You know, as the topics of grouping goes on, more and more it just seams like its driven, or forced down that path in a game by the players, just like alot of jobs in many MMO's that were created for a certain task, but players found a more useful task for it and doesnt want said job around if they play it old school.

Anyways;

someone mentioned backing up what your insinuating.

So, try this instead, list the MMO your currently playing and tell us why you feell through your experience in that particular game, why you feel its a forced grouping game, or solo game. Why you feel you have to cry your alone because you've only got 10 mins to play and no one wants you around, etc...

Rather than the rant, give your experience why you feel you do, and the name of the game.

Its better then the retardation going around of everyone just claiming they're wronged by MMO's or forced into it without consent, so on.

Who knows, maybe weve also played the game(s) your refering to and can better sewe from other point of views.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Cephus404

Why?  Lots of people make that claim, nobody ever manages to actually back it up.  Just making a claim doesn't prove it's so.  Apparently, the overwhelming majority of MMO players want to play solo and since MMO companies exist to make money, shouldn't the majority of gameplay cater to the majority of players?

Lots of pro-groupers say that MMOs are about grouping, absolutely none of them have ever backed it up.  They just act like their own personal preferences make it so.

Most people playing MMOs would prefer to group - if it was practical and rewarding to do so. Most soloing is due to need, not preference.

Given the popularity of WOW (a solo-heavy game) and the vast popularity of singleplayer games in general (compared to multiplayer titles), I believe you're wrong on this point.

Originally posted by Axehilt 

Given the popularity of WOW (a solo-heavy game) and the vast popularity of singleplayer games in general (compared to multiplayer titles), I believe you're wrong on this point.

Players who want to solo, play those single-player games.

Players who want to group, play multi-player games and solo when they have to.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Axehilt 

Given the popularity of WOW (a solo-heavy game) and the vast popularity of singleplayer games in general (compared to multiplayer titles), I believe you're wrong on this point.

Players who want to solo, play those single-player games.

Players who want to group, play multi-player games and solo when they have to.

Do you have anything to back up this statement?

I ask as an MMO player whose preference is to solo and who only groups when I have to.

Originally posted by Vendegaar

Originally posted by laokoko

There should be a balance.  Allowing people to choose to solo or group.

And grant grouping slightly more exp and better drop.  Since they need to go through the fuzz of forming a group.

 

I disagree - Why should a bunch of incompetents get MORE/BETTER loot and more XP just because they need a herd to do the same thing someone else can do solo?

The problem of garthering a group is just a "cost of doing business" as we used to say when I WORKED for a living. If anything they should get LESS because they are NOT AS GOOD as the SOLOER. Let them learn how to play their class without having to have a HERD of people doing all the work.

This would be a forced solo game, if you use the term just like the solo players use the term forced grouping.

Well OP, I don't condone your efforts to promote how companies should make THEIR mmorpg.

Let's look at the land scape.  How are the pure sanbox games doing as a whole?  What do their concurrent subscriber numbers look like?  The same can be said about a pure PVE genre as a whole.  How do their numbers look?  Now let's look at a mixed genre and see how games look if they cater to PvPers, Groupers, and PvPers.  Are you getting the point yet?

These companies make games to turn a profit.  If they determine the best way for them to turn their own profit is to ensure there game is a pure sand box, great!  Pure PvE, great!  Mixture, great!  Point is, the financial success of their game will depend on their choice.  Just don't go blaming others because you game sucks and is void of players because people chose to play a game that offers more variety.

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Cephus404

Why?  Lots of people make that claim, nobody ever manages to actually back it up.  Just making a claim doesn't prove it's so.  Apparently, the overwhelming majority of MMO players want to play solo and since MMO companies exist to make money, shouldn't the majority of gameplay cater to the majority of players?

Lots of pro-groupers say that MMOs are about grouping, absolutely none of them have ever backed it up.  They just act like their own personal preferences make it so.

Most people playing MMOs would prefer to group - if it was practical and rewarding to do so. Most soloing is due to need, not preference.

 

Given the popularity of WOW (a solo-heavy game) and the vast popularity of singleplayer games in general (compared to multiplayer titles), I believe you're wrong on this point.

I agree. Most people on forums would prefer to group. The solo players dont 'need to be on a forum, they can go play one of the many solo friendly games that exist now.

Originally posted by Shannia

Well OP, I don't condone your efforts to promote how companies should make THEIR mmorpg.

Let's look at the land scape.  How are the pure sanbox games doing as a whole?  What do their concurrent subscriber numbers look like?  The same can be said about a pure PVE genre as a whole.  How do their numbers look?  Now let's look at a mixed genre and see how games look if they cater to PvPers, Groupers, and PvPers.  Are you getting the point yet?

These companies make games to turn a profit.  If they determine the best way for them to turn their own profit is to ensure there game is a pure sand box, great!  Pure PvE, great!  Mixture, great!  Point is, the financial success of their game will depend on their choice.  Just don't go blaming others because you game sucks and is void of players because people chose to play a game that offers more variety.

 

Variety = good solo game.

If you can solo the content or group and both are equally effective, then it's a solo game.

You're basically saying, give me a solo game and screw people that like to group. I don't mind ruining their content, and if they dont' like it they can solo. BUT., I'll say the game has "variety" and they should be happy with that because they can form a group if they want to.

Groupers don't want to form a group for no reason, they want to form a group to overcome a challenge.

Originally posted by madeux

Isn't it ironic that those of us who like to solo (a little or a lot) are more than willing to let other people group if thats how they choose to play.... but those who want forced grouping don't even want to allow us to play, they act as if we have no right to even try...   Strange, how people who are such assholes want people to be forced to group with them.  Perhaps because no one will play with them otherwise?

Because if you dial down the challenges so you can solo them, you have ruined the group content.

We don't want to force you to group. We want challenging content that is not ruined by the ability to solo it.

But you will never understand it, you can't stop thinking someone is dying to group with you to the point they want to make you do it, when actually no one wants to play the game with you at all.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Well OP, I don't condone your efforts to promote how companies should make THEIR mmorpg.

Let's look at the land scape.  How are the pure sanbox games doing as a whole?  What do their concurrent subscriber numbers look like?  The same can be said about a pure PVE genre as a whole.  How do their numbers look?  Now let's look at a mixed genre and see how games look if they cater to PvPers, Groupers, and PvPers.  Are you getting the point yet?

These companies make games to turn a profit.  If they determine the best way for them to turn their own profit is to ensure there game is a pure sand box, great!  Pure PvE, great!  Mixture, great!  Point is, the financial success of their game will depend on their choice.  Just don't go blaming others because you game sucks and is void of players because people chose to play a game that offers more variety.

 

 

Variety = good solo game.

If you can solo the content or group and both are equally effective, then it's a solo game.

You're basically saying, give me a solo game and screw people that like to group. I don't mind ruining their content, and if they dont' like it they can solo. BUT., I'll say the game has "variety" and they should be happy with that because they can form a group if they want to.

Groupers don't want to form a group for no reason, they want to form a group to overcome a challenge.

 

What is your point?  WoW has the best variety out there and soloers can't get best endgame stuff without grouping.  Your point is moot.  Otherwise you are are screw solo players, grouping is the only way to play.  We both pay the same $15 a month to play, so why can't we each play our own way and be happy?  FFS, I don't see solo players running around WoW with the latest T10 gear.  You only get it from grouping.

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Well OP, I don't condone your efforts to promote how companies should make THEIR mmorpg.

Let's look at the land scape.  How are the pure sanbox games doing as a whole?  What do their concurrent subscriber numbers look like?  The same can be said about a pure PVE genre as a whole.  How do their numbers look?  Now let's look at a mixed genre and see how games look if they cater to PvPers, Groupers, and PvPers.  Are you getting the point yet?

These companies make games to turn a profit.  If they determine the best way for them to turn their own profit is to ensure there game is a pure sand box, great!  Pure PvE, great!  Mixture, great!  Point is, the financial success of their game will depend on their choice.  Just don't go blaming others because you game sucks and is void of players because people chose to play a game that offers more variety.

 

 

Variety = good solo game.

If you can solo the content or group and both are equally effective, then it's a solo game.

You're basically saying, give me a solo game and screw people that like to group. I don't mind ruining their content, and if they dont' like it they can solo. BUT., I'll say the game has "variety" and they should be happy with that because they can form a group if they want to.

Groupers don't want to form a group for no reason, they want to form a group to overcome a challenge.

 

 

What is your point?  WoW has the best variety out there and soloers can't get best endgame stuff without grouping.  Your point is moot.  Otherwise you are are screw solo players, grouping is the only way to play.  We both pay the same $15 a month to play, so why can't we each play our own way and be happy?  FFS, I don't see solo players running around WoW with the latest T10 gear.  You only get it from grouping.

 

 

Raiding and leveling to cap are two different games.

I am discussing the leveling to the cap part of the game, not raiding, which I don't do.

The reason we can't both play and be happy, is you want to force me to play a solo friendly game, which destroys the grouping game I like, before the level cap.

Then you tell me I'm the one that can't let others play the game they want to. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I want to pay 15 bucks a month for a good grouping game. If I can solo the content, you've destroyed the challenge for me and it's not a fun game anymore.

Tell me how you can fix that so we can both enjoy the game?

Grouping =/= Raiding

I GROUP all the time!!! In WOW my group Rocks in some instances!!! Yup, my PET and I make the best group. My pet never complains about the "loot" drops. Does not complain about my healing!! Really does not talk back or tell me how I should play when im fighting those scary evil bad guys.. You know Humans, Elves,Dwarves.. and those dreaded Gnomes!!

Every once in a while I have a friend who is a dr00d .. I tell him hes toooo much  of a COW to make a good druid. When we group with him I feel like I am fighting next to a QUARTER POUNDER w/CHEESE ! But it works out well. He does not end up ground beef usually! My original group usually takes care of that!

Me and my pet(Studmuffin) prefer to work together and alone. Usually works out for the best! Just do not see what all this fuss about soloing/grouping is. I am glad I do not work alone or I may have taken offense to the OPs main thread.

We believe everyone should play how they want to play! If you want to group DO IT!! If you want to SOLO.. DO IT!!! Its not my affair... The only time it becomes my affair is when some LIBERAL RETARD tries to tell me how I should play.. Like what gives you a "right" to tell me what should or should not be?

Yup, if you want to profess how I should play you can always go where you belong!! Back up a certain GOP's skinny Arse!

TYVM!!!

Originally posted by xpowderx

I GROUP all the time!!! In WOW my group Rocks in some instances!!! Yup, my PET and I make the best group. My pet never complains about the "loot" drops. Does not complain about my healing!! Really does not talk back or tell me how I should play when im fighting those scary evil bad guys.. You know Humans, Elves,Dwarves.. and those dreaded Gnomes!!

Every once in a while I have a friend who is a dr00d .. I tell him hes toooo much  of a COW to make a good druid. When we group with him I feel like I am fighting next to a QUARTER POUNDER w/CHEESE ! But it works out well. He does not end up ground beef usually! My original group usually takes care of that!

Me and my pet(Studmuffin) prefer to work together and alone. Usually works out for the best! Just do not see what all this fuss about soloing/grouping is. I am glad I do not work alone or I may have taken offense to the OPs main thread.

We believe everyone should play how they want to play! If you want to group DO IT!! If you want to SOLO.. DO IT!!! Its not my affair... The only time it becomes my affair is when some LIBERAL RETARD tries to tell me how I should play.. Like what gives you a "right" to tell me what should or should not be?

Yup, if you want to profess how I should play you can always go where you belong!! Back up a certain GOP's skinny Arse!

TYVM!!!

You just contradicted yourself.

You're telling me how ot play, and saying no one should tell you how to play.

I want a game with challenging group content. If that content can be soloed, it's not a challenge and you've ruined the group content for me.

And yet you insist the solo content needs to be in the game, so no one else will tell someone how to play.

So you want to destroy the content in the game I like, then tell me you've given me a choice? WTF??!!

Originally posted by Ihmotepp 

You just contradicted yourself.

You're telling me how ot play, and saying no one should tell you how to play.

I want a game with challenging group content. If that content can be soloed, it's not a challenge and you've ruined the group content for me.

And yet you insist the solo content needs to be in the game, so no one else will tell someone how to play.

So you want to destroy the content in the game I like, then tell me you've given me a choice? WTF??!!

I'm curious; how did you feel about Age of Conan's levelling system?

If you've not played, I'll summarise .. when entering an area you are given a choice between solo or group. The two zones are identical in terms of quests, terrain, NPCs, etc .. the only difference is that if you enter a group area every mob is "elite" and requires a group to kill. They also drop better loot.

Is this a game that you are happy to play?

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by Shannia

Well OP, I don't condone your efforts to promote how companies should make THEIR mmorpg.

Let's look at the land scape.  How are the pure sanbox games doing as a whole?  What do their concurrent subscriber numbers look like?  The same can be said about a pure PVE genre as a whole.  How do their numbers look?  Now let's look at a mixed genre and see how games look if they cater to PvPers, Groupers, and PvPers.  Are you getting the point yet?

These companies make games to turn a profit.  If they determine the best way for them to turn their own profit is to ensure there game is a pure sand box, great!  Pure PvE, great!  Mixture, great!  Point is, the financial success of their game will depend on their choice.  Just don't go blaming others because you game sucks and is void of players because people chose to play a game that offers more variety.

 

 

Variety = good solo game.

If you can solo the content or group and both are equally effective, then it's a solo game.

You're basically saying, give me a solo game and screw people that like to group. I don't mind ruining their content, and if they dont' like it they can solo. BUT., I'll say the game has "variety" and they should be happy with that because they can form a group if they want to.

Groupers don't want to form a group for no reason, they want to form a group to overcome a challenge.

 

 

What is your point?  WoW has the best variety out there and soloers can't get best endgame stuff without grouping.  Your point is moot.  Otherwise you are are screw solo players, grouping is the only way to play.  We both pay the same $15 a month to play, so why can't we each play our own way and be happy?  FFS, I don't see solo players running around WoW with the latest T10 gear.  You only get it from grouping.

 

 

 

Raiding and leveling to cap are two different games.

I am discussing the leveling to the cap part of the game, not raiding, which I don't do.

The reason we can't both play and be happy, is you want to force me to play a solo friendly game, which destroys the grouping game I like, before the level cap.

Then you tell me I'm the one that can't let others play the game they want to. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

I want to pay 15 bucks a month for a good grouping game. If I can solo the content, you've destroyed the challenge for me and it's not a fun game anymore.

Tell me how you can fix that so we can both enjoy the game?

Grouping =/= Raiding

Who says you can't group all the way to 80 in WoW or most games like it?  If you can't, you are playing in the WRONG guild.  Matter of fact, I have seven level 80s and five of them went all the way 95% grouping.  The other two I didn't group at all until I hit 80.  If, and thati's a big if I log back in, my next adventure is going to be leveling to 60 with a toon solo and then PvPing my way to level cap.  See, more grouping in WoW.  The GROUPING is out there, you just have to go look for it in the right guild.

Originally posted by Ihmotepp

Originally posted by xpowderx

I GROUP all the time!!! In WOW my group Rocks in some instances!!! Yup, my PET and I make the best group. My pet never complains about the "loot" drops. Does not complain about my healing!! Really does not talk back or tell me how I should play when im fighting those scary evil bad guys.. You know Humans, Elves,Dwarves.. and those dreaded Gnomes!!

Every once in a while I have a friend who is a dr00d .. I tell him hes toooo much  of a COW to make a good druid. When we group with him I feel like I am fighting next to a QUARTER POUNDER w/CHEESE ! But it works out well. He does not end up ground beef usually! My original group usually takes care of that!

Me and my pet(Studmuffin) prefer to work together and alone. Usually works out for the best! Just do not see what all this fuss about soloing/grouping is. I am glad I do not work alone or I may have taken offense to the OPs main thread.

We believe everyone should play how they want to play! If you want to group DO IT!! If you want to SOLO.. DO IT!!! Its not my affair... The only time it becomes my affair is when some LIBERAL RETARD tries to tell me how I should play.. Like what gives you a "right" to tell me what should or should not be?

Yup, if you want to profess how I should play you can always go where you belong!! Back up a certain GOP's skinny Arse!

TYVM!!!

 

You just contradicted yourself.

You're telling me how ot play, and saying no one should tell you how to play.

I want a game with challenging group content. If that content can be soloed, it's not a challenge and you've ruined the group content for me.

And yet you insist the solo content needs to be in the game, so no one else will tell someone how to play.

So you want to destroy the content in the game I like, then tell me you've given me a choice? WTF??!

I insisted solo content needs to be in the game? Care to show me? I apologize if you have read my advocate threads. You must not play WOW. My pet and I is me.. Just me.. I never said you had to play anyway other than what you do already? Nor would I. I think you have me mixed up with someone else.

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I'm curious; how did you feel about Age of Conan's levelling system?

If you've not played, I'll summarise .. when entering an area you are given a choice between solo or group. The two zones are identical in terms of quests, terrain, NPCs, etc .. the only difference is that if you enter a group area every mob is "elite" and requires a group to kill. They also drop better loot.

Is this a game that you are happy to play?

If the rewards compensated for the increased inconvenience of grouping, then that sounds like a good system to me.

Mind you, that would mean the quests gave better rewards in a group instance, since the mobs are tougher.

From an outsider's point of view, AoC's system sounds much better than WoW's.

Originally posted by Shannia 

 

Who says you can't group all the way to 80 in WoW or most games like it?  If you can't, you are playing in the WRONG guild.  Matter of fact, I have seven level 80s and five of them went all the way 95% grouping.  The other two I didn't group at all until I hit 80.  If, and thati's a big if I log back in, my next adventure is going to be leveling to 60 with a toon solo and then PvPing my way to level cap.  See, more grouping in WoW.  The GROUPING is out there, you just have to go look for it in the right guild.

 

You can group for outdoor content in WoW, but the system punishes you for doing so.

More hassle + lesser reward = a disincentive to group.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Shannia 

 

Who says you can't group all the way to 80 in WoW or most games like it?  If you can't, you are playing in the WRONG guild.  Matter of fact, I have seven level 80s and five of them went all the way 95% grouping.  The other two I didn't group at all until I hit 80.  If, and thati's a big if I log back in, my next adventure is going to be leveling to 60 with a toon solo and then PvPing my way to level cap.  See, more grouping in WoW.  The GROUPING is out there, you just have to go look for it in the right guild.

 

You can group for outdoor content in WoW, but the system punishes you for doing so.

More hassle + lesser reward = a disincentive to group.

I completely disagree.  Over the course of a day of grouping, you will get far more xp and rewards grouping than soloing in level appropriate outdoor content simply from the fact that you'll be able to complete tons more quests in the same amount of time.  Questing is where the XP is in WoW for outdoor content until you get to 60.  60-80 is a HELL of a lot faster PvPing than questing from what I've been told.

Originally posted by AstralMystic

It is only the result of Ignorance. A massive multi player online role playing game.

This genre is like the seed of a great tree and the poison that does not allow It to grow is solo game design.

A gamer should be allowed to play the game and have experiences without grouping but the core component that is needed for this genre to grow is community and grouping.

Player interactivity, grouping and community is as important to keeping this genre alive as food is to our bodies.

Without It, It becomes a dead life form.

If you want to group, group.  I have yet to see any MMO where it's impossible to group if that's your thing. 

Oh, and one of the biggest turn offs to MMO grouping is finding someone who wants to tell me how I should play.  It makes me want to SOLO.