Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by blueshadow 

If you read the latest patch notes and previous. You will probably see that they put a lot more effort into the actuall game than just adding new items to trading cards.

The essence and irony in lots of critisism against SWG is that it comes from people not playing the game at all.. or that have not been there for 4 years.

Lots of stuff has happened and the game is good. But its only good for you if you play it.

We could all wish that more resources would be put into SWG. A new expansion would be awesome. Awesome because what is really good would have been even better.

But who knows what may come? And what wrote as OP in this thread still stands in my mind. SWG today is a very good game but obviously, like all good games. It will not make everyone happy. Its FAR from perfect. But still very good. And its the only true Sandbox out there (I do not count in EVE as the avatar, being spaceship is not everyones cup of tea). Obviously Eve is an amazingly good game for the ones that likes it.

 

 

Did you watch the video I posted of the SWG fan faire panel?  You know the one where paying members complain to soe about the card game getting more updates than the actual game?  That pretty much crushes your safety net that it is only non-customers complaining.  You work so hard to find an excuse to discredit the people posting that you completely miss what is being discussed.

Just because you chose to subscribe doesn't mean you are more educated and have the only valid opinion.  It isn't exactly hard to activate a vet trial and play the game.  I understand that you like aspects of the game, but that doesn't mean you get to make baseless assumptions about anyone who disagrees with you. 

 

I  saw it.. but I have seen so many videos from so many games fan faires.. and there are always people "complaining" or . giving constructive feedback about almost anything..  ( Since most people are just passsionate about their games.. calling it complaints might be wrong.)

Maybe not the best feature of the game for everyone,, but certainly not game breaking.

I only wish that they had made those card for real. I  would have collected them then.

If they start to add things like "best in slot"  items.. or dungeons that are only accessible if you play or have trading card game.. then I  would completely agree with you.

Again only my point of view. As a current SWG  player I  don't see much problems with it.. So far.

But yes.. people, including myself would love to see more resources put into SWG. Not because its horrible, but because its good and we want more of it. I think that is the case for those at that fan faire too.. since people traveling to fan faires are fans of agame.. and I  never claimed SOE is doing everything right.. maybe trading card proves to be wrong.. SWG is not perfect. No games are perfect.

Originally posted by blueshadow

I  saw it.. but I have seen so many videos from so many games fan faires.. and there are always people "complaining" or . giving constructive feedback about almost anything..  ( Since most people are just passsionate about their games.. calling it complaints might be wrong.)

Maybe not the best feature of the game for everyone,, but certainly not game breaking.

I only wish that they had made those card for real. I  would have collected them then.

If they start to add things like "best in slot"  items.. or dungeons that are only accessible if you play or have trading card game.. then I  would completely agree with you.

Again only my point of view. As a current SWG  player I  don't see much problems with it.. So far.

But yes.. people, including myself would love to see more resources put into SWG. Not because its horrible, but because its good and we want more of it. I think that is the case for those at that fan faire too.. since people traveling to fan faires are fans of agame.. and I  never claimed SOE is doing everything right.. maybe trading card proves to be wrong.. SWG is not perfect. No games are perfect.

 

 

 

 

You don't see a problem with it?

What if the loot cards had the 30 buffs from entertainers instead of you being able to use them when you play.  Would that be game breaking for you?  Would you still say that is isn't game breaking if your class was the one being deprived of that content?

Now ask the crafters who makes houses, vehicles, clothes and other loot card items how they feel about loots cards getting more attention and updates than they have in the last four years.  Please don't answer with the latest patch that added a fraction of what the loot cards have. 

I fully expected you to say "if it is game breaking items then it will be a problem".  Which is the same exact things eq2 players said in defense of the loot cards over there.  They defended the card game as harmless and look where that is.   SWG is next, so please don't complain when it happens, because you had your chance. 

Also, you said the loot cards don't affect the game, but they are being used as virtual currency for in game items/money.  So yes it does affect the game.  Why did you ignore that?

"certainly not game breaking"

LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on?

I SAY ROFL

Originally posted by IRNUB

"certainly not game breaking"

LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on?

I SAY ROFL

 We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:

Architect:
I  was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name.  It is called Trader (structure).

Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).

Trader Classes today are like this:

• Trader (Domestic Goods) = Chef / Tailor
• Trader (Munitions) = Weaponsmith/Armorsmith
• Trader (Engineering) = Droid/Weaponsmith
• Trader (Structures) = Architect/Shipwright

When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.

Politician:

Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints.  And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun :)

Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.

Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master..  Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.

more info about those things here:

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Trader

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Master

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by IRNUB

"certainly not game breaking"

LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on?

I SAY ROFL

 We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:

Architect:
I  was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name.  It is called Trader (structure).

Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).

Trader Classes today are like this:

• Trader (Domestic Goods) = Chef / Tailor
• Trader (Munitions) = Weaponsmith/Armorsmith
• Trader (Engineering) = Droid/Weaponsmith
• Trader (Structures) = Architect/Shipwright

When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.

Politician:

Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints.  And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun :)

Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.

Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master..  Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.

 

more info about those things here:

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Trader

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Master

Im sorry, thats not much of a comfort to people that lost their chars. The Creature Handler (for example) was DELETED and NOW it was releases as a new (CLASS). And that was released as a new feature??? lol

Im sorry, but im not impressed by the least :)

Originally posted by IRNUB

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by IRNUB

"certainly not game breaking"

LOL, is that what you say to people that lost their Creature Handler? Architect? Politician? Should i go on?

I SAY ROFL

 We were actually talking about the trading card game and impact on SWG.. but since you mention it:

Architect:
I  was a Master architect back in old SWG on one of my 5 characters (yes.. 5 accounts) and I am still architect on that character today. Architect is alive and well in SWG. It has just changed name.  It is called Trader (structure).

Traders today are basically 4 classes. (so in reality SWG has 12 classes + "sub" classes like beast master).

Trader Classes today are like this:

• Trader (Domestic Goods) = Chef / Tailor
• Trader (Munitions) = Weaponsmith/Armorsmith
• Trader (Engineering) = Droid/Weaponsmith
• Trader (Structures) = Architect/Shipwright

When mastering one of these 4 classes, you can respec between all of them.

Politician:

Is still in the game.
Politician was actually just a annoying and troubled profession back in Vanilla days of SWG as you got XP once pr. week due to how many of citizens had voted for you etc.. and being a master politician took almost half of your skillpoints.  And that just to be able to put out trainers and stuff in your city for the pleasure of all those that could spend their skillpoints on something fun :)

Today every character can be a politician without having to sacrifice anything. You level in this profession the same way as before.

Creature handler.
While being the least played class in vanilla SWG it was one of the most missed. But its basically back in the game under the expertise system and was launched in update 6. It is now called beast master..  Every class and characters can put points in beastmaster.

 

more info about those things here:

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Trader

http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Beast_Master

Im sorry, thats not much of a comfort to people that lost their chars. The Creature Handler (for example) was DELETED and NOW it was releases as a new (CLASS). And that was released as a new feature??? lol

Im sorry, but im not impressed by the least :)

 

No one lost their characters. No characters were deleted. When you loged into the game after the NGE you were prompted to pick a new calss withint the new character class system. If you have not been loging into the game since NGE, you will have to do that selection next time you log in. 


Without a shadow of a doubt,  NGE should not have happened the way it did, and may of us experienced grief for the class and class combination that we lost.


But  the whole thread here was aimed at talking about what the game is now, not what it was. We can all miss the past. But what is gone is gone. If you can leave the bad things in the past behind and look at the game at its current state  It us a very good game in 2009.


You have to take it for what it is and play it, or play the other games that are around.  In my opinion most other games do not offer the broad range of options and freedom that Star Wars  Galaxies still has even though it is certainly not perfect and some of the features of the past are missed. Still Entertainers, the crafting system, player cities, all the fluff items from loot cards, veteran rewards etc. to decorate your house makes it a unique game.


SOE has done many blunders. No doubt about it.  I am not a fan of SOE, I  just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn. As all companies they will still continue to do mistakes and they will continue to do right things. And so does all MMORPG  companies out there. 


When playing an MMORPG  you are basically in a eternal beta. SWG  was a mess after NGE. They basically reprogrammed the whole game. So it took years for them to "beta" test NGE  with us players. Now that is not a good thing. But non the less. That painfull period resulted in something that is a very good game today and that is what I  focus on. What is today. Leave the past. Looking back too much leaves you walking backwards into the future.

I see where you are coming from mate. Im not trying to flame you or anything.

It's GREAT that you love the game.But you can't forget what SOE did and that is where you have the problem. I hope all the best to all the new SWG players but please do not compare it to the old PRE-CU game please. If you did play that one, you know what i am talking about right?

Be honest. You can't really compare can you? :)

Originally posted by IRNUB

I see where you are coming from mate. Im not trying to flame you or anything.

It's GREAT that you love the game.But you can't forget what SOE did and that is where you have the problem. I hope all the best to all the new SWG players but please do not compare it to the old PRE-CU game please. If you did play that one, you know what i am talking about right?

Be honest. You can't really compare can you? :)

Hmm.. honest answer. Yes I  think it can. Because there were many downsides of SWG back in the days too. I  felt that basically everyone grinded to be a jedi back then. That horrible grind is gone.

I was very captured in the mindset of a disgrunted Vet, but as the game in its current state grew on me I can honestly say that if they reverted the game there are lots of options that are in the game now that I  would miss. I mean, one of my favourite classes, the entertainer is nothing but improved. And its improved big time. Would I  love more dances thought ?.. yes.

And most Sandbox elements that I enjoyed are still there. So that is why I am happy. If they had only made an expansion pack that would be awesome.

But obviously the whole NGE idea and how it was put to life was a disaster back then and something that the game suffers from today, not as a game, but with the broken reputation that keeps people unwilling to try it again. I  could be really bitter too. NGE  took away 3 years of SWG playing time for me and almost all my friends. But its starting to feel good again now as many friends are back and I found a lot of new.

Obviously all old games looses a bit of its sparkle and just that fresh feeling of being new and I am a lot more seasoned MMO player today than i  was back in 2005. But seeing the game again gives me a good feeling, and SWG  has this freedom and sandbox system that really never gets old the way other games does.

Now.. this is just my opinion. But since you asked I had to answer.

To the O.P., the reason I posted a bunch of your quotes, is that all of them were inaccurate.  Everything you said about SWG in those quotes (because of language or for whatever reason) was simply wrong.

Here are two more quotes, that you posted more recently, that are simply untrue:

"In swg. TCG items does not affect gameplay in any other way than that someone wants to buy those items."

and

"Items you get are just fluff and not game breaking in any ways."

It's well known that some of the TCG items enhance combat abilities (i.e. buffs).  That, by definition, is not "fluff."  A fluff item would be a new costume part in a game like City of Heroes.  They are just for show.  Fluff would be a picnic basket in a game like WoW.  They do not affect gameplay.  Also, the TCG items offer vehicles that in some cases have superior abilities.  This has been well-documented in numerous posts, and verified by current players.

Furthermore, SWG has an ingame economy with crafters.  Other games, like City of Heroes, do not have players who make vehicles, structures, space-ships etc..  To add a costume part in CoH does not take business away from players.  To sell vehicles, structures, space-ships etc. in a game like SWG, however, takes business away from players who are paying a subscription fee to sell their virtual goods to other players.

What I'm trying to highlight is that the things you say to try to promote your game of choice simply seem untrue, or incorrect.  I'd like to read about what's new in SWG, but I prefer it when the information provided is accurate. 

Responding to this comment from the O.P.:

"And most Sandbox elements that I enjoyed are still there."

Simply put, most of the sandbox elements that I enjoyed are not still there.  More than anything, I enjoyed the skill system and the ability to mix and match numerous professions on one character.  The choices were incredible, and without the level system and static classes, the game was much more immersive.

I also liked how all of the various professions 30+ interacted with one another to form a virtual world.  An online RMT store would have been unheard of in the original game as it would have been completely immersion-breaking.  It would also interfere with the way players interacted with one another in the ingame economy.

Now, you have a level system, you must select a class from only 9 options, and immersion as well as the economy are impinged upon by Sony's new RMT plus subscription business model.  Also, the linear quests that were introduced instead of the sandbox system are, imo, incredibly boring and repetitive (e.g. Legacy Quest).

I found it much more enjoyable building a community with people in the StarWars universe, playing in the cantina, mastering Teras Kasi, and unravelling the mysteries of the force, all at the same time with hundreds of thousands of other players across the globe.  

Originally posted by blueshadow

SOE has done many blunders. No doubt about it.  I am not a fan of SOE, I  just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn. As all companies they will still continue to do mistakes and they will continue to do right things. And so does all MMORPG  companies out there. 


When playing an MMORPG  you are basically in a eternal beta. SWG  was a mess after NGE. They basically reprogrammed the whole game. So it took years for them to "beta" test NGE  with us players. Now that is not a good thing. But non the less. That painfull period resulted in something that is a very good game today and that is what I  focus on. What is today. Leave the past. Looking back too much leaves you walking backwards into the future.

 

Soes mistakes are not mistakes in the same way other companies make mistakes.  Another company might make a mistake by nerfing a skill to much or crashing servers or patch day.  Those are mistakes.  Comparing soes actions to other companies is misleading at best.

Soe doesn't make "mistakes", because they fully know the effects of thier "mistakes" before they even implement them.   It is not a mistake when soe admits that they know players will not like the changes and they know players will quit over the changes.  The only mistakes soe might make in these cases is not generating as much revenue as they predicted.  The negative effect they intentionally inflict on their players is not a mistake.  It is a calculated risk that they know in advance.

I have already shown you several examples of soe displaying this attitude in several of their games.  You should really stop misleading people in your quest to do whatever it is you are doing with swg. 

As for the game being in beta, 4 years is a long time to expect people to pay for a beta test.   I'm pretty certain the 4 years worth of effort would be devoured in a few short months leaving you in a position of starving for game updates for the next 4 years that are only going to get smaller and further apart as the dev team continues to lose experienced members. 

In response to this comment from the O.P.:

"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."

Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn.  What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE?  Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other.  We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress.  We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.

Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2.  SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games.  Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay.  Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?

Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers.  Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program.  Transfers are not server mergers.  Now, let's take this a step further.  At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from.  Those servers should of course still be open then right?  Wrong.  Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.

People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place.  People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed.  They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.

Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments.  SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right?  Wrong.  When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased.  No conversion, at all. 

How about changing the business model of a live game?  SOE wouldn't do that would they?  Yes, they would.  SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game.  Was there a backlash to this change?  Of course there was.  In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.

Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG.  The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers.  The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them.  One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. 

So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other?  Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games?  Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release?  From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

In response to this comment from the O.P.:

"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."

Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn.  What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE?  Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other.  We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress.  We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.

Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2.  SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games.  Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay.  Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?

Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers.  Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program.  Transfers are not server mergers.  Now, let's take this a step further.  At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from.  Those servers should of course still be open then right?  Wrong.  Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.

People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place.  People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed.  They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.

Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments.  SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right?  Wrong.  When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased.  No conversion, at all. 

How about changing the business model of a live game?  SOE wouldn't do that would they?  Yes, they would.  SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game.  Was there a backlash to this change?  Of course there was.  In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.

Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG.  The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers.  The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them.  One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. 

So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other?  Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games?  Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release?  From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.

This post  (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html

(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).

I have read all posts before mine and I agree with alot and disagree with alot Either 2 things should happen to make THIS customer happy revert the game to pre-CU or KILL the dang game. SWG just die dangit DIE!!!

SWG today is much better than the initial NGE version.  I do however still miss the old, in many ways i wish they could combine the two.  I really wish the skill based system was still in place.  Ive tried a lot of the games out there but i still find myself going back to SWG.  I do love the freedom and house system, but i wish they would do more to add to the GCW!

SWG is probably the worst current running mmo on the market in terms of quality and gameplay.

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

In response to this comment from the O.P.:

"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."

Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn.  What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE?  Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other.  We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress.  We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.

Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2.  SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games.  Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay.  Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?

Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers.  Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program.  Transfers are not server mergers.  Now, let's take this a step further.  At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from.  Those servers should of course still be open then right?  Wrong.  Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.

People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place.  People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed.  They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.

Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments.  SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right?  Wrong.  When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased.  No conversion, at all. 

How about changing the business model of a live game?  SOE wouldn't do that would they?  Yes, they would.  SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game.  Was there a backlash to this change?  Of course there was.  In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.

Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG.  The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers.  The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them.  One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. 

So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other?  Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games?  Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release?  From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.

This post  (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html

(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).

 

 

So the best you can do to refute Arc's post, Blue, is to make a reference to the server merges thread, along with a snarky comment about him editing a post?

You've got nothing regarding the other issues he brought up in that post? No rebuttals? No counter-arguments to use in this debate? Just the snarky comment about server merges?

You're just going to ignore the issues he brought up and hope they go away, hoping no one will call you on it? I don't always agree with Arc (usually regarding CoX), but he brings up  very compelling and valid points here. Yet you're just going to sweep them under the rug and not address them -- like they never happened.

Lame.

Arc +1 (at least)

Originally posted by Harleyrider

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

In response to this comment from the O.P.:

"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."

Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn.  What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE?  Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other.  We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress.  We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.

Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2.  SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games.  Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay.  Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?

Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers.  Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program.  Transfers are not server mergers.  Now, let's take this a step further.  At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from.  Those servers should of course still be open then right?  Wrong.  Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.

People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place.  People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed.  They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.

Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments.  SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right?  Wrong.  When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased.  No conversion, at all. 

How about changing the business model of a live game?  SOE wouldn't do that would they?  Yes, they would.  SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game.  Was there a backlash to this change?  Of course there was.  In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.

Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG.  The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers.  The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them.  One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. 

So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other?  Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games?  Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release?  From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.

This post  (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html

(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).

 

 

So the best you can do to refute Arc's post, Blue, is to make a reference to the server merges thread, along with a snarky comment about him editing a post?

You've got nothing regarding the other issues he brought up in that post? No rebuttals? No counter-arguments to use in this debate? Just the snarky comment about server merges?

You're just going to ignore the issues he brought up and hope they go away, hoping no one will call you on it? I don't always agree with Arc (usually regarding CoX), but he brings up  very compelling and valid points here. Yet you're just going to sweep them under the rug and not address them -- like they never happened.

Lame.

Arc +1 (at least)

Heh, thanks Rider.  CoH is okay ^_^.  Lots of good stuff going on there still imo.  I just didn't like they way they did the PvP revamp.  Just so happens I had spent my last 6 months building some PvP toons that were wrecked by the changes lol.  Also, I think the PvP community had some good ideas that were overlooked.  Really that's about it.

Great PVE in the game imo, lots of cool zones, quests, taskforces etc., but I digress.  Anyways, I did try to mention a number of points here, including the way server transfers etc. were handled.  Now I suppose I'm going to have to go back and read the post that Blue has quoted :P.

Originally posted by blueshadow

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

In response to this comment from the O.P.:

"I am not a fan of SOE, I just enjoy their game SWG, but as a company they also learn."

Tbh, I'm not conviced that they do learn.  What got them into so much trouble with things like the NGE?  Well, the list is huge, but let's focus on saying one thing and then doing the other.  We could also focus on massive changes to a live game, many of which erase player accomplishments and progress.  We could also focus on the poor quality of what was released.

Saying one thing and doing the other: You've mentioned EQ and EQ2.  SOE, Smed specifically, said that he was strongly opposed to adding RMT to those games.  Now, they do in fact have RMT, and a form of RMT that affects gameplay.  Has SOE really learned not to say one thing and do the other?

Regarding SWG, Smed first said that he would fast-track server mergers.  Instead of this, they eventually initiated the free transfer program.  Transfers are not server mergers.  Now, let's take this a step further.  At first players were told that there were no plans to close the servers that people could transfer from.  Those servers should of course still be open then right?  Wrong.  Despite saying that there were no plans to close the transfer from servers, they have now ceased to exist.

People who got excited about the quick server mergers would have been disappointed when they did not take place.  People that were told there were no plans to close their servers would now be disappointed that their servers have in fact been closed.  They'll be even more disappointed if they log in and find out that they have to pay 50 dollars to move their character off of a closed server.

Let's look at making changes to a live game that get rid of player progress and accomplishments.  SOE learned not to do this via the NGE right?  Wrong.  When they began their new GCW ranking system, all ranks previously gained were completely erased.  No conversion, at all. 

How about changing the business model of a live game?  SOE wouldn't do that would they?  Yes, they would.  SOE has added RMT loot by chance to their subscription-based game.  Was there a backlash to this change?  Of course there was.  In fact, some of the people who used to champion SWG on these boards quit over the shift to RMT.

Let's look at the quality at release of post-NGE development in SWG.  The Restuss PvP park was wrecked by a massive overspawn of storm-troopers.  The heroic instances had serious bugs and issues that did not allow players to complete them.  One of the recent special events had to be turned off and resheduled because it simply didn't work on the day it was planned. 

So, has SOE learned not to say one thing and do the other?  Have they learned not to make significant changes to their live games?  Have they learned to improve the quality of their content at release?  From the examples I've provided above, it sure doesn't seem like it to me.

This post  (Where you are OP) covers server merge (or character transfer):

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/6/view/forums/thread/256141/Transferring-off-of-a-closed-server-now-costs-50-bucks-Did-SOE-follow-through-on-this-edited-for-clarity.html

(though you heavily edited your post due to response but repeat it here).

 

 

Yes I did start a discussion on the charge to move characters off of a closed server.  I said in that thread that I think some players might be put off returning because of this fee.

I also still think that people have received mixed messages about mergers, transfers and server closures.  Mixed messages have been a real problem for SOE I think.  That's the point I'm trying to make in this thread, and this is simply one recent example imo.  I'm not sure how much they've learned from past mistakes in this regard. 

As for editing my post, some people misinterpreted me when I asked a simple question.  I took some responsibility for not being clear and attempted to use more helpful language.  Honestly, I think it's a good idea to go back and edit something if people seem to get the wrong message from it.  If people aren't hearing what I'm trying to say, sometimes I need to look at saying it differently.  They may need to check their assumptions too of course, but that's in their ballpark, not mine.

Also Blue, I think SOE has a chance to show how much they've learned in the GCW update.  Will SOE do what they said they would?  Will things actually work when released?  Will they introduce some new change in the near future that will wreck whatever good things the GCW update has introduced?

Time will tell.  I hope for the sake of current players that SOE will indeed learn from their mistakes and at least get this right.  For many of us it will be too little too late, but current players I'm sure will find it refreshing to get what they were promised in functional condition and not have the rug pulled out from under them, again.

Tbh, I wish SOE would follow this pattern for as long as the game lasts: Do what they say (after listening to what players want), release things in working condition, and not pull the rug out from under people with unexpected or unwanted revamps.