Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by BMFahrtz

Originally posted by ValiumSummer

The only thing that hasn't changed since 2004 is the mind numbing rants about the state of MMO's.

+1

 Wow people are starting to catch on...now if only all this ranting was directed at those silly MMO devs that think they know what they're doing instead of each other...=(

The MMO devs are doing each other?

Well, that explains it. Only virgins can make decent MMOs.

lol i doubt they would even go as low as to touch themselves...

I think once these 1/2 retards who were gimps in every mmo they played get eplaced we can get something going again....

at this point i dont care if it was a br team making something worth playing

Originally posted by hayes303

Why are these "MMORPGs have went no where" threads always originate with SWG vets (or as I call them, bitter ex-fans)?

Hell hath no fury like a star wars nerd scorned...

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by hayes303

Why are these "MMORPGs have went no where" threads always originate with SWG vets (or as I call them, bitter ex-fans)?

 

Hell hath no fury like a star wars nerd scorned...

 

Wait till TOR hits the internet will explode with rage. You heard it here first.

Originally posted by parrotpholk

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by hayes303

Why are these "MMORPGs have went no where" threads always originate with SWG vets (or as I call them, bitter ex-fans)?

 

Hell hath no fury like a star wars nerd scorned...

 

Wait till TOR hits the internet will explode with rage. You heard it here first.

Take it back! Take it back!  I don't know whats worse.  Hordes of Star Wars nerds all gunning for their next saber crystal, or the dude that gave the last ToR interview who had on a fucking t-shirt shaded to look like a jedi robe.....

The OP is right.  Hopefully TOR or FF14 does us good.

Originally posted by skoreanime

Originally posted by Zhqrxt

I actually feelt the exact same thing. Playing Aion atm, and ok, its a decent hack n slash kinda thing.  But im starting to get bored. Combat have actually become more doll. Maybe it was stupid rolling a spellcaster> i dont even have the occasionel critical strikes to break the monotony. Basicly, killing mobs is more boring then ever and yet it dominate the game.

What happened with the good direction Funcom tryed to take combat?

 This is why I'm excited about FF XIV.

- No auto attack.  Every action is decided by you.

- Skills and abilities for both the left and right hand of you character.  Not exactly sure what they mean here, as they didn't go into specifics, but it's probably skills and abilities being restricted to main and off hands.

- There also seems to be a "accuracy/power" type bar for you actions.  From what I've read, the more power you want to put into your attacks, the less accurate you'll be and vice versa.  Some kinda energy/stamina stat is also supposed to be tied in. 

- They, as in the S-E team working on XIV, seem to be hinting that fighting multiple monsters will be the norm.

 So basically...XIV combat sounds much more immersive then XI's.  Which is great, because that's the only major thing I had against XI.

Zhqrxt: I was trying to say that as far as combat goes, Aion's actually does have some variance per fight.  This is good.  If the game's other significant shortcomings hadn't screwed it (excessive grind, terrible camera, and dubious PVP mechanics), I think I would've enjoyed Aion.

Skoreanime: Sounds like some good first steps for FF14's combat system.  Although offhand attacks aren't new, they're a pretty solid mechanic.  As someone who likes strongly-presented combat decisions, removing autoattack is typically good...although WOW often turns it into a timed trigger for a lot of abilities that cause reactive states to emerge, and that works pretty well.

A power/accuracy slider sounds pretty susceptible to a single "optimal" setting, which defeats the point of it being a game mechanic. 

Multi-mob fights is something the genre really needs to latch onto if it's going to stay with the same general fighting system.  The balance between single and multi-target attacks tends to feel a lot more logical than most of the combat mechanics found in these games.  Plus fighting multiple mobs is heroic.

Originally posted by Varny

The last good mmorpg released was WoW...

You already lost me.

Originally posted by ValiumSummer

The only thing that hasn't changed since 2004 is the mind numbing rants about the state of MMO's.

Amen to this.

Originally posted by Mithios

Originally posted by Varny

The last good mmorpg released was WoW...

You already lost me.

agree, it was crap on release...

Alot of those so called crappy games cost between 30 to 100 million to make. 

I dont' see game company want to make an attempt to loss more money.

Axhilt Darkfall is adding more PvE content to increase the appeal to players who like both.  They are not, however, intending to add a PvE only area.  The underlying concept is to give players strong incentives to go out in the world and become vulnerable to PvP.  That helps to drive the endgame PvP forward, which is based around holding destroyable and capturable towns and cities, which have real resource consequences to hold or lose.

If Darkfall added instanced dungeons, then yes, that would be entirely at odds with their game concept and well, stupid.  But they almost certainly won't.  A better new player experience so that people can work out how to equip their leafblade without getting ganked might well be added, however that would not in any way negatively impact on the game design.

---

Originally posted by ValiumSummer
The only thing that hasn't changed since 2004 is the mind numbing rants about the state of MMO's.

---

Also the mantra that all games proceeding WoW are all WoW clones. Its absurd to think WoW is the measure off all things MMO.

Originally posted by Flute

Axhilt Darkfall is adding more PvE content to increase the appeal to players who like both.  They are not, however, intending to add a PvE only area.  The underlying concept is to give players strong incentives to go out in the world and become vulnerable to PvP.  That helps to drive the endgame PvP forward, which is based around holding destroyable and capturable towns and cities, which have real resource consequences to hold or lose.

If Darkfall added instanced dungeons, then yes, that would be entirely at odds with their game concept and well, stupid.  But they almost certainly won't.  A better new player experience so that people can work out how to equip their leafblade without getting ganked might well be added, however that would not in any way negatively impact on the game design.

That just seems like a very poor approach to a PVP game.  Planetside survived with no PVE whatsoever.

In Planetside nobody worried about whether there were people "out in the world vulnerable to PVP".  You were either in your capital (a safe zone) or you were out conquering bases.  If you were logged into the game, you were out there!

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

Originally posted by Jackio81

Originally posted by BMFahrtz

Originally posted by ValiumSummer

The only thing that hasn't changed since 2004 is the mind numbing rants about the state of MMO's.

+1

 Wow people are starting to catch on...now if only all this ranting was directed at those silly MMO devs that think they know what they're doing instead of each other...=(

The MMO devs are doing each other?

Well, that explains it. Only virgins can make decent MMOs.

LOL.

Nice catch there...=P

I think people are just tired of the samo, since most of what's new were done between 1999-2004.  Also a lot of people were gunho about 3D massive online games back in the days, because it was new, cool, and fresh.  But now many people are simply tired of the genre.  It's not that game companies aren't doing releasing a bunch of games, they are.  It's simply because some people don't know when they are tired of MMO's and should stop playing them.

There are plenty of good games out there still.  I just think some people expect just a weee bit too much out of the genre.

Originally posted by Mardy

I think people are just tired of the samo, since most of what's new were done between 1999-2004.  Also a lot of people were gunho about 3D massive online games back in the days, because it was new, cool, and fresh.  But now many people are simply tired of the genre.  It's not that game companies aren't doing releasing a bunch of games, they are.  It's simply because some people don't know when they are tired of MMO's and should stop playing them.

 

There are plenty of good games out there still.  I just think some people expect just a weee bit too much out of the genre.

The problem is not the genre. The problem is the companies (big titles) releasing the same game with different skin over and over again.

The MMO genre can be anything, and it has pretty much infinite potential, but we've barely seen developers and publishers touch on that potential because right now they're too busy trying to emulate the cashcows to try and make big money instead of trying to create genuine, well crafted gaming experiences and art.

So true, the genre has taken a step backward with games such like Aion and Champions Online. Rehashed games with a pricetag on it and fees to boot! Today it is more about making money than it is making great mmos.

Originally posted by Zzulu 

The problem is not the genre. The problem is the companies (big titles) releasing the same game with different skin over and over again.

The MMO genre can be anything, and it has pretty much infinite potential, but we've barely seen developers and publishers touch on that potential because right now they're too busy trying to emulate the cashcows to try and make big money instead of trying to create genuine, well crafted gaming experiences and art.

But games released after 2004 have done new things.  AoC offered some new things we didn't see before, WAR came up with the public quest idea.  The thing is companies have been trying new things, but the problem is us players not buying into it.

Ask yourselves this, including OP.  Everybody here, myself included, have been hailing the great MMO period of 1999-2004.  All these older, classic games were all great and wonderful.  Now are we looking for the samo or are we looking for something new?  Some of the newer games have been doing the new things, but I think people actually would prefer the samo, or things that they are more used to.

So what's a gaming company supposed to do?  Give us something new and chance at failing hardcore, like WAR did?  Or try to rehash and play safe?  We've all criticized WAR for not being DAOC enough, and not WoW enough, that it failed because it tried to be a cross between DAOC & WoW.  So in essence we told Mythic, hey either release a DAOC or WoW, not something different, not a cross of the two.

So when you say games are released with a different skin, I say they do it because players want it that way.  Just read the MMO forums on the internet, it's full of people wanting an AC3, DAOC 2, EQ3, SWG2, UO2, etc etc...

Originally posted by Mardy

Originally posted by Zzulu 

The problem is not the genre. The problem is the companies (big titles) releasing the same game with different skin over and over again.

The MMO genre can be anything, and it has pretty much infinite potential, but we've barely seen developers and publishers touch on that potential because right now they're too busy trying to emulate the cashcows to try and make big money instead of trying to create genuine, well crafted gaming experiences and art.

 

But games released after 2004 have done new things.  AoC offered some new things we didn't see before, WAR came up with the public quest idea.  The thing is companies have been trying new things, but the problem is us players not buying into it.

 

Ask yourselves this, including OP.  Everybody here, myself included, have been hailing the great MMO period of 1999-2004.  All these older, classic games were all great and wonderful.  Now are we looking for the samo or are we looking for something new?  Some of the newer games have been doing the new things, but I think people actually would prefer the samo, or things that they are more used to.

 

So what's a gaming company supposed to do?  Give us something new and chance at failing hardcore, like WAR did?  Or try to rehash and play safe?  We've all criticized WAR for not being DAOC enough, and not WoW enough, that it failed because it tried to be a cross between DAOC & WoW.  So in essence we told Mythic, hey either release a DAOC or WoW, not something different, not a cross of the two.

 

So when you say games are released with a different skin, I say they do it because players want it that way.  Just read the MMO forums on the internet, it's full of people wanting an AC3, DAOC 2, EQ3, SWG2, UO2, etc etc...

The fact that you think "public quests" is even worth mentioning as a new form of MMO innovation says a lot. A public quest is just a regular group quest but repeated over and over, infinitely. To think that PQ's is one of the most revolutionary ideas to be introduced to the MMO genre as of late is just god damn sad. It literally highlights just how devoid of fantasy the modern MMO genre is.

AoC was pretty much a standard MMO but with a special (melee) combat system, - a flawed system, by the way, which they reduced and changed over and over again and today it's really not much different from regular MMO's, at all.

Both WAR and AoC were archaic in their design and implementation, and buggy and badly constructed to boot. They're not good examples of anything, especially innovation.

Originally posted by Zzulu 

The fact that you think "public quests" is even worth mentioning as a new form of MMO innovation says a lot. A public quest is just a regular group quest but repeated over and over, infinitely. To think that PQ's is one of the most revolutionary ideas to be introduced to the MMO genre as of late is just god damn sad. It literally highlights just how devoid of fantasy the modern MMO genre is.

 

AoC was pretty much a standard MMO but with a special (melee) combat system, - a flawed system, by the way, which they reduced and changed over and over again and today it's really not much different from regular MMO's, at all.

 

Both WAR and AoC were archaic in their design and implementation, and buggy and badly constructed to boot. They're not good examples of anything, especially innovation.

Just because new features are embedded in a badly designed game, don't mean they aren't features worth mentioning. PQ's were fun, more fun than your average quests...and remember players did ask for better than your standard questing.  Except WAR over-used them and didn't implement them properly for the endgame gameplay.

AoC's combat system may be flawed and may have been changed many times, but that's what you got to do when you try something new. Nobody here can say a MMO coming out with something new doesn't ever go back to re-tweak them. In a MMO, it's all about tweaking, re-tweaking, and improving on features. Heck even Vanguard tried some new things, but good things were burried under a horrible launch.

I just don't think people here really know what they want. Anytime someone comes out with a list of features they want in a MMO, 5 others come in and disagree with the implementation.  If SOE was to release a true EQ1 sequel, many people here would cry foul and say they're just rehashing the samo.  But yet tons of people would love to see an EQ1 sequel.  So what exactly do game developers have to judge on? They judge on what people play and what games can retain customers.