Originally posted by bluegrazz

I dont know or even think I know which Threads those would be. =P

I dont have an opinion as to if this (or any other Post/Thread) is a "shill" post. I am only commenting in that it DOES happen. It IS legal and (honestly) a company would be stupid NOT to have "shills".

 

 

Its a cut throat World buddy- You can think your beloved PC Game company is "above that"- They're not. And if a Marketing Firm (Division) doesnt practice in this SUPER CHEAP and LEGAL way to ADVERTISE- They aren't doing their job.

Not all posts/posters are without a PAID agenda- Most are Flaming Fanbois or Haters but NOT all- And the Shills are good at what they do- Good at fanning flames of debate- Good at getting their game talked about- Good at looking non-objective.

You can believe it or not.

Comperative marketing and/or degrading competitors products are illegal in many (most?) European countries. Fines are usually dished out as %-age of turnover...  Therefore, flaming shillers are most likely from US based companies. Maybe also Asian ones, though I do not know their legal system as it pertains to comparative marketing. 

Originally posted by Aercus

Originally posted by bluegrazz

I dont know or even think I know which Threads those would be. =P

I dont have an opinion as to if this (or any other Post/Thread) is a "shill" post. I am only commenting in that it DOES happen. It IS legal and (honestly) a company would be stupid NOT to have "shills".

 

 

Its a cut throat World buddy- You can think your beloved PC Game company is "above that"- They're not. And if a Marketing Firm (Division) doesnt practice in this SUPER CHEAP and LEGAL way to ADVERTISE- They aren't doing their job.

Not all posts/posters are without a PAID agenda- Most are Flaming Fanbois or Haters but NOT all- And the Shills are good at what they do- Good at fanning flames of debate- Good at getting their game talked about- Good at looking non-objective.

You can believe it or not.

Comperative marketing and/or degrading competitors products are illegal in many (most?) European countries. Fines are usually dished out as %-age of turnover...  Therefore, flaming shillers are most likely from US based companies. Maybe also Asian ones, though I do not know their legal system as it pertains to comparative marketing. 

This site runs on adverstisement. revenue as does all game publications. Which game company  spends the most on ads ?  Ever watch X Play on G4?  Ever hear a bad word about Blizz  come out of Morgan Webbs cute little mouth? Remember when Halo launched? Bungie/$soft spent a ton on ads and it got rave revues and any fan of shooters knows Halo is at best mediocre. Money talks and bullshit walks. Blizz will get preferential treatment everywhere as it pays for it.

Slander has to be "substantiated"- In other words, its pretty impossible to prove and with Billions of Opinions on the Internet from Billions of I.P.s- Impossible (costwise) to track and prove a specific post comes from a paid shill.

I dont think its "standard" (read: OPEN) practice to be a Shill Flamer- but I know it goes on and is impossible to prove. I do, however KNOW its standard practice to Buzz market and that Forum Mods are often dual specced (lol) as Marketers- They are also generally very good at their jobs and can steer conversation and appear objective. They also sign NDA's before Employment like most company's require.

I know this goes on- But to pick a specific thread/post and say "shill" is impossible (except with that Vangard cut/paste that comes around every 6 months) and the practice is legal.

First of all I'm not here to bash or promote a game because that is not what the thread is about. Its about shills. First let me give you a little background because most people never take the time to check your bio. I've been in computers since 1971. I have 3 degrees in computers including programming in COBOL/FORTAN, etc. I've been a MS Dev since 1995. I owned a ISP with locations in 5 cities. I've built and sold over 5000 systems in my life including NASA. My point is I've been around a very long time, and know a LOT of people. Do shills exist? Oh yes. I've had friends that were. Virtually every company in the world does it, not just gaming. It happens more than some people think and less that others, but it does happen. Has it happened on MMORPG? Oh yes. LOL it has. while i don't agree or condone it, it is legal and so its going to happen. I do have to give MMORPG.com some credit, it is hard to spot and even harder to prove. That's just the nature of shilling. Personally I play a game because I like it. I don't play it because I'm bored with it, burnt out, didn't like it whatever. I don't bother playing "fanboit" or "hater". (god i hate those over used terms) I'm disabled (dying from emphysema) so I have plenty of time to play now and I love gaming. Been doing it since 94. Prolly keep doing it till I die. Lol, in fact I had a heart attack last May while raiding in Wow with a friend. I was like, BBL i'm having a heart attack gotta go to the hospital, Ok ya had to be there it was funny.  In any case just being a avid fan or hater of a game does not make you a shill, but it also doesn't mean your not either. :)

Eh...they're entitled to their opinion.  I just find it amazing how much some of them post here on a religious basis even though they make it quite well known they cannot stand the game.  It's more amusing than anything to me.

EDIT: Oops, guess I should have read the topic better.  I believe I misunderstood the OP and thought this was in relation to those constantly hammering the game not what he was actually referring to.  I just don't see most companies really needing to do that.  I think more than anything you simply get some that feel a new game will threaten theirs or get pissed because they read over the forums and see their game supposedly going downhill thanks to the new game being hyped by some posters.  Others do it for laughs and how angry they can get people.  I'm not saying it doesn't exist at all, but I think most posts that some take as being that are simply regular people doing their thing on forums or avid fans of a particular game.

...and then there are those that are just expressing how they feel.  All the more power to them I say.  I'm just not sure why they don't simply move along but whatever floats their boat.  When i'm dissappointed with a game I simply move on.  I never felt the need to constantly bash the game on a forum those interested in the game went to nor the need to throw out petty insults over and over again like somehow those that enjoy the game are less intelligent or simply lack any knowledge of mmos so they don't know any better. 

Whatever gets them through the day though I guess. 

Originally posted by Nov8tr

 I'm disabled (dying from emphysema) so I have plenty of time to play now and I love gaming. Been doing it since 94. Prolly keep doing it till I die. Lol, in fact I had a heart attack last May while raiding in Wow with a friend. I was like, BBL i'm having a heart attack gotta go to the hospital, Ok ya had to be there it was funny.  In any case just being a avid fan or hater of a game does not make you a shill, but it also doesn't mean your not either. :)

Wow man, that sucks.  Sorry to hear that. 

Thnx dude, but np. I've had a great life, done more than most 10 people have. :) And still going at it. I've played over 40 games and currently playing like 6. I normally play/do forums from noon to 3AM. I'm a night owl and still having a blast.

Originally posted by Nov8tr

Thnx dude, but np. I've had a great life, done more than most 10 people have. :) And still going at it. I've played over 40 games and currently playing like 6. I normally play/do forums from noon to 3AM. I'm a night owl and still having a blast.

You have a great attitude.  Your  " bbl having a heart attack" was a great example of courage if you ask me. I worked with a guy that had three of them before he was forty and i was always amazed at how the guy laughed and joked about it. You hang in there.

---

Originally posted by vesavius
I can spot them, you can spot them, MMORPG can spot them, yet nothing is done about that shill posters that infect this board.
Tbc, I am NOT saying every post that dosent like Aion is a paid shill, or the fake alt account of the same guy attempting to protect his own little game, but it's obvious the majority are.
MMORPG policy states that we as users are not allowed to call out Shills, yet they themselves do nothing about it. I wish they would understand that shilling destroys the integrity and value of a games forum and makes it just worthless white noise junk.
I understand that Mods here are volunteers and have their own agendas in how they police the site, but c'mon... MMORPG.coms rep isnt the greatest out there anyhow, but allowing yourselves to be so heavily used as a viral marketing platform is giving it the final flush down the shitter.

---

For every Shill here there is an aion game employee or mmorpg employee here doing lots of cheerleading. Advertising pays the bills on this site. I take anything posted here with a grain of salt.

Reanim

Best, most informative thread I've read on this board since launch. Vesavius, spot on as usual. Lesson to be learned here is to always take what you read in forums with a grain of salt, and do not rely too much on posters' opinions when deciding whether to purchase a game.  

 Maybe just maybe people dont find it as fun as you.......just a thought.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Zeblade

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Surfrider

If you have questions or concerns regarding moderation of this site, you can email community@mmorpg.com.  Also, feel free to use the Report Button if you believe members are violating the ROC.

 

Exactly. Now this thread can be closed and all the drama queens can go home.

 

Agreed...

Why not post in the thread you THINK you know who it is pffft. But really what MMO has to worry about Aion? None

Put some names in here lol.. or just ignore them and..ooh wait. OMG..he is ONE of them!

 

 

 

Neither of you have added anything to this conversation except attempts to be rude and sarcastic.

Well what do you expect? Do you expect us to nod our heads gravely, take this thread seriously and agree that the shills who may not be shills are ruining our lives and leading us astray? Sorry if you are finding our input sarcastic but its really the only response suitable for this daft topic. You're making a load of fuss over nothing.......aka being a drama queen.

If a person is a shill then why the hell should I or anyone else care? Fanboys, trolls, shills and just people with a whole range of varying opinions and ideas........they're all part of the ingredients of debate as it bubbles away in the forums cooking pot. If a person ends up buying a game based purely on what a few individuals say who may or may not be a shill then who really cares? If the game is good and the person likes it then the shill has done them a favour. If the game is bad then.....oh no! The person has wasted their money on a game they dont like!! Quick! Run for the hills! The sky is raining fire! Spending money on a game you dont like?! Gosh no-ones ever done that before have they! Lock that shill up for ruining peoples lives!

What about a fanboy who is blindly obsessed with a game who influences someone with their opinion to buy it? That person has effectively done the same job as a shill. What are you gonna do? Ban them from the website? Every few months we see some cheesy advertising thread trying to convince people to sell their soul to Vancrap Saga of Boredom. I wonder how many hapless victims have been sucked into that one. The thing is it doesnt bloody matter. People pay money for games they end up hating all the time. I've done it loads in the past. Now I spend quite a lot of time reading various posts in forums about games I am thinking of buying. Its fairly easy to get an overall impression of peoples feedback and if a few of them happen to be shills then I cant say I've ever noticed or particularly care as it doesnt make much of a difference. I cant monitor every individual forum members personal agenda and I have no interest in doing. Only an extremely bored Billy-no-life would put effort into that. I dont put that much weight in the opinions of others anyway as reviews and game footage is the best way to judge a game anyway.

So really your thread is a complete waste of time......although it has been an entertaining read. Sorry you were'nt actually expecting some kind of result from all of this irrelevant rambling crap were you? Do you think the staff at mmorpg.com are gonna take this seriously, leap into action and go on a mad shill hunt? Yeah they should start interogating anyone who heavily supports or hates a game shouldnt they.......and then ban them from the website if they arent satisfied with the answers. Yeah that would be a grrrrreeeeaaat idea!

Or maybe they should just smile at you politely and leave you to it like some mad old rambling OAP in a queue in the supermarket.

Originally posted by neonwire

 

Well what do you expect? Do you expect us to nod our heads gravely, take this thread seriously and agree that the shills who may not be shills are ruining our lives and leading us astray? Sorry if you are finding our input sarcastic but its really the only response suitable for this daft topic. You're making a load of fuss over nothing.......aka being a drama queen.

If a person is a shill then why the hell should I or anyone else care? Fanboys, trolls, shills and just people with a whole range of varying opinions and ideas........they're all part of the ingredients of debate as it bubbles away in the forums cooking pot. If a person ends up buying a game based purely on what a few individuals say who may or may not be a shill then who really cares? If the game is good and the person likes it then the shill has done them a favour. If the game is bad then.....oh no! The person has wasted their money on a game they dont like!! Quick! Run for the hills! The sky is raining fire! Spending money on a game you dont like?! Gosh no-ones ever done that before have they! Lock that shill up for ruining peoples lives!

What about a fanboy who is blindly obsessed with a game who influences someone with their opinion to buy it? That person has effectively done the same job as a shill. What are you gonna do? Ban them from the website? Every few months we see some cheesy advertising thread trying to convince people to sell their soul to Vancrap Saga of Boredom. I wonder how many hapless victims have been sucked into that one. The thing is it doesnt bloody matter. People pay money for games they end up hating all the time. I've done it loads in the past. Now I spend quite a lot of time reading various posts in forums about games I am thinking of buying. Its fairly easy to get an overall impression of peoples feedback and if a few of them happen to be shills then I cant say I've ever noticed or particularly care as it doesnt make much of a difference. I cant monitor every individual forum members personal agenda and I have no interest in doing. Only an extremely bored Billy-no-life would put effort into that. I dont put that much weight in the opinions of others anyway as reviews and game footage is the best way to judge a game anyway.

So really your thread is a complete waste of time......although it has been an entertaining read. Sorry you were'nt actually expecting some kind of result from all of this irrelevant rambling crap were you? Do you think the staff at mmorpg.com are gonna take this seriously, leap into action and go on a mad shill hunt? Yeah they should start interogating anyone who heavily supports or hates a game shouldnt they.......and then ban them from the website if they arent satisfied with the answers. Yeah that would be a grrrrreeeeaaat idea!

Or maybe they should just smile at you politely and leave you to it like some mad old rambling OAP in a queue in the supermarket.

+1

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Zeblade

Originally posted by neonwire

Originally posted by Surfrider

If you have questions or concerns regarding moderation of this site, you can email community@mmorpg.com.  Also, feel free to use the Report Button if you believe members are violating the ROC.

 

Exactly. Now this thread can be closed and all the drama queens can go home.

 

Agreed...

Why not post in the thread you THINK you know who it is pffft. But really what MMO has to worry about Aion? None

Put some names in here lol.. or just ignore them and..ooh wait. OMG..he is ONE of them!

 

 

 

Neither of you have added anything to this conversation except attempts to be rude and sarcastic.

 

Well what do you expect? Do you expect us to nod our heads gravely, take this thread seriously and agree that the shills who may not be shills are ruining our lives and leading us astray? Sorry if you are finding our input sarcastic but its really the only response suitable for this daft topic. You're making a load of fuss over nothing.......aka being a drama queen.

I have no idea why you are posting like this Neon, but fair enough, go for it if it makes you feel better. I have no idea why tou seem so agressive and angry though. If you don't like the thread, just stay out of it, your not obliged to participate. Noone would mind if you didnt.

This will be my last response to you, I don't have the energy to argue with you or try and explain to you that theres a better way to express opinions then through insulting others and being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Stikato

Best, most informative thread I've read on this board since launch. Vesavius, spot on as usual. Lesson to be learned here is to always take what you read in forums with a grain of salt, and do not rely too much on posters' opinions when deciding whether to purchase a game.  

exactly, thanks Stik :)

Originally posted by vesavius

Why isnt MMORPG dealing with the obvious shills on this forum?

What is the point? They are obvious anyway, so there is no harm. Anyone can spot them and ignore what they say.

It's the shills who are not so obvious that are the real problem. They actually can manage to influence people if they are not recognized. And if they are really good, then mmorpg.com moderators can't spot them either.

The obvious shils are hardly a problem to get worked up about.

Now give us some names to make this topic more interesting

Honestly the only shilling I've seen is from Atlantica Online. Seriously it never moves from MMORPG's #2 spot and any game that gets close suddenly gets a bunch of bad reviews and this turd gets a bunch of good reviews, placing it back into its little #2 or #1 nest. Most annoying.

Its easy to spot though, it and the games like it never even get close to top 10 on the popularity charts, doesnt even get 1000 hits a day.