is gonna be a more complete sandbox game catering to more than just facerolling PKs, and that makes them feel insecure about their own game.

MO crushes DF on many aspects already, crafting, mounts, taming, housing, reputation/alignment/pvp consequences, and each MO patch crushes it even more. Because unlike Tasos, the MO devs aren't just words and bragging on internet sites: they really put what they say into their game.