Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Ofcourse and they will think of every way to discredit someone just because I don't drink the same kool-aid their drinking. I'm  still waiting to hear about all these major mmo success stories after WoW.

 

Maybe you can enlighten us all with your definition of a major mmo success so that we can all be on the same page.

My first mmo was FFXI. I enjoyed it immensely. It appealed to the masses, awesome community and it was unique from everyone else's mmo. I think FFXI is the perfect model of what a mmo should be. WoW had success because Blizzard made 3 great games before WOW and build a huge fanbase before giving us their take on what a mmo should be. We have not progressed since the days of FFXI or WoW. Today everything is aboput making a mmo a theme park and slapping monthly fee and rmt model on it. The days of actually making a great mmo and giving it the love a game deserves has been lost. Sorry, I just don't look through those rose colored glasses just because developers want to make money and build hype.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Ofcourse and they will think of every way to discredit someone just because I don't drink the same kool-aid their drinking. I'm  still waiting to hear about all these major mmo success stories after WoW.

 

Maybe you can enlighten us all with your definition of a major mmo success so that we can all be on the same page.

 

My first mmo was FFXI. I enjoyed it immensely. It appealed to the masses, awesome community and it was unique from everyone else's mmo. I think FFXI is the perfect model of what a mmo should be. WoW had success because Blizzard made 3 great games before WOW and build a huge fanbase before giving us their take on what a mmo should be. We have not progressed since the days of FFXI or WoW. Today everything is aboput making a mmo a theme park and slapping monthly fee and rmt model on it. The days of actually making a great mmo and giving it the love a game deserves has been lost. Sorry, I just don't look through those rose colored glasses just because developers want to make money and build hype.

I don't think WoWs success has very much to do with the Wacraft RTS (not even the same genre) Starcraft or Diablo. If that was the case wouldn't FFXI have been more appealing considering all the FF games released over the years, and the millions of fans it has created.

MMOs that are out now don't appeal to me, but that doesn't make them failures.

Duno maby just me i play MMOs for what they are not for what they are not. So it's hard for a mmo to "fail" for me

maby not my cup of tea but not a "fail"

WoW was the right product at the right time. I was in the US launch and neither AoC or WAR comes close to the disaster that was. BUT! Many stuck with, and they brought plenty more. People lack originality and hate change, and those are the two major reasons WoW is such a success. WoW is like the polariod camera; A great invention, but will have a quick death once eclipsed.

"Fallen Earth isn't that bad but I just don't see it being that kind of mmo where people are getting that excited about it."

I beg to differ!

*excitement he has it*

No other mountains are as tall as Mt Everest. Therefore all other mountains 'fail'!

Originally posted by Ilvaldyr

I don't accept mediocrity.

It's why I still play WoW.

Some reason, you have me completely confused.

Originally posted by metalhead980

I feel the time for the big time mass appeal MMO are over.

We will have nothing but small niche focused mmos from now on and honestly I think its for the best.

We don;t need another WoW that turns the genre into a bunch of clones that want a piece of Blizzards pie.

Small companies making good games for around 50-500k players is just fine.

Agreed. The more niche games there are, the greater the chance that we each will find a game that truly appeals to us.

Originally posted by Arglebargle

No other mountains are as tall as Mt Everest. Therefore all other mountains 'fail'!

WoW isn't surrounded by the rest of the Himalayas.

"Hi! I'm driving a Toyota Corolla. It's the most sold car of the last 30 years, and therefore the best car. All other cars fail."  

At least they are making games.

Personally I have alot of fun in those fail game you named... for a couple of month.

Originally posted by Aercus

"Hi! I'm driving a Toyota Corolla. It's the most sold car of the last 30 years, and therefore the best car. All other cars fail."  

Uh, well, all things considered - The Corolla might well BE the best car in the last 30 years.

I agree that it doesn't mean all other cars fail, though.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Aercus

"Hi! I'm driving a Toyota Corolla. It's the most sold car of the last 30 years, and therefore the best car. All other cars fail."  

Uh, well, all things considered - The Corolla might well BE the best car in the last 30 years.

I agree that it doesn't mean all other cars fail, though.

That is exactly the point. It's the most selling car, therefore hugely successful. Is it the best car? No.

McDonalds is the most sucessful chain of restaurants. Is it the best food? No.

HP sells the most PC's. Does HP have the best PC's? No.

More energy is produced by coal than by wind mills. Is coal the best form of energy? No.

I know, seperating quantity from quality is a difficult thing, but please don't confuse the two. We all know Wow is, by far, the most selling MMO in history. Is it the best MMO?

Originally posted by Aercus

 

That is exactly the point. It's the most selling car, therefore hugely successful. Is it the best car? No.

Yes. That's MY point.

McDonalds is the most sucessful chain of restaurants. Is it the best food? No.

Debatable. I hate McDonald's, but millions love it. For a variety of reasons.

HP sells the most PC's. Does HP have the best PC's? No.

More energy is produced by coal than by wind mills. Is coal the best form of energy? No.

You're really getting off track with this one. Best in what way?

I know, seperating quantity from quality is a difficult thing, but please don't confuse the two. We all know Wow is, by far, the most selling MMO in history. Is it the best MMO?

Yes. Not for me, personally, but yeah. All things considered, it is.

aion is a huge failure

Originally posted by rr2real

aion is a huge failure

Yup, 400k preorders in the US, and who knows how many players in asia, definitely points to failure. lol

The biggest problem with most of todays MMOs is community IMO. People do not stick around games long enough to form them for starters. Everyone races to end game and sets sail for the next grind, like playing single player games. Completely ignoring what makes these games unique "community building". This is why EVE steadily grows and grows they force you into community building so to speak.

I know what you are going to say, "but, all the games out now suck". Yeah they do if you ignore the fact that they are multi-player games. You (random troll) flame people day in and day out with "how can you like that game" How do you play it!?!?!". Is it perhaps because the average user who sticks with a game, meets people and forms bonds with them? That imo is where most so called "fanbois" come from ( their perspective anyway). They have embedded themselves within a games community. To them that is the game, insult it (the game) you may be unknowingly insulting all their friends as well.

just my 2 cents..

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Aercus

 

That is exactly the point. It's the most selling car, therefore hugely successful. Is it the best car? No.

Yes. That's MY point.

McDonalds is the most sucessful chain of restaurants. Is it the best food? No.

Debatable. I hate McDonald's, but millions love it. For a variety of reasons.

HP sells the most PC's. Does HP have the best PC's? No.

More energy is produced by coal than by wind mills. Is coal the best form of energy? No.

You're really getting off track with this one. Best in what way?

I know, seperating quantity from quality is a difficult thing, but please don't confuse the two. We all know Wow is, by far, the most selling MMO in history. Is it the best MMO?

Yes. Not for me, personally, but yeah. All things considered, it is.

So, Danielle Steele and John Grisham are the greatest Authors in history, right?  Well, they sold the most books, so it must be!

Or, do they write for the greatest common denominator, pleasing the ignorant masses.

You decide. 

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Yup, not since the success of WOW has there been a MMO who has captured the hearts and excitement of the players. We been saturated with mediocrate which translates into major fail. In 2007 we had Lotro. Lotro won best MMO that year only because nothing else was out and Turbine took advantge of that. It was a false hope with just average gameplay and a boring world to play in. In 2008 we had the most epic fail year of all time, both AOC and Warhammer flopped big time. So much hope, so much hype and it all went down the tubes in a hurry.

Smaller mmos such as Champions Online and Fallen Earth tried to revive some mmo success but I'm afraid those just didn't quite cut the mustard either. Cryptic botched it up big time when they introduced their first patch and it hasn't been the same since, not to mention the microtransactions+monthly fees isn't exactly appealing either. Fallen Earth isn't that bad but I just don't see it being that kind of mmo where people are getting that excited about it. Then there was Aion. Now Aion has soome good points to it like the polish and beautifult world to play in but NCsoft forgot to make it interesting and fun to play not to mention it just copied what others had done before and just made it look prettier.The amount of gold farmers and bots in this game is horrendous despite the latest massive bans they been doing, its still infested. Server queue problems and too much lag for players is a major issue. It baffles me how NCsoft can get the Asian releases (which has over 2 mill players) correct but not the NA/EU players which has around 400k players. Yup, I'm still pondering that as we speak.

There might be some hope to the mmo genre eventually but I'm afraid the wait is way too long before we see that mmo success again. The MMO "Fail-Train" keeps rolling as mmo players desperately spend their money in order to keep hope alive.
 

Completely true. Also See signature. Good point dude.

Originally posted by madeux

So, Danielle Steele and John Grisham are the greatest Authors in history, right?  Well, they sold the most books, so it must be!

Or, do they write for the greatest common denominator, pleasing the ignorant masses.

You decide. 

Well, Corollas and WoW work. That means a lot, when the competitors are Kia, Ford, AoC, and Warhammer.

Aside from actually functioning properly, there is no objective standard to rate such things other than popularity.

Who is to say who the best writers are - millions of readers, or a few literary critics?

Compared to WoW, most MMOs would be short stories with missing chapters and tons of typoes, which take a third edition to finally be readable.