Originally posted by Danescu

[quote]Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

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That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

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Most people in here are moaning about the game not being Trek, not that it doesn't feel like Trek (hard to make that assumption when the game hasn't been even tested by outsiders yet).

And yet I can look at what BioWare is doing, and the info they have released and say with a resounding YES, that BioWare understands Star Wars, and that SW:TOR feels like the Star Wars universe.

Now I happen to think Cryptic is a skilled company that has unfortunately made some really bad decisions with STO. I think they could have done for Star Trek what BioWare is doing for Star Wars. But alas, they have decided not to.

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by Danescu

[quote]Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

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That's the point - this game will look like Trek, but won't feel like Trek.

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Most people in here are moaning about the game not being Trek, not that it doesn't feel like Trek (hard to make that assumption when the game hasn't been even tested by outsiders yet).

 

And yet I can look at what BioWare is doing, and the info they have released and say with a resounding YES, that BioWare understands Star Wars, and that SW:TOR feels like the Star Wars universe.

Now I happen to think Cryptic is a skilled company that has unfortunately made some really bad decisions with STO. I think they could have done for Star Trek what BioWare is doing for Star Wars. But alas, they have decided not to.

Its more that they are cutting corners on design to meet thier obligation to Paramount in the time allotted.  I would go as far as say Chamipions probably suffered its crappy launch as a result of Paramount's insistance on staying on schedule.  This is a theme that rang true for another "Star" MMO.

tbh i would play this game if they took a SWG approach (not saying i want the game exactly like it). As in you're main person is yourself .... and you build a starship and pilot it with others, not giving every single person in the game their own starship. I dunno it loses its feel when there are a couple hundred thousand other people just like you with a ship. It also may not be completely star trek since alot of the episodes were spent on the ship, but i would enjoy the fact owning and captaining/piloting a ship meant something.

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

 

 

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.

To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Originally posted by JYCowboy

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Also: what's canon about away teams comprised of several captains?

What!!!??? Several captains have worked to gether on away teams have not seen the movies?

 

(AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH ..stops and looks at 7 of 9.....falls in love.....)

 

Most Star Trek adventures are one problem, one ship, one captian and one crew.  Very seldom is there more than one of any of these except problems.

 

You and many others are being extremely linear here and focusing on the limitation from 1 captain or crew's perspective. Star Trek  has many ships...many crews...many problems from varing races and empires. Im sorry folks but forced grouping and limiting play on the whims of others being online isnt cool or going to last long.

(AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH Dances with 7 of 9)

...and once you have played out the limited content on your three different Captains (Eng., Sci, Command), you leave without a care to what the game offers further.

(7 pull you close and says, "Resistance is futile, you will be assimulated" as she injects you with Borg Nanites.  You then become another MMO drone.)

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

 

 

 

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.

To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

Totally agree, Cerion.

Focus niche market, then broaden out much like EVE.

I like the direction crytic is going and hope they don't ever head in the direction of crewing a startship, way too boring for me.  Since you guys just can't quit crying over the direction maybe this would help silence your unwarrented critisim, call it Star Fleet battles!  I love that old board game and if they want to head in that direction its fine by me.  At least my crowd won't whine everyday because they added in contant such as planet exploration and crew member NPC's!  I actually celebrate the additions!

Originally posted by Cerion

Originally posted by RavingRabbid

Sorry but the game is built attract different types of players not just the hard core ST fans. Like i said they could implement an option for player who want to do this and they can do it.

 

 

 

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.

To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

Just because you cannot conceive it, does not make it inconceivable.  Appealing to varying audiences is the key to a successful MMO.  The fact is, there just aren't enough Star Trek nerds out there to make the game viable on it's own.  Without a broad audience, it will fail.

"To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. "

You assume to much as I'm betting most of with opposing views are Star Trek fans also.  I've been a fan since the late 60's and I certainly don't want anything to do with a game that based on crew members.  No matter how many times you guys say what each crew member will do durning a mission it always equates to BORING in my opinion.  I'd rather play a red shirt and die fast then hang around the bridge/engine room/etc pretending to do some repetitive mudane task required just to provide me with busy work.  How much do you really thinkl they can add to mission to somehow keep every member busy doing something that is both meaningful and FUN?  I forsee 90% boredom and 10% action if a game was truely based on crew members.  The crew member idea is appealing to the "old camping crowd" of EQ as it more a social event/gathering, you won't see any major company trying to please such a minority.

The crew of your ship should be more than a simple stat. That is the easy way out. Of course I'm not surprised. Virtually everything Cryptic puts out about STO is garbage in my opinion.

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Originally posted by Cerion

False dichotomy...It is not inconceivable to design a game that appeals to hard core ST fans AND other types of players. Of course one HAS to draw the line somewhere with these so-called 'other types of players' since including Grandma who enjoys a nice game of Bridge with her friends probably can't be persuaded.
To me it makes more sense to design the game for ST Fans, and then grow the size of your net to capture other players. Why? Because how many of you self-ascribed 'other players' are going to abandon your current game, you  know the game that the devs designed for that 'other player', and join on to Star Trek? And then when the next game comes along that's designed for 'other players', you'll jump the Star Trek ship for that one, and so on, and so on.  If you design the game for Star Trek Fans, then you have them locked in. They won't be going anywhere. Whereas many of the fly-by-night 'other players' will be soon gone no matter what you design.

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Ha ha! Forward thinking and sound reasoning are not something you typically find in dev teams...at least not when they have to think about paying back that 50 mil their employer borrowed to make the game in the first place.

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Originally posted by madeux
Just because you cannot conceive it, does not make it inconceivable.  Appealing to varying audiences is the key to a successful MMO.  The fact is, there just aren't enough Star Trek nerds out there to make the game viable on it's own.  Without a broad audience, it will fail.
 

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You're saying that there aren't a few hundred thousand Star Trek fans who would be in to playing a Star Trek MMO? Let's not get carried away with WoW numbers. They are an outlier. Success of an MMO does not have hinge on having over a million subs, nor over a half million. Of course different people have different ideas of success but any western developer going in to match or beat WoW's numbers or even get a million subs has unrealistic expectations.

Not saying that tookg and hope you find a developer who wants to go in that direction.  At the same time Cryptic never wanted to go in that direction and so complaining about it now sounds like sour grapes.  When the old developer was headed in a direction you favored, i took a look, saw it as totally off base of anything I was remotely interested in and left the site.  What i didn't do is complain daily on how they were not going in the direction i wanted, after all they told me up front what their vision was.  Bottom line is this game isn't for the "crewmember" crowd so get over it!

Originally posted by TookyG

 

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Originally posted by madeux
Just because you cannot conceive it, does not make it inconceivable.  Appealing to varying audiences is the key to a successful MMO.  The fact is, there just aren't enough Star Trek nerds out there to make the game viable on it's own.  Without a broad audience, it will fail.
 

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You're saying that there aren't a few hundred thousand Star Trek fans who would be in to playing a Star Trek MMO? Let's not get carried away with WoW numbers. They are an outlier. Success of an MMO does not have hinge on having over a million subs, nor over a half million. Of course different people have different ideas of success but any western developer going in to match or beat WoW's numbers or even get a million subs has unrealistic expectations.

I will certainly say that there are not a few hundred thousand Star Trek fans who will play this game.  There are plenty of fans, but how many of them will be into this game?

Look at how poorly Star Trek movies regularly do in theaters?  The success of the recent film was mostly due to it's appeal to a larger audience.

Originally posted by buegur

Not saying that tookg and hope you find a developer who wants to go in that direction.  At the same time Cryptic never wanted to go in that direction and so complaining about it now sounds like sour grapes.  When the old developer was headed in a direction you favored, i took a look, saw it as totally off base of anything I was remotely interested in and left the site.  What i didn't do is complain daily on how they were not going in the direction i wanted, after all they told me up front what their vision was.  Bottom line is this game isn't for the "crewmember" crowd so get over it!

...I wasn't quoting you.  However, I'll respond to your response to a response you thought was to you.  

I didn't say I was part of the crew member crowd.  I said I think that crew should be more than a stat.  My feathers aren't ruffled about not being able to play a crew member on a ship.  I find the direction development has taken to be unfavorable, and express that through this forum and the official one, but that doesn't mean I'm being unreasonable in my opinion and need to "get over it" like I'm in some sort of fit of rage.

Not only will STO do well, it will probably exceed at least a few expectations. Looking at what they are trying to accomplish as well as setting the timeline ahead of Nemesis was a brilliant idea. The ships being talked about that can be attained by rank and by accomplishment is really incredible. STO will not only have Star Trek fans playing but it will most assuredly bring in Sci-fi lovers/gamers as well. It may not be as huge a hit as Star Wars The Old Republic Online will do, but I feel it will hold itself in pretty good stead. I predict numbers around or better than City of Heroes for STO... and that ain't shabby!

Originally posted by bluegrazz

Originally posted by DeaconX

I'm sure I'll probably get flamed for this, but I still think it would have been a lot cooler design for the game if it took 'guilds' to run large ships... if the game leant more towards a 'simulation' feel.  I could be totally wrong... we'll see what Cryptic does.. but after playing Champions Online, I'm not expecting anything revolutionary or even really impressive...

 

This would be an AWESOME idea. Yeah, it would end up with a much smaller player base but could be really cool... REALLY COOL.

And it'd only cost 1000 bucks a month since its subscriber base would be so small.

"but that doesn't mean I'm being unreasonable in my opinion and need to "get over it" like I'm in some sort of fit of rage."

Was too harsh, but don't understand why the constant complaining daily of a game that wasn't designed for those that are complaining.  If Cryptic had said the game mechanics were being designed around crew members and than they dropped it or butchered it, than some critisicm would be valid.  Even than daily complaining about it would be over the top in my opinion, say your peace and move on.  I did that when SWG went in another direction, said my piece and moved on. 

Originally posted by buegur

"but that doesn't mean I'm being unreasonable in my opinion and need to "get over it" like I'm in some sort of fit of rage."

 

Was too harsh, but don't understand why the constant complaining daily of a game that wasn't designed for those that are complaining.  If Cryptic had said the game mechanics were being designed around crew members and than they dropped it or butchered it, than some critisicm would be valid.  Even than daily complaining about it would be over the top in my opinion, say your peace and move on.  I did that when SWG went in another direction, said my piece and moved on. 

As I'm not one who is posting daily, or even reading the forums daily, I can only surmise that it's because they are offering counter-points to the arguments presented to them.  Would it not be over the top for supporters of game X to post daily if it's over the top for its detractors to post daily?

If they were actually addressing problems with what the designers were trying to accomplish, that could be useful. Complaining about a aspect of the game the designers aren't including is over the top. This site is known for its trolls complaining about every new game, but this is a new low in my opinion.  People daily complaining about stuff thats was never meant to be in the game is even odd for this site.

Originally posted by madeux

Just because you cannot conceive it, does not make it inconceivable.  Appealing to varying audiences is the key to a successful MMO.  The fact is, there just aren't enough Star Trek nerds out there to make the game viable on it's own.  Without a broad audience, it will fail.

 

There are millions of Trek fans out there. IMO, a combat-heavy, RP-lite MMO will appeal to far fewer of them than a player crew and story-focused game would.