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10/14/09 6:28:03 AM#61
Originally posted by lisubab
Actually, yes, so far Democracy has been the best way to share power and nothing better has been discovered so far. Democracy keeps the rich on top of the poor? Explain Bill Clinton, who grew up poor, and Barack Obama who grew up poor, and both of them became the leaders of the most powerful nation on earth. How did the system of keeping the poor down fail if that's what Democracy does so well? All language is just words. But they have accepted definitions, and if we do not adhere to those definitions we cannot communicate. Look up every definition you want, and post it here. You will see all include a usage of the word Communism that indicates a totalitarian regime, because that is the only way Communism works. Indicating that "Communism" only means what Marx wrote is not a proper usage of the word in modern day English. Main Entry: com·mu·nism 1 a : a theory advocating elimination of private property b : a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/communism
To state something like "that's not communism, because that's not what Marx believed in" is simply ignorance of the definition of the word.
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Ponico
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/01/06
Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can? - Sun Tsu |
10/14/09 9:16:02 AM#62
This is getting into a political debate. Seriously, people needs to stop hating the chinese, koreans and any other asians now. This community is slowly turning into a racist bunch and most of you have no idea who the asians are really. I’m sorry but I don’t go around calling americans fat pigs all the time and I don’t go posting about the “new” stupidity you guys are doing these days. Communism or Demo are both systems that could work on paper but in reality none of them really work. Don't even try to pretend Democracy works lol...
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10/14/09 9:17:32 AM#63
I vote for the Philosopher King form of government. |
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10/14/09 9:19:36 AM#64
Techinically hating another country for the way it governs is not racism....now if they were specifically hating the people of the country for non-poitical reason and instead genetic or cultural issues then maybe. |
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cukimunga
 Advanced Member
Joined: 4/03/05
Ah I'm drunk and I'm in the street like a vagabond. |
10/14/09 9:26:43 AM#65
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
LOL I agree, We need to give China a little taste of their own medicine. I wonder what would happen if we stopped importing everything made in China and just made everything in the USA. I for one would be a happy camper, there is nothing more sad than looking a little plastic American flag that says Made In China. |
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10/14/09 9:37:01 AM#66
The funny thing is commies never really got along with hippies although they were both basically working towards the same goal. www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u9JAt6gFqM Representative democracy is failed, yes, although its still way better than absolutism. My bet for the future is in direct democracy, which funny enough the internet might help bring about. Virtual comunities (including MMOs) could very well find some of the solutions our world so desperately needs. So there you go, playing games might not be such a waste of time after all... Just to make things clear... |
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10/14/09 10:57:13 AM#67
Originally posted by Caleveira
One day the president may be elected by dkp. :) |
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10/14/09 12:04:41 PM#68
Originally posted by Ponico
I hate Barack Obama's policies. Why do you hate black people? I hate Communism. Why do you hate Chinese people? See how that's just fail?
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10/14/09 12:32:33 PM#69
If i had all the dollars China gives USA for "free"* just to keep up the exchange rates i would fund all those "democracy is fail" whiners here a trip to the Chinese countryside....
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10/14/09 12:41:00 PM#70
Originally posted by sacredfool
Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag? Just to make things clear... |
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10/14/09 2:45:34 PM#71
Originally posted by Caleveira
Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?
The gulag was in russia, dumbass. China actually has some beautiful country. |
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10/14/09 4:15:13 PM#72
Originally posted by billynomates If you think it's only the Chinese that are gold sellers you are deluding yourself. I think you are deluding yourself! You obviously aren't able to understand exactly what i wrote. Please try again (i even quoted it for you to save you looking back!) |
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10/14/09 4:46:45 PM#73
Originally posted by svann
The gulag was in russia, dumbass. China actually has some beautiful country.
The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people? Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind? China is a dictatorship run by criminals and murderers. Go stay in the chinese countryside if you like it so much... Edit; Not just my opinion, this is all hard facts. Just to make things clear... |
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10/14/09 10:23:46 PM#74
Originally posted by cukimunga
LOL I agree, We need to give China a little taste of their own medicine. I wonder what would happen if we stopped importing everything made in China and just made everything in the USA. I for one would be a happy camper, there is nothing more sad than looking a little plastic American flag that says Made In China.
Several things will happen First, USA will be deprived of every little thing so common in life. You know how long it takes to rebuild a manufacturing line, you know how long it takes to retrain the labor, to rebuild the infrastructure that supports factories. What you are asking is an effective worldwide economic sanction on US, imposed by US itself. Good politics. If US goes for an all out economic war, China will pull the plug on US dollars, all freebies and investment China and many countries give to US to keep it floating will dry up. Good luck using the greenbacks outside the states. Good luck using it inside the states. NO kidding. Remember the days when Mexicans do not want you to pay them in local currency, but will drop on their knees if you wave George Washington in their face? If the US dollar can buy nothing, while you need the Chinese currency to buy whatever they produce, you will smoke tobacco using greeenback but die for a Chinese dollar (RMB). Dream on. US is no longer the big country, as US dollar slides, steadily, US will sink into the status of post WW2 Britain. Once great and still proud. |
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10/14/09 10:40:09 PM#75
Originally posted by Caleveira
The gulag was in russia, dumbass. China actually has some beautiful country.
The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people? Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind? China is a dictatorship run by criminals and murderers. Go stay in the chinese countryside if you like it so much... Edit; Not just my opinion, this is all hard facts.
Your hard facts are fictions. I first visited China in 1982, started living in China on and off since 1995. Never go back to the states since Bush jr. I know what china is, I have built village schools in 5 provinces in China, taught there and live there myself. I know life in many parts in China. I live in the villages whenever I am not working. I speak 3 Chinese dialects, and understand many more. Mass genocide of girls, dream on. There were families that value male offsprings more. That is very true in the 80s. Nowaday, money talks, and girls earn on average x2 of boys. Will parent kill girls? No way. If mass genocide really happen, we should have a very unbalanced sex distribution in China. We should not be able to see girls around the towns. Look again at the outflux of kids from countryside to the industry urban. Stop dreaming, your facts are fictions. Population statistics are the facts, and those statistics cannot be manipulated these day, as hospitals, factories, social security purchases, ... are all open daily administrative records no gov't can manipulate. Forced labor? Do you know the cost of forcing labor to work against their will, the very low efficiency means its not worth the trouble. The labor camps were long gone. Come to think of it, Bush rounded up more innocent people in 8 years worldwide than China in a decade. You want to talk about Tibet? Ok how much do you know about the history of Tibet? Of the people? Have you been there? Talk to any of them? Is Tibet a unified country like you think, that every Tibetan thinks alike? Read some biased reports from CNN, a few interviews with someone dressed up like an alien, who surprisingly can be interviewed by an english speaking reporter, and suddenly you know Tibet? By the way, where is Tibet? When is tibet a country? Is it ever a country in the modern sense? For how long? How many races are there, what language they speak. What religion, culture and ethicaly inclination do they possess? Do they speak and read English? Armchair professors, got off your armchair and stop calling people "piece of ...". You know nothing you pretend to be talking about. |
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10/14/09 10:44:20 PM#76
Originally posted by Caleveira
The gulag was in russia, dumbass. China actually has some beautiful country.
The term was used in the USSR you piece of... Its now aplied in many other contexts. Its actually common in Europe to refer to Gitmo as a Gulag of sorts... And that beautiful country of yours is plagued by rampant poverty and corruption. Ask Uighurs or Tibetans if they like comunism. Or how bout the chinese government subjecting its own citizens to forced labor? Or convicts becoming organ donors against their will? Or the one child rule having become genocide against baby girls? Youre a really tough guy in the internet arent you? Wanna get into all the suffering the chinese impose on their own people? Does it bother you i live in a country where i can speak my mind?
Not at all. Does it bother you when people mention that not everything is evil in China? They have some of the most beautiful country in the world, and some of the bravest freedom fighters. I bet you never have and would never stare down a tank. Well neither would I probably, and maybe not even most chinese, but I think there are a very many serious young people working to change things there and I think we should be proud of their efforts. Trying to make out like everything is rotten in china is not helping anyone. And to be clear, I am American. And as a true American I value honor and honesty above politics. |
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10/14/09 11:19:26 PM#77
Originally posted by Swanea
I have been thinking about what you write for a day and I am at a loss what to say. China waging an economic war on US? Not likely. China is already chaging from relying on US market to trying to pop up US while slowly steering away from dependence on US. To China, US is both an anchorage and a burden, and more and more the weight of burden felt. China does not need to start a war on US, economic that is, China can simply divest to trading with Europe and the new markets. Once the US dollar ceased to be the international currency, US will be just Canada and Britain. Another smaller country. As for the culture of China, its a deep story. So much has changed in the value system of China during the last century, it is now hard to say what is Chinese culture any more. What we know that rules for thousands for year till 1900s, is severely modified, abandoned or adapted, in different ways by different brackets of the huge billion size population. As for communism to stay in place, apart from the name communist, as the ruling party, is there anything in the Chinese politics that has anything to do with communism in ideology? One party rule, despotic control (gradually laxing) and so on is nothing new. Burma has more of that than China, is Burma communist? South America, the Phillipines up to Marcos does practically the same thing as China NOW. Are they communist? |
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10/15/09 3:29:28 AM#78
@ lisubab; ok, addressing the issues you brought up; Female infanticide/sex selective abortion; Theres data from sources like EquityFeminism, but i guess they must be biased cuz, you know, theyre women. The New York Times? Nope, you probably cant believe the wacky liberal media. Nobel prize winner Amartya Sen? Cant really trust him, hes from India. UN forums like the International Conference on Population and Development? Nah, theyve got it in for China. I know, how about the Chinese Government itself? Senior government oficial Zhang Wheiqing released figures for an unbalance ratio at birth of 119 boys for every 100 girls in 2004. I think that was kinda like in the 80s... Forced Labor; The International Labor Organization, UNICEF, the BBC... This is just for sweatshops and such, not getting into the labor camps they got rid off *wink* although i could be mistaken here, i mean, not being let out of your room and sometimes even being tied to a sewing machine for 12 hr shifts is just cultural differences right? How bout miners doing similar hours in working conditions that wont let most live past 40? Those two i got from Newsweek, they did a whole issue on China. Tibet; Actually i do know Tibets geographical location and have read up on its history, you know, just to fit in on Free Tibet concerts and such... I wouldnt exactly call it a multicultural nation prior to the invasion (you know, like Brazil or India) but i dont see how that would justify Chinas anexation (yea, funny thing about international law, its called that) the fact that theyve only been brainwashing people through unimportant institutions like, say schools, probably makes it alright Tibetans are being robbed of their heritage. You want a source? How about most western governments prior to 1971 when, for some "strange" reason, they suddenly reversed their positions... Oh, but youve been to China and you live there so i guess i should take your word for it and disregard pretty much everything ive ever heard or read about it... And about those tanks, really, it kinda seems shameless and twisted youd bring up the Tiananmen students who stood up against the very government youre trying to defend. You do know many of them misteriously "disapeared" dont you? And just for the record, i was dismissing the posibility of a war between the US and China just some posts back. And dont bring Latin America into this, the only dictators weve got left are the Castros and Chavez (oh, but technically hes a socialist, not a commie) along with the coup government in Honduras... And for that poster talking about Mexicans ill have you know there was a time when the US and China would only trust Mexican pesos for trade amongst each other. This is an MMO forum, grow up. If you want to discuss politics there are more apropiate places, this thread was about Chinas policy effect on games. If youre fine with them enforcing unfair rules for competition youre welcome to your opinion. Now go throw yourself down a well... Chinas government is contemptible and petty aside from being a murderous one party dictatorship. Youre not going to change my mind about that and it really is pointless for me to argue with you. @ Svann; My argument has been against Chinese rule, not the countries beauty or the quality of its people. This thread got derailed because aparently some posters couldnt bear to have a government they admire criticized. Thats not a western attitude, and if youre gonna jump on the bandwagon of squashing dissent you really shouldnt use your nationality as a credential. Yea, im a liberal. Im happy to live in the one place in Latin America where abortion, gay marriage, personal drug use and prostitution are not against the law. Oh, and there also arent any laws to limit internet freedoms. So people saying the chinese government is good kinda rubs me the wrong way...
Just to make things clear... |
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10/15/09 6:17:36 AM#79
Originally posted by Caleveira
Why would anyone want to visit a Gulag?
My point is that maybe then they would start appreciating all the luxuries the west has. It doesn't mean chinese live in a gulag but as of now the standard of living if this neo-communist state is far from what many consider acceptable.
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