Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by Teiman

 Is just sad that there are people out here playing FPS with pads.  A control pad is NOT a good device.  Thats why these people need the games dumbed down, thats why there are soo much  autoaim,  scripted sequences ( Quick Time Events) and Third Person View games.   Since the pad is soo horrible control device, the game sould be a 20% played by the machine automatically.  On the PC the player has the 100% of the control to the character, so we can aim, shot and move exactly how and where we can.  

REAL GAMERS sould stop playing in consoles. 

 

You can stop talking now.

No, I don't. Is permate how these games are built.  The whole game is built around the pad, so even If you are able to connect a mouse, the games are still garbage. Even If you migrate these games (gears, halo) to PC, are still pure and utterly GARBAGE, the worst games to be ever created. 

Originally posted by LynxJSA

 FPS gamers don't like FPS games?

Check what the person I quoted in my post said and you will clearly see what I am talking about. But you either neglected to read my entire post or you are intentionally ignoring the quote as an excuse to nitpick what I said.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

as for the console vs pc (again if you watched the videos) they where aiming at introducing and integrate the people least likely to play eve online, the complete oposite of the gamer spectrum, the console players.

 

Well, I can still see a pretty huge flaw with that logic.

I'm a PC gamer. I used to play EVE but I don't anymore. Had Dust 514 been released on the PC and been a good game it might have gotten me to play EVE again. But since its not being released on the PC I won't be playing it or EVE ever again. So they have lost a customer. As you can see from the replies to this thread many other people feel the same way I do.

The idea that you are going to alter your product and/or business strategy to get the group of people who would be least likely to want your product in the first place is a terrible one. It doesn't work that way and you usually just end up pissing off the group of people who would want your product by doing that kind of thing. Its exactly this brand of thinking which lead SoE to release the NGE and look at how that turned out...

i would tend to dissagree there, convincing people that are least likely to play, to actually play in your universe is pretty much ADDING to your universe's fan base. when one will quote new eden, or eve, or dust they are all talking about the universe CCP created. so instead of trying to get more people to play the same style of game they chose to take the people less likely to play an MMORPG like eve and get them into the eve universe some other way (and consequently giving moneyz to CCP)

honestly, brilliant plan.

and as far as SOE releasing NGE has nothing to do with what they are doing with eve, in fact they are not touching eve, ACTUALLY !!! their kind of theme for this year's fan fest is "we see what players do and we make a game mechanic for it" so you could not be more wrong about comparing NGE and DUST. 

I for one have never had a single problem with playing a game on a console. I might actually prefer it to an extent because I am able to be more relaxed and play it on a bigger tv. I don't get this PC is the best mentality. They may have different control schemes, but they are all good in their own way. Plus you don't have to worry about compatability issues. Just think of that the next time your comp crashes because of all the viruses you got from watching your porn.

All of these PC gamers that are so high and mighty about their systems need to grow up a bit. Consoles are good formats to play games on no matter how you see the world. A skilled player with a controller would be just as good as someone with a moue with or without aim helping. And next time you consider it aimboting you really have not tried playing on consoles enough because it does require skill to aim properly.

Wait....this is console only...?!

The fuck is this console shit..?!

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

i would tend to dissagree there, convincing people that are least likely to play, to actually play in your universe is pretty much ADDING to your universe's fan base.

Yes, except you ignored the entire point of everything I said.

You can attract new customers by changing your product and/or your business strategy (the decision to release Dust on console only is a business strategy decision for the most part) but if you alienate your current or past customers in the process what have you really accomplished? Nothing. Except possibly creating a large crowd of very angry people who won't like you or your products anymore.

This is why I compare this decision to the NGE. It was never the changes to the game which was the problem with the NGE. It was the fact that SoE was more concerned with attracting a new group of customers than they were in keeping their current customers. By making Dust a console only game to attract new customers, at the cost of old customers like myself, CCP is now doing exactly the same thing.

If you have 100 customers and you change your business strategy in a way that causes you to lose those 100 customers but gain 100 new cusomters, how many customers do you have? 100 customers plus 100 angry people who will never give you another dollar as long as they live.

Originally posted by Teiman

No, I don't. Is permate how these games are built.  The whole game is built around the pad, so even If you are able to connect a mouse, the games are still garbage. Even If you migrate these games (gears, halo) to PC, are still pure and utterly GARBAGE, the worst games to be ever created. 

Yes exactly.

Mice have existed for consoles since the Dreamcast, but FPSes on consoles aren't built to utilize mice and so mice inevitably don't have the control fidelity they have on a PC.

Once someone finally wises up and puts a thumb-trackball on the default controller for a new console, we'll have the opportunity for solid FPS controls (although I'll have to learn to play with a trackball :X )  Either that or a more accurate wiimote on a serious console.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

i would tend to dissagree there, convincing people that are least likely to play, to actually play in your universe is pretty much ADDING to your universe's fan base.

Yes, except you ignored the entire point of everything I said.

You can attract new customers by changing your product and/or your business strategy (the decision to release Dust on console only is a business strategy decision for the most part) but if you alienate your current or past customers in the process what have you really accomplished? Nothing. Except possibly creating a large crowd of very angry people who won't like you or your products anymore.

This is why I compare this decision to the NGE. It was never the changes to the game which was the problem with the NGE. It was the fact that SoE was more concerned with attracting a new group of customers than they were in keeping their current customers. By making Dust a console only game to attract new customers, at the cost of old customers like myself, CCP is now doing exactly the same thing.

If you have 100 customers and you change your business strategy in a way that causes you to lose those 100 customers but gain 100 new cusomters, how many customers do you have? 100 customers plus 100 angry people who will never give you another dollar as long as they live.

Are you just being a drama whore about this?

NGE would be "Okay everyone's EVE account is cancelled and you now how Dust accounts.   Oh yeah...you might want to buy a console."

Companies make new games all the time.  Sometimes the new games are wildly different than the old games.  While it's often a good idea to specialize, it's not always the only path.

For example, I know a certain RTS company that for years improved and perfected RTS games.  Then one day they decided to "alienate" their RTS base by producing a MMORPG.  They seemed to do alright despite this decision.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

i would tend to dissagree there, convincing people that are least likely to play, to actually play in your universe is pretty much ADDING to your universe's fan base.

 

Yes, except you ignored the entire point of everything I said.

You can attract new customers by changing your product and/or your business strategy (the decision to release Dust on console only is a business strategy decision for the most part) but if you alienate your current or past customers in the process what have you really accomplished? Nothing. Except possibly creating a large crowd of very angry people who won't like you or your products anymore.

This is why I compare this decision to the NGE. It was never the changes to the game which was the problem with the NGE. It was the fact that SoE was more concerned with attracting a new group of customers than they were in keeping their current customers. By making Dust a console only game to attract new customers, at the cost of old customers like myself, CCP is now doing exactly the same thing.

If you have 100 customers and you change your business strategy in a way that causes you to lose those 100 customers but gain 100 new cusomters, how many customers do you have? 100 customers plus 100 angry people who will never give you another dollar as long as they live.

"at the cost of their old customers"?

How is Dust "at the cost of" EvE? You can hardly accuse CCP of neglecting EvE.

And if you dont even play EvE, then you're not a customer, are you?

All the tears taste so good coming from people who are just upset that CCP are doing what everyone else said was impossible.

I love CCP. :)

While its an interesting and ambitious move by CCP, I am dissapointed it wont be available on the PC.

Having tried many FPS games on my PS3 I just dont like using a control pad for FPS, mouse and keyboard is much more natural for me.

The biggest dissapointment is that I have been waiting a long time for a modern FPS/MMO and when one comes along they make it so I don't/can't play it! Very frustrating.

Originally posted by Ramistrov

While its an interesting and ambitious move by CCP, I am dissapointed it wont be available on the PC.

Having tried many FPS games on my PS3 I just dont like using a control pad for FPS, mouse and keyboard is much more natural for me.

The biggest dissapointment is that I have been waiting a long time for a modern FPS/MMO and when one comes along they make it so I don't/can't play it! Very frustrating.

I agree! But the only thing we can do is sit and wait while the current companies creating MMOs, keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, until some FPS games creator steps in and makes an MMO. Like DICE or Infinity Ward. There wont be much competition after that since companies like Turbine, Chryptic and Blizzard really dont have experience on how to make a good FPS MMO type of game, and DICE and Infinity Ward make games that no other can match in quality, graphics, gameplay and marketing.

Battlefield 3 is confirmed, and everyone knows it will be a step towards the MMO market with xp/unlocks to your soldier, etc, etc, just like in Battlefield 2142.

I belive the current MMORPG market will be split into the old companies (Blizzard, Chryptic, Turbine, etc) making kids games while the current giants (DICE, infinity Ward, Codemasters, etc) within the multiplayer FPS market will make the future MMOFPS games that will be more tailored to adults and older teens.

Just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by uttaus

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by goneglockin

You can buy a console at Toys R' Us.  It's kid stuff or it's for mouth-breathing knuckle-draggers who can't be bothered to put a gaming rig together.

What self-respecting FPS gamer wants to play on inferior hardware with their thumbs?  Count me out.

I had some stupid kid come in to geeksquad asking me about xbox 360 and when I told him I didn't have one he said i MUST have a PS3.  When I told him I didn't have one of those either he was all snotty and asked me what kind of geek I was.  My blood pressure immediately rose and I told him, a geek that has enough appreciation for performance to not bother with a platform which has hardware from before you were out of elementary school.  That shut him up.

Multi-player FPS games used to be great.  They used to be about god-like badasses utterly destroying 3 or 4 opponents near simultaneously with precision accuracy, fast run speeds and short TTKs.

Now multi-player FPS games are stop to shoot the guy who stopped to shoot somebody else and get shot by another guy who sees you stopping to shoot the guy who stopped to shoot some other guy.

Slow run speeds.  Cone of fire mechanics.  Increasing TTKs.  It's all bullshit and it's specifically designed to ensure that everyone gets a turn to kill somebody, everyone has a good time, so games have greater mass appeal and get a bigger piece of the market share.

It has about as much to do with realism as magically healing after being shot within an inch of your life.  If these games gave a shit about realism they'd offer real accuracy penalties, that through your control input, you could succeed at negating almost entirely. Such as-

Controlling muzzle rise/lateral movement during firing in place of an expanding fire pattern.  Controlling muzzle direction during running in place of an expanding fire pattern.  Nope.  Instead it's your bullets may go here or they may go there unless you slow down and put a sign on yourself that says shoot me, im busy.  Don't like it?  Then camp and aim down the sights.  Oh now we're cooking with FPS goodness!  Eliminating movement from FPS games is no different than playing a stupid flash advertisement game where you have to punch the dancing Obama to win healthcare.  Actually wait- the stupid flash game requires more player dexterity because there's no assist.

If you've never had the pleasure of killing 4 people on you at once, because you can drop each one in half a second, giving the last guy to die only 2 seconds to drop you- and you can think 3 dimensionally and plan a movement pattern in real time that dodges fire coming at you from the front and sides, while picking the order of your targets, and the game allows you the precision to hit your marks while doing all this, causing cries of h4x... then FPS gamer you are not and you will never appreciate the difference. 

Blame the consoles.

 

 

You do realise that the stop to shoot aspect was made popular by Call of Duty, a PC game right? Ofcourse you don't, because that would mean you actually stop the stereotype and look at the facts.

Then again, it seems like the only fps games you enjoy are the type where it's not actually about skill or reflexes, it's about who sees the other guy first.

 

Ok, now goneglockin is obviously an old school hardcore PC FP player. I was one too probably never as skilled, to hear his tells.

He has a lot of angst and I don't blame him, maybe it is misdirected angst maybe not. (would blame halo for slowed down play)

But your comment "Then again, it seems like the only fps games you enjoy are the type where it's not actually about skill or reflexes, it's about who sees the other guy first." doesn'tmake senes. You need see you opponent first to have an edge and upon doing so you must have hyper reactive hand eye coordination to lay out your opponents. That is true skill.
 

I remember the first time I played Halo it was like running and fighting in super slow motion. I will agree with him the FPSs of today are skilled down in my opinion from the old days. I have learned to enjoy them but they are a less skilled version of the games of yesteryear.

 

Because it isn't difficult to hit your opponent at all. In most games where people die in a short burst of fire, the movement speed is actually quite slow.

I'm not sure why you consider Halo to be super slow motion, it's running speed is about the same as an average human. Being good in Halo actually takes a lot of skill. It's one of those games that's easy to pick up and very hard to master. The good thing about Halo 3 is its matchmaking, if you're a new player you will end up with a player room with new players. You can run around shoot untill you get close and do a melee, sure, but once you get at the higher ends, being able to make no scoped headshots consistently is required to stand a chance.

Originally posted by Securion

Originally posted by Ramistrov

While its an interesting and ambitious move by CCP, I am dissapointed it wont be available on the PC.

Having tried many FPS games on my PS3 I just dont like using a control pad for FPS, mouse and keyboard is much more natural for me.

The biggest dissapointment is that I have been waiting a long time for a modern FPS/MMO and when one comes along they make it so I don't/can't play it! Very frustrating.

 

I agree! But the only thing we can do is sit and wait while the current companies creating MMOs, keep doing the same mistakes over and over again, until some FPS games creator steps in and makes an MMO. Like DICE or Infinity Ward. There wont be much competition after that since companies like Turbine, Chryptic and Blizzard really dont have experience on how to make a good FPS MMO type of game, and DICE and Infinity Ward make games that no other can match in quality, graphics, gameplay and marketing.

 

Battlefield 3 is confirmed, and everyone knows it will be a step towards the MMO market with xp/unlocks to your soldier, etc, etc, just like in Battlefield 2142.

 

I belive the current MMORPG market will be split into the old companies (Blizzard, Chryptic, Turbine, etc) making kids games while the current giants (DICE, infinity Ward, Codemasters, etc) within the multiplayer FPS market will make the future MMOFPS games that will be more tailored to adults and older teens.

Just my 2 cents.

Uh, try M.A.G.

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

i would tend to dissagree there, convincing people that are least likely to play, to actually play in your universe is pretty much ADDING to your universe's fan base.

 

Yes, except you ignored the entire point of everything I said.

You can attract new customers by changing your product and/or your business strategy (the decision to release Dust on console only is a business strategy decision for the most part) but if you alienate your current or past customers in the process what have you really accomplished? Nothing. Except possibly creating a large crowd of very angry people who won't like you or your products anymore.

This is why I compare this decision to the NGE. It was never the changes to the game which was the problem with the NGE. It was the fact that SoE was more concerned with attracting a new group of customers than they were in keeping their current customers. By making Dust a console only game to attract new customers, at the cost of old customers like myself, CCP is now doing exactly the same thing.

If you have 100 customers and you change your business strategy in a way that causes you to lose those 100 customers but gain 100 new cusomters, how many customers do you have? 100 customers plus 100 angry people who will never give you another dollar as long as they live.

i did not ignore your post, you are just making it seam that they removed you game and replaced it by something completely different. CCP did not change their product, nor did they change their business strategy. they just added a new product. would you still be mad if DUST 514 would not be in the eve universe but instead in a brand new universe they created again? they said that dust 514 would be a game of its own and will reflect eve changes. only a small portion will be integrated with the eve human players.

eve still exists as you know it, and have not stopped development on it, in fact they are going forward with everything they have said they would do.

take dust 514 as a different game by CCP

if you play mario on the nintendo will you get pissed because they release zelda?

what about blizzard. say they would release a console game that has nothing to do with their current games would you quit diablo and starcraft (and WoW) because they made a console game?

Originally posted by Malcanis

And if you dont even play EvE, then you're not a customer, are you?

I played EvE for years and liked it for the most part. Nobody plays an MMO forever and eventually I moved on from EVE.

But sometimes people come back to MMOs they have played in the past if new content is added. CCP announced Dust and I said to myself: "Hey, that sounds kind of neat. I might try that game and if its true that it will effect EVE as well then I may also go back to EVE."

But then CCP announces that Dust is going to be console only. I don't own a console so obviously I won't be playing Dust. And since I'm no longer excited about Dust I have no motivation to start paying a subscription fee for EVE again either.

Explain to me how they didn't lose a customer? I would have loved to go back to EVE if Dust had been a game I could actually enjoy but now I will never buy Dust or play EVE again. It sure seems to me like they lost a customer. And look at all the other people in this thread who are baffeled by CCP's decision to keep the game on console without a PC version. It seems they won't be buying Dust either. Do you think any of them are going to be so hyped up about this that they will run out and set up EvE accounts? I'll bet not.

Originally posted by Yuberek

 Looks awesome, kinda reminds me of Planetside.

great another tabula rasa

Originally posted by Squal'Zell

CCP did not change their product, nor did they change their business strategy. they just added a new product.

Stop being a nitpick. CCP isn't Nintendo and you know full well that everything I have said was based on YOUR ORIGINAL STATEMENT:

"as for the console vs pc (again if you watched the videos) they where aiming at introducing and integrate the people least likely to play eve online, the complete oposite of the gamer spectrum, the console players." <link>

So quit dancing around the issue and admit that those are your words.

If CCP wants new cusomters who play console games, fine. I can't complain about that.

HOWEVER, the problem is when they make the decision to keep Dust as a CONSOLE ONLY game, which as you can see from the replies to this thread is not a decision that their current PC cusomters are happy about.

So let me put it to you like this: PC gamers want to play Dust but can't because CCP apparently doesn't want their business or doesn't believe they have anything to gain by offering new content to existing PC customers. Meanwhile CCP is marketing Dust to console players instead under the assumption that this move will get console players interested in EVE (this is according to your own statement).

Now do you honestly believe that CCP will be able to convince enough members of a section of the gamer population who believe Halo is the pinnacle of game design to play a deep and complex game like EvE to make up for all the PC customers who have lost interest in them and their games as a result of this decision? Because I seriously doubt it.

I don't really understand why they won't release it on the PC. Wth happend with the PC as a gaming platform? Do they really fear to be pirated out of they're money or what? Thats pretty much impossible on a MMO, expect for private servers. It's like a slap to the face, poor EvE fans.